Clean Eating Bashing?
Replies
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You are attributing his increased success to how much cleaner he supposedly ate. Do you not see the problem here?
No, I am attributing his success to dropping weight which was facilitated by improving the ratio of his "clean" foods to "junk" food, not eliminating anything.
If you wanted clarification on what I thought or it was unclear you could have just asked me.
Wait. He lost 10 lbs because he ate cleaner foods?
Huh?
There was a reason I put the terms clean and junk in quotation marks...
He spontaneously achieved a greater calorie deficit by changing his diet composition with no drastic measures in my opinion. Just ate a bit more fruit, veg etc and a little less of what is considered "junk".0 -
You are attributing his increased success to how much cleaner he supposedly ate. Do you not see the problem here?
No, I am attributing his success to dropping weight which was facilitated by improving the ratio of his "clean" foods to "junk" food, not eliminating anything.
If you wanted clarification on what I thought or it was unclear you could have just asked me.
Wait. He lost 10 lbs because he ate cleaner foods?
Huh?
There was a reason I put the terms clean and junk in quotation marks...
He spontaneously achieved a greater calorie deficit by changing his diet composition with no drastic measures in my opinion. Just ate a bit more fruit, veg etc and a little less of what is considered "junk".
You seem to be implying several different things, but failing to come out and say whatever it is you're thinking.
You said "there's a lesson in there." What's the lesson, to you? Specifically.0 -
you are convinced that it was "clean eating" that led to the improved results.
Am I?0 -
You said "there's a lesson in there." What's the lesson, to you? Specifically.
That you can achieve good results without drastic measures simply by eating a little less "junk" and a little more "clean" food and without the need to eliminate anything, even if you are performing at a high level and without the need to be meticulous in tracking food intake.
ETA: And this is exactly what I intend to do when I begin my own cycle training plan in the New Year
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Actually speaking of cyclists, Chris Horner springs to mind as an athlete who was notorious for fuelling his training on high amounts of "junk", staying lean and performing well. That is until a crash in 2009. Fearing his diet would accelerate weight gain he "cleaned" up his diet, dropped 10 lbs in the process and had one of his best ever seasons well into his late 30s.
Did he take any drastic steps? Not really. He just reduced his consumption of "junk" a bit and increased his consumption of "clean" foods in its place.
There's a lesson in that somewhere...
Dropping 10 lbs probably had nothing to do with it, and I'm sure his macro intake and training were identical before and after.
Dropping 10 lbs had nothing to do with it? How do you figure?
Sarcasm.
*WHOOSH* :blushing:0 -
It's the same "logic" that leads to testimonials for bogus supplements.
1. took supplement...let's call it "Bowgussup".
2. ate fewer calories (per the Bowgussup plan)
3. exercised more (also per the Bowgussup plan)
Person loses weight.
"Bowgussup worked great for me! I lost weight and I felt great! Everyone should try Bowgussup because it really works!"
*sigh*0 -
Haven't read the whole thing, but what the heck, I'll throw in an anecdote.
One of my good friends is really obsessed with clean eating and a Paleo lifestyle. She has a 4 year old daughter and feeds her this way as well. She spends a lot of time and energy obsessing over food, and finding reasons why certain foods are "bad". She is always picking fights with her daughter's school about snacks that they serve or that they allow other parents to bring in. She has forbidden the school from allowing her daughter to eat snacks brought by other parents unless they are "whole" foods.
The problem is, for herself, she lacks the willpower to stick to these restrictions 100%. She does not allow her child to "cheat" though. She feels really virtuous about this and is constantly bragging about her child's diet.
I suspect her daughter is not getting enough to eat. Children need a surprisingly large amount of calories to grow, and she is being fed her mother's weight loss diet. Not my business, she is taken to regular Dr.'s appointments and I will let them bring it up with her if it becomes a concern. It is still kinda sad to watch though. Her 4 year old weighs substantially less than my 2 year old (who is a bit tall for her age, but NOT overweight). She never plays. My kids will romp around at the park and play in the little creek and she will just stand by quietly and watch. She is this tiny, scrawny little thing with dark circles under her eyes.
"Clean eating" really isn't well defined. If we were to call it "Learn to love whole foods/nutrient dense foods and incorporate them into a balanced diet" there would not be a problem. But, "Clean Eating", however it is defined, tends to be based on foods that are AVOIDED not which foods are included. This is not a recipe for a healthy relationship with food, and, taken to extremes, can actually result in under nourishment.0 -
When I started eating super-clean-paleo at the beginning of 2012, I weighed 152. When I stopped eating super-clean-paleo in 2012, I weighed 174 pounds. Currently, after all of 2013 eating whatever I wanted (while still sometimes hitting my macros, or at least hitting my minimums for protein and fat), I weigh 170.
To summarize, I gained 22 pounds in one year eating "clean". I lost 4 pounds in almost a year eating "everything".
Should I spread the word that eating "clean" resulted in weight gain and that eating "everything" resulted in weight loss? Of course not. Instead, I spread the word that I gained weight in 2012 because I ate at a calorie surplus. I lost weight in 2013 because I ate right around maintenance.
Eating "clean" is great...it's delicious (or it can be when done right)...but it isn't magical. Proponents of it would likely be more effective in spreading the good news of clean eating if they stuck to claims that have support.0 -
Haven't read the whole thing, but what the heck, I'll throw in an anecdote.
One of my good friends is really obsessed with clean eating and a Paleo lifestyle. She has a 4 year old daughter and feeds her this way as well. She spends a lot of time and energy obsessing over food, and finding reasons why certain foods are "bad". She is always picking fights with her daughter's school about snacks that they serve or that they allow other parents to bring in. She has forbidden the school from allowing her daughter to eat snacks brought by other parents unless they are "whole" foods.
The problem is, for herself, she lacks the willpower to stick to these restrictions 100%. She does not allow her child to "cheat" though. She feels really virtuous about this and is constantly bragging about her child's diet.
I suspect her daughter is not getting enough to eat. Children need a surprisingly large amount of calories to grow, and she is being fed her mother's weight loss diet. Not my business, she is taken to regular Dr.'s appointments and I will let them bring it up with her if it becomes a concern. It is still kinda sad to watch though. Her 4 year old weighs substantially less than my 2 year old (who is a bit tall for her age, but NOT overweight). She never plays. My kids will romp around at the park and play in the little creek and she will just stand by quietly and watch. She is this tiny, scrawny little thing with dark circles under her eyes.
"Clean eating" really isn't well defined. If we were to call it "Learn to love whole foods/nutrient dense foods and incorporate them into a balanced diet" there would not be a problem. But, "Clean Eating", however it is defined, tends to be based on foods that are AVOIDED not which foods are included. This is not a recipe for a healthy relationship with food, and, taken to extremes, can actually result in under nourishment.
WTF. That is horrible! Makes me feel quite ragey in fact. :mad:0 -
But I don't label food clean or dirty.
Then why are you so personally offended about all this clean eating stuff as if you were one of the clean eaters who bash non-clean-eaters?
You think I am personally offended? I had no idea you were so sensitive. I am not offended. I am engaging in a discussion, that for the most part has been fairly intelligent and interesting on a cold dark Wednesday. No bashing here, just some good fun.
How does you being offended count as me being sensitive? :laugh:
You have been consistently taking offense at the things we say about clean eaters. Now you say you aren't one.
Well, you would have to be a very sensitive person to consider read into my responses that I am offended. I think I have been expressing my POV, which is mine, and mine alone. I have never said I eat "clean." I have said I know what works for me - many times over. And, that does not include a lot of Subway. Personal choice.0 -
To answer your question, I eat subway. Not often, but my kid loves them. If I ate them all the time, I would be fat. Period - so, I don't. Do I consider them a clean food? Yes and no. But I don't label food clean or dirty. Food either works for me or doesn't. But, I think most people see them as a compromise fast food. Not deep fried, not a veggie burger either. Again, I am not an absolutist. And so called "clean" eaters are not monoliths.
Dammit you sound completely reasonable.
I hate it when that happens. :grumble:
:laugh: :flowerforyou:
Really I didn't think so.
The comment " if I ate there all the time I would be fat period" is completely false. I could eat there for a year and lose weight, it would all depend on how much you ate.
Eating all the time at subway doesn't / wouldn't make you fat. Eating more calories than you burn makes you fat.
1)How do you know what makes me fat or doesn't? 2)Did I say everyone? 3)Did I say you, in particular? 4)I said IF I ATE there more often I would be fat. Self knowledge. I know exactly what made me fat.
I've added numbers to make my answering you easier.
1) - excess calories makes you fat - so yes I know, science.
2) - I didn't say you said everyone, but my statement that it doesn't make anyone fat still stands - it's not the food but the amount.
3) - I just used myself as an example of how your statement was false. Would you prefer - "you could eat there every day for a year and as long as you ate at your maintenance calories you wouldn't get fat"?
4) again - excess calories made you fat, not subway or any other food.
You seem very sensitive about my reply. :huh:
Ha! I know that excess calories made me fat. In fact there is no food that makes people fat in and of itself. Ireally do understand science. I could eat there for a year everyday also, but I would not eat at maintenance if I did so. I know that about myself. It is the self-knowledge that drives my food choices. So yes, it is all about me. Not anyone else. And I am pretty sure I didn't say anything but that. But thank you for clarifying. Serious.0 -
Okay, I surrender. We are all a**holes running around telling people what to do, what they do wrong and judging everyone else. You should hate and despise us. In fact, I am, at this moment, so full of self-loathing I am going to go do a body scrub, after an enema and body detox cleanse and eat my weight in Kale. And I will lose weight and reduce my chances of getting cancer, heart disease, and getting laid in the mean time.
Hey, I have an idea! Why don't you recognize the VAST majority of people who are doing the EXACT opposite? If you look over this thread and part one, the majority of the bashing is targeted at those meanie clean eaters. You are always going to find what you are looking for if that is all you do.
Edit: And the yelling - so.not.cool.
Just reposting.0 -
Haven't read the whole thing, but what the heck, I'll throw in an anecdote.
One of my good friends is really obsessed with clean eating and a Paleo lifestyle. She has a 4 year old daughter and feeds her this way as well. She spends a lot of time and energy obsessing over food, and finding reasons why certain foods are "bad". She is always picking fights with her daughter's school about snacks that they serve or that they allow other parents to bring in. She has forbidden the school from allowing her daughter to eat snacks brought by other parents unless they are "whole" foods.
The problem is, for herself, she lacks the willpower to stick to these restrictions 100%. She does not allow her child to "cheat" though. She feels really virtuous about this and is constantly bragging about her child's diet.
I suspect her daughter is not getting enough to eat. Children need a surprisingly large amount of calories to grow, and she is being fed her mother's weight loss diet. Not my business, she is taken to regular Dr.'s appointments and I will let them bring it up with her if it becomes a concern. It is still kinda sad to watch though. Her 4 year old weighs substantially less than my 2 year old (who is a bit tall for her age, but NOT overweight). She never plays. My kids will romp around at the park and play in the little creek and she will just stand by quietly and watch. She is this tiny, scrawny little thing with dark circles under her eyes.
"Clean eating" really isn't well defined. If we were to call it "Learn to love whole foods/nutrient dense foods and incorporate them into a balanced diet" there would not be a problem. But, "Clean Eating", however it is defined, tends to be based on foods that are AVOIDED not which foods are included. This is not a recipe for a healthy relationship with food, and, taken to extremes, can actually result in under nourishment.
My Mom was like this but this was back in the after-vietnam lost generation 70's...no sugar (fructose and honey were fine), no white wheat, no chocolate. We had to bring in funky date carrot cakes to school while the other kids laughed and got their "normal" food. OK to be fair my Mom was trying her best with what little knowledge she had, but that mentality bad food/good food is the worse thing you can teach a kid. The funny thing about teenagers is they rebel, and the minute I had a little spending money I discovered food. As you can see it did great in helping my weight and special relationship with food. I went from a skinny kid to an obese teen.0 -
WTF. That is horrible! Makes me feel quite ragey in fact. :mad:
It's heartbreaking. I'd bring it up to her, but I know she would not listen to me (I'm not in the medical field). I'm just glad she sees the Dr. regularly.0 -
Pop tarts are not healthy..
ORLY?
No idea if they are healthy or not. But they are certainly terrible by pastry standards, even for packaged ones. At least step up to a toaster strudel0 -
Okay, I surrender. We are all a**holes running around telling people what to do, what they do wrong and judging everyone else. You should hate and despise us. In fact, I am, at this moment, so full of self-loathing I am going to go do a body scrub, after an enema and body detox cleanse and eat my weight in Kale. And I will lose weight and reduce my chances of getting cancer, heart disease, and getting laid in the mean time.
Hey, I have an idea! Why don't you recognize the VAST majority of people who are doing the EXACT opposite? If you look over this thread and part one, the majority of the bashing is targeted at those meanie clean eaters. You are always going to find what you are looking for if that is all you do.
Edit: And the yelling - so.not.cool.
Just reposting.
Thanks. I was feeling kinda bad that no one got my sarcasm. I do love coffee. Just not anally.0 -
Pop tarts are not healthy..
ORLY?
No idea if they are healthy or not. But they are certainly terrible by pastry standards, even for packaged ones. At least step up to a toaster strudel
Pop Tarts aren't that great by themselves. A scoop or two of ice cream makes them really come alive, though.0 -
Haven't read the whole thing, but what the heck, I'll throw in an anecdote.
One of my good friends is really obsessed with clean eating and a Paleo lifestyle. She has a 4 year old daughter and feeds her this way as well. She spends a lot of time and energy obsessing over food, and finding reasons why certain foods are "bad". She is always picking fights with her daughter's school about snacks that they serve or that they allow other parents to bring in. She has forbidden the school from allowing her daughter to eat snacks brought by other parents unless they are "whole" foods.
The problem is, for herself, she lacks the willpower to stick to these restrictions 100%. She does not allow her child to "cheat" though. She feels really virtuous about this and is constantly bragging about her child's diet.
I suspect her daughter is not getting enough to eat. Children need a surprisingly large amount of calories to grow, and she is being fed her mother's weight loss diet. Not my business, she is taken to regular Dr.'s appointments and I will let them bring it up with her if it becomes a concern. It is still kinda sad to watch though. Her 4 year old weighs substantially less than my 2 year old (who is a bit tall for her age, but NOT overweight). She never plays. My kids will romp around at the park and play in the little creek and she will just stand by quietly and watch. She is this tiny, scrawny little thing with dark circles under her eyes.
"Clean eating" really isn't well defined. If we were to call it "Learn to love whole foods/nutrient dense foods and incorporate them into a balanced diet" there would not be a problem. But, "Clean Eating", however it is defined, tends to be based on foods that are AVOIDED not which foods are included. This is not a recipe for a healthy relationship with food, and, taken to extremes, can actually result in under nourishment.
My Mom was like this but this was back in the after-vietnam lost generation 70's...no sugar (fructose and honey were fine), no white wheat, no chocolate. We had to bring in funky date carrot cakes to school while the other kids laughed and got their "normal" food. OK to be fair my Mom was trying her best with what little knowledge she had, but that mentality bad food/good food is the worse thing you can teach a kid. The funny thing about teenagers is they rebel, and the minute I had a little spending money I discovered food. As you can see it did great in helping my weight and special relationship with food. I went from a skinny kid to an obese teen.
Hear, hear. I grew up with a diabetic in the family. And a father who was a compulsive eater. We had NO food in our house. I used to have to hide food. And that wasn't particularly successful. But, funny enough, they were both overweight. While I know what I can and can't eat to maintain a healthy weight, I don't ever want to burden my child with my bad eating habits or hang ups. And I humbly and sincerely hope I succeed.0 -
dang nabbit0
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I'm not sure what clean food is. Does it mean that it is completely organic? I also am unsure what junk food is. Is it food that has more calories than nutrition? I just finished a small bag of m&m's. I needed more calories for my day, and was too lazy to fix myself something else to eat. Am I going to die from them? I had satisfied my protein and fiber requirements for the day. So does it really matter??0
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I love love love Pop Tarts!!!Pop tarts are not healthy..
ORLY?
No idea if they are healthy or not. But they are certainly terrible by pastry standards, even for packaged ones. At least step up to a toaster strudel0 -
No-one does reallyI'm not sure what clean food is.
Depends who you askDoes it mean that it is completely organic?
Me neither, but it is commonly called garbageI also am unsure what junk food is. Is it food that has more calories than nutrition?
TotesI just finished a small bag of m&m's. I needed more calories for my day, and was too lazy to fix myself something else to eat. Am I going to die from them?
Depends on who you ask. If it were me, I would say, that assuming you got some nutrient dense foods in for the most part ...then no. Others would say yes, it would all turn to fat immediately and that you are doing lasting damage with all the toxinzzzz. Luckily, science does not support those claims.I had satisfied my protein and fiber requirements for the day. So does it really matter??
Edited to fix quotes0 -
This thread makes me crave a candy bar............
I was thinking of these with all the hazelnut talk:
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Lets take a fitness approach....would an athlete training for an event....Lets say Michael Phelps (or anyone you choose) be better eating a so called "clean diet" or would he just train eating a not so clean diet (fast food)? Just want to see everyones opinions:)
Michael Phelps would probably fill his nutritional needs with 'clean' and 'unclean' foods. His caloric needs are too high to do it on chicken breasts and broccoli alone...
Read here:
http://www.michaelphelps.net/michael-phelps-diet/0 -
The best way to eat is INDIVIDUAL. Each person should find what best works to keep them healthy, happy and at peace with themselves . It is a journey and it is not necessary to be part of any particular group thinking to find it. Perfection is a difficult path to maintain, and superiority over others a shallow reward.0
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Pop tarts are not healthy..
ORLY?
No idea if they are healthy or not. But they are certainly terrible by pastry standards, even for packaged ones. At least step up to a toaster strudel
I don't even think of them as "pastries" at all. They are more like filled cookies, to me. I will toast them, then dunk them in milk like a cookie.0 -
So, would a cow with pneumonia qualify as "unhealthy food?"
I laughed way to hard at this! :laugh:
thats the best definition of healthy food I've seen...applause applause
Thank goodness a couple of folks got the joke! :drinker:0 -
WTF. That is horrible! Makes me feel quite ragey in fact. :mad:
It's heartbreaking. I'd bring it up to her, but I know she would not listen to me (I'm not in the medical field). I'm just glad she sees the Dr. regularly.
You can always contact child protection services. They are very discrete.0 -
Hear, hear. I grew up with a diabetic in the family. And a father who was a compulsive eater. We had NO food in our house. I used to have to hide food. And that wasn't particularly successful. But, funny enough, they were both overweight. While I know what I can and can't eat to maintain a healthy weight, I don't ever want to burden my child with my bad eating habits or hang ups. And I humbly and sincerely hope I succeed.
I too hope that I am conveying a normal relationship to food to my daughter. I think it's working... 0 -
WTF. That is horrible! Makes me feel quite ragey in fact. :mad:
It's heartbreaking. I'd bring it up to her, but I know she would not listen to me (I'm not in the medical field). I'm just glad she sees the Dr. regularly.
You can always contact child protection services. They are very discrete.
^^ Worst advice in the history of MFP0
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