Question about the QUALITY (not the QUANTITY) of calories

aimeemarie150

I "eat clean" I guess. I eat more veggies, less sugars. more protein, less sodium. I'm not sure if the increase in healthy foods is helping me lose weight, or the lack of high cal, high fat, high sodium foods, but I can say that my body feels better when I eat "clean." I believe calories in v. out is really important, but I'm also concerned (especially after reading about the twinkie diet) about how that may adversely effect your nutrient levels. If I don't get my daily nutrients, my body certainly can tell.

Mr_Excitement

I could swear I read a study on this exact topic sometime back, and the results were, as you might expect, that a calorie is a calorie as far as weight loss is concerned.

Still, I expect you would receive some benefits from actually getting good *nutrition* while you count calories-- especially in preserving lean mass. That might not be readily apparent from just reading a scale.

jonnythan

I could swear I read a study on this exact topic sometime back, and the results were, as you might expect, that a calorie is a calorie as far as weight loss is concerned.

Still, I expect you would receive some benefits from actually getting good *nutrition* while you count calories-- especially in preserving lean mass. That might not be readily apparent from just reading a scale.

"Good nutrition" means proper nutrient intake. Your body doesn't really care whether anyone thinks that the food a particular nutrient came from is "clean" or "organic" or "unprocessed."

Mr_Excitement

I could swear I read a study on this exact topic sometime back, and the results were, as you might expect, that a calorie is a calorie as far as weight loss is concerned.

Still, I expect you would receive some benefits from actually getting good *nutrition* while you count calories-- especially in preserving lean mass. That might not be readily apparent from just reading a scale.

"Good nutrition" means proper nutrient intake. Your body doesn't really care whether anyone thinks that the food a particular nutrient came from is "clean" or "organic" or "unprocessed."

Sure-- the OP referenced foods like donuts vs. foods most people would deem healthy. As far as weight loss is concerned, of course you can lose weight eating nothing but donuts-- but you won't be getting good nutrition. There's a whole range of foods that can provide decent nutrition that most people wouldn't consider "clean" or healthy, but I expect donuts wouldn't fall in that category.

jonnythan

I could swear I read a study on this exact topic sometime back, and the results were, as you might expect, that a calorie is a calorie as far as weight loss is concerned.

Still, I expect you would receive some benefits from actually getting good *nutrition* while you count calories-- especially in preserving lean mass. That might not be readily apparent from just reading a scale.

"Good nutrition" means proper nutrient intake. Your body doesn't really care whether anyone thinks that the food a particular nutrient came from is "clean" or "organic" or "unprocessed."

Sure-- the OP referenced foods like donuts vs. foods most people would deem healthy. As far as weight loss is concerned, of course you can lose weight eating nothing but donuts-- but you won't be getting good nutrition. There's a whole range of foods that can provide decent nutrition that most people wouldn't consider "clean" or healthy, but I expect donuts wouldn't fall in that category.

Well, for one thing, eating nothing but donuts will let you live a lot longer than eating nothing but cauliflower.

But beyond that, it's beyond stupid to judge how "healthy" a food is by how "healthy" you will be if you eat nothing but that food.

For example: Of course you can lose weight eating nothing but broccoli - but you won't be getting good nutrition. So what? So broccoli is an unhealthy food, or something? Of course not.

There's nothing inherently wrong with donuts and you can get perfect nutrition even if you eat a donut or two every day of your life. Eating a donut doesn't prevent you from getting the other nutrients you need with the rest of your calories, just like eating a plate of broccoli doesn't prevent you from getting the other nutrients you need with the rest of your calories.

Mr_Excitement

I could swear I read a study on this exact topic sometime back, and the results were, as you might expect, that a calorie is a calorie as far as weight loss is concerned.

Still, I expect you would receive some benefits from actually getting good *nutrition* while you count calories-- especially in preserving lean mass. That might not be readily apparent from just reading a scale.

"Good nutrition" means proper nutrient intake. Your body doesn't really care whether anyone thinks that the food a particular nutrient came from is "clean" or "organic" or "unprocessed."

Sure-- the OP referenced foods like donuts vs. foods most people would deem healthy. As far as weight loss is concerned, of course you can lose weight eating nothing but donuts-- but you won't be getting good nutrition. There's a whole range of foods that can provide decent nutrition that most people wouldn't consider "clean" or healthy, but I expect donuts wouldn't fall in that category.

Well, for one thing, eating nothing but donuts will let you live a lot longer than eating nothing but cauliflower.

But beyond that, it's beyond stupid to judge how "healthy" a food is by how "healthy" you will be if you eat nothing but that food.

That was implied in the OP's question. It's an extreme hypothetical; if you got all of your calories from foods like donuts vs. foods widely accepted as healthy. A diet of nothing but cauliflower would not be nutritious, and a diet of nothing but donuts would not be nutritious, but a diet of nothing but donuts and foods like it would not be as nutritious as a diet comprised of nothing but cauliflower and other foods 'generally accepted as healthy'-- and I think that's obvious.
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There's nothing inherently wrong with donuts and you can get perfect nutrition even if you eat a donut or two every day of your life. Eating a donut doesn't prevent you from getting the other nutrients you need with the rest of your calories, just like eating a plate of broccoli doesn't prevent you from getting the other nutrients you need with the rest of your calories.

I think you're inferring a bit too much-- we don't actually disagree here, and I'm not pushing 'clean' or organic foods. A generally nutritious diet can include some donuts, and center on burritos, hamburgers, and beer.

jonnythan

a diet of nothing but donuts and foods like it

This is a completely meaningless statement. "Foods like it"? What are foods "like" a donut?

There's no such thing as "healthy" or "unhealthy" food. It is an overall diet that either contains the nutrients a person needs or doesn't.

Acg67

This is my opinion, but as a former endurance athlete, I would tell you what worked. It is not about counting calories if you eat clean. Clean though needs to be defined. It is for me, no dairy, grains, bad oils, sugar/sweetener, chemicals, or anything processed. When I did X Fit, they preach from a book called is starts with food. Great book, and yes, I did the 30 Day Whole Food Challenge (did it for 33 days) and I did not count one calorie, ate enough that I was full, and felt amazing and in 33 days, lost 15 pounds. But things like Paleo and Whole 30 day challenges are not about weight loss. They are about awareness and lifestyle changes. Today, for my own challenge, I am doing 90% clean eating and it is working...And while I log my cals, I don't worry about them.

So what is your diet comprised of that is chemical free and unprocessed?

I am not saying I eat a perfectly clean diet. Clean for me is avoiding any boxed or processed items, and eating whole foods and organic/free range when possible. I hunt/fish so I have Elk, Moose, Venison, and fish from the Ocean. I try to buy free range chicken and grass fed beef when on sale.
I buy organic veggies and fruit when possible and stay clear of dairy other than organic grass fed butter.
I do use protein powder (MRM). I had tried a "healthier" option from Whole Foods but it was 3x the price and tasted like crap
I use coconut milk and coconut oil

Typical meals for me are Sausage with veggies, some fruits, raw almonds/cashews, and things like dates/raisins. I do still buy some processed items. Not perfect here. When I have an option, I will go raw. I do eat Lara bars, but they are pretty healthy.

So decent amounts of highly processed foods and lots of things chock full of chemicals

Mr_Excitement

a diet of nothing but donuts and foods like it

This is a completely meaningless statement. "Foods like it"? What are foods "like" a donut?

Really? You really can't think of a few foods that people might tend to classify as being "like a donut", nutritionally?

There's no such thing as "healthy" or "unhealthy" food. It is an overall diet that either contains the nutrients a person needs or doesn't.

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I believe I just said that in my previous post. Again, I don't think we disagree-- except perhaps on the idea of there being other foods that are "like donuts".

jonnythan

This is a completely worthless conversation. You try to use "a diet of nothing but donuts" being bad to make a point about donuts...... but refuse to accept "a diet of nothing but cauliflower" to make the same point about cauliflower.

Ridiculous.

Mr_Excitement

This is a completely worthless conversation. You try to use "a diet of nothing but donuts" being bad to make a point about donuts...... but refuse to accept "a diet of nothing but cauliflower" to make the same point about cauliflower.

Ridiculous.

I wouldn't say it's worthless. You're getting lots of practice swatting strawmen. I just said that a diet of nothing but cauliflower would not be nutritious either two posts back.

jmadams111

I've lost around 120 lbs, at first by just cutting everything in half, then added light cardio, then added strength training...and finally found MFP and started eating "cleaner." The biggest difference. The two main comments I would make are:

1 -more caloies out than in = weight loss no matter what the defined "quality" of the food.
2 - however a 60 caloroe apple makes me feel fuller, less hungry and the fiber improve regularity, than a 60 calorie cookie.

jonnythan

This is a completely worthless conversation. You try to use "a diet of nothing but donuts" being bad to make a point about donuts...... but refuse to accept "a diet of nothing but cauliflower" to make the same point about cauliflower.

Ridiculous.

I wouldn't say it's worthless. You're getting lots of practice swatting strawmen. I just said that a diet of nothing but cauliflower would not be nutritious either two posts back.

But then you wave your hands in the air and all of sudden "cauliflower PLUS FOODS LIKE CAULIFLOWER" is good, but then "donuts PLUS FOODS LIKE DONUTS" are bad.

Your original statement was "As far as weight loss is concerned, of course you can lose weight eating nothing but donuts-- but you won't be getting good nutrition." Substitute any food you want in for the word donuts and it's still a true statement. So whatever point you were trying to make with that statement is completely invalid because it's true of all foods

Number_44

Will a person lose weight at the same rate if you eat 1500 cals of bacon and donuts per day, as if you ate 1500 cals of healthy foods (veggies, lean proteins, grains, whatever you deem to be healthy)?

Just curious to what people's actual experiences have been with this.

Thanks in advance!

Voodoo Lady

Great research question. I suggest you develop a method to test for this and set up an experiment. Run it and then return back here later with your results. I am looking forward to what you come up with. Thank you.

beastmode_kitty

I'm going to throw my two cents in here based on my experience over the past couple years.

Long ago I tried more of the clean eating, tried to cut out as much processed foods as I could, increased fruits and veggies, cutting out as much sugar as possible. I found it did nothing for me, and I eventually binged on eating because I couldn't help the cravings.

Then I switched back to calories in/calories out, and found I could control the cravings for certain stuff, I also drank more water, and had one treat meal on the weekends. This has led up to my 56 pound loss and overall I feel great! Don't get me wrong, I've had a few weekends where I ate really crappy a few times, and really paid for it during the week, but I was able to get back onto the bandwagon and kept trucking on through.

I guess you could say everyone's body is different. Calories in/calories out may work for me for weight loss, but may not work for someone else. It's taken me over 2 years to figure out what works for me, and i cringe when people ask me what diet I'm on. It's not a diet, its a lifestyle change!

Mr_Excitement

This is a completely worthless conversation. You try to use "a diet of nothing but donuts" being bad to make a point about donuts...... but refuse to accept "a diet of nothing but cauliflower" to make the same point about cauliflower.

Ridiculous.

I wouldn't say it's worthless. You're getting lots of practice swatting strawmen. I just said that a diet of nothing but cauliflower would not be nutritious either two posts back.

But then you wave your hands in the air and all of sudden "cauliflower PLUS FOODS LIKE CAULIFLOWER" is good, but then "donuts PLUS FOODS LIKE DONUTS" are bad.

Your original statement was "As far as weight loss is concerned, of course you can lose weight eating nothing but donuts-- but you won't be getting good nutrition." Substitute any food you want in for the word donuts and it's still a true statement. So whatever point you were trying to make with that statement is completely invalid because it's true of all foods

I do understand what you're saying-- but it seems like semantics to me.

By "foods like donuts", I mean foods like candy bars, sugary drinks, cupcakes, Twinkies, etc. A diet comprised of nothing but foods like this would not be nutritious-- and it actually happens in the real world. Of course any or all of those foods can be *included* in a nutritious diet-- it's not like there are any negatively nutritious foods.

jonnythan

This is a completely worthless conversation. You try to use "a diet of nothing but donuts" being bad to make a point about donuts...... but refuse to accept "a diet of nothing but cauliflower" to make the same point about cauliflower.

Ridiculous.

I wouldn't say it's worthless. You're getting lots of practice swatting strawmen. I just said that a diet of nothing but cauliflower would not be nutritious either two posts back.

But then you wave your hands in the air and all of sudden "cauliflower PLUS FOODS LIKE CAULIFLOWER" is good, but then "donuts PLUS FOODS LIKE DONUTS" are bad.

Your original statement was "As far as weight loss is concerned, of course you can lose weight eating nothing but donuts-- but you won't be getting good nutrition." Substitute any food you want in for the word donuts and it's still a true statement. So whatever point you were trying to make with that statement is completely invalid because it's true of all foods

I do understand what you're saying-- but it seems like semantics to me.

By "foods like donuts", I mean foods like candy bars, sugary drinks, cupcakes, Twinkies, etc. A diet comprised of nothing but foods like this would not be nutritious-- and it actually happens in the real world. Of course any or all of those foods can be *included* in a nutritious diet-- it's not like there are any negatively nutritious foods.

Oh so you define the foods based on their macro content: "like donuts" means high fat, high sugar.

OK, so foods "like cauliflower" are foods that have basically zero fat or protein. Cool. A diet of foods like cauliflower is not a nutritious diet.

I understand what you're trying to do, but I'm trying to get you to understand it's logically inconsistent and makes no sense.

FitNurseLex

This debate is hilarious, but here's my two cents. Plain and simple, I eat the foods that allow me to eat the most and not to feel hungry or bloated. Lots of white carbs make me feel bloated, so I don't eat them regularly. The only reason I don't eat an everyday diet of Taco Bell,Pizza Hut, Krispy Kreme and other forms of take-out, as I have pre-weight loss, is because I would have to eat far too little of it to come w/in my calorie goal and for me that seems to be a waste of calories. I'd rather eat a big plate of chicken breast, sweet potato and broccoli than to eat just a large fry from McDonald's, which I imagine would roughly be the same amount of cals. Also, to be completely honest those foods make me feel sluggish if eaten routinely. I ate a whole bag of Sweet n'Salty Chex Mix the other week and got so nauseous I wanted to cry. Now that I've cut back heavily on refined sugar in my diet, what sugary snacks I could eat without problems a yr ago, I simply can't now. (or at least not in the amounts that I could before) However, "clean eating" is certainly not my thing. I have weekly cheat meals and a few glasses of wine a week and usually a few mimosas on the weekend. I also practice calorie cycling so I have "cheat" foods throughout the week as well. (think ice cream, peanut brittle etc.) A calorie is a calorie is a calorie. If it fits w/in the cals, and I want it...I will have it. The End.

bcattoes

I could swear I read a study on this exact topic sometime back, and the results were, as you might expect, that a calorie is a calorie as far as weight loss is concerned.

Still, I expect you would receive some benefits from actually getting good *nutrition* while you count calories-- especially in preserving lean mass. That might not be readily apparent from just reading a scale.

"Good nutrition" means proper nutrient intake. Your body doesn't really care whether anyone thinks that the food a particular nutrient came from is "clean" or "organic" or "unprocessed."

Do you think you could get "good nutrition" from the diet of bacon and donuts suggested by the OP? Assuming we are talking average bacon and donut content and not cauliflower donuts or something like that?

jonnythan

Do you think you could get "good nutrition" from the diet of bacon and donuts suggested by the OP? Assuming we are talking average bacon and donut content and not cauliflower donuts or something like that?

No more than you can get "good nutrition" from a diet of cauliflower and coconut oil.