UCSF Professor of Pediatrics on Sugar
Replies
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This came from a pediatrician? :noway:
Not a pediatrician -- a professor of pediatrics. Huge difference.0 -
As was said earlier by a different poster, these data come from animals fed pure fructose in huge amounts.
There is nothing we eat that is pure fructose. Even an apple has glucose and other sugars in it. An orange has a similar sugar make up to HFCS 55 (about 55% fructose, 45% glucose).
So, unless you are pounding downs lbs of pure fructose, what he is talking about is irrelevant.
btw - It is Lustig. He is a reputable, published professor of pediatrics, and he is right to be worried about the obesity epidemic. He's just not quite with it on this particular topic.
I'm at the end of the talk, and I am starting to think the point he is hitting the best is that the sugary drinks are basically a recipe for disaster, not that sugar and fruit are evil.
He is pretty spot on with his physiology understanding and metabolism depictions, which is important to me.0 -
Also, fruit isn't pure fructose.
Fructose
Chemical Compound
Fructose, or fruit sugar, is a simple monosaccharide found in many plants, where it is often bonded to glucose to form the disaccharide sucrose. Wikipedia
Formula: C6H12O6
IUPAC ID: Fructose
Molar mass: 180.16 g/mol
Melting point: 217.4°F (103°C)
Density: 1.69 g/cm³
Soluble in: Water
really?
Really really. Fruit also contains water and fiber.
[/quote]
So now water and fiber cause obesity?0 -
7ish minutes in.. "If obesity is about choice, please explain the epidemic of obese 6 month olds."
Babies are lazy. They just sit around. No wonder they're such fatasses.0 -
An apple has about 12 grams of sugar, so I don't believe that people used to only get 15g.
It could be the type of apples available now through man's manipulation. Wild apples are generally smaller and much more sour than commercial apples.
My thinking too- generally, fruits have been selectively bred over the years to be sweeter, same with things like corn. We don't have that blue corn anymore, it tastes like a**. Now sweet corn..0 -
7ish minutes in.. "If obesity is about choice, please explain the epidemic of obese 6 month olds."
I figure it's still about choice.....in this case the choice of the parents. I have seen parents giving babies ( not toddlers, but children a few month old ) coke in a baby bottle....and not only here in Mexico.
I also know parents who give their four and five year olds a whole bottle of formula after three meals and snacks, because the children go to sleep " without fuss " when drinking formula .0 -
Also, fruit isn't pure fructose.
Fructose
Chemical Compound
Fructose, or fruit sugar, is a simple monosaccharide found in many plants, where it is often bonded to glucose to form the disaccharide sucrose. Wikipedia
Formula: C6H12O6
IUPAC ID: Fructose
Molar mass: 180.16 g/mol
Melting point: 217.4°F (103°C)
Density: 1.69 g/cm³
Soluble in: Water
really?
Really really. Fruit also contains water and fiber.
So now water and fiber cause obesity?
[/quote]
No longer interested in this argument. I'm looking for comments related to the content I linked. This does not fall under that category.
Edited because apparently I suck at nested quotes.0 -
I still dont quite understand it or how it will effect labeling or products, but the EU has recently come out in favor for the use of fructose sweetener.
I do support the removal of sugary/calorie rich drinks though especially if the child is obese.0 -
Good grief.
The obesity epidemic of modern times is caused by one basic underlying factor -
Our caloric balance is no longer self-governing. We no longer have to invest 1,000 Calories to get a 1,500 calorie meal.
For a while we got away with it, because for the most part even though energy expenditure wasn't required, financial expenditure was. Obesity was still financially out of reach for most. But the advent of cheap food (which yes, I will accept was made possible in part by HFCS) removed that governor too.
Sure other things play a part - sweet things are tasty so we want to eat more, stress, limited time to prep food, etc.... But the reality is that if we can get past the self-balancing energy equation and to a position where we know how to balance it ourselves, you can beat obesity no matter what foods you choose to consume. Just look at the successful people on MFP, and the wide range of diets they enjoy.
In short, as I see it there are three phases to governing the energy-balance
1. Availability - the necessity of hunting and gathering greatly reduces net caloric intake.
2. Financial - although food is readily available, it's still too expensive to eat sufficiently to become obese.
3. Intellectual - now food is available and affordable, the individual must choose to voluntarily limit their intake and match it to their expenditure.
As a society, with the dawn of the 'quantified self' we are in the process of shifting from stage 2 to stage 3.
Any negative impacts that may or may not be caused by any particular food or nutrient, pales into insignificance in comparison.0 -
No longer interested in this argument. I'm looking for comments related to the content I linked. This does not fall under that category.
Tough noogies. You posted a controversial subject in a public forum. You'll get the comments, like it or not.0 -
Maybe it's just me, but I always thought the obesity epidemic was because people like to stuff their faces.
I'm surprised I haven't seen an argument on here about how the prevalence of desk jobs in America causes people to be overweight.
ETA: Stumblinthroughlife beat me to it. :drinker:0 -
22 minutes in: "Before the advent of food processing, sugars available from fruits and vegetables afforded us about 15g of sugar per day."
The yogurt I had last night had 15g of sugar in it.. which may explain why I immediately wanted to run back to the fridge and eat 5 more :-)
We are having a big government campaign here in Mexico right now to warn people of the dangers of too much sugar. After several studies that lasted a total of five years ( and in which my employer the WHO was involved ) it was discovered that on average each Mexican ingests 68 teaspoons of sugar each day through coke type drinks alone. The US is right behind us...lol.
The amputation of limbs from diabetics has increased by 4300 % in the last 25 years ( this means that during past times a handful of people were amputated each years, now they are 1000s) and the extra health care cost for the government because of diabetes is a hundred times what it was ten years ago.
I completely agree that as far as weight loss is concerned the same principles that apply to all foods and the calorie in-calorie out rule applies also to sugar, but since not all people are on a weight loss diet many ingest about 50-100 times as much sugar as just 50 years ago, become obese and put their health and life at risk.
I personally avoid sugars because I have a auto immune disease. I also only eat 1200 calories because I am older and barely five feet tall. Since I don't eat sugar and processed foods I can make it so each calorie nutritionally really counts, which I don't think would be the case if I would eat a lot of sugar in all it's forms.. Luckily I also do not have a sweet tooth, otherwise I probably would be doomed.....but even then I would not brag about my sugar intake as so many here do.
ETA: I should have made it clear in my post that I avoid " added " sugar, but I still eat fruit and vegetables .0 -
If this is LOLstig I'm going to be upset. :mad:0
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An apple has about 12 grams of sugar, so I don't believe that people used to only get 15g.
I kind of can, remembering the stories of my grand father who always told me about the apple and orange they got as Christmas presents. He was born in 1885 and even when I was a child in the 50's we only ate the fruit that was available in summer from out trees and then it was about six month or more nothing.
Or maybe they meant 15grs of " added " sugar.0 -
If this is LOLstig I'm going to be upset. :mad:
Oh it is...0 -
Also, fruit isn't pure fructose.
Fructose
Chemical Compound
Fructose, or fruit sugar, is a simple monosaccharide found in many plants, where it is often bonded to glucose to form the disaccharide sucrose. Wikipedia
Formula: C6H12O6
IUPAC ID: Fructose
Molar mass: 180.16 g/mol
Melting point: 217.4°F (103°C)
Density: 1.69 g/cm³
Soluble in: Water
really?
Really really. Fruit also contains water and fiber.
So now water and fiber cause obesity?
No longer interested in this argument. I'm looking for comments related to the content I linked. This does not fall under that category.
Edited because apparently I suck at nested quotes.
[/quote]
I'm not arguing, I was just pointing out that fructose is a simple sugar; which by definition does not break down to anything other than itself. Based on my own experience, enjoying fruit all day from breakfast to dinner has not made me obese; it has actually done the exact opposite. Also, like other's have said this is a public forum and when you start another thread about how something else is to blame other than peoples complete lack of self control some may want to challenge the "science" behind the claim. But what do I know... I only decreased my A1C from 14% to 4% in under a year, was taken off diabetic meds and lost 150 pounds while eating more sugar then ever before.0 -
So, unless you are pounding downs lbs of pure fructose, what he is talking about is irrelevant.
People always fail with context and dosage.
Also OP...did you really need a lengthy lecture to tell you that it's probably not a good idea to drink crap tons of soda? I thought that was pretty common knowledge. I used to drink about 4-6 sodas per day...it added a good 600 - 900 calories per day to my diet...that's why I was obese, not the fructose in and of itself. Context and dosage are very important.0 -
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No longer interested in this argument. I'm looking for comments related to the content I linked. This does not fall under that category.
Tough noogies. You posted a controversial subject in a public forum. You'll get the comments, like it or not.
Taken out of context. The poster was flame-baiting with the statement 'Oh, so now water and fiber cause obesity?'
I'm not interested in THAT.
I am, however, interested in polite discussion of the linked content. Not rants and rampages of what may or may not be the root our country's obesity epidemic.
However, I do recognize the scarcity of people willing to have polite, thoughtful discussion on the topic. And in that case, i can just be satisfied with knowing that a few people took the time to educate themselves and move along in life.
To everyone who came here to LOL and flamebait and yell ZOMG TIN HATS, have fun. The message is out and it will most likely be a blessing to someone somewhere, which was my intent.0 -
22 minutes in: "Before the advent of food processing, sugars available from fruits and vegetables afforded us about 15g of sugar per day."
The yogurt I had last night had 15g of sugar in it.. which may explain why I immediately wanted to run back to the fridge and eat 5 more :-)
My yogurt also had 15 g of sugar in it. But my banana, apple, and kiwi I had today have over 40 g of sugar in it. So I am not sure where the 15 g of sugar per day before food processing is realistic!0 -
Taken out of context. The poster was flame-baiting with the statement 'Oh, so now water and fiber cause obesity?'
I'm not interested in THAT.
I am, however, interested in polite discussion of the linked content. Not rants and rampages of what may or may not be the root our country's obesity epidemic.
However, I do recognize the scarcity of people willing to have polite, thoughtful discussion on the topic. And in that case, i can just be satisfied with knowing that a few people took the time to educate themselves and move along in life.
To everyone who came here to LOL and flamebait and yell ZOMG TIN HATS, have fun. The message is out and it will most likely be a blessing to someone somewhere, which was my intent.
But you are saying you are only interested in people who took the time to educate themselves according to what you believe to be correct. I have educated myself. I'm very well educated, thank you. I just happen to disagree with you.0 -
So, unless you are pounding downs lbs of pure fructose, what he is talking about is irrelevant.
People always fail with context and dosage.
Also OP...did you really need a lengthy lecture to tell you that it's probably not a good idea to drink crap tons of soda? I thought that was pretty common knowledge. I used to drink about 4-6 sodas per day...it added a good 600 - 900 calories per day to my diet...that's why I was obese, not the fructose in and of itself. Context and dosage are very important.
I enjoyed the nerdy metabolism break-down slides, actually. Bring on the adipose deposition pathways and grehlin/leptin release triggers, haha.0 -
I'm sad, OP. We will never be friends because according to your page you can't be friends with people who enjoy filling their diaries with Fun Dip...
I eat Fun Dip on a regular basis!! LOVE IT!!!0 -
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No longer interested in this argument. I'm looking for comments related to the content I linked. This does not fall under that category.
Tough noogies. You posted a controversial subject in a public forum. You'll get the comments, like it or not.
Taken out of context. The poster was flame-baiting with the statement 'Oh, so now water and fiber cause obesity?'
I'm not interested in THAT.
I am, however, interested in polite discussion of the linked content. Not rants and rampages of what may or may not be the root our country's obesity epidemic.
However, I do recognize the scarcity of people willing to have polite, thoughtful discussion on the topic. And in that case, i can just be satisfied with knowing that a few people took the time to educate themselves and move along in life.
To everyone who came here to LOL and flamebait and yell ZOMG TIN HATS, have fun. The message is out and it will most likely be a blessing to someone somewhere, which was my intent.
There have been several people who politely stated their opinion. You just do not seem to want dissenting opinions.
Like the people saying that a single piece of fruit can have ~15g of sugar.
In my opinion, the link is disingenuous because it is trying to place blame on one single nutrient/food as the cause of obesity. Similar to those who blame fats. Or grains. Or artificial sweeteners.0 -
1hr 10 mins in: the guy's recommendations for the obese kids he treats in his clinic:
Get rid of all sugared liquids- only water and milk
Eat your carbohydrate with fiber
Wait 20 minutes for second portions
Buy your screen time minute-for-minutes with physical activity
I'm likin it.
SO I guess he wouldn't like that my mom fed me Dr. Pepper from my bottle when I was a baby....not even joking!0 -
Taken out of context. The poster was flame-baiting with the statement 'Oh, so now water and fiber cause obesity?'
I'm not interested in THAT.
I am, however, interested in polite discussion of the linked content. Not rants and rampages of what may or may not be the root our country's obesity epidemic.
However, I do recognize the scarcity of people willing to have polite, thoughtful discussion on the topic. And in that case, i can just be satisfied with knowing that a few people took the time to educate themselves and move along in life.
To everyone who came here to LOL and flamebait and yell ZOMG TIN HATS, have fun. The message is out and it will most likely be a blessing to someone somewhere, which was my intent.
But you are saying you are only interested in people who took the time to educate themselves according to what you believe to be correct. I have educated myself. I'm very well educated, thank you. I just happen to disagree with you.
I believe you are very well educated because your opinions are in line with my own. You are now whierd certified.0 -
An apple has about 12 grams of sugar, so I don't believe that people used to only get 15g.
I presume the argument is something like a lot fruit has been successively breed for sweetness over time and therefore has a greater sugar content then it did in the past.0 -
Taken out of context. The poster was flame-baiting with the statement 'Oh, so now water and fiber cause obesity?'
I'm not interested in THAT.
I am, however, interested in polite discussion of the linked content. Not rants and rampages of what may or may not be the root our country's obesity epidemic.
However, I do recognize the scarcity of people willing to have polite, thoughtful discussion on the topic. And in that case, i can just be satisfied with knowing that a few people took the time to educate themselves and move along in life.
To everyone who came here to LOL and flamebait and yell ZOMG TIN HATS, have fun. The message is out and it will most likely be a blessing to someone somewhere, which was my intent.
But you are saying you are only interested in people who took the time to educate themselves according to what you believe to be correct. I have educated myself. I'm very well educated, thank you. I just happen to disagree with you.
Eh, unfortunately, it's not me who did the work on this one, so no, you're not disagreeing with me. You're disagreeing with the content I presented, which is very different. The discussion I have participated in thus far has been about the content, not my own personal views. Maybe what I think about the content, but no farther than that.0 -
An apple has about 12 grams of sugar, so I don't believe that people used to only get 15g.
I presume the argument is something like a lot fruit has been successively breed for sweetness over time and therefore has a greater sugar content then it did in the past.
Molasses and honey were used as sweeteners for a long time. And syrups. So I am fairly sure that the average diet contained more than 15g of sugar.0 -
1hr 10 mins in: the guy's recommendations for the obese kids he treats in his clinic:
Get rid of all sugared liquids- only water and milk
Eat your carbohydrate with fiber
Wait 20 minutes for second portions
Buy your screen time minute-for-minutes with physical activity
I'm likin it.
SO I guess he wouldn't like that my mom fed me Dr. Pepper from my bottle when I was a baby....not even joking!
Omg what about your teeth!0 -
1hr 10 mins in: the guy's recommendations for the obese kids he treats in his clinic:
Get rid of all sugared liquids- only water and milk
Eat your carbohydrate with fiber
Wait 20 minutes for second portions
Buy your screen time minute-for-minutes with physical activity
I'm likin it.
SO I guess he wouldn't like that my mom fed me Dr. Pepper from my bottle when I was a baby....not even joking!
Yikes!0
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