My Pointless Soapbox
thickerella
Posts: 154 Member
I just left a thread on a popular social networking site where an opinion was expressed about how fat people should be forced to pay extra any time they use any sort of transportation other than their own cars. There was a lot of supporters, many who expressed their thought that obese people are disgusting, ugly, smelly, and essentially wastes of flesh.
It's not an uncommon opinion. I can't think of any social networking site I have participated on where bashing people for being over-weight was not a "thing."
Here, I find a different kind of thread. People are called stupid for eating too few calories, rushing to lose weight, etc.
People who bash the fatties dress up their hatred in pretty clothes, claiming that they are offering "tough love" or just expressing their opinion. The same goes here for those who bash the extreme dieters.
It's impossible to win.
I've known this for years. I've known that there is no point arguing, there is no point in pointing out that a person is being hurtful because:
This is the internet
If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen
People are *kitten*, get over it
This, my friends, is a cop out. It is a way to justify letting out anger, disgust, frustration, and loathing on someone who has not done anything to truly deserve it, and to do so without consequence.
And you know what? It fracking sucks. A person driven by all the hurt and self-loathing generated by how they are treated because they are fat to lose weight, signs up for a site in the hopes that they can finally obtain that ideal standard of fitness and beauty, and when try, they actually TRY to do something to change themselves, they can't catch a break. They still get caught up in the same vicious criticism that drove them to lose weight.
I am not suggesting that it is a bad thing to redirect people who are using unhealthy methods to lose weight. People need guidance. However, in my entirely pointless plea, I am going to request that before you hit "post" on your next comment, you take a moment to THINK about what you're saying. Think about all the shame and pain a person has to be carrying around already to drive them to try living on 500 calories a day. Are you REALLY trying to "help" when you call someone an idiot, or tell them that their choices are stupid?
By the way, this is not a response to anything anyone has said to me personally. First, no one has ever said anything unkind to me on this site, although I see unkind things said daily to other people. Second, everyone can feel free to bash me if they need to get it out of their system. I already know I am fracked up, I make crap decisions daily, and no one could possibly say anything to me that could add to the pile of self-loathing I've made for myself.
Anyway, the TL;DR here is simple:
Be a decent human being to the people around you, regardless of how you encounter them. Please.
It's not an uncommon opinion. I can't think of any social networking site I have participated on where bashing people for being over-weight was not a "thing."
Here, I find a different kind of thread. People are called stupid for eating too few calories, rushing to lose weight, etc.
People who bash the fatties dress up their hatred in pretty clothes, claiming that they are offering "tough love" or just expressing their opinion. The same goes here for those who bash the extreme dieters.
It's impossible to win.
I've known this for years. I've known that there is no point arguing, there is no point in pointing out that a person is being hurtful because:
This is the internet
If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen
People are *kitten*, get over it
This, my friends, is a cop out. It is a way to justify letting out anger, disgust, frustration, and loathing on someone who has not done anything to truly deserve it, and to do so without consequence.
And you know what? It fracking sucks. A person driven by all the hurt and self-loathing generated by how they are treated because they are fat to lose weight, signs up for a site in the hopes that they can finally obtain that ideal standard of fitness and beauty, and when try, they actually TRY to do something to change themselves, they can't catch a break. They still get caught up in the same vicious criticism that drove them to lose weight.
I am not suggesting that it is a bad thing to redirect people who are using unhealthy methods to lose weight. People need guidance. However, in my entirely pointless plea, I am going to request that before you hit "post" on your next comment, you take a moment to THINK about what you're saying. Think about all the shame and pain a person has to be carrying around already to drive them to try living on 500 calories a day. Are you REALLY trying to "help" when you call someone an idiot, or tell them that their choices are stupid?
By the way, this is not a response to anything anyone has said to me personally. First, no one has ever said anything unkind to me on this site, although I see unkind things said daily to other people. Second, everyone can feel free to bash me if they need to get it out of their system. I already know I am fracked up, I make crap decisions daily, and no one could possibly say anything to me that could add to the pile of self-loathing I've made for myself.
Anyway, the TL;DR here is simple:
Be a decent human being to the people around you, regardless of how you encounter them. Please.
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Replies
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I didn't actually read that...I skimmed it looking for key words...
...and found enough to know that I'm...
In...
...for where this thread is going.0 -
I'm too high to read that but it sounds juicy. cliffs anyone?0
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Good lord, people. There's a TL;DR at the bottom.0
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I'm too high to read that but it sounds juicy. cliffs anyone?
Cliff notes: Stop being mean!0 -
k0
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I didn't actually read that...I skimmed it looking for key words...
...and found enough to know that I'm...
In...
...for where this thread is going.
This. Totally in.0 -
Your progress ticker always makes me think of hot dogs:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2405133/Hot-legs-hot-dogs-Its-internets-daftest-craze.html0 -
In for the lulz
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Honestly, I have tried to refute your argument a few times now but keep stumbling. I think that you are, for the most part, correct. I have even tried to "soften my tone" when offering people advice on the forums and avoiding being overly critical. Except in the cases of someone who is promoting an unsafe method to another or telling another that X is the only way to do Y.
However, you have to understand the frustration that comes along with helping people on MFP. A small group of people here try to promote ways of eating that are backed by science and are constantly trying to educate those who are ignorant of nutrition. Because they are going against the "common wisdom" of dieting, they get a lot of unwarranted angst from people who call them rude, haters, and various other nasty names. Also, the same threads are posted over and over again, multiple times per day, with few users actually paying attention to the thread three lines down and instead posting an identical thread above it. And this is despite several excellent stickied threads that would have answered their questions.
It is frustrating, to say the least, to have to keep repeating the same information and refuting the same information over and over again to a user base who, largely, does not appreciate it or pass on what they have learned.0 -
Oh.0
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Your progress ticker always makes me think of hot dogs:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2405133/Hot-legs-hot-dogs-Its-internets-daftest-craze.html
The left leg looks quite hot dog-esque, but I feel the right one just looks like a leg.0 -
Have you had much success with this method of bending people to your will?0
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A person driven by all the hurt and self-loathing generated by how they are treated because they are fat to lose weight, signs up for a site in the hopes that they can finally obtain that ideal standard of fitness and beauty, and when try, they actually TRY to do something to change themselves, they can't catch a break. They still get caught up in the same vicious criticism that drove them to lose weight.
The mistaken assumption behind your post is that you think the world cares about your weight as a separate thing. We only care about your weight as it pertains to your health and fitness. Carrying too high a body fat percentage is unhealthy and likely to shorten your life. Losing weight too quickly is unhealthy and likely to shorten your life. We just want you to be healthy and stick around with us longer. This may include losing weight, but primarily it involves eating healthy foods in proper amounts and being more active. The weight loss ought to be a symptom of the change in behavior. NOT the primary focus. The primary focus should be that you feel better, that your doctor says good things about your cholesterol and insulin levels, that you can still run around with your kids/grand kids when you are in your 60s.
Forget weight loss. Start focusing on being healthier, lifting more,eating better, running faster, feeling firmer, etc...
We don't care what your scale says about you. We just love you and want you to be here with us and healthy for as long as possible!0 -
In...
...for the distinct possibility of entertainment.0 -
It is frustrating, to say the least, to have to keep repeating the same information and refuting the same information over and over again to a user base who, largely, does not appreciate it or pass on what they have learned.
Right. And the most frustrating is when someone asks for thoughts and opinions, people tell them something they don't want to hear, and then they go all psycho.
"I want to do the master cleanse....what do you guys think? "
"It's dangerous, and you'll gain all of the weight back that you lose when you're done"
"I thought this site was here for support!?! If you don't have anything good to say, don't say anything!!"
Uuugh......0 -
Honestly, I have tried to refute your argument a few times now but keep stumbling. I think that you are, for the most part, correct. I have even tried to "soften my tone" when offering people advice on the forums and avoiding being overly critical. Except in the cases of someone who is promoting an unsafe method to another or telling another that X is the only way to do Y.
However, you have to understand the frustration that comes along with helping people on MFP. A small group of people here try to promote ways of eating that are backed by science and are constantly trying to educate those who are ignorant of nutrition. Because they are going against the "common wisdom" of dieting, they get a lot of unwarranted angst from people who call them rude, haters, and various other nasty names. Also, the same threads are posted over and over again, multiple times per day, with few users actually paying attention to the thread three lines down and instead posting an identical thread above it. And this is despite several excellent stickied threads that would have answered their questions.
It is frustrating, to say the least, to have to keep repeating the same information and refuting the same information over and over again to a user base who, largely, does not appreciate it or pass on what they have learned.
I can understand that. I also get that using harsher language can be quite effective at getting someone's attention. While it is frustrating to answer the same questions over and over again (I used to be in tech support, dude, I KNOW) it doesn't mean that the 100th person doesn't deserve the same level of compassion that person 1 received.
I also know I'm wasting my breath (typing?). Shaking a finger at people admonishing them to be nice has probably never worked once in the history of ever.
...but even if you can't win, it doesn't mean it's not worth trying, right?0 -
The mistaken assumption behind your post is that you think the world cares about your weight as a separate thing. We only care about your weight as it pertains to your health and fitness. Carrying too high a body fat percentage is unhealthy and likely to shorten your life. Losing weight too quickly is unhealthy and likely to shorten your life. We just want you to be healthy and stick around with us longer. This may include losing weight, but primarily it involves eating healthy foods in proper amounts and being more active. The weight loss ought to be a symptom of the change in behavior. NOT the primary focus. The primary focus should be that you feel better, that your doctor says good things about your cholesterol and insulin levels, that you can still run around with your kids/grand kids when you are in your 60s.
Forget weight loss. Start focusing on being healthier, lifting more,eating better, running faster, feeling firmer, etc...
We don't care what your scale says about you. We just love you and want you to be here with us and healthy for as long as possible!
That's a nice sentiment. Thanks!0 -
Good lord, people. There's a TL;DR at the bottom.
My time on MFP has taught me that...
...the TL;DRs don't fully capture the full range of emotion in the page+ of rambling narrative.0 -
Good lord, people. There's a TL;DR at the bottom.
My time on MFP has taught me that...
...the TL;DRs don't fully capture the full range of emotion in the page+ of rambling narrative.
Of course not, but if you want the meat of it, ya gotta dig in.0 -
I think I have seen this before...
People need to learn a few things.
1) Science is better then some random person on TV or on Youtube
2) Use Search
3) This site is not for those who want to do stupid and dangerous diets
What gets people upset is that you see the same BS stuff over and over and over and over. It gets tiring. It also gets tiring to type up a polite, concise, and scientifically backed post only to then get called a bully, mean, or stupid. It just gets to the point where people give up trying to help because of the BS that is thrown back at them... including posts much like this one.0 -
Honestly, I have tried to refute your argument a few times now but keep stumbling. I think that you are, for the most part, correct. I have even tried to "soften my tone" when offering people advice on the forums and avoiding being overly critical. Except in the cases of someone who is promoting an unsafe method to another or telling another that X is the only way to do Y.
However, you have to understand the frustration that comes along with helping people on MFP. A small group of people here try to promote ways of eating that are backed by science and are constantly trying to educate those who are ignorant of nutrition. Because they are going against the "common wisdom" of dieting, they get a lot of unwarranted angst from people who call them rude, haters, and various other nasty names. Also, the same threads are posted over and over again, multiple times per day, with few users actually paying attention to the thread three lines down and instead posting an identical thread above it. And this is despite several excellent stickied threads that would have answered their questions.
It is frustrating, to say the least, to have to keep repeating the same information and refuting the same information over and over again to a user base who, largely, does not appreciate it or pass on what they have learned.
Well....^that was rude.
Bully.
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Honestly, I have tried to refute your argument a few times now but keep stumbling. I think that you are, for the most part, correct. I have even tried to "soften my tone" when offering people advice on the forums and avoiding being overly critical. Except in the cases of someone who is promoting an unsafe method to another or telling another that X is the only way to do Y.
However, you have to understand the frustration that comes along with helping people on MFP. A small group of people here try to promote ways of eating that are backed by science and are constantly trying to educate those who are ignorant of nutrition. Because they are going against the "common wisdom" of dieting, they get a lot of unwarranted angst from people who call them rude, haters, and various other nasty names. Also, the same threads are posted over and over again, multiple times per day, with few users actually paying attention to the thread three lines down and instead posting an identical thread above it. And this is despite several excellent stickied threads that would have answered their questions.
It is frustrating, to say the least, to have to keep repeating the same information and refuting the same information over and over again to a user base who, largely, does not appreciate it or pass on what they have learned.
Well....^that was rude.
Bully.
And if someone actually says that in earnest, I wouldn't be even the least bit shocked.0 -
Have you had much success with this method of bending people to your will?
None at all. I knew it was pointless when I started, that's why I labeled it pointless.
However, if I suddenly started to grow some charisma and ability to influence people, I'd probably just use it for evil. Like convincing Spain that they should send me a pound of Manchego every month for free.
You hear me Spain!? I DEMAND CHEESE!0 -
Honestly, I have tried to refute your argument a few times now but keep stumbling. I think that you are, for the most part, correct. I have even tried to "soften my tone" when offering people advice on the forums and avoiding being overly critical. Except in the cases of someone who is promoting an unsafe method to another or telling another that X is the only way to do Y.
However, you have to understand the frustration that comes along with helping people on MFP. A small group of people here try to promote ways of eating that are backed by science and are constantly trying to educate those who are ignorant of nutrition. Because they are going against the "common wisdom" of dieting, they get a lot of unwarranted angst from people who call them rude, haters, and various other nasty names. Also, the same threads are posted over and over again, multiple times per day, with few users actually paying attention to the thread three lines down and instead posting an identical thread above it. And this is despite several excellent stickied threads that would have answered their questions.
It is frustrating, to say the least, to have to keep repeating the same information and refuting the same information over and over again to a user base who, largely, does not appreciate it or pass on what they have learned.
Well....^that was rude.
Bully.
You need to be more supportive of my journey.0 -
This is the internet
If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen
People are *kitten*, get over it
This, my friends, is a cop out. It is a way to justify letting out anger, disgust, frustration, and loathing on someone who has not done anything to truly deserve it, and to do so without consequence.
:drinker: well said0 -
Most of an OP states some ridiculous fad diet they are going to do hoping that others will be doing the same ridiculous fad diet and bolster them up with how great it is. They get told that the ridiculous fad diet is a ridiculous fad diet and they get all bent out of shape because this site is for support and we're being mean. It usually breaks down from there. It isn't very often that the "meanies" come out until the OP starts trying to defend the ridiculous fad diet.
As for what brought you to this revelation in the first place, I to some extent agree with the other group you were in. Until you've spent 7 hours on an airplane with a huge man beside you that overflows into your seat you really can't appreciate that someone of that size should have been made to pay for the 1.5 seats he was taking up. I can add that he also smelled bad. The fact that you've allowed yourself to get too big to fit into average sized transportation doesn't mean the rest of the world has to make allowances for you. I'll admit I'm one of those meanies.0 -
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Why do people put the TLDR at the bottom? It should be at the top.Good lord, people. There's a TL;DR at the bottom.0 -
This is my feeling on the subject. I don't post a lot, but I've been here more than 2 years and I've seen this scenario play out more times than I can count. A big thing that really annoys me is that people will post a topic with a half a$$ed, dangerous, scientifically debunked plan of losing 20lbs in 3 weeks or something and then say something like "supportive answers only! No negativity!" Or "I know it's not a good idea to eat 1000 calories of celery sticks and do 5 hours on the treadmill daily, but maybe it'll work for ME! What do you guys think?"
Support =/= hand holding, coddling, or enabling.
Support =/= a yes man who tell you what you want to hear regardless of whether it's true or not.
I never said that people who are doing unhealthy things should NOT be offered guidance, or that it is a bad thing to suggest another way.
Quite the opposite, you SHOULD tell people when they are choosing the bad path. Pulling someone out of the path of a speeding car (even if they, themselves, are the driver) is the MOST caring thing you can do for someone.
I just believe it is possible to do that without being intentionally cruel....and maybe they won't get out of the way of that speeding car, but while you may think they're stupid for standing in front of it, just keep in mind that it took a whole lot of pain to put them there in the first place. Adding to that isn't going to help.0 -
Why do people put the TLDR at the bottom? It should be at the top.Good lord, people. There's a TL;DR at the bottom.
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