Clean Eating Bashing?
Replies
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That's a good link.
I agree and it covers many of the misconceptions about both approaches. And how you can do both. I actually don't think they are mutually exclusive.
I agree...I think it is a very good link.0 -
A blog by a 17 year old. Granted, he may be 18 by now. :happy:An article by a 17 year old isn't going to end this debate. It will definitely take more than that on this board...lol.
Armi can do what he deems best for him. Just as everyone on here should do what they believe is best FOR THEM.
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What should shock you the most is that this 17 year old has a better grasp on reality, logic, science, and nutrition than 99% of the people on MFP.0 -
And it's so completely unbiased. It even says so right at the beginning, as any unbiased article must.0 -
I don't feel like the "clean eaters" want the rest of the world to accept their point of view. They have a point of view and they don't expect you to agree with it, they just don't want you to belittle them or their point of view in the process.
At it's base, that seams like a reasonable request. In reality, it's not.
Internet discussion boards are known for not being the healthiest place to debate anything that is considered controversial by the participants on that board. Some of you might be asking "how can eating clean be controversial?!?!", but in our MFP universe, it creates a lot of disagreement and debate so it fits the definition. People on internet boards can be aggressive, rude or even demeaning to points that are contrary to their own.
What people need to do is ignore the people they think are bashing them. If you think "Clean Eating" is great and you want to start a discussion about it... go for it. Just be prepared for an onslaught of people trying to tear the very notion of it down. Ignore those posts. Read the one's that seem relevant to your discussion.
That's it. Stop feeling bashed. Stop feeling offended. Just discuss your points, ask your questions, and ignore the rest.
If you can't do that. Go outside. The internet is no place for you.
.
To be honest, I doubt that individual "clean eaters" (or those who eat paleo, or Atkins, or whatever diet philosophy you care to choose) would get nearly as much pushback if they would quit posting factually incorrect statements.
I've noticed that if a poster says "I follow X diet because I want to and it makes me feel good", there's rarely any problem (assuming they're not doing something unhealthy). When they say "I follow X diet because fake science and\or propaganda", that's when there's a flurry of members posting counter arguments that inevitably get taken as an attack on the diet, when it's really challenging the reasoning of the poster.
Bet if someone posts "I restrict my calories to lose weight because that increases my metabolism and keeps me in ketosis", they'll get jumped on pretty quickly, even though the method to lose weight is fine. But the reasoning is clearly wonky.0 -
This should, but won't, end each and every discussion involving "clean eating."
An article by a 17 year old isn't going to end this debate. It will definitely take more than that on this board...lol.
Armi's stuff is solid.
However, just in case...this guy has been around for a while
http://www.simplyshredded.com/research-review-the-dirt-on-clean-eating-written-by-nutrition-expert-alan-aragon.html
So has he:
http://www.shreddedknowledge.com/home/a-talk-with-the-doc-dr-layne-norton/
These guys have been around also:
http://www.3dmusclejourney.com/2010-01qa.php
My favorite quote from Eric Helms...also been in the field for a while "Once our nutrient needs are met, we don’t get extra credit for eating more nutritious food!"0 -
I don't post much, but have stalked these boards for quite a while and the clean-eating bashing is a big turn-off for me personally. These are the reasons I choose to eat "cleaner":
1. I enjoy cooking
2. I want to know where as many elements of my food come from as possible
3. I want to maintain the energy to sustain an active lifestyle
4. I want good skin, hair, and teeth
5. I want good digestion
6. I want to set a good example for my children
7. I don't want to rely on supplements or medications
8. I don't want to feel bad if I chose to have some candy
8. When I know better, I do better
Of course all of this is subjective, but the great thing is I don't have to rely on anyone else's experiences but my own. I don't have to quantify or qualify or justify. Period.
And those who choose not to eat clean get the same results...that is not relegated to "clean" eaters.
And we don't bash clean eaters for their choices the bashing happens when they tell someone new that it is the only way to lose weight and be healthy. That is false and misleading and can and will lead to the downfall of those who really don't understand what they are being told...most people go gung ho and end up binging on the stuff they are deprived of when they don't have to be deprived.
Choosing to have candy and not feeling bad? how is that only for a clean eater?0 -
This site makes me laugh I think the majority of people on here get a good workout typing out their frustrations ( love you all). We are only accountable for what we put in our own bodies. We can not influence someone who does not want to be influenced ( people are not puppets). We have control of ourselves only. We are all entitled to our opinion right or wrong. Everything is worth a second look ( I said look not do). Some things are worth a try. Every individual has a path to go and that path is just that individual. Good luck to all on their individual path. Keep not only your eyes and ears open but your mind as well. My 2 cents take it or leave it but glad you read it. Peace.0
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If this was the case, there would be a lot less arguing. Unfortunately, the discussion almost invariably goes like this:I don't feel like the "clean eaters" want the rest of the world to accept their point of view. They have a point of view and they don't expect you to agree with it, they just don't want you to belittle them or their point of view in the process.
At it's base, that seams like a reasonable request. In reality, it's not.
Clean Eater: "I eat clean because it's SOOO much better for your health."
IIFYM: "I eat a mostly whole foods diet, but once my nutritional needs are met, I also find room to enjoy a bowl of ice cream or a Pop-tart."
Clean Eater: "POP-TARTS ARE POISON! ENJOY YOUR CANCER YOU STUPID #$!@#$#!!"
That's usually why "clean eaters" tend to have less than positive reputations here.0 -
This actually says more about you than either "group".
If this was the case, there would be a lot less arguing. Unfortunately, the discussion almost invariably goes like this:I don't feel like the "clean eaters" want the rest of the world to accept their point of view. They have a point of view and they don't expect you to agree with it, they just don't want you to belittle them or their point of view in the process.
At it's base, that seams like a reasonable request. In reality, it's not.
Clean Eater: "I eat clean because it's SOOO much better for your health."
IIFYM: "I eat a mostly whole foods diet, but once my nutritional needs are met, I also find room to enjoy a bowl of ice cream or a Pop-tart."
Clean Eater: "POP-TARTS ARE POISON! ENJOY YOUR CANCER YOU STUPID #$!@#$#!!"
That's usually why "clean eaters" tend to have less than positive reputations here.
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This should, but won't, end each and every discussion involving "clean eating."
An article by a 17 year old isn't going to end this debate. It will definitely take more than that on this board...lol.
Armi's stuff is solid.
However, just in case...this guy has been around for a while
http://www.simplyshredded.com/research-review-the-dirt-on-clean-eating-written-by-nutrition-expert-alan-aragon.html
So has he:
http://www.shreddedknowledge.com/home/a-talk-with-the-doc-dr-layne-norton/
These guys have been around also:
http://www.3dmusclejourney.com/2010-01qa.php
My favorite quote from Eric Helms...also been in the field for a while "Once our nutrient needs are met, we don’t get extra credit for eating more nutritious food!"
I wasn't discrediting him at all. I was just saying that it will take more to end the debate here. Politics, Religion, and now apparently clean eating aren't worth debating anymore. Everyone has their opinions, no one will change them.
Based on the quote you posted by Eric Helms...My thoughts are that it doesn't help to go above and beyond with the "nutritious" portions of a meal, but in my mind, that doesn't cover the remaining items you ingest (chemicals, preservatives...etc) that have nothing to do with nutrition. Do they do harm? I believe "clean" eaters think so, and "dirty" eaters do not. Most just believe that in moderation it's probably fine.0 -
:laugh: This actually says more about you than either "group".
If this was the case, there would be a lot less arguing. Unfortunately, the discussion almost invariably goes like this:I don't feel like the "clean eaters" want the rest of the world to accept their point of view. They have a point of view and they don't expect you to agree with it, they just don't want you to belittle them or their point of view in the process.
At it's base, that seams like a reasonable request. In reality, it's not.
Clean Eater: "I eat clean because it's SOOO much better for your health."
IIFYM: "I eat a mostly whole foods diet, but once my nutritional needs are met, I also find room to enjoy a bowl of ice cream or a Pop-tart."
Clean Eater: "POP-TARTS ARE POISON! ENJOY YOUR CANCER YOU STUPID #$!@#$#!!"
That's usually why "clean eaters" tend to have less than positive reputations here.
You spend an awful lot of time telling us about how you don't actually say anything.0 -
:laugh: This actually says more about you than either "group".
If this was the case, there would be a lot less arguing. Unfortunately, the discussion almost invariably goes like this:I don't feel like the "clean eaters" want the rest of the world to accept their point of view. They have a point of view and they don't expect you to agree with it, they just don't want you to belittle them or their point of view in the process.
At it's base, that seams like a reasonable request. In reality, it's not.
Clean Eater: "I eat clean because it's SOOO much better for your health."
IIFYM: "I eat a mostly whole foods diet, but once my nutritional needs are met, I also find room to enjoy a bowl of ice cream or a Pop-tart."
Clean Eater: "POP-TARTS ARE POISON! ENJOY YOUR CANCER YOU STUPID #$!@#$#!!"
That's usually why "clean eaters" tend to have less than positive reputations here.
Meh, considering this thread was supposed to be some white knight defense of the clean eaters from being "bashed" I really don't have to look any further than this quote from the OP
to prove my point anyway.I don't think it's appropriate to disparage those want to put more effort into their own health and the health of society just because you're not at that point
The clean eater OP couldn't even get through an entire post without disparaging and bashing anyone who disagrees with her viewpoint, as putting less effort into their health.0 -
Meh, sure, why not? In for round 2.0
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Say what? You REALLY have a hard time understanding (me). :huh:
:laugh: This actually says more about you than either "group".
If this was the case, there would be a lot less arguing. Unfortunately, the discussion almost invariably goes like this:I don't feel like the "clean eaters" want the rest of the world to accept their point of view. They have a point of view and they don't expect you to agree with it, they just don't want you to belittle them or their point of view in the process.
At it's base, that seams like a reasonable request. In reality, it's not.
Clean Eater: "I eat clean because it's SOOO much better for your health."
IIFYM: "I eat a mostly whole foods diet, but once my nutritional needs are met, I also find room to enjoy a bowl of ice cream or a Pop-tart."
Clean Eater: "POP-TARTS ARE POISON! ENJOY YOUR CANCER YOU STUPID #$!@#$#!!"
That's usually why "clean eaters" tend to have less than positive reputations here.
You spend an awful lot of time telling us about how you don't actually say anything.0 -
sup?0
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If this was the case, there would be a lot less arguing. Unfortunately, the discussion almost invariably goes like this:I don't feel like the "clean eaters" want the rest of the world to accept their point of view. They have a point of view and they don't expect you to agree with it, they just don't want you to belittle them or their point of view in the process.
At it's base, that seams like a reasonable request. In reality, it's not.
Clean Eater: "I eat clean because it's SOOO much better for your health."
IIFYM: "I eat a mostly whole foods diet, but once my nutritional needs are met, I also find room to enjoy a bowl of ice cream or a Pop-tart."
Clean Eater: "POP-TARTS ARE POISON! ENJOY YOUR CANCER YOU STUPID #$!@#$#!!"
That's usually why "clean eaters" tend to have less than positive reputations here.
Pop tarts are not healthy.. I don't even think an iifym person would try to say they are. But you are clearly biased.. as a lot of times it's not "after I've met my nutritional needs" It's simply eat the ice cream because you have room for it! It took me a long to to figure out what the heck iifym meant because it's not explained properly or at all in a lot of cases. at least when someone talks about eating clean they tell you what they mean. Whether or not you agree is a totally different issue. and that is what starts it. A person says here's what clean eating is.. and we all know that the next clean eater will say.. no it's this.. it's personal, based on a persons goals and dietary needs and beliefs. It's very frustrating to have your diet ripped apart and questioned. I'm sure for both sides. But it happens more, from what i see, to clean eaters then any other group on here.
ETA: Besides if a person is trying to follow a clean diet and asks about eating a certain food. it might be more helpful to tell them that this food is not considered a clean food and if they want to eat it that badly they probably need to rethink their diet of choice. Just a suggestion.. Might avoid all the bashing and arguments that inevitably follow. (or not?) lol If you ask me why i eat clean or what my idea of clean is I will tell you. You don't have to like it or agree. That's the beauty of it all.0 -
OK, so I read part of the first thread...didn't get through all 20 pages, lol. I'll just list my reason....
I was diagnosed with stage IV endometriosis last May. They have found that eating "clean" can help with the pain. So I've been trying it. It's WORKING. I notice when I fall off the wagon and eat crap food, I don't feel as well. I'm trying my best to eat clean at all times. Weight loss for me is just a bonus (I've lost 20lbs, but just started on MFP today, so started with today's weight)
I also think that eating 90/10 or even 80/20 isn't going to kill you. Judge for yourself. If you feel ok , i.e. not nauseous, bloated, or in pain, eating some "junk" and it makes you happy, GO FOR IT!0 -
... and it just doesn't stop. Let me know when one is taken over to the supposed dark side will ya. Or even if anyone gets the opposing side to agree with them I'd like to see that. The show is getting a little monotone same old same old you've got to through in something new from time to time at least for the sake of entertainment Peace0
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When did I make any kind of claim about the health benefits of a Pop-tart? They provide pretty good energy for a workout, other than that, they are an occasional treat. Exactly what am I biased about? The fact that I eat a whole foods diet, including grass fed meat, home grown produce, condiments like mayo and mustard that I make from scratch at home, home made scratch made bread, and then the occasional bowl of Ben & Jerry's to go with it? I'm confused as to what my bias is? Nobody tears down clean eaters here, clean eaters tear down everyone else. Look at your first sentence "Pop-tarts aren't healthy." Exactly what relevance does that even have to what I posted? It was simply an attack for the sake of an attack.
If this was the case, there would be a lot less arguing. Unfortunately, the discussion almost invariably goes like this:I don't feel like the "clean eaters" want the rest of the world to accept their point of view. They have a point of view and they don't expect you to agree with it, they just don't want you to belittle them or their point of view in the process.
At it's base, that seams like a reasonable request. In reality, it's not.
Clean Eater: "I eat clean because it's SOOO much better for your health."
IIFYM: "I eat a mostly whole foods diet, but once my nutritional needs are met, I also find room to enjoy a bowl of ice cream or a Pop-tart."
Clean Eater: "POP-TARTS ARE POISON! ENJOY YOUR CANCER YOU STUPID #$!@#$#!!"
That's usually why "clean eaters" tend to have less than positive reputations here.
Pop tarts are not healthy.. I don't even think an iifym person would try to say they are. But you are clearly biased.. as a lot of times it's not "after I've met my nutritional needs" It's simply eat the ice cream because you have room for it! It took me a long to to figure out what the heck iifym meant because it's not explained properly or at all in a lot of cases. at least when someone talks about eating clean they tell you what they mean. Whether or not you agree is a totally different issue. and that is what starts it. A person says here's what clean eating is.. and we all know that the next clean eater will say.. no it's this.. it's personal, based on a persons goals and dietary needs and beliefs. It's very frustrating to have your diet ripped apart and questioned. I'm sure for both sides. But it happens more, from what i see, to clean eaters then any other group on here.0 -
Sure, why not...
...even though the sequel is (almost) never better than the original.
ETA: "Clean" adherents, behold and tremble in fear: http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/diary/jofjltncb6
(...and scroll back a few days if you're really brave.)0 -
OK, so I read part of the first thread...didn't get through all 20 pages, lol. I'll just list my reason....
I was diagnosed with stage IV endometriosis last May. They have found that eating "clean" can help with the pain. So I've been trying it. It's WORKING. I notice when I fall off the wagon and eat crap food, I don't feel as well. I'm trying my best to eat clean at all times. Weight loss for me is just a bonus (I've lost 20lbs, but just started on MFP today, so started with today's weight)
I also think that eating 90/10 or even 80/20 isn't going to kill you. Judge for yourself. If you feel ok , i.e. not nauseous, bloated, or in pain, eating some "junk" and it makes you happy, GO FOR IT!
I have endometriosis too how horrible that pain is I am so glad this is working for you!!! Seriously I would eat rocks if it would help no matter what anybody said!0 -
Why is this topic 2 threads long already. The original OP was obviously trolling everyone.0
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Pop tarts are not healthy..
ORLY?0 -
Pop tarts are not healthy.. I don't even think an iifym person would try to say they are.
Nor are they unhealthy.
An IIFYM person would say that the healthiness of a particular item, or lack thereof, is itself a myth. Only a diet can be healthy or unhealthy, that trait cannot be applied to an individual food item (barring allergies or other acute toxicity).
This is not that hard to grasp. Heath food is a myth. So is junk food.0 -
Why is this topic 2 threads long already. The original OP was obviously trolling everyone.
Some topics are bigger than just the OP...
...and the intended audience for this discussion certainly is.0 -
Pop tarts are not healthy.. I don't even think an iifym person would try to say they are.
Nor are they unhealthy.
An IIFYM person would say that the healthiness of a particular item, or lack thereof, is itself a myth. Only a diet can be healthy or unhealthy, that trait cannot be applied to an individual food item (barring allergies or other acute toxicity).
This is not that hard to grasp. Heath food is a myth. So is junk food.
I bolded the line with which I disagree. Based on this thread alone, it appears to be very difficult for many.0 -
When did I make any kind of claim about the health benefits of a Pop-tart? They provide pretty good energy for a workout, other than that, they are an occasional treat. Exactly what am I biased about? The fact that I eat a whole foods diet, including grass fed meat, home grown produce, condiments like mayo and mustard that I make from scratch at home, home made scratch made bread, and then the occasional bowl of Ben & Jerry's to go with it? I'm confused as to what my bias is? Nobody tears down clean eaters here, clean eaters tear down everyone else. Look at your first sentence "Pop-tarts aren't healthy." Exactly what relevance does that even have to what I posted? It was simply an attack for the sake of an attack.
Would you tell a vegan to go eat a big ole steak and then bash them for saying they won't or don't eat that food and stating their reason why? Probably not. But you'll do it to those who eat clean, because we don't eat pop tarts (or whatever food you want to insert there). Pop tarts give me no energy. Pop tarts give me stomach aches. That's why I don't eat pop tarts. I'm not sure how it was an attack to say pop tarts are not healthy, pretty sure that's a fact. Plus, it's not presented as occasional. it's presented as just eat it and as if they are eaten all the time. I don't fault *you* for eating a pop tart, but telling a clean eater to eat them is just asking for an argument.0 -
Pop tarts are not healthy.. I don't even think an iifym person would try to say they are.
Nor are they unhealthy.
An IIFYM person would say that the healthiness of a particular item, or lack thereof, is itself a myth. Only a diet can be healthy or unhealthy, that trait cannot be applied to an individual food item (barring allergies or other acute toxicity).
This is not that hard to grasp. Heath food is a myth. So is junk food.
I bolded the line with which I disagree. Based on this thread alone, it appears to be very difficult for many.
I'm having a mental meltdown as we type
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There are people in every group of humans that bash others, think they're better, smarter than others. etc. It's human nature. Some of us suck.0
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Pop tarts are not healthy.. I don't even think an iifym person would try to say they are.
Nor are they unhealthy.
An IIFYM person would say that the healthiness of a particular item, or lack thereof, is itself a myth. Only a diet can be healthy or unhealthy, that trait cannot be applied to an individual food item (barring allergies or other acute toxicity).
This is not that hard to grasp. Heath food is a myth. So is junk food.
I bolded the line with which I disagree. Based on this thread alone, it appears to be very difficult for many.
I'm having a mental meltdown as we type
Maybe it's caused by your diet. Are you consuming enough dietary fat?0
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