My Pointless Soapbox
Replies
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I think most will agree that the Net (like most things) sinks to the lowest common denominator, and that anonymity, coupled with groupthink, leads to some fairly unfavorable results.
The point of the OP appears to be that overweight individuals should be excluded from this (i.e. not be treated like everyone else), because of all the "self loathing" (or whatever) and what they've had to put up with.
I guess I just don't understand how the sympathy is warranted. I gained weight, didn't like what I saw, and then lost the weight. I didn't hope for some voodoo cure, and didn't expect to lose it in a month. I cut down on what I ate, and increased my exercise. It worked surprisingly well.
I guess I'm lucky (it must be my metabolism). Or perhaps it's just that I understand that choices people make have consequences.
The number of individuals that are overweight as a result of circumstances beyond their control are statistically insignificant (if they even exist). Please don't make inappropriate life decisions, and they try to claim foul when you're treated no differently than anyone else out there.
I believe what I said was: Be a decent human being to the people around you, regardless of how you encounter them. Please.
That is an all-inclusive statement. Be kind to your fellow human beings.
In my bid for compassion I gave examples of how pain would drive someone to try to lose weight and how being overly critical to the point of being abusive is piling on someone who hasn't done anything to deserve it.
Am I really wrong in this?0 -
cliff notes:
stop fat bashing..
the internet is mean ..
and if you call someone out for starvation diet you are being mean and inconsiderate...
and in...for the meanies..
Your cliff notes are inaccurate. In my original post AND in several follow up posts I encouraged people to offer guidance to those who are making unhealthy choices. Calling someone out is not the same thing as calling someone names, the latter of which is what I am protesting.
I want to see the posts where someone who is not being a jerk and saying your advice is not what I wanted to hear is called a name...just one post will do.
I went for a blog I saw recently because it was easier to pick from my history:
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/Shiels1988/view/cleanse-595748
Don't be dumb. Seriously. Don't.
Some people really like to be miserable.
These comments came BEFORE the original poster started to be defensive.
So, I ask seriously, HOW is this being helpful? Offering advice? Trying to steer someone in the right direction? THIS is fairly mild compared to some of the other things I've seen on this site. The thing is, IT IS NOT HELPFUL. Once you call someone "dumb" they're not going to listen to anything else you have to say.
Seriously? I read enough comments to make me think - hey wait a minute: Maybe I am being dumb. Maybe I am clinging to old dieting habits - just HOPING that a miracle will happen and I'll be at goal weight in a few months. When I started reading all the comments on MFP - I began to examine my own goals and realized that I WAS being dumb. You know the saying, "doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results"? I was stuck there. Stuck in "being miserable".
I got a wake up call by reading comments like these on MFP. It worked for me. I started listening, reading, and learning. Learning from the same people that were fed up with people going down the wrong road over and over. Check out my ticker. I'm feeing pretty good about myself now.0 -
and if you call someone out for starvation diet you are being mean and inconsiderate...
In other words, eat more.....Generally speaking, if a person isn't losing weight, telling them to "eat moar calories" is not the answer, and yet that's the advice I see most often. Sometimes I think people just come here for permission to eat more, and others come to enable them. When "I'm not losing weight" is followed by "should I be eating more?", it's not hard to see what's really going on with the person.
In other words, eat less...
And people wonder why there is so much snark and debate around here? These conflicting viewpoints were on just one page, within a few posts of each other. Wash, rinse, and repeat through the entire forum, and it's easy to understand where confusion and bickering about which method is correct can come from.
As for me, I'm thankful for the people who introduced me to the idea that I was eating far too little. It was that feedback that allowed me to take a step back, realize there was merit to what was being said, and now I'm happily eating more and making progress towards my goal to a slimmer me. Oddly enough, those 'eat more' posts were never demeaning. On the other hand, the responses others made to those folks were extremely confrontational, filled with snark, name calling, and all the other typical BS that floats around this place. And that tide changes with the wind apparently. You never really know what group is going to pounce. And god forbid you ask that only people using the same approach respond, an in effort to keep the bickering out of your thread. That's just asking for it.0 -
cliff notes:
stop fat bashing..
the internet is mean ..
and if you call someone out for starvation diet you are being mean and inconsiderate...
and in...for the meanies..
Your cliff notes are inaccurate. In my original post AND in several follow up posts I encouraged people to offer guidance to those who are making unhealthy choices. Calling someone out is not the same thing as calling someone names, the latter of which is what I am protesting.
I want to see the posts where someone who is not being a jerk and saying your advice is not what I wanted to hear is called a name...just one post will do.
I went for a blog I saw recently because it was easier to pick from my history:
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/Shiels1988/view/cleanse-595748
Don't be dumb. Seriously. Don't.
Some people really like to be miserable.
These comments came BEFORE the original poster started to be defensive.
So, I ask seriously, HOW is this being helpful? Offering advice? Trying to steer someone in the right direction? THIS is fairly mild compared to some of the other things I've seen on this site. The thing is, IT IS NOT HELPFUL. Once you call someone "dumb" they're not going to listen to anything else you have to say.
Seriously? I read enough comments to make me think - hey wait a minute: Maybe I am being dumb. Maybe I am clinging to old dieting habits - just HOPING that a miracle will happen and I'll be at goal weight in a few months. When I started reading all the comments on MFP - I began to examine my own goals and realized that I WAS being dumb. You know the saying, "doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results"? I was stuck there. Stuck in "being miserable".
I got a wake up call by reading comments like these on MFP. It worked for me. I started listening, reading, and learning. Learning from the same people that were fed up with people going down the wrong road over and over. Check out my ticker. I'm feeing pretty good about myself now.
I'm glad that worked for you, you've made amazing progress! I hope that I can be as committed as you have been!0 -
cliff notes:
stop fat bashing..
the internet is mean ..
and if you call someone out for starvation diet you are being mean and inconsiderate...
and in...for the meanies..
Your cliff notes are inaccurate. In my original post AND in several follow up posts I encouraged people to offer guidance to those who are making unhealthy choices. Calling someone out is not the same thing as calling someone names, the latter of which is what I am protesting.
I want to see the posts where someone who is not being a jerk and saying your advice is not what I wanted to hear is called a name...just one post will do.
I went for a blog I saw recently because it was easier to pick from my history:
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/Shiels1988/view/cleanse-595748
Don't be dumb. Seriously. Don't.
Some people really like to be miserable.
These comments came BEFORE the original poster started to be defensive.
So, I ask seriously, HOW is this being helpful? Offering advice? Trying to steer someone in the right direction? THIS is fairly mild compared to some of the other things I've seen on this site. The thing is, IT IS NOT HELPFUL. Once you call someone "dumb" they're not going to listen to anything else you have to say.
Seriously? I read enough comments to make me think - hey wait a minute: Maybe I am being dumb. Maybe I am clinging to old dieting habits - just HOPING that a miracle will happen and I'll be at goal weight in a few months. When I started reading all the comments on MFP - I began to examine my own goals and realized that I WAS being dumb. You know the saying, "doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results"? I was stuck there. Stuck in "being miserable".
I got a wake up call by reading comments like these on MFP. It worked for me. I started listening, reading, and learning. Learning from the same people that were fed up with people going down the wrong road over and over. Check out my ticker. I'm feeing pretty good about myself now.
I'm glad that worked for you, you've made amazing progress! I hope that I can be as committed as you have been!
Yes, you can be one of the ones who succeed. It is about commitment. It's about building healthy habits that will carry you through, well, forever.
Some on MFP say we're all here for the same reason. I just don't buy that in total. Most are here to get healthy. But how we get there is a very individual experience. We all have to eat at a calorie deficit and exercise - but our reasons for being overweight are individual. You never know when what you say may ignite the spark in someone reading your comments. So, having ALL people comment on posts is helpful. Read what works or speaks to you. Disregard the rest. We're adults here.0 -
You never know when what you say may ignite the spark in someone reading your comments. So, having ALL people comment on posts is helpful. Read what works or speaks to you. Disregard the rest. We're adults here.
You know, this is a valid point. What works for some isn't going to work for others. Thank you for your input.0 -
Check out my ticker. I'm feeing pretty good about myself now.
1. Awesome job! Seriously!
2. Is that a home made poptart in your ticker pic? :huh: :laugh: It looks yummy!0 -
Spot on.I just left a thread on a popular social networking site where an opinion was expressed about how fat people should be forced to pay extra any time they use any sort of transportation other than their own cars. There was a lot of supporters, many who expressed their thought that obese people are disgusting, ugly, smelly, and essentially wastes of flesh.
It's not an uncommon opinion. I can't think of any social networking site I have participated on where bashing people for being over-weight was not a "thing."
Here, I find a different kind of thread. People are called stupid for eating too few calories, rushing to lose weight, etc.
People who bash the fatties dress up their hatred in pretty clothes, claiming that they are offering "tough love" or just expressing their opinion. The same goes here for those who bash the extreme dieters.
It's impossible to win.
I've known this for years. I've known that there is no point arguing, there is no point in pointing out that a person is being hurtful because:
This is the internet
If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen
People are *kitten*, get over it
This, my friends, is a cop out. It is a way to justify letting out anger, disgust, frustration, and loathing on someone who has not done anything to truly deserve it, and to do so without consequence.
And you know what? It fracking sucks. A person driven by all the hurt and self-loathing generated by how they are treated because they are fat to lose weight, signs up for a site in the hopes that they can finally obtain that ideal standard of fitness and beauty, and when try, they actually TRY to do something to change themselves, they can't catch a break. They still get caught up in the same vicious criticism that drove them to lose weight.
I am not suggesting that it is a bad thing to redirect people who are using unhealthy methods to lose weight. People need guidance. However, in my entirely pointless plea, I am going to request that before you hit "post" on your next comment, you take a moment to THINK about what you're saying. Think about all the shame and pain a person has to be carrying around already to drive them to try living on 500 calories a day. Are you REALLY trying to "help" when you call someone an idiot, or tell them that their choices are stupid?
By the way, this is not a response to anything anyone has said to me personally. First, no one has ever said anything unkind to me on this site, although I see unkind things said daily to other people. Second, everyone can feel free to bash me if they need to get it out of their system. I already know I am fracked up, I make crap decisions daily, and no one could possibly say anything to me that could add to the pile of self-loathing I've made for myself.
Anyway, the TL;DR here is simple:
Be a decent human being to the people around you, regardless of how you encounter them. Please.0 -
You know, this is a valid point. What works for some isn't going to work for others. Thank you for your input.
Calorie deficits work for everyone.0 -
You know, this is a valid point. What works for some isn't going to work for others. Thank you for your input.
Calorie deficits work for everyone.
While you are correct, in this instance I was referring to the motivation that keeps someone going, not the methodology behind their weight loss.0 -
cliff notes:
stop fat bashing..
the internet is mean ..
and if you call someone out for starvation diet you are being mean and inconsiderate...
and in...for the meanies..
Your cliff notes are inaccurate. In my original post AND in several follow up posts I encouraged people to offer guidance to those who are making unhealthy choices. Calling someone out is not the same thing as calling someone names, the latter of which is what I am protesting.
I want to see the posts where someone who is not being a jerk and saying your advice is not what I wanted to hear is called a name...just one post will do.
I went for a blog I saw recently because it was easier to pick from my history:
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/Shiels1988/view/cleanse-595748
Don't be dumb. Seriously. Don't.
Some people really like to be miserable.
These comments came BEFORE the original poster started to be defensive.
So, I ask seriously, HOW is this being helpful? Offering advice? Trying to steer someone in the right direction? THIS is fairly mild compared to some of the other things I've seen on this site. The thing is, IT IS NOT HELPFUL. Once you call someone "dumb" they're not going to listen to anything else you have to say.
I will argue the semantics here...
"Don't be dumb, seriously Don't" was not saying that person was dumb, even the poster knew they were calling the cleanse dumbHow is eating veggies for 2 weeks and eggs for breakfast for those two weeks dumb?
as for the "some people like to be miserable" was in reference to who? the poster or the person who said don't be dumb?
then the tell tale...I am gonna do it regardless of anything cause I want to..*stomps foot and throws tantrum*K I understand you all have your own opinions but if you feel a need to be negative on here than do NOT post on my blog. I do not go and criticize any of you and things you wish to do. My nutritionist says this is fine and I can get all I need as long as I keep taking my vitamins while doing this. So keep your negativity to yourselves because it is unwanted here and I am going to do it regardless of your negative comments. And for those who think you know what protein needs people need, need to remember each person is different and I know my body better than you guys do.
Even after someone did the maths and said it was dangerous due to lack of protien. (15g a day is not enough for any adult who exercises)
The above IMHO is not mean or awful...it is the truth and nope the truth is not often pretty....you know what was mean on that post..thisLets be honest, most of us have done something similar to this in desperation to lose either initial or stubborn weight and fast. There is nothing wrong with this, however be careful that you do not become ravenous and start "binge eating" i've been caught in that trap plenty of times. You wont be getting enough calories and your body will go into "starvation mode" however you should lose a large amount of weight (or mass) as some of this may be muscular. It's probably not the healthiest way of losing weight fast, but I'm sure you probably already know this. I lost kg doing the cabbage soup diet, unfortunately i put it all back on so think about how you will maintain. Good luck
x
I have bolded the mean parts...why because it is misinformation and false and will lead the poster down the wrong path with wrong information. That is mean..unintentional I am sure but still mean.0 -
You know, this is a valid point. What works for some isn't going to work for others. Thank you for your input.
Calorie deficits work for everyone.
While you are correct, in this instance I was referring to the motivation that keeps someone going, not the methodology behind their weight loss.
Motivation isn't needed, discipline and dedication are... very different aspects.0 -
Check out my ticker. I'm feeing pretty good about myself now.
1. Awesome job! Seriously!
2. Is that a home made poptart in your ticker pic? :huh: :laugh: It looks yummy!
Why yes it is. Brown sugar cinnamon. Delish. And thanks. :flowerforyou:0 -
I just left a thread on a popular social networking site where an opinion was expressed about how fat people should be forced to pay extra any time they use any sort of transportation other than their own cars.
At this point, wouldn't it be easier to just give the skinny people a discount?
Just trying to be efficient...0 -
That is true!Honestly, I have tried to refute your argument a few times now but keep stumbling. I think that you are, for the most part, correct. I have even tried to "soften my tone" when offering people advice on the forums and avoiding being overly critical. Except in the cases of someone who is promoting an unsafe method to another or telling another that X is the only way to do Y.
However, you have to understand the frustration that comes along with helping people on MFP. A small group of people here try to promote ways of eating that are backed by science and are constantly trying to educate those who are ignorant of nutrition. Because they are going against the "common wisdom" of dieting, they get a lot of unwarranted angst from people who call them rude, haters, and various other nasty names. Also, the same threads are posted over and over again, multiple times per day, with few users actually paying attention to the thread three lines down and instead posting an identical thread above it. And this is despite several excellent stickied threads that would have answered their questions.
It is frustrating, to say the least, to have to keep repeating the same information and refuting the same information over and over again to a user base who, largely, does not appreciate it or pass on what they have learned.0 -
However, you have to understand the frustration that comes along with helping people on MFP. A small group of people here try to promote ways of eating that are backed by science and are constantly trying to educate those who are ignorant of nutrition. Because they are going against the "common wisdom" of dieting, they get a lot of unwarranted angst from people who call them rude, haters, and various other nasty names. Also, the same threads are posted over and over again, multiple times per day, with few users actually paying attention to the thread three lines down and instead posting an identical thread above it. And this is despite several excellent stickied threads that would have answered their questions.
It is frustrating, to say the least, to have to keep repeating the same information and refuting the same information over and over again to a user base who, largely, does not appreciate it or pass on what they have learned.
This. I left MFP and am back after a long absence... and its the same-old, same-old. Good people try to help with quality, scientifically backed information. Many other people try to help with pseudoscience and anecdotal evidence (which is not evidence at all). People get frustrated. Some get overly harsh. I've gotten overly harsh in the past. The pseudoscience drives me batty and the 'it worked for me' crowd is even harder to swallow (note: placebos 'work for me' too)... and so... yah. It's just a frustrating treadmill and I usually end up tired of helping and I start ignoring everyone that isn't on my friends list.
But... kindness is a good thing. Kindness goes a long way. I try to be kind and always regret when I get snarky and annoyed. Ah well... until they invent a magic wand that will give everyone an understanding of what constitutes science and evidence... it is what it is.0 -
Thank you, Ian_Stuart! I am feeling so frustrated and utterly exasperated with my life. I needed to see those words and come back to reality, that it is NOT the weight loss, so much, but the healthier me. I got myself into this somehow, someway, and by going back to my unintentional, old eating habits, I might get my life back on track. I just have to remember how I got off track and gained all this weight. I need to start doing some inner reflections about the past 30 years and figure out where I lost myself. Oooh, that number is scary - I got married 30 years ago.0
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The one thing I always see in threads like this that makes me laugh the most is the assertion that "mean people" are just mean because "it's the internet and they are saying things they wouldn't say in real life."
In my life experience, I have met very few people in life who act differently in real life than they do on the internet. If you think people are acting way differently online than they would in person, that kind of says a lot more about how you act online, not everyone else.
I don't act or speak any differently if I'm talking to someone online, through a text message, or face to face. I assume, based on my actions and the people around me, that most everyone else acts the same. If you think differently, I would probably guess you act differently online than in real life, and what does that say about you?
The perception of consequences does impact the way people behave online. Any number of stories about people going online making death threats, threatening of any number of types of violence, throwing around racial/ethnic slurs and then getting butthurt when there are actual real life consequences to their actions suggests that OP is onto something.
http://www.3news.co.nz/Charlotte-Dawson-confronts-cyber-bullies/tabid/418/articleID/273958/Default.aspx#.Uo4xbWSxNaE0 -
You know, this is a valid point. What works for some isn't going to work for others. Thank you for your input.
Calorie deficits work for everyone.
While you are correct, in this instance I was referring to the motivation that keeps someone going, not the methodology behind their weight loss.
Motivation isn't needed, discipline and dedication are... very different aspects.
QFT! If being overweight/ obese, unhealthy and feeling poor are not enough motivation for someone, then don't bother. Worrying about motivation is a sucker's pit. Just decide and then do.0 -
... Think about all the shame and pain a person has to be carrying around already to drive them to try living on 500 calories a day....
^^^ This alone is enough to be kind and helpful instead of blunt and hurtful. Thank you for posting.0 -
... Think about all the shame and pain a person has to be carrying around already to drive them to try living on 500 calories a day....
^^^ This alone is enough to be kind and helpful instead of blunt and hurtful. Thank you for posting.
Not necessarily. Lots of people think they can lose weight by eating 500 calories for a few weeks and then it's all good because they'll be thin. That's how yo yoing occurs.0 -
I think the quickest way to get someone to shut down is to tell them how right you are and how wrong they are.
If someone wants to know about my choices (vegan, e.g.), I'll tell them. If I read misinformation here or elsewhere, I'll offer my take on information..but my saying my choice is better than someone else's is the best way to make sure that they won't even consider my choices.
When I used to spend hours here and elsewhere trying to convince someone, I realized this isn't about them...this is about feeding my ego and my own need to be right.0 -
...but even if you can't win, it doesn't mean it's not worth trying, right?
That's not true. There is no point in my son's lacrosse team trying. Because they can't win.
:noway:
See? Now that was rude.
Funny, though. Mostly because it doesn't affect me. Yes, I'll admit that.0 -
This type of behavior has been going on far longer than the internet was a thing. Pretty sure organizations like the KKK haven't needed the internet to throw around racial slurs, make death threats, threats of violence, actual violent acts, etc. To say this kind of behavior is around and prevalent only on the internet, or just because people are on the internet now is pure ignorance of reality, and basically looking to use the internet as the newest scapegoat.The one thing I always see in threads like this that makes me laugh the most is the assertion that "mean people" are just mean because "it's the internet and they are saying things they wouldn't say in real life."
In my life experience, I have met very few people in life who act differently in real life than they do on the internet. If you think people are acting way differently online than they would in person, that kind of says a lot more about how you act online, not everyone else.
I don't act or speak any differently if I'm talking to someone online, through a text message, or face to face. I assume, based on my actions and the people around me, that most everyone else acts the same. If you think differently, I would probably guess you act differently online than in real life, and what does that say about you?
The perception of consequences does impact the way people behave online. Any number of stories about people going online making death threats, threatening of any number of types of violence, throwing around racial/ethnic slurs and then getting butthurt when there are actual real life consequences to their actions suggests that OP is onto something.
http://www.3news.co.nz/Charlotte-Dawson-confronts-cyber-bullies/tabid/418/articleID/273958/Default.aspx#.Uo4xbWSxNaE0 -
:drinker:... Think about all the shame and pain a person has to be carrying around already to drive them to try living on 500 calories a day....
^^^ This alone is enough to be kind and helpful instead of blunt and hurtful. Thank you for posting.
:flowerforyou:I just left a thread on a popular social networking site where an opinion was expressed about how fat people should be forced to pay extra any time they use any sort of transportation other than their own cars. There was a lot of supporters, many who expressed their thought that obese people are disgusting, ugly, smelly, and essentially wastes of flesh.
It's not an uncommon opinion. I can't think of any social networking site I have participated on where bashing people for being over-weight was not a "thing."
Here, I find a different kind of thread. People are called stupid for eating too few calories, rushing to lose weight, etc.
People who bash the fatties dress up their hatred in pretty clothes, claiming that they are offering "tough love" or just expressing their opinion. The same goes here for those who bash the extreme dieters.
It's impossible to win.
I've known this for years. I've known that there is no point arguing, there is no point in pointing out that a person is being hurtful because:
This is the internet
If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen
People are *kitten*, get over it
This, my friends, is a cop out. It is a way to justify letting out anger, disgust, frustration, and loathing on someone who has not done anything to truly deserve it, and to do so without consequence.
And you know what? It fracking sucks. A person driven by all the hurt and self-loathing generated by how they are treated because they are fat to lose weight, signs up for a site in the hopes that they can finally obtain that ideal standard of fitness and beauty, and when try, they actually TRY to do something to change themselves, they can't catch a break. They still get caught up in the same vicious criticism that drove them to lose weight.
I am not suggesting that it is a bad thing to redirect people who are using unhealthy methods to lose weight. People need guidance. However, in my entirely pointless plea, I am going to request that before you hit "post" on your next comment, you take a moment to THINK about what you're saying. Think about all the shame and pain a person has to be carrying around already to drive them to try living on 500 calories a day. Are you REALLY trying to "help" when you call someone an idiot, or tell them that their choices are stupid?
By the way, this is not a response to anything anyone has said to me personally. First, no one has ever said anything unkind to me on this site, although I see unkind things said daily to other people. Second, everyone can feel free to bash me if they need to get it out of their system. I already know I am fracked up, I make crap decisions daily, and no one could possibly say anything to me that could add to the pile of self-loathing I've made for myself.
Anyway, the TL;DR here is simple:
Be a decent human being to the people around you, regardless of how you encounter them. Please.0 -
I think "if you can't take the heat stay out of the kitchen" goes both ways. If you post a stupid question on a forum (like "OMG eating 500 calories a day passed out not losing weight what am I doing wrong???") then . . . well, you kinda get what you deserve. If you're capable of using the internet for asking for advice on forums, then you're also capable of using Google to find healthy ways to lose weight and why whatever choice you're asking for advice about is wrong.0
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for the record, I don't think fat people should be charged more, but fit people should get a discount...or better parking. If you have spent your whole day on the couch with a bag of Doritos, you could use the longer walk into the grocery store for ice cream.
This is why I want a system where we have pedometers synced to parking meters...0 -
OP, I look forward to watching your future posts to see how you are able to provide the much-needed help that is phrased in a way that is acceptable to the masses.
After you've made, oh, say, 100 of these helpful posts, let's reconvene and you can share what you've learned from the experience.
:flowerforyou:
TL;DR - you've made 26 posts on this site since you joined 17 months ago, ~9 of which are in this thread. It's time to start being the change you are expecting from others.
I honestly know very little around the science of weight-loss compared to many posters. I'm learning. In my defense, despite my longevity on the site, until now I think my longest stretch of logging and using the site was about 15 days.
I am not a good example of what to do. When I am logging my calories I start to obsess about what I am eating, and my calories start dwindling until I am not eating enough, getting headaches constantly, and then going off the wagon when I can't do it anymore. I am pretty much the poster-child for what NOT to do. I am trying extremely extremely hard to break that pattern this time, but I struggle with it constantly. Where I am right now, in attempting to advise others I feel as though I am being a fat hypocrite instead of just fat.
.
edited because I hit the "Post Reply" button before typing anything out
You'd be a very good person to give advice, then, IMHO. Maybe not necessarily on what to do, but what NOT to do. Share your experience(s) with those that are going to try certain methods that you've tried with no success. Basically, 'this is what you're planning on doing. I did it and this is what (didn't) happen.' Granted, you'd probably get lumped in with all the other meanies here, but you'd be trying to nicely help. And, maybe you'll help a couple of people realize that they'll be wasting their time - or worse.0 -
Quite the opposite, you SHOULD tell people when they are choosing the bad path. Pulling someone out of the path of a speeding car (even if they, themselves, are the driver) is the MOST caring thing you can do for someone.
I just believe it is possible to do that without being intentionally cruel....and maybe they won't get out of the way of that speeding car, but while you may think they're stupid for standing in front of it, just keep in mind that it took a whole lot of pain to put them there in the first place. Adding to that isn't going to help.
I agree. I get it, it's the internet, people will feel free to say whatever they want. I personally don't see the point in being cruel or rude, using the guise of 'helping', so I don't do it. I skip right over sarcastic comments and just focus on the helpful ones. Basically, being rude/off-topic/cruel is not helpful and a waste of time. Do I need someone to coddle me? Hardly. Would I appreciate a little kindness? Greatly.0 -
This is my feeling on the subject. I don't post a lot, but I've been here more than 2 years and I've seen this scenario play out more times than I can count. A big thing that really annoys me is that people will post a topic with a half a$$ed, dangerous, scientifically debunked plan of losing 20lbs in 3 weeks or something and then say something like "supportive answers only! No negativity!" Or "I know it's not a good idea to eat 1000 calories of celery sticks and do 5 hours on the treadmill daily, but maybe it'll work for ME! What do you guys think?"
Support =/= hand holding, coddling, or enabling.
Support =/= a yes man who tell you what you want to hear regardless of whether it's true or not.
I never said that people who are doing unhealthy things should NOT be offered guidance, or that it is a bad thing to suggest another way.
Quite the opposite, you SHOULD tell people when they are choosing the bad path. Pulling someone out of the path of a speeding car (even if they, themselves, are the driver) is the MOST caring thing you can do for someone.
I just believe it is possible to do that without being intentionally cruel....and maybe they won't get out of the way of that speeding car, but while you may think they're stupid for standing in front of it, just keep in mind that it took a whole lot of pain to put them there in the first place. Adding to that isn't going to help.
A lot of the time the advice given is NOT intentionally cruel, it is just stated in a blunt, matter-of-fact manner that some people interpret as rude or demeaning.
^^ This. There is no inherent emotion in letters on the screen. It is how you internalize it. I would rather someone say, "No, you're wrong. Here's why:......" than, "Blah, blah, blah, touchy feeling, sorry, gentle gentle, it's okay, back rub....love you..... here's what I think." Just tell me the truth as you see it. I'll take it and either validate it for myself and use it or discard it. Whatevs....0
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