naturally thin people
Replies
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"In my opinion, control of weight is much more complex and metabolism is just one aspect of it."
You are still whistling in the dark. Metabolism variations are absolutely inconsequential for the average otherwise-healthy individual trying to lose weight.
Now you are backing off and saying metabolism is just "one aspect" of it.
I won't even give you that.
Until all these studies make it into Guyton or some other mainstream physiology textbook as verified concepts, I'm not going to waste time on it.
And folks who are obese shouldn't pay any attention to them.
The should pay attention to all these "naturally" thin people, and they will find these people have learned to control their impulse to eat, and appreciate that having an empty stomach is not the end of the world.
You can change how your body and brain react to "hunger".
"Breakfast IS the least important meal of the day" and sets you up for what can only be termed a chronic food addiction state. Dr. Hagan is right.
Backing off? Not at all. Of course metabolism is one aspect of weight control. When did I say that it wasn't? It's not however, the only aspect, which is what you are saying, and I'm certain that you are very, very wrong.
You clearly don't (or aren't able to) comprehend what I'm saying, much of which is accepted in the field, included in a number of textbooks (I gave you one example) and in my professional experience, part of the curriculum for medical students, clinical dietitians and other allied health professionals. If you're not prepared to even attempt to educate yourself beyond your physiology textbook, it's a waste of my time trying to communicate with you.
ETA: Heehee, I just noticed that you contradicted yourself. Chronic food addiction? Oh geez.........0 -
"In my opinion, control of weight is much more complex and metabolism is just one aspect of it."
You are still whistling in the dark. Metabolism variations are absolutely inconsequential for the average otherwise-healthy individual trying to lose weight.
Now you are backing off and saying metabolism is just "one aspect" of it.
I won't even give you that.
Until all these studies make it into Guyton or some other mainstream physiology textbook as verified concepts, I'm not going to waste time on it.
And folks who are obese shouldn't pay any attention to them.
The should pay attention to all these "naturally" thin people, and they will find these people have learned to control their impulse to eat, and appreciate that having an empty stomach is not the end of the world.
You can change how your body and brain react to "hunger".
"Breakfast IS the least important meal of the day" and sets you up for what can only be termed a chronic food addiction state. Dr. Hagan is right.
Backing off? Not at all. Of course metabolism is one aspect of weight control. When did I say that it wasn't? It's not however, the only aspect, which is what you are saying, and I'm certain that you are very, very wrong.
You clearly don't (or aren't able to) comprehend what I'm saying, much of which is accepted in the field, included in a number of textbooks (I gave you one example) and in my professional experience, part of the curriculum for medical students, clinical dietitians and other allied health professionals. If you're not prepared to even attempt to educate yourself beyond your physiology textbook, it's a waste of my time trying to communicate with you.
ETA: Heehee, I just noticed that you contradicted yourself. Chronic food addiction? Oh geez.........
Aha!
A dietitian.
Figures.
Wrong again Steve.
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"In my opinion, control of weight is much more complex and metabolism is just one aspect of it."
You are still whistling in the dark. Metabolism variations are absolutely inconsequential for the average otherwise-healthy individual trying to lose weight.
Now you are backing off and saying metabolism is just "one aspect" of it.
I won't even give you that.
Until all these studies make it into Guyton or some other mainstream physiology textbook as verified concepts, I'm not going to waste time on it.
And folks who are obese shouldn't pay any attention to them.
The should pay attention to all these "naturally" thin people, and they will find these people have learned to control their impulse to eat, and appreciate that having an empty stomach is not the end of the world.
You can change how your body and brain react to "hunger".
"Breakfast IS the least important meal of the day" and sets you up for what can only be termed a chronic food addiction state. Dr. Hagan is right.
Backing off? Not at all. Of course metabolism is one aspect of weight control. When did I say that it wasn't? It's not however, the only aspect, which is what you are saying, and I'm certain that you are very, very wrong.
You clearly don't (or aren't able to) comprehend what I'm saying, much of which is accepted in the field, included in a number of textbooks (I gave you one example) and in my professional experience, part of the curriculum for medical students, clinical dietitians and other allied health professionals. If you're not prepared to even attempt to educate yourself beyond your physiology textbook, it's a waste of my time trying to communicate with you.
ETA: Heehee, I just noticed that you contradicted yourself. Chronic food addiction? Oh geez.........
Aha!
A dietitian.
Figures.
Wrong again Steve.
If you really are a medical professional, you would not contradict what I say, or reduce yourself to straw man arguments and smiley-faces.
If you ARE a medical professional, then you should be ashamed of yourself.
But people who don't get it simply don't know what they don't know.
And I doubt you are obese and trying to lose weight. What is your agenda? Why would you encourage people to think that they are fighting against their own physiology in trying to losing weight?
Those who overweight and sincerely trying to lose weight should read my posts again and learn from them.
I notice whenever we have someone claiming it's all or even partly about metabolism, it never comes with any numbers showing HOW MUCH.
We tend to just get this vague "higher" or "faster", or "slower" and "lower". Well, how much? 20%? 2%? 0.2%? All three of those options could be true, and the truth or untruth of most of the arguments above would be unchanged. What would change though, is whether or not it makes an appreciable difference, which is sort of the ONLY relevant question when you are making a plan.0 -
why0
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Steve0, do you know anything about genetics? The easiest one you could not even answer?0
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Ohh, Steve - I often enjoy the mindless back-and-forth you bring to the forums. However:
This is truly priceless. Shine on you crazy diamond! :flowerforyou:If you really are a medical professional, you would not contradict what I say0 -
LOL.
People don't know what they don't know, and those are usually the most aggressive on boards like these, with clever comebacks and straw man arguments.
But there are no genetically determined thin people out there, bottom line.
But there ARE thin people out there- though they are getting harder and harder to find.
They are not NATURALLY thin, be are thin because of how they have LEARNED to eat and how they have LEARNED to deal with the sensation of an empty stomach.
But don't take my word for it.
Find a thin person and ask he or she details about what they eat, why and when they eat, how much they eat, and their exercise routine- if any. Get down to the nitty gritty.
Even if you are not great friends with them, tell them your concerns about your own weight and I bet they will happily give you a half-hour of their time.
Their metabolism is JUST LIKE yours. No significant difference. Metabolism evolved over a billion years- there is no fat gene or skinny gene.
I'm thin. What's my secret? I eat breakfast every morning and I never, ever have any sensations of an empty stomach-I eat when I feel hungry. Period.
As for what I eat- I eat all the foods. I do no cut any food or food group out and I'm partial to fast food, which is why I eat it at least three times a week. I love Big Macs and I love salads. I love Doritos and I love sweet potatoes. Haven't met a food that I haven't loved yet :drinker:
As for how much I eat-I eat until full and then I stop. Repeat as necessary. Some days that's a whole lot of food and other days, not so much. As for exercise I run 4 miles a week, at a slow pace, and I do 90 minutes a week of an at home strength program. That's it.
Oh, and I don't count calories anymore. So why am I thin now? Because I eat when hungry and stop when full. I eat a variety off foods, and eat the foods I enjoy in moderation. I still measure out portion sizes of higher calorie foods (like nuts). I'm not afraid to turn down food if I'm not hungry. I weigh myself every day and keep a chart. I've learned how my body works and I now listen to the cues it gives me.
I'm 35 years old, have had three children, and have a bmi in the 19 range. My body fat estimate is somewhere in the 18-19% range. My last blood test results came back pretty much perfect. I'm healthy and happy (and just in case anyone missed my previous statement-I eat breakfast every day and I never, ever go hungry)
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They are not NATURALLY thin, be are thin because of how they have LEARNED to eat and how they have LEARNED to deal with the sensation of an empty stomach.
I'm one of those thin folks and I ate as much in one sitting (if not more) than my 220 lb 6'4" ex-BIL, who was a notoriously big eater. I ate that way because I had LEARNED I could do so and not gain any weight.
How did I deal with the sensation of an empty stomach? I filled it Outside of regular meal times, that usually meant some sort of sweet treat, like a couple of donuts or a chocolate bar.
Yes, I'm a bit of a genetic anomaly and somebody should probably have studied my DNA to isolate the skinny gene. However, I didn't often consult medical professional in my younger years because I am ridiculously healthy, so no one really paid that much attention to it.
ETA: and I haven't eaten breakfast since I hit puberty, which was oh... about 38 years ago. Lol.0 -
Steve says -But you do not understand how the scientific community works.
Oh really? I've only worked in it my entire career, and as I have previously stated, have 8 research papers with my name on them.
You put your foot in your mouth so often I'm surprised you don't have hoof and mouth disease.0 -
My family is like this. Even those who eat a lot rarely become more than 40 lbs overweight. In other families, it's not uncommon to see people 150 lbs overweight. A lot of it has to do with insulin sensitivity of muscle vs. fat cells. This regulates hunger, and unless you override it and eat way too much, you won't gain much weight. Some of it also has to do with NEAT, which is the small movements that we make that burn energy. Some people just fidget more. Some also has to do with heat production. Some people's bodies try to minimize fat gain, and if body heat is needed, the extra calories can go into heat production. This is what is meant by "faster metabolism". In other words, wasting more calories. A lot also has to do with the eating habits you learned. For example, I was always told to only eat when I was hungry, and the food I ate growing up was very healthy food in general. Carb/fat/protein ratios can also make a huge difference.
Thin people who can eat whatever they want but don't work out aren't eating very much because they're not very hungry. Thin people who eat a lot and still don't gain weight are either exercising or moving a lot. It's that simple. Maintenance is very hard to achieve and maintain. We're usually either in a deficit or a surplus at all times.
I find it funny when some overweight people think it's funny that thin people have to eat a surplus in order to bulk up. Well, they did the same thing in order to gain weight. They just didn't realize they were doing it.
It's really that simple...thyroid or adrenal problems notwithstanding.0 -
My family is like this. Even those who eat a lot rarely become more than 40 lbs overweight. In other families, it's not uncommon to see people 150 lbs overweight. A lot of it has to do with insulin sensitivity of muscle vs. fat cells. This regulates hunger, and unless you override it and eat way too much, you won't gain much weight. Some of it also has to do with NEAT, which is the small movements that we make that burn energy. Some people just fidget more. Some also has to do with heat production. Some people's bodies try to minimize fat gain, and if body heat is needed, the extra calories can go into heat production. This is what is meant by "faster metabolism". In other words, wasting more calories. A lot also has to do with the eating habits you learned. For example, I was always told to only eat when I was hungry, and the food I ate growing up was very healthy food in general. Carb/fat/protein ratios can also make a huge difference.
Thin people who can eat whatever they want but don't work out aren't eating very much because they're not very hungry. Thin people who eat a lot and still don't gain weight are either exercising or moving a lot. It's that simple. Maintenance is very hard to achieve and maintain. We're usually either in a deficit or a surplus at all times.
I find it funny when some overweight people think it's funny that thin people have to eat a surplus in order to bulk up. Well, they did the same thing in order to gain weight. They just didn't realize they were doing it.
It's really that simple...thyroid or adrenal problems notwithstanding.
Some of what you said is correct. Some of it is broscience.0 -
I dont know, you have people that swear by calorie in and calorie out and there is NO WAY those naturally skinny people are eating 4k of junk a day and just sitting around....Even though, you know, we all know people WHO DO THAT.........
When I was a teenager I went to school half days, I sat in my room smoking weed , drinking nothing but soda and beer, eating hot Cheetos and playing video games 24/7 (when I wasn't barely at school). I stayed 130 pounds from like 14-19 years old im 5'8. Then I proceeded to gain like 60 pounds in one year, so I went to the doctor, they did all these tests and proceeded to tell me I had a nodule on my thyroid that basically tanked my metabolism. I got on meds and lost like 30 pounds in a year. But now I eat 1400 calories a day and stay at 170......
Of course its like "oh you dont log correctly" "oh you aren't with them 24/7 to see what they eat" blah blah blah, they try to throw in variables to deny peoples issues. Calories in calories out is 100% dammit!!! LOL0 -
I dont know, you have people that swear by calorie in and calorie out and there is NO WAY those naturally skinny people are eating 4k of junk a day and just sitting around....Even though, you know, we all know people WHO DO THAT.........
When I was a teenager I went to school half days, I sat in my room smoking weed , drinking nothing but soda and beer, eating hot Cheetos and playing video games 24/7 (when I wasn't barely at school). I stayed 130 pounds from like 14-19 years old im 5'8. Then I proceeded to gain like 60 pounds in one year, so I went to the doctor, they did all these tests and proceeded to tell me I had a nodule on my thyroid that basically tanked my metabolism. I got on meds and lost like 30 pounds in a year. But now I eat 1400 calories a day and stay at 170......
Of course its like "oh you dont log correctly" "oh you aren't with them 24/7 to see what they eat" blah blah blah, they try to throw in variables to deny peoples issues. Calories in calories out is 100% dammit!!! LOL
Not true. Everyone is pretty much aware that thyroid and other hormonal issues can effect metabolism. But these cases are extremely rare.0 -
No they aren't actually very rare. Its also not uncommon to know someone who does nothing but drink beer, eat fast food and sit around, while not gaining one pound.I dont know, you have people that swear by calorie in and calorie out and there is NO WAY those naturally skinny people are eating 4k of junk a day and just sitting around....Even though, you know, we all know people WHO DO THAT.........
When I was a teenager I went to school half days, I sat in my room smoking weed , drinking nothing but soda and beer, eating hot Cheetos and playing video games 24/7 (when I wasn't barely at school). I stayed 130 pounds from like 14-19 years old im 5'8. Then I proceeded to gain like 60 pounds in one year, so I went to the doctor, they did all these tests and proceeded to tell me I had a nodule on my thyroid that basically tanked my metabolism. I got on meds and lost like 30 pounds in a year. But now I eat 1400 calories a day and stay at 170......
Of course its like "oh you dont log correctly" "oh you aren't with them 24/7 to see what they eat" blah blah blah, they try to throw in variables to deny peoples issues. Calories in calories out is 100% dammit!!! LOL
Not true. Everyone is pretty much aware that thyroid and other hormonal issues can effect metabolism. But these cases are extremely rare.0 -
Steve0, do you know anything about genetics? The easiest one you could not even answer?
No, SteveO obviously doesn't, so his only comeback is to insult. It's a waste of time even trying to reason with him.0 -
As usual, wrong again. As an example, evolution of the salivary amylase gene occurred as recently as 20K years ago. Anyway, as I said earlier, it's pointless arguing with you about genetics because you clearly have no clue.LOL.
People don't know what they don't know, and those are usually the most aggressive on boards like these, with clever comebacks and straw man arguments.
But there are no genetically determined thin people out there, bottom line.
But there ARE thin people out there- though they are getting harder and harder to find.
They are not NATURALLY thin, be are thin because of how they have LEARNED to eat and how they have LEARNED to deal with the sensation of an empty stomach.
But don't take my word for it.
Find a thin person and ask he or she details about what they eat, why and when they eat, how much they eat, and their exercise routine- if any. Get down to the nitty gritty.
Even if you are not great friends with them, tell them your concerns about your own weight and I bet they will happily give you a half-hour of their time.
Their metabolism is JUST LIKE yours. No significant difference. Metabolism evolved over a billion years- there is no fat gene or skinny gene.
I'm interested in hearing more about your 'food addiction' idea which apparently occurs only in some people who eat breakfast and not others. Can you explain your reasoning behind this individual variability?
BTW Steve, physiology and metabolic biochemistry, along with advanced genetics were an integral part of my education (I taught all of them at undergraduate level early on in my career) so perhaps my 'aggression' is because I'm irritated with your claims of superior knowledge.0 -
No they aren't actually very rare. Its also not uncommon to know someone who does nothing but drink beer, eat fast food and sit around, while not gaining one pound.I dont know, you have people that swear by calorie in and calorie out and there is NO WAY those naturally skinny people are eating 4k of junk a day and just sitting around....Even though, you know, we all know people WHO DO THAT.........
When I was a teenager I went to school half days, I sat in my room smoking weed , drinking nothing but soda and beer, eating hot Cheetos and playing video games 24/7 (when I wasn't barely at school). I stayed 130 pounds from like 14-19 years old im 5'8. Then I proceeded to gain like 60 pounds in one year, so I went to the doctor, they did all these tests and proceeded to tell me I had a nodule on my thyroid that basically tanked my metabolism. I got on meds and lost like 30 pounds in a year. But now I eat 1400 calories a day and stay at 170......
Of course its like "oh you dont log correctly" "oh you aren't with them 24/7 to see what they eat" blah blah blah, they try to throw in variables to deny peoples issues. Calories in calories out is 100% dammit!!! LOL
Not true. Everyone is pretty much aware that thyroid and other hormonal issues can effect metabolism. But these cases are extremely rare.
Not uncommon, eh?
Because all the people I know who don't measure food are overweight.
In fact most of the people I know are overweight.
Where are all the not uncommon people located, and are they really not uncommon, or are they really just more remarkable?0 -
No they aren't actually very rare. Its also not uncommon to know someone who does nothing but drink beer, eat fast food and sit around, while not gaining one pound.I dont know, you have people that swear by calorie in and calorie out and there is NO WAY those naturally skinny people are eating 4k of junk a day and just sitting around....Even though, you know, we all know people WHO DO THAT.........
When I was a teenager I went to school half days, I sat in my room smoking weed , drinking nothing but soda and beer, eating hot Cheetos and playing video games 24/7 (when I wasn't barely at school). I stayed 130 pounds from like 14-19 years old im 5'8. Then I proceeded to gain like 60 pounds in one year, so I went to the doctor, they did all these tests and proceeded to tell me I had a nodule on my thyroid that basically tanked my metabolism. I got on meds and lost like 30 pounds in a year. But now I eat 1400 calories a day and stay at 170......
Of course its like "oh you dont log correctly" "oh you aren't with them 24/7 to see what they eat" blah blah blah, they try to throw in variables to deny peoples issues. Calories in calories out is 100% dammit!!! LOL
Not true. Everyone is pretty much aware that thyroid and other hormonal issues can effect metabolism. But these cases are extremely rare.
Not uncommon, eh?
Because all the people I know who don't measure food are overweight.
In fact most of the people I know are overweight.
Where are all the not uncommon people located, and are they really not uncommon, or are they really just more remarkable?
They were all over this topic with their stories but all you guys can do is denounce everything they say. So really what is the point?
So every SINGLE person you know who doesn't measure is overweight? lol0 -
Lol, you guys are funny. I am 5' 7, 105-110, and in high school. The walking I do is at school and guess what I do when I get home. I lay down and eat tv dinners, snacks, and then around 8:00 my moms cooks and I eat that, too. You guys are trying to make it seem like being naturally skinny is impossible. It's really not. When I was twelve-thirteen, my mom took me to a anorexia rehab place and asked them to to see if I could gain weight. They gave me high calorie (3000+) for 6 weeks daily, and my weight went up my 2 pounds. I did exactly what I did at home.
(I had to make an account just to post this) I am tired of people targeting skinny ones. This thread is like saying there is no such things as naturally fat.
So you are SAYING you had a scientific study done to back up how you couldn't gain weight? And in 6 weeks when you should of gained way more you gained 2 pounds...Hmmmmm0 -
did anyone discuss the vermont prison study?0
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My husband and my oldest are very thin (but my husband got a belly around 40, still skinny though)
They eat plenty, but they move a lot. My oldest paces non stop and my husband is an extreme leg twitcher. I bet all those little movements add up.0 -
No they aren't actually very rare. Its also not uncommon to know someone who does nothing but drink beer, eat fast food and sit around, while not gaining one pound.I dont know, you have people that swear by calorie in and calorie out and there is NO WAY those naturally skinny people are eating 4k of junk a day and just sitting around....Even though, you know, we all know people WHO DO THAT.........
When I was a teenager I went to school half days, I sat in my room smoking weed , drinking nothing but soda and beer, eating hot Cheetos and playing video games 24/7 (when I wasn't barely at school). I stayed 130 pounds from like 14-19 years old im 5'8. Then I proceeded to gain like 60 pounds in one year, so I went to the doctor, they did all these tests and proceeded to tell me I had a nodule on my thyroid that basically tanked my metabolism. I got on meds and lost like 30 pounds in a year. But now I eat 1400 calories a day and stay at 170......
Of course its like "oh you dont log correctly" "oh you aren't with them 24/7 to see what they eat" blah blah blah, they try to throw in variables to deny peoples issues. Calories in calories out is 100% dammit!!! LOL
Not true. Everyone is pretty much aware that thyroid and other hormonal issues can effect metabolism. But these cases are extremely rare.
Yes, it is rare actually. And the person you perceive to be doing nothing but eating pizza, drinking beer and laying around, is obviously not overeating, is young and still growing, fidgets a lot, or, maybe you don't follow them around 24/7 logging their food intake, so you really DON'T know how much they are eating.0 -
did anyone discuss the vermont prison study?
Do tell.0 -
All these comments regarding metabolism are a complete load of bull. Stop bemoaning being overweight and be mature about it instead of being like the spoilt kid in the playground moan 'its so unfair'.
Metabolism is the most overused excuse of them all and in any case one's metabolism never varies from someone else's to the extent that they can lie down eating 2 tons of pizza a day without putting on any weight. These are just lies that people use to cover up their own bad eating habits.0 -
Steve0, do you know anything about genetics? The easiest one you could not even answer?
No, SteveO obviously doesn't, so his only comeback is to insult. It's a waste of time even trying to reason with him.
I agree. 0 -
My accounting "bible" is $200 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/1118147294/) but no accountant would dream of saying that this book is definitive and sufficient for all cases...
...but the physiology "bible" is only $39 (http://www.amazon.com/Textbook-Medical-Physiology-10th-Edition/dp/B000NAVJ5W) and is, at least according to some, definitive and sufficient for all cases?
Apparently, accounting is more nuanced than doctoring.0 -
Given what transpired in the last 14 years (thanks to accounting) you might be able to make a strong argument.My accounting "bible" is $200 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/1118147294/) but no accountant would dream of saying that this book is definitive and sufficient for all cases...
...but the physiology "bible" is only $39 (http://www.amazon.com/Textbook-Medical-Physiology-10th-Edition/dp/B000NAVJ5W) and is, at least according to some, definitive and sufficient for all cases?
Apparently, accounting is more nuanced than doctoring.0 -
I'm still waiting to hear more about your eating breakfast -> food addiction theory because I'm pretty certain it isn't in your Guytons bible.Steve0, do you know anything about genetics? The easiest one you could not even answer?
No, SteveO obviously doesn't, so his only comeback is to insult. It's a waste of time even trying to reason with him.
I agree.
Personal attacks, straw men, false accusations.
I doubt any of the attackers are actually overweight people sincerely trying to lose weight.
Everything I say is supported by Guyton's, the bible of physiology.
If it isn't in Guyton's, then don't believe it.
And there is NO special gene set that afflicts fat people.
Overweight people and "naturally" thin people are exactly the same genetically, for all intents and purposes.
Can't hide behind that excuse anymore.
The first step in weight loss is to be honest with yourself.
The first step in the weight loss industry is to convince overweight people that they are victims and only YOU and YOUR PROGRAM can help them.0 -
No they aren't actually very rare. Its also not uncommon to know someone who does nothing but drink beer, eat fast food and sit around, while not gaining one pound.I dont know, you have people that swear by calorie in and calorie out and there is NO WAY those naturally skinny people are eating 4k of junk a day and just sitting around....Even though, you know, we all know people WHO DO THAT.........
When I was a teenager I went to school half days, I sat in my room smoking weed , drinking nothing but soda and beer, eating hot Cheetos and playing video games 24/7 (when I wasn't barely at school). I stayed 130 pounds from like 14-19 years old im 5'8. Then I proceeded to gain like 60 pounds in one year, so I went to the doctor, they did all these tests and proceeded to tell me I had a nodule on my thyroid that basically tanked my metabolism. I got on meds and lost like 30 pounds in a year. But now I eat 1400 calories a day and stay at 170......
Of course its like "oh you dont log correctly" "oh you aren't with them 24/7 to see what they eat" blah blah blah, they try to throw in variables to deny peoples issues. Calories in calories out is 100% dammit!!! LOL
Not true. Everyone is pretty much aware that thyroid and other hormonal issues can effect metabolism. But these cases are extremely rare.
Yes, it is rare actually. And the person you perceive to be doing nothing but eating pizza, drinking beer and laying around, is obviously not overeating, is young and still growing, fidgets a lot, or, maybe you don't follow them around 24/7 logging their food intake, so you really DON'T know how much they are eating.
And here you go with the 1000 of reasons, oh well they fidget or your not with them 24 hours a day blah blah blah. NO there are just naturally thin people. lol these fitness forums a joke..0 -
My sister has 3 kids, and is a size 3-4, she is tiny. She has always been thin, but I think she also chases those kids around!0
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