UCSF Professor of Pediatrics on Sugar
Replies
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1hr 10 mins in: the guy's recommendations for the obese kids he treats in his clinic:
Get rid of all sugared liquids- only water and milk
Eat your carbohydrate with fiber
Wait 20 minutes for second portions
Buy your screen time minute-for-minutes with physical activity
I'm likin it.
SO I guess he wouldn't like that my mom fed me Dr. Pepper from my bottle when I was a baby....not even joking!
Omg what about your teeth!
No teeth yet?0 -
The ones drinking formula instead of breast milk it looks like...7ish minutes in.. "If obesity is about choice, please explain the epidemic of obese 6 month olds."
This came from a pediatrician? :noway:
My thoughts exactly. How does a person with even an average IQ not understand that SOMEONE is still choosing what a 6 month old eats?
Also, how many 6 month olds are eating processed sugar?
Why Doesn't Baby Formula List Sugar Content?
"Suburban grandmother Nancy Brecj said she could not believe her eyes when she couldn’t find a sugar amount listed on her granddaughter’s infant formula.
"We looked at all the formulas in the grocery store, even the store brand ones, and none of them listed the sugar grams per serving. None of them," Brecj told NBC Chicago.
Baby Kimberly’s weight had recently shot up four pounds in one month, Brecj said, after her mother switched her from breast milk to formula. As she was preparing Kimberly’s bottle of Enfamil one day, Brecj said she began to wonder exactly how much sugar was in it."
http://www.nbcchicago.com/investigations/target-5-sugar-baby-formula-139339308.html
That is so unfortunate. I'm betting they add sugar to it to make it more palatable for the babies. Personally, mine was still on mostly breast milk with just a few mashed veggies and fruits. I never gave sugar a second thought.0 -
7ish minutes in.. "If obesity is about choice, please explain the epidemic of obese 6 month olds."
Babies are lazy. They just sit around. No wonder they're such fatasses.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:0 -
An apple has about 12 grams of sugar, so I don't believe that people used to only get 15g.
I presume the argument is something like a lot fruit has been successively breed for sweetness over time and therefore has a greater sugar content then it did in the past.
Molasses and honey were used as sweeteners for a long time. And syrups. So I am fairly sure that the average diet contained more than 15g of sugar.
True but portion sizes have rapidly escalated in recent times so actual consumption has obviously markedly increased as well (particularly since the late 70s with misguided war on dietary fat.)
It seems unlikely admittedly but not beyond the realms of possibility. We have got so used to over consumption it seems alien...0 -
I've been exposed to fructose for 43 years and have none of those things. How did I get here?1:09:15- Chronic fructose exposure yields 8 of the 12 of the following, which are also associated with chronic alcohol use:
hematologic disorders
electrolyte abnormalities
hypertension
cardiac dilatation
cardiomyopathy
dyslipidemia
panreatitis
malnutrition
obesity
hepatic dysfunction
fetal insulin resistance
addiction
I'm starting to think of this whole thing as a 'How we got here' explanation in terms of being a country that is becoming predominantly ill and overweight.0 -
An apple has about 12 grams of sugar, so I don't believe that people used to only get 15g.
I presume the argument is something like a lot fruit has been successively breed for sweetness over time and therefore has a greater sugar content then it did in the past.
Molasses and honey were used as sweeteners for a long time. And syrups. So I am fairly sure that the average diet contained more than 15g of sugar.
True but portion sizes have rapidly escalated in recent times so actual consumption has obviously markedly increased as well (particularly since the late 70s with misguided war on dietary fat.)
It seems unlikely admittedly but not beyond the realms of possibility. We have got so used to over consumption it seems alien...
People couldn't just run to the store to buy fruit, so unless you lived in California or something you probably didn't eat a lot of fruit.
People also got rickets and stuff too.0 -
An apple has about 12 grams of sugar, so I don't believe that people used to only get 15g.
I presume the argument is something like a lot fruit has been successively breed for sweetness over time and therefore has a greater sugar content then it did in the past.
Molasses and honey were used as sweeteners for a long time. And syrups. So I am fairly sure that the average diet contained more than 15g of sugar.
True but portion sizes have rapidly escalated in recent times so actual consumption has obviously markedly increased as well (particularly since the late 70s with misguided war on dietary fat.)
It seems unlikely admittedly but not beyond the realms of possibility. We have got so used to over consumption it seems alien...
Yeah, it is hard to say exactly how much they used, but a single tablespoon of honey is greater than 15g of sugar, I believe (I didnt actually check). And honey was used in breadmaking, and bread was an essential part of the diet back then...so...0 -
An apple has about 12 grams of sugar, so I don't believe that people used to only get 15g.
I presume the argument is something like a lot fruit has been successively breed for sweetness over time and therefore has a greater sugar content then it did in the past.
Molasses and honey were used as sweeteners for a long time. And syrups. So I am fairly sure that the average diet contained more than 15g of sugar.
True but portion sizes have rapidly escalated in recent times so actual consumption has obviously markedly increased as well (particularly since the late 70s with misguided war on dietary fat.)
It seems unlikely admittedly but not beyond the realms of possibility. We have got so used to over consumption it seems alien...
People couldn't just run to the store to buy fruit, so unless you lived in California or something you probably didn't eat a lot of fruit.
People also got rickets and stuff too.
Excess fruits and veggies were stored through preservation and canning. Scurvy was mostly associated with sailors and some travellers.0 -
People couldn't just run to the store to buy fruit, so unless you lived in California or something you probably didn't eat a lot of fruit.
People also got rickets and stuff too.
Well, if they got rickets they obviously wouldn't be running anywhere...0 -
OP, it was an interesting listen. Thanks!
What I took away from it is that the correlation between the introdution of hfcs and the popularity of low fat diets (and consequently low fat, high sugar diets) has increased obesity and obesity related disease, especially in children. This seems reasonable. We eat more calories overall, too. There does seem to be a strong correlation between the two. Now, I'm sure there are lots of other contributing factors (like video games), but this is one we can pretty easily elminate or reduce.
The second point I took away from the lecture is: Why fructose by itself is bad (fructose with fruit is okay because of the fiber, so fruit is fine according to this lecture) is because of a couple reasons. It doesn't stimulate ghrelin (the full hormone. I think I'm remembering that correctly), so we can consume a lot of it and not feel hungry. This makes perfect sense to me. I used to drink loads of Dr. Pepper, with dinner. I'm shocked I was never obese.
The other reason it's bad is because it's processed like ethanol by the liver. I kinda glazed over at this point. I am at work, so listening and working make absorbing lectures in chemistry difficult.
So what I took away all summed up?... Yeah, pure fructose is bad (unlike glucose), but not the fructose you find in fruit because it comes paired with fiber. And fructose is added to everything anymore and the excess consumption is not so great for us.
I'm actually shocked people on this site are so up-at-arms about these statements. I thought it was well known that sugar in processed foods and drinks and juices may not be so awesome for us.
It'll personally make me think a little harder about the added sugar I probably don't need (like my yummy Chobani yogurt bites). I've already cut a lot of it out of my diet (with good results), but if you, random MFP reader, don't want to cut/limit/watch your intake, don't. It's none of my business, I kinda don't care, and I wouldn't cut my wine intake even if you warned me about the dangers of alcohol.
Again, thanks OP! It made my afternoon go by a little faster. And Lustig kind of reminds me of Mr. Mackey...m'kay.0 -
1hr 10 mins in: the guy's recommendations for the obese kids he treats in his clinic:
Get rid of all sugared liquids- only water and milk
Eat your carbohydrate with fiber
Wait 20 minutes for second portions
Buy your screen time minute-for-minutes with physical activity
I'm likin it.
SO I guess he wouldn't like that my mom fed me Dr. Pepper from my bottle when I was a baby....not even joking!
Omg what about your teeth!
Don't know what my baby teeth were like, but remarkably my permanent teeth are VERY healthy!0 -
This came from a pediatrician? :noway:
Not a pediatrician -- a professor of pediatrics. Huge difference.
Actually, I gotta point out that Dr. Lustig is a pediatric endocrinologist. He is a diabetes expert, and has spent about 16 years studying sugar and its efffect on the central nervous system and hormones. It is my understanding that, while not a whole lot of experts agree with him unconditionally, they do not dismiss him or his ideas outright.0 -
The message is out? Like you just made everyone aware of it?The message is out and it will most likely be a blessing to someone somewhere, which was my intent.
http://www.alanaragonblog.com/2010/01/29/the-bitter-truth-about-fructose-alarmism/
This is old, old news. Aragon was debunking it almost 4 years ago.0 -
Lustig is a moron. All of his studies that he basis these claims were on rats. On top of that they injected the rats with 60% of their total energy being fructose.
BRB. Injecting someone with 1500 calories of fructose. I wonder what will happen?
fructose is fine for people.
news article
http://www.stmichaelshospital.com/media/detail.php?source=hospital_news/2012/20120621_hn
pubmed articles
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22457397
transcript of interview with lustig and person who conducted the research
http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2013-01-07/dr-robert-lustig-fat-chance-beating-odds-against-sugar-processed-food-obesity-and-0
He talks about how everyone is hypercaloric so therefore sugar is bad.
I am not hypercaloric. He is mad that his studies have been disproven by studies on actual ppl0 -
Oh good, the "sugar rots your teeth" nonsense has made it into this thread too.Omg what about your teeth!0 -
I'm actually shocked people on this site are so up-at-arms about these statements. I thought it was well known that sugar in processed foods and drinks and juices may not be so awesome for us.
Because the obvious things like don't drink 5x 32oz Big Gulps per day turns into sugar is the devil and you're all going to die if you put a tsp of brown sugar in you oat meal kinda bull **** with the sugar fear mongers. You also end up with a lot of other un-informed people saying..."well, I just use honey" or whatever when reality is that sugar is sugar at the molecular level.
I would generally agree that added sugar in processed foods is unnecessary and frankly I cook primarily from scratch so it's not really an issue for me...but really, it's the fear mongering whether it be sugar, carbs in general, fat...you name it...the idea that you can blame a singular thing on the obesity epidemic and other health issues when in reality there is a culmination of things that people need to deal with in order to prevent these issues...not just blanket cutting out macros and micros.0 -
Oh good, the "sugar rots your teeth" nonsense has made it into this thread too.Omg what about your teeth!
actually Alan agrees with that. Too much sugar does some harm.0 -
1hr 10 mins in: the guy's recommendations for the obese kids he treats in his clinic:
Get rid of all sugared liquids- only water and milk
Eat your carbohydrate with fiber
Wait 20 minutes for second portions
Buy your screen time minute-for-minutes with physical activity
I'm likin it.
SO I guess he wouldn't like that my mom fed me Dr. Pepper from my bottle when I was a baby....not even joking!
:noway: Everybody knows you can only put FRUIT flavored sodas in a baby's bottle.0 -
OP, it was an interesting listen. Thanks!
What I took away from it is that the correlation between the introdution of hfcs and the popularity of low fat diets (and consequently low fat, high sugar diets) has increased obesity and obesity related disease, especially in children. This seems reasonable. We eat more calories overall, too. There does seem to be a strong correlation between the two. Now, I'm sure there are lots of other contributing factors (like video games), but this is one we can pretty easily elminate or reduce.
The second point I took away from the lecture is: Why fructose by itself is bad (fructose with fruit is okay because of the fiber, so fruit is fine according to this lecture) is because of a couple reasons. It doesn't stimulate ghrelin (the full hormone. I think I'm remembering that correctly), so we can consume a lot of it and not feel hungry. This makes perfect sense to me. I used to drink loads of Dr. Pepper, with dinner. I'm shocked I was never obese.
The other reason it's bad is because it's processed like ethanol by the liver. I kinda glazed over at this point. I am at work, so listening and working make absorbing lectures in chemistry difficult.
So what I took away all summed up?... Yeah, pure fructose is bad (unlike glucose), but not the fructose you find in fruit because it comes paired with fiber. And fructose is added to everything anymore and the excess consumption is not so great for us.
I'm actually shocked people on this site are so up-at-arms about these statements. I thought it was well known that sugar in processed foods and drinks and juices may not be so awesome for us.
It'll personally make me think a little harder about the added sugar I probably don't need (like my yummy Chobani yogurt bites). I've already cut a lot of it out of my diet (with good results), but if you, random MFP reader, don't want to cut/limit/watch your intake, don't. It's none of my business, I kinda don't care, and I wouldn't cut my wine intake even if you warned me about the dangers of alcohol.
Again, thanks OP! It made my afternoon go by a little faster. And Lustig kind of reminds me of Mr. Mackey...m'kay.
You're welcome!! Glad you were able to take something positive away from it!!0 -
The message is out? Like you just made everyone aware of it?The message is out and it will most likely be a blessing to someone somewhere, which was my intent.
http://www.alanaragonblog.com/2010/01/29/the-bitter-truth-about-fructose-alarmism/
This is old, old news. Aragon was debunking it almost 4 years ago.
You're taking it to the extremes, as people in these threads usually do. No claim of 'making everyone aware of it' was made.0 -
The message is out? Like you just made everyone aware of it?The message is out and it will most likely be a blessing to someone somewhere, which was my intent.
http://www.alanaragonblog.com/2010/01/29/the-bitter-truth-about-fructose-alarmism/
This is old, old news. Aragon was debunking it almost 4 years ago.
You're taking it to the extremes, as people in these threads usually do. No claim of 'making everyone aware of it' was made.
Also, thank you for the 'debunking' link. I will watch and form my own opinion.0 -
7ish minutes in.. "If obesity is about choice, please explain the epidemic of obese 6 month olds."
Babies are lazy. They just sit around. No wonder they're such fatasses.
^^^ truth0 -
Good grief.
The obesity epidemic of modern times is caused by one basic underlying factor -
Our caloric balance is no longer self-governing. We no longer have to invest 1,000 Calories to get a 1,500 calorie meal.
For a while we got away with it, because for the most part even though energy expenditure wasn't required, financial expenditure was. Obesity was still financially out of reach for most. But the advent of cheap food (which yes, I will accept was made possible in part by HFCS) removed that governor too.
Sure other things play a part - sweet things are tasty so we want to eat more, stress, limited time to prep food, etc.... But the reality is that if we can get past the self-balancing energy equation and to a position where we know how to balance it ourselves, you can beat obesity no matter what foods you choose to consume. Just look at the successful people on MFP, and the wide range of diets they enjoy.
In short, as I see it there are three phases to governing the energy-balance
1. Availability - the necessity of hunting and gathering greatly reduces net caloric intake.
2. Financial - although food is readily available, it's still too expensive to eat sufficiently to become obese.
3. Intellectual - now food is available and affordable, the individual must choose to voluntarily limit their intake and match it to their expenditure.
As a society, with the dawn of the 'quantified self' we are in the process of shifting from stage 2 to stage 3.
Any negative impacts that may or may not be caused by any particular food or nutrient, pales into insignificance in comparison.
Well said. It seems to me a lot of people are trying to avoid the personal responsibility route, in favor of pointing the blame. Whether it be sugar, fat, carbs, grains whatever.
People also seem to forget that anything in excess is going to cause problems.0 -
Ummmm...am I wrong or was it you who said "The message is out and it will most likely be a blessing to someone somewhere, which was my intent." ???
The message is out? Like you just made everyone aware of it?The message is out and it will most likely be a blessing to someone somewhere, which was my intent.
http://www.alanaragonblog.com/2010/01/29/the-bitter-truth-about-fructose-alarmism/
This is old, old news. Aragon was debunking it almost 4 years ago.
You're taking it to the extremes, as people in these threads usually do. No claim of 'making everyone aware of it' was made.
Why did you post it at all if you weren't trying to put the message out there and make people aware of it?0 -
Oh good, the "sugar rots your teeth" nonsense has made it into this thread too.Omg what about your teeth!
Potato chips are worse for them.0 -
People couldn't just run to the store to buy fruit, so unless you lived in California or something you probably didn't eat a lot of fruit.
People also got rickets and stuff too.
Actually you will find that in colder places it was possible to store apples and pears in cellars and they would last the majority of the winter. There are types of pears in fact that are inedible until the first frost hits. People used to preserve fruits in a variety of ways (if you are truly interested google it) and in fact most of them contained additional sweeteners like honey or syrups. Before we had sugar from sugar cane, we had sugar beets. In fact some countries still get their sugar from sugar beets.
What people didn't have were 10tsp of sugar in a soft drink.0 -
This was a good fear mongering, thanks!0
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7ish minutes in.. "If obesity is about choice, please explain the epidemic of obese 6 month olds."
Babies are lazy. They just sit around. No wonder they're such fatasses.
I got to this point and stopped reading - I don't think this thread can get better than this comment.0 -
22 minutes in: "Before the advent of food processing, sugars available from fruits and vegetables afforded us about 15g of sugar per day."
The yogurt I had last night had 15g of sugar in it.. which may explain why I immediately wanted to run back to the fridge and eat 5 more :-)
Too bad the majority of those "sugar grams" are from milk rather than table sugar.0 -
The only problem with sugar, in my opinion, it that it is hidden in a lot of foods that shouldn't have it, making them more calorie dense.
It isn't really the SUGAR that's the problem, but the fact that foods that should be volumetric are instead calorie dense. These add up, and we gain weight, all the while thinking that we're eating the same things we always have. We don't realize that our spaghetti sauce has increased from 35 to 90 cals per serving.
ETA: this can certainly be remedied with label reading or home cooking, but still...0
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