Question about the QUALITY (not the QUANTITY) of calories

Quieau

RE: THE MSG identification

I realize that MSG occurs NATURALLY in foods in quantities and configurations (like being paired with other vitamins/minerals in certain foods to make them catalyze each others' biovailability, for example) small enough to be fine, even healthy to most. HOWEVER ... I referred to the ***ADDITIVE*** MSG which is both highly processed and highly concentrated and in some cases, I wouldn't be surprised even synthetic.

Big difference! That's why I used the phrase "MSG and other ADDITIVES" ...

They inject rats with MSG to make them fat for obesity research for goodness sakes! Read the history of MSG (the additive) and how it was used to make military rations palatable ... it's all fascinating ... and scary!

jonnythan

RE: THE MSG identification

I realize that MSG occurs NATURALLY in foods in quantities and configurations (like being paired with other vitamins/minerals in certain foods to make them catalyze each others' biovailability, for example) small enough to be fine, even healthy to most. HOWEVER ... I referred to the ***ADDITIVE*** MSG which is both highly processed and highly concentrated and in some cases, I wouldn't be surprised even synthetic.

Big difference! That's why I used the phrase "MSG and other ADDITIVES" ...

They inject rats with MSG to make them fat for obesity research for goodness sakes! Read the history of MSG (the additive) and how it was used to make military rations palatable ... it's all fascinating ... and scary!

Regardless of how you feel about it, MSG is a food. Its primary component is an amino acid.

QuietBloom

If we forgo the body's necessity for essential nutrients then my answer is below:


There is suggestive evidence that indicates there may be a link between certain nutrients and their ability to increase the body's motabolism. I'm not certain how legitimate this all is, but if there is truth, then it would make a difference in weightloss. If this is true, the the quality of the calories would matter greatly, however if this is false, then it wouldn't matter at all as your body breaks down most macro nutrients into the same pieces anyways regardless of their quality.... for the most part

However, from personal experience, I noticed significent differences when adjusting the quality of calories I consumed. the main one being, the amount of energy I had to actually go to the gym. After a few days of eating a more natural diet (fruits veggies etc) I found myself wanting to be active. This in turn boosted my weightloss. When I ate a more junk food style diet all I wanted to do was sleep. There were days that I would eat pizza and want to go to bed right after.


*both diets were at about the same caloric value, but I would a few more lbs eating healthy, which can most likely be attributed to my increased gym activity.

Have you considered that you may have gluten sensitivity? I just suggest that, because pizza crust and many other forms of 'junk' carbohydrates are high in gluten.

QuietBloom

If you are fairly new here, be aware of what we call trolls. They have nothing to do all day so they post on this site silly things... Pay no attention. You can message to not have to deal with it. It is a big world, many strange people.

I assume you mean the people who point out that your posts about diet and nutrition are full of baloney? They are preforming a public service.

Akimajuktuq

But, I would imagine that the average person would lose more quickly on a healthy diet.

1) Your definition of "healthy diet" is not everyone's.
2) The world does not work according to your imagination.

Yeah, and you think the importance of micronutrients is "overemphasized". Whatever. There's a hell of a lot of people walking around that are eating too much and still malnourished. Hence all the obesity and illness. Been there, done that. Have the t shirt.

jonnythan

But, I would imagine that the average person would lose more quickly on a healthy diet.

1) Your definition of "healthy diet" is not everyone's.
2) The world does not work according to your imagination.

Yeah, and you think the importance of micronutrients is "overemphasized". Whatever. There's a hell of a lot of people walking around that are eating too much and still malnourished. Hence all the obesity and illness. Been there, done that. Have the t shirt.

Obesity doesn't come from being malnourished. It's quite the opposite.

That's why micronutrients are overemphasized, anyway. Obesity is the result of improper macronutrient intake.

QuietBloom

Same weight loss, but you will lose more muscle mass eating just the junk

Not if you hit your macros.

QuietBloom

It is easy to see who the trolls are. They have thousands of posts. But sometimes they make new identities. The same person has many identities. MFP advises to report these people.

There are many people who believe that it is possible that the food industry places people on these sites... food for thought.

First: Your nuts. Second: You can't seem to figure out how to reply to a post.

Interesting...

QuietBloom

Do we know each other? :laugh: :laugh:

Excluding the last sentence, this is MY story... how did you know?

When I first lost weight I ate whatever I wanted with in my calorie means and I lost weight. Then I switched to eating more balanced. I felt better overall, I still lost weight, but not fast.

The other thing I learned about myself is if I over exercised (I was training for a marathon) I NEVER lost weight or inches, no matter how many calories I burned or how I ate. Over exercising causes me to have a suppressed immune system making me sick.

Too much cardio destroys muscle mass (it is catabolic)--not good for calorie burning. It also "teaches" your body to be VERY efficient in the way that it uses calories--not good for calorie burning. Weight-lifting (either body weight or actual weights) on the other hand, causes bigger muscles (it is anabolic) which burn more calories. In addition to the immune-system dysfunction which you have cited, that's the real reason why you don't want to do too much cardio (unless you like it and are willing to put up with the liabilities).

HUGE post fail. *sigh*

QuietBloom

But, I would imagine that the average person would lose more quickly on a healthy diet.

1) Your definition of "healthy diet" is not everyone's.
2) The world does not work according to your imagination.

Yeah, and you think the importance of micronutrients is "overemphasized". Whatever. There's a hell of a lot of people walking around that are eating too much and still malnourished. Hence all the obesity and illness. Been there, done that. Have the t shirt.

Obesity doesn't come from being malnourished. It's quite the opposite.

That's why micronutrients are overemphasized, anyway. Obesity is the result of improper macronutrient intake.

Yet obese people can still be malnourished.

jonnythan

First: Your nuts.

It's impolite to talk about others' nuts.

Akimajuktuq

But, I would imagine that the average person would lose more quickly on a healthy diet.

1) Your definition of "healthy diet" is not everyone's.
2) The world does not work according to your imagination.

Yeah, and you think the importance of micronutrients is "overemphasized". Whatever. There's a hell of a lot of people walking around that are eating too much and still malnourished. Hence all the obesity and illness. Been there, done that. Have the t shirt.

Obesity doesn't come from being malnourished. It's quite the opposite.

That's why micronutrients are overemphasized, anyway. Obesity is the result of improper macronutrient intake.

What makes me see red is when people tell me I am wrong about my own experience.

Yes, improper macro nutrient intake was the START of the problem! But not originally because of quantity but because of the "low fat" myth that most of us know so well. So avoiding fat and eating a ton of "healthy" carbs is what got me headed towards a life long struggle with health and obesity....

Here's my example: since changing WHAT I eat I have resolved a long list of illnesses with ZERO willpower and little effort. Pre-diabetes, severe depression, anxiety, binge eating disorder, sleep disorder, chronic joint pain, chronic neurological disorders.... on and on an on. How else did I CURE a supposedly psychological disorders of binge eating and without counselling, willpower, medications (all of which are completely useless-for me) without the answer being NUTRIENTS? So whether you believe in it or not, it is MY experience.

Being morbidly obese and not being able to stop eating is a real physical symptom of MALNOURISHMENT. Yes, you are in the majority of people who think that can't be possible, but I'm here to tell you that YES IT IS.

jonnythan

But, I would imagine that the average person would lose more quickly on a healthy diet.

1) Your definition of "healthy diet" is not everyone's.
2) The world does not work according to your imagination.

Yeah, and you think the importance of micronutrients is "overemphasized". Whatever. There's a hell of a lot of people walking around that are eating too much and still malnourished. Hence all the obesity and illness. Been there, done that. Have the t shirt.

Obesity doesn't come from being malnourished. It's quite the opposite.

That's why micronutrients are overemphasized, anyway. Obesity is the result of improper macronutrient intake.

Yet obese people can still be malnourished.

Well I suppose that technically all obese people are by definition malnourished. Mal- as a prefix simply means bad or wrong. Obese people are overnourished. But it's fairly rare for obese people to suffer from insufficient nutrient intake of any kind.

Jodiec92

Yep-I lost over 50lbs cutting back on calories and eating fast food 3-5 times a week, lots of frozen dinners, low fat/low calorie 'diet' foods, guzzling diet soda etc etc. I also didn't do any type of exercise while I was actively losing. Blood work done during this time has never been better, including no longer having a glucose level in the pre-diabetic range.


After I went into maintenance I tried 'clean eating' and the only thing I got out of it was I became obsessive over what I ate, for the first time in my life, stressed out and frustrated. I didn't magically feel better cutting out the foods I enjoyed and I didn't look better. I did lose my period and my hair started falling out though. My sleep got messed up too (I got sucked into the 'clean'/whole foods low meat/dairy thing and my fat intake dropped dramatically). I've ditched that and have gone back to eating how I like, watching calories, aiming to hit macros and enjoying life and maintenance.

I love that you said this because he same thing happened to me. Only thing is I got stressed from it that I ended up binging and gaining a ton. Now am working on eating whatever in a cal range and I'm happier.

jonnythan

Yes, improper macro nutrient intake was the START of the problem! But not originally because of quantity but because of the "low fat" myth that most of us know so well. So avoiding fat and eating a ton of "healthy" carbs is what got me headed towards a life long struggle with health and obesity....

Carbs and fat are macronutrients. It doesn't sound like your problems were the result of poor vitamin intake.

CharChary

I love this thread. I consider myself a clean-eater (maybe not to the EXTREME, but I definitely eat a lot of fruits, vegetables, etc.) and feel terribly guilty when I eat something maybe not considered clean.

_EndGame_

If we forgo the body's necessity for essential nutrients then my answer is below:


There is suggestive evidence that indicates there may be a link between certain nutrients and their ability to increase the body's motabolism. I'm not certain how legitimate this all is, but if there is truth, then it would make a difference in weightloss. If this is true, the the quality of the calories would matter greatly, however if this is false, then it wouldn't matter at all as your body breaks down most macro nutrients into the same pieces anyways regardless of their quality.... for the most part

However, from personal experience, I noticed significent differences when adjusting the quality of calories I consumed. the main one being, the amount of energy I had to actually go to the gym. After a few days of eating a more natural diet (fruits veggies etc) I found myself wanting to be active. This in turn boosted my weightloss. When I ate a more junk food style diet all I wanted to do was sleep. There were days that I would eat pizza and want to go to bed right after.


*both diets were at about the same caloric value, but I would a few more lbs eating healthy, which can most likely be attributed to my increased gym activity.

^^^^ What this guy said

If you ate 1500 calories worth of bacon and doughnuts, you would probably still be hungry, due to the small amount you would have in comparison to fruit/veggies, etc. I too dislike having to eat "clean" constantly, depriving myself of foods I enjoy, as opposed to foods that are "good" for me, but I do find I have far more energy whilst eating "clean" than if I ate pizza or something else that is deemed unhealthy.

After 7 months, I've actually grown to craving "clean" foods over takeaway food/processed foods. I enjoy eating fruit and veg, whereas at one point, I would go for "junk" over fruit or veg. Still though, I do enjoy the odd Resses peanut butter cup or Chinese takeout!

QuietBloom

I love this thread. I consider myself a clean-eater (maybe not to the EXTREME, but I definitely eat a lot of fruits, vegetables, etc.) and feel terribly guilty when I eat something maybe not considered clean.

You don't feel this is a problem? No one should feel guilty about eating something. That is one of the pitfalls of 'clean' eating (as other posters have already pointed out).

Joanne_Moniz

I believe that excessive sugar and fat are bad for you, however my question isn't about whether certain things are good/bad/stupid/healthy to eat, my question is just on basic biology/physiology etc.

Question: (this is for the sake of argument, and I am not intending to try EITHER extremes of diet)

Will a person lose weight at the same rate if you eat 1500 cals of bacon and donuts per day, as if you ate 1500 cals of healthy foods (veggies, lean proteins, grains, whatever you deem to be healthy)?

People always say "calories in, calories out" but I wonder if it is really true. I know everyone has a theory, but does anyone have an actual personal experience where they changed from eating "whatever they wanted" to "eating clean" or "eating healthy," or changed in the reverse direction (possibly when starting to maintain?)

I know everyone likes to quote "calories in, calories out," but I am interested in personal experience instead of ideas and theories and internet blogs. Anyone with personal experience in changing the QUALITY of their diet, please tell me: when you changed the QUALITY of your diet, in what way did you change your diet, how did it affect your weight loss, if at all?

Just curious to what people's actual experiences have been with this.

Thanks in advance!

Voodoo Lady

Joanne_Moniz

Fortunately for all the na sayers... we have proof! Try reducing your sugar to 10 percent of your calories and see what happens and see it happen FAST!