Fast Food Workers Striking?!?!?
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And also because George Bush.
LOLsigh
:huh:0 -
Here's my 2 cents as a social worker....Not everyone is meant to go to college and of those who don't they all can't get into higher paying/lower education jobs like construction. America, as well as other post-industrialized countries, have service based economies which means a lot of people who are working at gas stations, in the food industry, in our stores and shopping malls, farm labor, custodial and other such LOW paying jobs. You CANNOT support a family on less than about $12 an hour (heavily dependent on where you live...it would be much more in a big city) There is a whole multitude of reasons for what keeps people in poverty and one of the biggest reasons is that there really truly is no hope for people barely surviving day to day. The American dream is long gone. Minimum wage must keep up with inflation otherwise we're just fostering more dependency on food-stamps and other welfare programs.0
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Not one day of unions has been good for America. Not one. They bombed and shot their way into the American workplace. They were terrorists as they are now.
Hahahahaha. Hahahahahahaha!
Wow, this is incredible, this has to be a troll. You have to be entirely ignorant of American history to make a claim like this.0 -
Poor McDonald's. Their employees are saying they want better pay. Even though McDonald's can hire all of these other people who want jobs on a temporary basis, they shouldn't have to do that, because they just shouldn't. People striking don't get paid. Since they are all so replaceable, why are we concerned about McDonald's?
Going just on the raise figure alone, do you really believe the CEO is working 14 million times harder than the employees? You could live the rest of your life comfortably on his raise. So no, I'm not worried that his employees have the gall to say that the work they are doing is earning him a cushy life, so they would like to be able to afford rent and food.
Effort in the USA is not necessarily correlated with salaries. Someone mentioned paramedics making $11 a hour. Does that mean they are making what they worth, or are only people who work jobs we consider unimportant making what they are worth?
One person being able to earn a $14 million raise is only possible through people at the top making grossly inflated sums of money, and that's only possible through underpaying the staff. I don't understand why that's just fine with so many people. If you really believe there is a job that pays a living wage available to every able bodied American within the current system (as implied by all the comments stating people just aren't working to better themselves), by the grace of "higher power" go thee. We have influence over where our lives go. If you really believe you have full control, you are in a comfortable illusion. If you start 10 miles behind everyone else but are expected to finish the race at the same time as everyone else, you'd probably wonder if it was possible, or if the race was worth it, and you'd almost certainly be feeling like this freaking race is rigged.
Bolded:
No, he's not working 14,000,000 times harder but the CEOs skills are 14,000,000 million times rarer than the ability to work a fast food shift is. Not just anyone can do it. You have to have the training, experience and talent to pull off this sort of job. You can't just walk in off the street with no background like you can for a McDonalds job.
Apples and oranges, you're comparing them.
Lol CEOs skills are 14,000,00 rarer.
No- not anyone can be a CEO. But you can increase your chances by
a. being born a man. Really, I recommend this. Its useful in almost all aspects of life.
b. be born into a family and circumstance of privilege
c. be white
d. be encouraged to do an MBA or lesser business degree- hopefully paid for by wealthy and supportive parents
e. learn to network real good at the bar with the boys.
Sorry common McDonalds workers! Shoulda tried harder!
And when you do happen to see a CEO who dosen't seem exceptionally bright or exceptionally exceptional- they are prolly just hiding their incredible skills.
a-c sounds like you have a chip on your shoulder. There are women CEOs, ones that weren't born to families of privilege and ones that aren't white.
d You don't think CEOs should have MBAs? Why?
e. Networking is important in many businesses. It is a skill in and of itself. Why do you dislike this?
Bolded: First it's apples and oranges, now it's oversimplification. McDonalds is well known for promoting from within (local managerial positions). If they do work hard, if they do try harder, then can get paid more. It's a great system, rewarding effort instead of something ridiculous like rewarding time in.
You need this: http://whatever.scalzi.com/2012/05/15/straight-white-male-the-lowest-difficulty-setting-there-is/
That doesn't change my responses to a-c.
Massive sigh. There is no chip on my shoulder. Thanks to being a straight white woman who went to an expensive private school and what we call 'sandstone university'. As a result I have jumped rungs in my career ladder, am paid well for someone my age and have had opportunities to leave my mark in the world that I never expected at this age.
Sure, I've worked hard. I've worked more 7 day weeks than 5 day weeks. I'm no stranger to a 12 hour work day and I network like a boss. But I'm sure there are a lot of people who weren't as lucky as me that would do the exact same if their circumstance had allowed them. I have the skills that I do, not just because I work hard, but because I was born into relative privilege.
The reason that the overwhelming number of CEOs are straight white men (I never, ever suggested that there were no women or members of a minority amongst the top 500) is because privilege exists- not because CEOs are necessarily brilliant or gifted or superhuman.
I would argue the most brilliant people with the most impressive intellectual skills are often in academia or the arts. But the highest paid public servant in most US states is the college baseball/basketball/football/hockey coach.
So raising the minimum wage will stick it to the privileged white man how? Will it remove privilege?
Doesn't matter if privilege is part of it or not. The CEOs making more money in a month than I'll make in a year still have skills that are equal to their pay. If they didn't, then their board of directors would put them out. Self interest, those of the board of directors and the most influential shareholders are going to make sure that their money is being well spent.
Bolded: :laugh: You based this one what exactly? How would you possibly quantify this assertion?
Two completely different arguments. Firstly why CEO pay is so high: You said that CEOs are paid more because they are something like 14 million or billion times more skilled than low paid workers. My point is that skill is one small part of a very big and unfair pie. Twenty people in the one company could be equally wonderfully amazingly skilled. They could all fill the basic criteria. But nineteen are either female and or from an ethnic minority. Statistics show that the one person who is from the ethnic majority and who is male is most likely to be chosen. And also because George Bush.
And the entire 'if ya work hard one day you'll be a billionaire CEO young Timmy' is absolute and utter rubbish in almost all circumstances. Because if Timmy is a poor ethnic child with abusive, drug-addicted parents and no access to higher education, little Timmy could have all the potential in the world and it wouldn't mean anything.
The second argument is against raising the minimum wage- here we have raised the minimum wage to $18.50 per hour. Sky hasn't fallen in. We do, however, have a much lower percentage of the population living in poverty. For reference please see almost all Scandanavian countries
As for believing that there are lots of smart people in academia- personal experience. An opinion matey.
1st bolded: We're just going to have to agree to disagree. We disagree so greatly on the fundamentals of this equation that we might as well start talking religion, we'll probably get further on that one.
2nd bolded: That's what we'll have to say about this entire thread. We've all get em and what comes out of them is rarely anything but crap (including myself before anyone gets indignant).
Have a good night (no sarcasm). It's been interesting (no sarcasm).
Edit: You cannot compare Scandinavian countries to the US. Apples and oranges once again. Just wanted to add this as one more point on which we simply disagree.0 -
And also because George Bush.
LOLsigh
:huh:
Just one shining example of the shareholders reelecting the most skilled candidate, with the benefit of a four year performance review.0 -
Will all of you who live in an America that is a meritocracy tell me how to get to your alternate universe? Because I might prefer your version better than the reality.0
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Yes, which considering how fast the population has grown, seeing the percentage of people in poverty going up is a ridiculous increase. There are 20,000,000 more people living in poverty in the US today compared to 20 years ago. 20 years ago it was about 13% of the population, today it's about 16%.Quick question: Has the percentage of the population in poverty grown in the past 20 years?0 -
What no one has mentioned is the purchase power of the American dollar. The problem is not that people don't earn enough money, it's that money doesn't buy what it used to. The post-Federal Reserve inflated dollar is worth only two cents compared to the pre-Federal Reserve dollar.0
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This is the most clueless post in this entire thread. Completely clueless.Not one day of unions has been good for America. Not one. They bombed and shot their way into the American workplace. They were terrorists as they are now.0 -
If a company is experiencing a temporary squeeze they can cut costs without hurting workers.
There is a reality around the proportion of cost within a business though. Clearly it's subject to industry but generally headcount is the largest single cost within a business, so the benefits from reducing costs in that area are far more significant than elsewhere.
The other big cost is generally property, it's possible to reduce costs here but not significantly without either reducing footprint or moving. there are significant upfront costs in both of those cases, and there are other consequences. Reducing footprint is likely to lead to headcount reduction anyway, and moving may have an impact is location is important, as in the hospitality industry where location is pretty much everything.If you don't care about working people then there is nothing more that can be said. I've never had it in me to look at disadvantage and exploitation and feel comfortable about it. I never will.
Personally I think that unions are great in principle, and some are far more effective than others. Those that are led by people who have a solid understanding of business and can have a grown up discussion are far better placed to support their members.0 -
If the CEO were to give up his entire annual salary and distribute it equally to the entire workforce, how much more would each worker receive?
If the hourly wage were to be increased to $15/hour, what would the total amount be?
These are sincere questions...I honestly don't know the answer (because I'm missing some important pieces of the equation)...but I think these answers might give proper economic perspective to the last few pages of discussion.0 -
Reading most of these post make me realize that now more than ever, I am losing my faith in humanity. Work for what you want people, dont demand it.0
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Once again.. this is an easy answer.What I don't get in this thread, people are complaining that McDonald's workers want more money, and justifying their complaints based on the fact that they themselves are underpaid.
So... Why is it the argument is MCDONALD'S WORKERS SHOULD GET PAID LESS! and not WE ALL SHOULD BE PAID MORE!
Personally, I feel an EMT should be getting paid a helluva lot more than $13 an hour. People who stock shelves at Walmart for a couple years on the overnight shift get paid that.
And then, why is ok for CEOs to just give themselves raises for whatever they want, it's perfectly ok for corporate executives to hand themselves millions and sometimes billions in bonus checks, but it's horrible that an employee should be paid enough money that they can afford a place to live and food to eat?
If the pay is too little, FIND ANOTHER JOB!!!!!!
I have been reading a LOT of excuses as to why this is impossible.
The motivated ones will suceed while the unmotivated ones will continue to make minimum wage.
It is not horrible for an employee to want more money. They just need to better themselfs in order to do it.
I am sorry but, there is no way a guy lifting french fries from a basket should make more then an E-1 Private in the Army.0 -
If the CEO were to give up his entire annual salary and distribute it equally to the entire workforce, how much more would each worker receive?
If the hourly wage were to be increased to $15/hour, what would the total amount be?
These are sincere questions...I honestly don't know the answer (because I'm missing some important pieces of the equation)...but I think these answers might give proper economic perspective to the last few pages of discussion.
McDonalds employs 1.7 million people. So if we got rid of the CEOs salary and evenly distributed it, those 1.7 million people (assuming a 14 mil CEO salary) get an $8 raise for an entire year or a .023 cent a day raise or a .002 cent an hour raise.
So 15.02 if they raised the minimum wage to $15 and also distributed the CEOs salary.0 -
[/quote] I am sorry but, there is no way a guy lifting french fries from a basket should make more then an E-1 Private in the Army.
[/quote]
Wasn't getting back into this today but that is a great statement!!!!! Although I would have said marines...lol0 -
Wow...thats a lot of math!If the CEO were to give up his entire annual salary and distribute it equally to the entire workforce, how much more would each worker receive?
If the hourly wage were to be increased to $15/hour, what would the total amount be?
These are sincere questions...I honestly don't know the answer (because I'm missing some important pieces of the equation)...but I think these answers might give proper economic perspective to the last few pages of discussion.
McDonalds employs 1.7 million people. So if we got rid of the CEOs salary and evenly distributed it, those 1.7 million people (assuming a 14 mil CEO salary) get an $8 raise for an entire year or a .023 cent a day raise or a .002 cent an hour raise.
So 15.02 if they raised the minimum wage to $15 and also distributed the CEOs salary.0 -
Will all of you who live in an America that is a meritocracy tell me how to get to your alternate universe? Because I might prefer your version better than the reality.
Sure, here is the road map. It started by making good grades in high school rather than going out and partying/getting drunk/getting laid/whatever. Said good grades, I used to earn a full academic scholarship to a major university. At said university, I got a degree that was in high demand with a very well forcasted demand growth (electrical and computer engineering). Using aforementioned degree, I obtained an engineering job. In which my pay has increased with merit. Road map to a meritocracy.
Good thing it was all handed to me.0 -
Poor McDonald's. Their employees are saying they want better pay. Even though McDonald's can hire all of these other people who want jobs on a temporary basis, they shouldn't have to do that, because they just shouldn't. People striking don't get paid. Since they are all so replaceable, why are we concerned about McDonald's?
Going just on the raise figure alone, do you really believe the CEO is working 14 million times harder than the employees? You could live the rest of your life comfortably on his raise. So no, I'm not worried that his employees have the gall to say that the work they are doing is earning him a cushy life, so they would like to be able to afford rent and food.
Effort in the USA is not necessarily correlated with salaries. Someone mentioned paramedics making $11 a hour. Does that mean they are making what they worth, or are only people who work jobs we consider unimportant making what they are worth?
One person being able to earn a $14 million raise is only possible through people at the top making grossly inflated sums of money, and that's only possible through underpaying the staff. I don't understand why that's just fine with so many people. If you really believe there is a job that pays a living wage available to every able bodied American within the current system (as implied by all the comments stating people just aren't working to better themselves), by the grace of "higher power" go thee. We have influence over where our lives go. If you really believe you have full control, you are in a comfortable illusion. If you start 10 miles behind everyone else but are expected to finish the race at the same time as everyone else, you'd probably wonder if it was possible, or if the race was worth it, and you'd almost certainly be feeling like this freaking race is rigged.
Bolded:
No, he's not working 14,000,000 times harder but the CEOs skills are 14,000,000 million times rarer than the ability to work a fast food shift is. Not just anyone can do it. You have to have the training, experience and talent to pull off this sort of job. You can't just walk in off the street with no background like you can for a McDonalds job.
Apples and oranges, you're comparing them.
Lol CEOs skills are 14,000,00 rarer.
No- not anyone can be a CEO. But you can increase your chances by
a. being born a man. Really, I recommend this. Its useful in almost all aspects of life.
b. be born into a family and circumstance of privilege
c. be white
d. be encouraged to do an MBA or lesser business degree- hopefully paid for by wealthy and supportive parents
e. learn to network real good at the bar with the boys.
Sorry common McDonalds workers! Shoulda tried harder!
And when you do happen to see a CEO who dosen't seem exceptionally bright or exceptionally exceptional- they are prolly just hiding their incredible skills.
AS a white male born upper middle class i gotta agree. it realyl is sweet.
Reminds me of the louie Ck bit where he talks about a white male can basically go back in time to anywhere and it will be great for them.....but he sure doesnt want to go time traveling into the future, cause it probably wont be as sweet for us lol0 -
I am sorry but, there is no way a guy lifting french fries from a basket should make more then an E-1 Private in the Army.
[/quote]
Wasn't getting back into this today but that is a great statement!!!!! Although I would have said marines...lol
[/quote]
You're right, military is underpaid. That's not that fault of fast food workers though.0 -
I am sorry but, there is no way a guy lifting french fries from a basket should make more then an E-1 Private in the Army.
Given that an E-1 hasn't actually completed training I'm not convinced that's a reasonable comparison. I'd also observe that "army" captures several hundred trades, some of which are highly skilled, some less so.
But it does beg the question, how does one compare relative worth of jobs? Is is reasonable that a cook in the army is paid the same as a linguist, vehicle mechanic or crime scene investigator in the army?
Clearly it's not about productivity, as most military and other public sector don't generate revenue. However much of the public sector is about creating an environment where the economy can actually operate effectively.
What;'s interesting about the whole thread is that much of the argument is about relative worth, but nobody has credibly challenged the idea of withdrawal of labour as a legitimate means of negotiation. Except inasmuch as recognising that where one is discussing a relatively low skill role the benefit of withdrawing labour is very limited.0
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