Relatively light people trying to get leaner
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I am only on page 4 lol So I have a lot more to read! I consider myself to be one of those that doesn't need to lose that much weight, but need to tone and get ride of the thing that hangs down below my belly button that my children left behind after they were born (how dare them!) and to firm up my legs, hate the fact that my inner thighs touch
Trying my best to do what I can.. but it's a long and very slow process And I can see how someone can get discouraging 0 -
Some words of encouragement...
http://bodyimprovements.wordpress.com/2011/03/30/why-your-goal-weight-is-stupid/0 -
Thank you for that. Nice article and I don't think that I have a magic number. I'm one that would be happy somewhere between 125-120 and thats only because I know that the fat I have lingering around has to weight something lol... I am using that measuring tape more as a guide and trying to go by that. I just want to look and feel healthy and buying a food scaled (done) watching what I eat, using weights and some cardio, and trying to set a good example to my kids its manly what its all about. I do not want to be sickly skinny nor skinny as I will never be like that, but I want to be well proportioned lol
I enjoy reading your advice! Thank you!0 -
Sounds to me like you've a firm grasp of how to look at things.0
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I'm in the very unenviable position of being female, in my late 30's, very short at 5'1", and being within my healthy weight range but needing to be leaner. I also need to watch my weight, even if the weight is from muscle. I rock climb, and in climbing, being heavy is just bad news, regardless of whether the weight is from muscle or fat. I don't know how many times I've seen guys come into the rock gym who are nothing but solid muscle, and they can't make it halfway up the wall. They're probably stronger than anyone else there, but the weight literally drags them down, not to mention the extra bulk getting in the way of the movements they need to make. Of course, those aren't the only reasons some have trouble, there's technique involved too, but most serious climbers know that they can't carry "extra" weight, regardless.
Since losing about 20 pounds, I'm climbing better than I ever have, and I don't want to lose that edge. I may be wrong, but I figure I have about 2-3 pounds of fat to lose. If possible, I would rather have that weight gone than replaced with muscle weight, but I'm not sure how feasible that is. Maybe a split down the middle, where my net loss is 1 pound on the scale as a result of losing 2 pounds of fat but gaining 1 pound of muscle? I don't know if it helps the equation, but today I'm at 105.5 (I just gained two pounds on a climbing trip that was busted by bad weather and turned into a three day restaurant tour). I had been holding between 103.5 and 104.5 for the last two months.
Tips, pointers, recommendations, or an internet dope-slap are all welcome
By the way, I would have sent this privately, but I thought it might be useful to others. I know there are a few climbers on MFP.
Thank you in advance. I sincerely appreciate your posts and help.0 -
I think it's awesome that you climb. I don't do a lot of rock climbing... I do more ice climbing. I love mountaineering and spend a lot of time in the White Mountains in NH and the Adirondacks in NY. I do get what you're saying.
Honestly, I wouldn't worry about gaining another pound of muscle or whatever. If you want to trim another couple of pounds of fat off, set your deficit and make sure you're eating plenty of protein and doing some for of strength training a couple of times per week. If you're climbing well, maintaining the muscle you currently have is critical.0 -
Hi, I love reading your posts and all the great info and research you gather!! Thanks so much for being such a consummate professional and curious to learn more and share it.
Here goes my question, based off of the quote you included in this thread:
"Frankly, I think most overweight people would probably do better doing lighter, higher rep types of weight training in the first place. There’s a lot of research showing that some of the issues associated with obesity are muscles that are packed full of both carbohydrate and fat. Depleting those tends to increase how well the body burns fat during the day as well as giving a bigger ’sink’ for incoming calories to go into. The heavy stuff just isn’t needed for muscle mass maintenance and lighter stuff may be better tolerated and have more beneficial metabolic effects in the short-term. As well, it provides a base of training for when heavier stuff is brought in later on. "
I am 5'0" and currently weigh 160 lbs. I've been a yo-yo the past 15 years, up and down, sometimes doing it unhealthy. This last up time, I vowed to do it healthy and for the last time. At my heaviest I was 205, lost about 25 lbs on my own through diet, and then started working out with a trainer (almost all interval with him, and I added on lots of cardio) several times a week. I also did the Biggest Loser resorts for a few weeks here and there, and got down to about 150. I stopped working out with my trainer, a few months ago because my physical therapist thought he was to put it kindly, not the best. I agreed. (I am finally rehabbing correctly from a marathon injury a few years back, left lower back, sacrum, left hamstring). I have been progressively getting the injury worked out, and was doing just pilates and some other low-impact classes for a few months. I recently got a little beagle puppy with a ton of energy and started hiking with her (we both love it!). We've been hiking about 1.5-3 hrs everyday, plus I'm doing MFP. I just started reading blogs about eating my exercise calories back (which I had never done, or even understood).
I'm wondering with reading all this, where I'm at? I know that I need to add strength training back into the mix, but not sure what to do about cardio and am very curious about the idea that my muscles still have a fair amount of carbs and fat stored. In particular, my thighs and calves are much bulkier than I'd like, but are pretty solid, not flabby.
Do I cut down on the length of the hikes some days, and add in afternoon strength training, high reps-lower weights? I'm just not sure. And considering that my goal is to lose another 40-60 lbs (I am not wedded to a number), do I really eat back all of my exercise calories for the time being?
Thanks so much. I want to eat and workout the most efficiently!!0 -
I have read this thread several times... love it! Thanks for all the useful information.
Me too.. exponentially helpful when I find myself obsessing about all the NUMBERS.. calories, weight, etc...0 -
Bump! I love this thread0
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Hi, I love reading your posts and all the great info and research you gather!! Thanks so much for being such a consummate professional and curious to learn more and share it.
Here goes my question, based off of the quote you included in this thread:
"Frankly, I think most overweight people would probably do better doing lighter, higher rep types of weight training in the first place. There’s a lot of research showing that some of the issues associated with obesity are muscles that are packed full of both carbohydrate and fat. Depleting those tends to increase how well the body burns fat during the day as well as giving a bigger ’sink’ for incoming calories to go into. The heavy stuff just isn’t needed for muscle mass maintenance and lighter stuff may be better tolerated and have more beneficial metabolic effects in the short-term. As well, it provides a base of training for when heavier stuff is brought in later on. "
I am 5'0" and currently weigh 160 lbs. I've been a yo-yo the past 15 years, up and down, sometimes doing it unhealthy. This last up time, I vowed to do it healthy and for the last time. At my heaviest I was 205, lost about 25 lbs on my own through diet, and then started working out with a trainer (almost all interval with him, and I added on lots of cardio) several times a week. I also did the Biggest Loser resorts for a few weeks here and there, and got down to about 150. I stopped working out with my trainer, a few months ago because my physical therapist thought he was to put it kindly, not the best. I agreed. (I am finally rehabbing correctly from a marathon injury a few years back, left lower back, sacrum, left hamstring). I have been progressively getting the injury worked out, and was doing just pilates and some other low-impact classes for a few months. I recently got a little beagle puppy with a ton of energy and started hiking with her (we both love it!). We've been hiking about 1.5-3 hrs everyday, plus I'm doing MFP. I just started reading blogs about eating my exercise calories back (which I had never done, or even understood).
I'm wondering with reading all this, where I'm at? I know that I need to add strength training back into the mix, but not sure what to do about cardio and am very curious about the idea that my muscles still have a fair amount of carbs and fat stored. In particular, my thighs and calves are much bulkier than I'd like, but are pretty solid, not flabby.
Do I cut down on the length of the hikes some days, and add in afternoon strength training, high reps-lower weights? I'm just not sure. And considering that my goal is to lose another 40-60 lbs (I am not wedded to a number), do I really eat back all of my exercise calories for the time being?
Thanks so much. I want to eat and workout the most efficiently!!
Okay, I've a few random thoughts...
1. Very happy to hear you fired your trainer. So many people stay stuck in the rut of working with a trainer simply because they built a friendship with them. Most trainers suck. So we need more people to demand progress in the field by firing the ones that aren't worth your time and money. I wrote extensively about this here for anyone who's currently working with or thinking about hiring a trainer:
http://bodyimprovements.wordpress.com/2011/03/09/how-to-select-a-trainer/
2. Congrats on your success thus far. Also congrats for the puppy. It's very cool that you guys are into hiking. I hate seeing lazy pet owners abuse their dogs by not letting them runaround. Most breeds want to get out, get moving, and expend some energy. I've a chocolate lab, Brady, and I take him hiking 2-3 times per week. I've a stream in my yard that he swims in near daily... even when it's cold. I also live right next to a park with loads of trails. Good on you for getting your dog out!
3. At 160 lbs, I would include strength training in your weekly routine - maybe 2 full body sessions per week where you're focusing on big movements that we've stressed elsewhere in this thread (squat variations, lunge variations, deadlift variations, hip thrusts/extensions, pushing, pulling, etc.) How heavy? Well, I'd probably focus on 2-4 sets per movement using 5-12 reps per set. Since that's relatively low reps per set, that implies that you're using relatively heavy weights. Heavy relative to your strength that is. Put differently, I wouldn't want to see you using a weight that you can do for 50 reps and stopping at 12.
As an example, you might have...
WORKOUT:
Squat - 3-5 sets x 5-12 reps
Bench - 3-5 sets x 5-12 reps
Row - 3-5 sets x 5-12 reps
You could do that 2 times per week and be golden. It's plain. It's simple. And when applied using the above... it'll work in terms of increasing strength and preserving muscle.
Granted, many would get bored with it pretty fast. That's why I'll typically add some variety. This could be accomplished by merely changing up the exercises each day you train. You could do something like an A program and a B program and alternate the two. You could extend that to an A, B, and C program if you'd like.
For instance, using the A/B template you could do:
Template A
Squat - 3-5 sets x 5-12 reps
Bench - 3-5 sets x 5-12 reps
Row - 3-5 sets x 5-12 reps
Template B
Barbell Hip Thrust - 3-5 sets x 5-12 reps
Overhead Press - 3-5 sets x 5-12 reps
Cable Pulldown - 3-5 sets x 5-12 reps
And that could work well for a long while.
Personally, I like to vary the intensity and volume over the course of a week though, which the above is not doing. I find my clients like this better too, and to be honest, it's probably a good idea to avoid stagnation and work the muscle using a variety of loading parameters.
With that in mind, I might do something like:
Template A
Squat - 3-5 sets of 4-6 reps
Bench - 3-5 sets of 4-6 reps
Row - 3-5 sets of 4-6 reps
Template B
Barbell Hip Thrust - 2-4 sets of 8-12 reps
Overhead Press - 2-4 sets of 8-12 reps
Cable Pulldown - 2-4 sets of 8-12 reps
The following week would be the same exercises, but template A would have the higher rep range and template B would have the lower rep range. It's also important to note that these exercises aren't special. They're good. But they can be switched. For instance, there are many variations of the squat - goblet squat, front squat, high bar barbell squat, low bar barbell squat, box squat, etc. With bench press you have barbell or dumbbell bench press in flat, incline and decline angles, pushups from various angles, etc. With rows you have barbell or dumbbell rows, chest supported rows, cable rows, inverted rows, etc. The list goes on. Obviously you can rotate exercises as you progress.
The above is the foundation of the "program". I'm going through this to *sort of* show you the steps that go through my mind when I'm thinking of this. Once the foundation is established you can add in accessory stuff which might make it look something like:
Template A
5-min jog on treadmill
Foam rolling and dynamic mobility stuff
Squat - 3-5 sets of 4-6 reps
Bench - 3-5 sets of 4-6 reps
Row - 3-5 sets of 4-6 reps
Single Leg Romanian Deadlift - 2 sets of 8-12 reps
Bicep Curls - 2 sets of 10-12
Planks - 2-3 sets of 30-60 seconds
Template B
5-min jog on treadmill
Foam rolling and dynamic mobility stuff
Barbell Hip Thrust - 2-4 sets of 8-12 reps
Overhead Press - 2-4 sets of 8-12 reps
Cable Pulldown - 2-4 sets of 8-12 reps
Alternating Lunges - 2 sets of 8-12 reps
Tricep Extensions - 2 sets of 10-12 reps
Pallof Presses - 2-3 sets of 10-15 reps
As you can see, it's not as simple as jotting down a program on a piece of paper. Even if I assessed you and wrote an individualized program for you at that time... it'd become obsolete over time. As your body changes, your "program" has to follow suit as well. Which is why most trainer's advice and prepackaged programs on the market are total B.S.
Fit your cardio in around this. Your hiking probably expends a good deal of energy and definitely accounts for some of, if not all of, your cardio. You can include some more traditional, structured stuff if you feel the need, just don't over do it and remember, the more you do, the more you should eat to maintain a *sane* energy availability. I like to roll with 25-30% deficits as an example.
If you want to throw in a circuit training resistance training day into the mix... you could do that as well. That would be where you're focusing on high reps, low weights, and low rest. There are innumerable ways of structuring these sessions which I can dive into if you are interested.
Threw a lot at you... so let's digest this and if you still have questions, let them fire.0 -
awesome post
I sorted my strength circuits from http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/lose_fat_stay_strong
Absolute killer!
Total Reps Load
20 Begin with a weight you think you can lift 3-5 times. If you can complete 6 or more reps on your first set, go a little heavier. If you can only complete 2 or fewer reps on your first set, go lighter.
25 Begin with a weight you can lift 4-6 times. If you can get 6 or more reps your first set, increase the weight. If you complete only 3 or fewer reps on your first set, reduce the weight a little.
30 Begin with a weight you think you can lift 6-8 times. If you can get 9 or more reps your first set, increase the weight. If you complete 4 reps or fewer on your first set, reduce the weight.
35 Begin with a weight you can lift 7-9 times. If you can complete 10 reps or more on your first set, increase the weight. If you can complete only 8 reps or fewer, reduce the weight.0 -
Lots of questions and I'm sure some are answered in this. The part about 12 x your weight to lose caught my eye. Would you say that that should be your base for MFP? So you put that number in instead of the golden 1200 MFP seems to set all the time. Right now I've got mine at 1250 as my BMR is 1245. I eat all exercise Cal's but I'm wondering if the base isn't enough and that I'm not getting enough.0
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Remember, Steve said that he doesn't use MFP to track and that the x12 (or whatever) is total assuming a sane amount of exercise. (resistance training being primary focus)
Choose goal
set targets (cals and exercise)
evaluate results
adjust where necessary0 -
Remember, Steve said that he doesn't use MFP to track and that the x12 (or whatever) is total assuming a sane amount of exercise. (resistance training being primary focus)
Choose goal
set targets (cals and exercise)
evaluate results
adjust where necessary
I'm sure Steve will clarify but multiplying total body weight by 10 roughly equates to a person's BMR, and by 12 equates roughly to daily calorie needs for a sedentary person.
Therefore is you use the 12 multiplier your deficit is essentially created through daily activity (which can add up to a suprising amount) additional exercise and energy needs to process food. It's a clean, simple approach and takes a lot of worry out of the process. No need to stress about "should I eat back my exercise calories" or "will I go into starvation mode" and so on. As you say it may need a bit of tweaking here and there depending on results but that is a breeze once you have a sensible baseline.
Incidentally, when I was at my leanest some 15 years ago now I was using a multiplier of 8 but with no cardio and a short weights session every 4 - 5 days or so. It worked very well over a short time frame but was no way realistic in the long term. I'm glad I did it if for no other reason to discover that, for me at least, being sub 10% BF was waaaaaay over rated.0 -
awesome post
I sorted my strength circuits from http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/lose_fat_stay_strong
Absolute killer!
Total Reps Load
20 Begin with a weight you think you can lift 3-5 times. If you can complete 6 or more reps on your first set, go a little heavier. If you can only complete 2 or fewer reps on your first set, go lighter.
25 Begin with a weight you can lift 4-6 times. If you can get 6 or more reps your first set, increase the weight. If you complete only 3 or fewer reps on your first set, reduce the weight a little.
30 Begin with a weight you think you can lift 6-8 times. If you can get 9 or more reps your first set, increase the weight. If you complete 4 reps or fewer on your first set, reduce the weight.
35 Begin with a weight you can lift 7-9 times. If you can complete 10 reps or more on your first set, increase the weight. If you can complete only 8 reps or fewer, reduce the weight.
I've to say, I don't agree with a lot in that article. Which is typical with most of the stuff that comes out of t-nation as they're a dishonest sack of lard in this industry if you ask me. They've some phenomenal coaches who are paid to write for them - Cressey, Robertson, Dan John, etc. But the vast majority of writers "churn" information - repackage the same basic principles in slightly different ways and promote it as revolutionary because, hey, that's what they're paid to do. And it's dishonest if you ask me. Let's face it... t-nation, first and foremost, is a supplement company.
Specifically in regards to the article, it's a fine way of structuring a circuit workout (though I'd opt for other ways), but to imply that it's the way to increase muscle and lose fat simultaneously is intellectually dishonest. Just because something feels heavy and continuous doesn't mean you're simultaneously adding and removing various tissues. Energy status (calories surplus, deficit, or maintenance) has more to do with this than any other variable. This article would imply that you can be in a calorie deficit and because the circuit they're proposing is relatively heavy, you'll maximize fat loss AND muscle maintenance/growth.
I know a few guys who make their living off of bringing bodybuilders and figure athletes into their competitions in stage-ready shape and the last thing they do is drop the load on the bar. Who said anything about dropping the load on the bar in that article? Well, if you're relying on circuit training, even if they're heavier in nature, by default fatigue (stemming from the low rest protocol) is going to get in the way of load. Last I checked, for muscle preservation while in a calorie deficit, the last thing you want to be doing is reducing the load, as it directly reduced the primary stimulus for muscle maintenance/growth.
Long story short - I've found that in order to maximize muscle maintenance/growth while dieting, you should keep your strength sessions separate. If you want to throw some circuits into the mix in addition to the strength sessions (as a form of cardio primarily) go right ahead. But don't water down the effects strength training has on muscle maintenance/growth by relying solely on circuit training.
Just my 2 cents.0 -
Lots of questions and I'm sure some are answered in this. The part about 12 x your weight to lose caught my eye. Would you say that that should be your base for MFP? So you put that number in instead of the golden 1200 MFP seems to set all the time. Right now I've got mine at 1250 as my BMR is 1245. I eat all exercise Cal's but I'm wondering if the base isn't enough and that I'm not getting enough.
I've got nothing to add to what Chris and MSF stated.
If I had to throw out a range that "works" for most exercising people when it comes to fat loss, it'd be 8-12 calories per pound of total daily energy intake.0 -
stroutman I hope you dont mind answering questions, I'd love to get your thoughts on my progress, or lack thereof at this point.
I'm 29 years old. I started 10 months ago 5'2 187lbs 32% body fat. I did a 1200 calorie diet, cardio (45 mins) and weight training 3 days a week. I am now 140 even. According to the last lean body mass test my trainer gave me my body fat is about 19.2%, even though the BMI calculators put me at about 26% and still considered overweight.
With 118lbs of lean body mass I know I cant lose 20lbs of fat without decreasing my lean body mass. At this point my body is no longer responding to the 1200 calorie diet. The scale is literally not moving. I increased my calories to 1400 thinking maybe with more muscle I now should eat more calories - but scale still isn't budging.
I know its time to change up my gym routine, I have increased my weights over the last 10 months to be honest I'm getting bored with it. I ordered Insanity yesterday and am looking forward to kicking my own *kitten*.
So anyways, with that bit of history for you.....What do you recommend calorie wise to help the numbers on the scale go down? Ideally I'd like to be 120, but put 130 as my goal since my lean body mass is 118 and I know we all have to carry SOME fat.0 -
Steve: What do you think about the new gadget the "FitBit" to measure daily calorie expenditure? Last year, I spent 10 months on MFP consistently logging food, exercising and I gained 5 pounds!
I am short at 5'2" and weigh (sadly
) 195 pounds. I think that after years of dieting, I have put my body into starvation mode and not sure how many calories I should be eating everyday. The MFP estimates seem way too high for me. I am pretty active and until recently exercised 4 days out of the week. A broken ankle has sidelined me the past two months.
Instead of using MFP's calculations, should I just multiply my current weight by 12 to determine my daily caloric intake minus the deficit?
BTW, I have had my BMR tested...the result was 1027 calories using the breathing method and 1650 using the Bioimpedence method - go figure???? Left me totally confused.
Thanks for all your wonderful advice on this thread 0 -
I've tried everything. Thought I had a ton of health knowledge but so many things I read are contradicting. So let's say I know nothing and start from the beginning!... I've struggled for years to get a 'hot'bod. I got close but it got harder ( I had 3 kids!) and after the kids kids and getting older (im 35) I swear my metabolism dropped. I CANT LOSE WEIGHT! I've never been an obese person. I'm within my healthy weight range (150lbs. 5'6") but I'm chubby & flabby, lol. One time I watched what I ate and exercised for 3 months and lost 2lbs. I'm at a loss what to do. What plan of attack would you give a 35 yr old woman who is 150 lbs bug would like to weight pre-wedding weight of. 135lbs. ? Thanks0
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Sammyluvsteve wrote: »I've tried everything. Thought I had a ton of health knowledge but so many things I read are contradicting. So let's say I know nothing and start from the beginning!... I've struggled for years to get a 'hot'bod. I got close but it got harder ( I had 3 kids!) and after the kids kids and getting older (im 35) I swear my metabolism dropped. I CANT LOSE WEIGHT! I've never been an obese person. I'm within my healthy weight range (150lbs. 5'6") but I'm chubby & flabby, lol. One time I watched what I ate and exercised for 3 months and lost 2lbs. I'm at a loss what to do. What plan of attack would you give a 35 yr old woman who is 150 lbs bug would like to weight pre-wedding weight of. 135lbs. ? Thanks
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