Clean Eating Bashing?

Sabine_Stroehm

I haven't got 6K posts and years on this board, but I will say a couple of things:

Flaunting a McDonalds habit and love of poptarts flies in the face of everything most newbie (and old) dieters, as well as others, have learned or in the process of learning about diet,health, and nutrition. And that is exactly why it is done. But it is a knee jerk - in your face response that provokes. I get why. I get I the " I lost a million pounds eating Mickey D's, candy bars, and drinking pepsi" and it worked for me. But just as valid are those of us who eating snickers makes us feel like crap. Who believe that eating whole foods is better for our health - because we feel better eating that way. And I don't think either perspective is wrong. And, in fact, I think most folks on this board, talk a big twinkie and poptart, but in reality, don't do much of them either. They choose not to. Not because they are "bad" but because they don't fit their "macros." Choices. And my guess is that 99% of us do not stick to anything 100% of the time.

Healthy? Happy? Losing weight? Or gaining muscle? Feel good? Then it is all good. Who cares what anyone else thinks.

Great post. I tried saying something similar, but you said it more eloquently. I have often wondered if some of us post with great fervor about what we eat about 20% of the time, while others post with gusto about what they eat 80% (or whatever percentage) of the time.
I too find that building my diet around whole foods makes me feel better. I eat snacks and the occasional meal that aren't nutritious as well, but don't consider those snacks the basis of my diet.

The way I see it, none of this has anything to do with how often anyone eats anything.

This entire argument is about whether certain foods are automatically bad. You warn of dangerous health consequences for people who eat "unclean" food, and I think those crazy scare tactics are not only wrong but horrendously counterproductive.

I get how you see it, yes. I get what you *think* I say....

paleojoe

So I can better understand, you believe there is no nutritional difference between the beef in a McDonalds Big Mac and a rib eye from a grass fed cow.

Why would you try to compare ground beef to ribeye? Make a fair comparison.

Ok, McDonald's ground beef to ground beef from a grass fed cow...

WendyTerry420

So I can better understand, you believe there is no nutritional difference between the beef in a McDonalds Big Mac and a rib eye from a grass fed cow.

Why would you try to compare ground beef to ribeye? Make a fair comparison.

I agree with jonny on this one..nothing beats a nice big juicy ribeye...regardless of how it's fed.

But you take ground beef and make a burger at home the same size as the one at Micky D's and yes there is no nutrional difference...but the Micky D's one tastes better cause someone else made it.

I have to disagree. McD's is pretty boring. ("Where's the Beef?") I'm not a burger fan, per se, but I will eat a burger from Wendy's or Dairy Queen. Those two are the only ones that I can say, "That tasted good."

likitisplit

Confuzzled4ever

haha.

it's an opinion.. people ask a question.. I believe X you believe Y. Both based off what we've read, and what we've experienced. I've never attacked an "unclean" eater.. other then to say grease laden food is unhealthy (which it is) and pop tarts are not health food (which they are not). There mere mention of "eat clean" elicits the sort of response you see in this thread.

It's like choosing a political party only in the nutrition world. Instead of Dem or Rep.. we have Clean and Unclean. And the truth is *most people* fall into a category somewhere in the middle, but will defend their position vehemently. lol.

I'm going to back to my popcorn now.. lol

likitisplit

So I can better understand, you believe there is no nutritional difference between the beef in a McDonalds Big Mac and a rib eye from a grass fed cow.

Why would you try to compare ground beef to ribeye? Make a fair comparison.

Ok, McDonald's ground beef to ground beef from a grass fed cow...

Pretty much (if the fat content is the same and the ground beef from the grass fed cow has been frozen) unless you can show me a peer reviewed study that says different.

likitisplit

haha.

it's an opinion.. people ask a question.. I believe X you believe Y. Both based off what we've read, and what we've experienced. I've never attacked an "unclean" eater.. other then to say grease laden food is unhealthy (which it is) and pop tarts are not health food (which they are not). There mere mention of "eat clean" elicits the sort of response you see in this thread.

It's like choosing a political party only in the nutrition world. Instead of Dem or Rep.. we have Clean and Unclean. And the truth is *most people* fall into a category somewhere in the middle, but will defend their position vehemently. lol.

I'm going to back to my popcorn now.. lol

Which is "unclean:" the Democrats or the Republicans?

jonnythan

So I can better understand, you believe there is no nutritional difference between the beef in a McDonalds Big Mac and a rib eye from a grass fed cow.

Why would you try to compare ground beef to ribeye? Make a fair comparison.

Ok, McDonald's ground beef to ground beef from a grass fed cow...

There would be no significant nutritional differences. There are some minor differences in the fat profile, but they're extremely minor and not worth worrying about.

bcattoes

So I can better understand, you believe there is no nutritional difference between the beef in a McDonalds Big Mac and a rib eye from a grass fed cow.

Why would you try to compare ground beef to ribeye? Make a fair comparison.

Ok, McDonald's ground beef to ground beef from a grass fed cow...

Pretty much (if the fat content is the same and the ground beef from the grass fed cow has been frozen) unless you can show me a peer reviewed study that says different.

http://www.nutritionj.com/content/9/1/10

WendyTerry420

haha.

it's an opinion.. people ask a question.. I believe X you believe Y. Both based off what we've read, and what we've experienced. I've never attacked an "unclean" eater.. other then to say grease laden food is unhealthy (which it is) and pop tarts are not health food (which they are not). There mere mention of "eat clean" elicits the sort of response you see in this thread.

It's like choosing a political party only in the nutrition world. Instead of Dem or Rep.. we have Clean and Unclean. And the truth is *most people* fall into a category somewhere in the middle, but will defend their position vehemently. lol.

I'm going to back to my popcorn now.. lol

Which is "unclean:" the Democrats or the Republicans?

Definitely both! :laugh:

paleojoe

So I can better understand, you believe there is no nutritional difference between the beef in a McDonalds Big Mac and a rib eye from a grass fed cow.

Why would you try to compare ground beef to ribeye? Make a fair comparison.

Ok, McDonald's ground beef to ground beef from a grass fed cow...

Pretty much (if the fat content is the same and the ground beef from the grass fed cow has been frozen) unless you can show me a peer reviewed study that says different.

http://www.nutritionj.com/content/9/1/10

Interesting... so if I am reading this right, on it's own it is "better" but in the context of the diet as a whole not significantly. Much like carbs and GI charts... in the context of a meal the whole GI deal goes out the window.

jonnythan

So I can better understand, you believe there is no nutritional difference between the beef in a McDonalds Big Mac and a rib eye from a grass fed cow.

Why would you try to compare ground beef to ribeye? Make a fair comparison.

Ok, McDonald's ground beef to ground beef from a grass fed cow...

Pretty much (if the fat content is the same and the ground beef from the grass fed cow has been frozen) unless you can show me a peer reviewed study that says different.

http://www.nutritionj.com/content/9/1/10

Exactly. The differences are negligible. The biggest thign people harp on ist he omega-3 to omega-6 ratio. The problem is that beef has virtually no omega-3 in it to begin with.

For example, Leheska et al. showed grass-fed cows had an n6/n3 ratio of 2.78 while grain-fed had an n6/n3 ratio of 13.6. Holy crap what a huge difference, right? However, when you look at the numbers a quarter-pound patty of grass-fed 90/10 ground beef would have 0.09 grams of omega-3 fatty acids while the grain-fed would have 0.02 grams. The grain-fed beef has like 80% less omega-3 but it's essentially 80% less than nothing.

That's the difference between statistically significant and clinically significant results. The differences are enough to statistically establish that there is a difference in the results, but no human being will experience any kind of health benefits from this difference.

Bry_Fitness70

If people say “I want to be strong”, “I want to be fit”, “I want to be attractive” on MFP, what does that mean? It has to be bullsh*t, right, because no one can clearly, scientifically, objectively define what being strong, fit, and attractive is? And yet these types of comments are posted all the time and don’t cause a sh*tstorm - no one calls these people smug and arrogant.

So why is “clean eating” found to be offensive while these other subjective goals are fine? Whenever a thread mentions it, the “anti-clean eaters” relentlessly dissect the definition until they find something that they can take offense to, and then go after the person.

If I say “I want to be fit”, the response could be, “what does that mean, brah?” Maybe fit means being able to run a marathon to me. “How arrogant, not everyone can run a marathon or wants to, do you think that only runners are fit, they are scientifically harmful, blah blah blah.” You can be offended by damn near everything.

Hearts_2015

I find "non-clean" eaters to act superior a lot of the time compared to clean. I see a lot of clean eaters trying to get other to hop on board because, yeah, less chimicals and fats and sugars is obviously going to be better for you in the long run.

But I see a hell of a lot more people who feel personally attacked by the simple suggestion of "eating clean" or a vegan diet, and the idea that it is, shockingly, more healthy for you than the standard western diet of processed foods.

I'd had a lot of people get on my *kitten* about trying to eat cleaner, or eliminate certain foods from my diet. Never have I once had a vegan or clean-eater look down on me for chowing down on a double cheeseburger.

well said, I agree

I haven't got 6K posts and years on this board, but I will say a couple of things:

Flaunting a McDonalds habit and love of poptarts flies in the face of everything most newbie (and old) dieters, as well as others, have learned or in the process of learning about diet,health, and nutrition. And that is exactly why it is done. But it is a knee jerk - in your face response that provokes. I get why. I get I the " I lost a million pounds eating Mickey D's, candy bars, and drinking pepsi" and it worked for me. But just as valid are those of us who eating snickers makes us feel like crap. Who believe that eating whole foods is better for our health - because we feel better eating that way. And I don't think either perspective is wrong. And, in fact, I think most folks on this board, talk a big twinkie and poptart, but in reality, don't do much of them either. They choose not to. Not because they are "bad" but because they don't fit their "macros." Choices. And my guess is that 99% of us do not stick to anything 100% of the time.

Healthy? Happy? Losing weight? Or gaining muscle? Feel good? Then it is all good. Who cares what anyone else thinks.

nicely said :flowerforyou:

jayrudq

I haven't got 6K posts and years on this board, but I will say a couple of things:

Flaunting a McDonalds habit and love of poptarts flies in the face of everything most newbie (and old) dieters, as well as others, have learned or in the process of learning about diet,health, and nutrition. And that is exactly why it is done. But it is a knee jerk - in your face response that provokes. I get why. I get I the " I lost a million pounds eating Mickey D's, candy bars, and drinking pepsi" and it worked for me. But just as valid are those of us who eating snickers makes us feel like crap. Who believe that eating whole foods is better for our health - because we feel better eating that way. And I don't think either perspective is wrong. And, in fact, I think most folks on this board, talk a big twinkie and poptart, but in reality, don't do much of them either. They choose not to. Not because they are "bad" but because they don't fit their "macros." Choices. And my guess is that 99% of us do not stick to anything 100% of the time.

Healthy? Happy? Losing weight? Or gaining muscle? Feel good? Then it is all good. Who cares what anyone else thinks.

Great post. I tried saying something similar, but you said it more eloquently. I have often wondered if some of us post with great fervor about what we eat about 20% of the time, while others post with gusto about what they eat 80% (or whatever percentage) of the time.
I too find that building my diet around whole foods makes me feel better. I eat snacks and the occasional meal that aren't nutritious as well, but don't consider those snacks the basis of my diet.

The way I see it, none of this has anything to do with how often anyone eats anything.

This entire argument is about whether certain foods are automatically bad. You warn of dangerous health consequences for people who eat "unclean" food, and I think those crazy scare tactics are not only wrong but horrendously counterproductive.

The fact you keep saying this over and over again does not make it true. I have never warned anyone of dangerous health consequences - the VAST majority of the people on this thread have not warned or scorned and most don't give a *kitten* about what other people eat. There will always be the outliers, the heretics, the fanatics, but to paint EVERYONE with the same brush is not only wrong, but horrendously counterproductive.

jonnythan

If people say “I want to be strong”, “I want to be fit”, “I want to be attractive” on MFP, what does that mean? It has to be bullsh*t, right, because no one can clearly, scientifically, objectively define what being strong, fit, and attractive is? And yet these types of comments are posted all the time and don’t cause a sh*tstorm - no one calls these people smug and arrogant.

Stroger is a measurable quantity. Fitter is a measurable quantity, depending on your metric (5k time, resting heart rate, VO2max, etc). Attractive... well, I don't know, but generally people mean lower body fat percentage and/or greater quantity of lean mass, which are both measurable (as are waist/hip ratio, pants size, etc).

"Clean" is not a measurable quantity.

The comparison here is invalid.

bf43005

Subscribed for the conversation.

OP, I agree with you. I don't believe you "have" to eat clean to be healthy, but it definitely can't hurt. It does make me feel better as well when I eat clean. That being said, it could just be psychological as I have lost most my weight eating rather dirty at times.

I just don't see how on earth it can be good to eat something that can live in a can for a year and not spoil.

But I make my own canned food that can last a year or more and not spoil using fresh ingredients. That doesn't make it not good for you. It means I treated the food so it doens't contain bacteria and then removed all the air until I'm ready to eat it.

jayrudq

Of course everything is made up of chemicals. So are we, and everything around us. What does that have to do with it?

jimmmer

If I say “I want to be fit”, the response could be, “what does that mean, brah?” Maybe fit means being able to run a marathon to me. “How arrogant, not everyone can run a marathon or wants to, do you think that only runners are fit, they are scientifically harmful, blah blah blah.” You can be offended by damn near everything.

I'm often offended by the use of fit around here. It's often equated to low bf%. Which is ridiculous. In fact, once you start reducing your bf below a certain percentage you'll find your performance suffers at a certain point.

Just for your future reference fit means "apt for a particular task". You can cash this out anyway you want: Marathons, sprints, downhill skiing, Powerlifting, Oly lifting, Cycling, Martial Arts, Canoeing, etc.... (the list goes on a bit and is seemingly endless).

waldo56

Of course everything is made up of chemicals. So are we, and everything around us. What does that have to do with it?

You don't associate much with other clean eaters, do you?

At the root of most clean eaters beliefs is some form of technophobia; the fear of chemicals, the fear of processing, mistrust of gov't safety standards, fear of corporations, mistrust in scientific consensus, etc...