Distance runners: How to work past 90 minutes?

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  • Collier78
    Collier78 Posts: 811 Member
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    right now I'm running on a treadmill

    what?? more power to you. i can barely do 20 minutes on a treadmill. 90 minutes just seems like torture to me.

    You can do 20 minutes? I'm impressed. Seriously, about 5 minutes on a treadmill and I start thinking up creative ways to end it. Many of them aren't even legal. My favorite is when I try to pull the fire alarm using telekinesis.

    ^^This...I have taken to calling it the dreadmill...I'm seriously lucky if I can get 3 miles in on one...
  • Collier78
    Collier78 Posts: 811 Member
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    Ok so seriously just came across the "borderline genius" BS...Dude if it's borderline, it means it ain't genius...Oh to be young and so full of myself again...I'm 35...time to get my walker..
  • eldamiano
    eldamiano Posts: 2,667 Member
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    This would just improve with more practice and time surely?....
  • QueenBishOTUniverse
    QueenBishOTUniverse Posts: 14,121 Member
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    You'll find the two are complementary. You haven't articulated your reasons for doing two HIIT sessions, but improving your run speed is a combination of putting in the miles and some interval training. If you're not getting the base mileage in then the interval training will have less effect.

    Common amongst "three per week" runners is - Long slow, interval session, tempo session.

    Given that you've mentioned a 45 minute threshold for your weekday sessions I'd suggest a fourth session as a good way to increase mileage as well, but you have two sessions to increase the time on before you really need to worry about that.

    For the tempo session, is the goal for that to work on steady pacing or to increase the pace i.e. moving up from a 5 mph to 6 mph pace etc.?

    I think I could reasonably increase my weekday run times to 45 minutes, but moving past that time or adding in a 4th run during the week would be something I would really have to think about. I have a long history of getting over zealous with my workouts and then burning out and crashing hard. I've done really well since this summer with sticking to my workouts, in large part I think because I'm keeping my weekday workouts on a time limit.

    As for the running long distances on a treadmill, maybe I was a lab rat in a past life :tongue: I would never claim it's enjoyable, and I would much prefer an outdoor scenic run, but I've learned how to just focus my brain somewhere else and get it done.
  • lelaspeaks
    lelaspeaks Posts: 163 Member
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    Fuel, water, increase distance in 10% increments weekly, and strength train. Pretty easy and safe if you do it correctly!
  • somefitsomefat
    somefitsomefat Posts: 445 Member
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    That is a long time to be running. Bad for your knees, bad for your muscles, maybe slightly good for your heart. It is up to you if you want to run that long, I suppose.

    Nope: http://www.livescience.com/36241-5-experts-answer-running-bad-knees.html
  • michellekicks
    michellekicks Posts: 3,624 Member
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    You'll find the two are complementary. You haven't articulated your reasons for doing two HIIT sessions, but improving your run speed is a combination of putting in the miles and some interval training. If you're not getting the base mileage in then the interval training will have less effect.

    Common amongst "three per week" runners is - Long slow, interval session, tempo session.

    Given that you've mentioned a 45 minute threshold for your weekday sessions I'd suggest a fourth session as a good way to increase mileage as well, but you have two sessions to increase the time on before you really need to worry about that.

    For the tempo session, is the goal for that to work on steady pacing or to increase the pace i.e. moving up from a 5 mph to 6 mph pace etc.?

    I think I could reasonably increase my weekday run times to 45 minutes, but moving past that time or adding in a 4th run during the week would be something I would really have to think about. I have a long history of getting over zealous with my workouts and then burning out and crashing hard. I've done really well since this summer with sticking to my workouts, in large part I think because I'm keeping my weekday workouts on a time limit.

    As for the running long distances on a treadmill, maybe I was a lab rat in a past life :tongue: I would never claim it's enjoyable, and I would much prefer an outdoor scenic run, but I've learned how to just focus my brain somewhere else and get it done.

    I understand limiting workout time. I'm pretty strict with my limits too... I have a husband and 5 kids to take care of so my limit is generally 1hr/day on average or 7 hours spread out over the week. My schedule might look something like this:

    Day 1 - Long run 10-12 mi - 90-120 mins
    Day 2 - Short easy run (3 mi) or 30 minute workout DVD + 30-40 mins lifting (stronglifts is quick)
    Day 3 - Medium tempo run (6 mi) or hills (5 mi) - 45-60 mins.
    Day 4 - Lifting only
    Day 5 - Medium easy run (5-6mi) - 45-60 mins
    Day 6 - 30 minute workout DVD + stronglifts
    Day 7 - Rest

    It gets my mileage up fairly well and with a "base" long run of about 8 miles all winter I can increase to 13 pretty easily.

    Sometimes I take an extra rest day. But that allows me to fit in lifting 3 times a week, running 4 times a week and at least 1 full rest day.
  • Marijana2013
    Marijana2013 Posts: 1 Member
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    Run with a group. Almost the only way to keep the pace and not quit.
  • lorierin22
    lorierin22 Posts: 432 Member
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    No, it is mine. I will make sure I don't get you guys so butthurt with my "she doesn't have the drive" post or the "bad for the knees" post again. :)

    I am incredibly late I know...just wanted to respond to this part about not having the drive and not training for distance. The way I train for distance is unorthodox I know, but it works for a lot of people including myself. I only do 3 runs a week, 2 short and one long. The way you train for distance is by keeping your short runs and adding 10% to your long run each week. This has worked for me through 2 halfs (granted they were just to finish, not time goals...I know I will need more running for time goals.) By the way, it takes me and most "average people" more than 90 minutes to complete 13.1 miles. My point is, you don't have to, nor should you, run long each day to train for distance, that is the point you seem to be hung up on. She must not be training for distance because she only does one long run per week...that's actually how most people do it. Second, hitting the wall and not having drive or dedication are not the same thing. If she lacked drive or dedication, she would just give up on trying to run distance, like it appears you did. She continues to try to break the 90 minute mark and is looking for help to do so...that shows drive and dedication to trying to run longer distances.

    Again, sorry I'm so late and I'm sure this has been addressed before...
  • jofjltncb6
    jofjltncb6 Posts: 34,415 Member
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    Lol, one word, Houston, trust me, the treadmill is preferable.

    You think the treadmill is preferable to running in Houston, TX??? I have an awesome treadmill in my basement right in front of a TV w/ cable...and yet I've run outside in <20 degree F (and >95 degree F) weather many times because I hate...HATE...HATE running on the treadmill.
  • jofjltncb6
    jofjltncb6 Posts: 34,415 Member
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    OK I've run a full marathon and 2 1/2 marathons.

    I like the run 10 minutes walk one minute routine. (with credit to John Stanton)

    It works to increase distance.

    So if you want to run 90 minutes just run 10 minutes walk one minute and repeat 9 times.

    The walking is not "cheating" It allows your body a bit of a rest. Studies were done-this is from John Stanton-Running Room founder-and for most recreational runners (not the super elites) Their overall marathon time actually dropped with walking breaks.

    Alternatively, if you want to run 90 minutes, just run 10 minutes walk one minute and repeat 8 times (and then run for 2 more minutes).

    :drinker:

    /mathpedant
  • jofjltncb6
    jofjltncb6 Posts: 34,415 Member
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    Run with a group. Almost the only way to keep the pace and not quit.

    While I can see the benefits of running with a group, I completely disagree with the "almost the only way" part. There are likely dozens of exceptions in this very thread.
  • QueenBishOTUniverse
    QueenBishOTUniverse Posts: 14,121 Member
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    Lol, one word, Houston, trust me, the treadmill is preferable.

    You think the treadmill is preferable to running in Houston, TX??? I have an awesome treadmill in my basement right in front of a TV w/ cable...and yet I've run outside in <20 degree F (and >95 degree F) weather many times because I hate...HATE...HATE running on the treadmill.

    I can't do it watching TV, it's a good book on my kindle or nothing. I could remain completely oblivious to the zombie apocolypse if I had a good book to read.

    I could probably work my way around the heat issue, it's the boring issue, I can distract myself with something to read or something to look at. There's nothing inspiring in looking at a bunch or concrete, chain stores/restraunts and sprawling suburban neighborhoods.

    That and the no sidewalks or trails thing just pisses me off. There is no such thing as walking in Houston, it is assumed that you will take your car EVERYWHERE. The grocery store is less then a mile from where I live, but to walk there I would have to walk on the street (which is major, six lane heavy traffic) or through lots filled with mud and grass growing up to my hips, and bugs, lots of bugs.
  • BITEME_GRRR
    BITEME_GRRR Posts: 150 Member
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    that's called the WALL.
    DO NOT WALK ...gotta fight through it it is completely mental.
  • jofjltncb6
    jofjltncb6 Posts: 34,415 Member
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    Lol, one word, Houston, trust me, the treadmill is preferable.

    You think the treadmill is preferable to running in Houston, TX??? I have an awesome treadmill in my basement right in front of a TV w/ cable...and yet I've run outside in <20 degree F (and >95 degree F) weather many times because I hate...HATE...HATE running on the treadmill.

    I can't do it watching TV, it's a good book on my kindle or nothing. I could remain completely oblivious to the zombie apocolypse if I had a good book to read.

    I could probably work my way around the heat issue, it's the boring issue, I can distract myself with something to read or something to look at. There's nothing inspiring in looking at a bunch or concrete, chain stores/restraunts and sprawling suburban neighborhoods.

    That and the no sidewalks or trails thing just pisses me off. There is no such thing as walking in Houston, it is assumed that you will take your car EVERYWHERE. The grocery store is less then a mile from where I live, but to walk there I would have to walk on the street (which is major, six lane heavy traffic) or through lots filled with mud and grass growing up to my hips, and bugs, lots of bugs.

    I'm surprised to learn this about Houston...I thought they were far more "progressive" than that. I expected sidewalks everywhere and lush public parks for everyone. Hmph. (Having walked home from a nearby convenience store just yesterday, I can relate to the no sidewalks being a problem. Fortunately, there were wide shoulders for most of the ~3 mile walk. Oh, and from my house to Jimmy John's is a pleasant 6-mile walk *except* at the very end where there's a 100 yard stretch on a *very* busy road where the sidewalk suddenly ends, the shoulder is replaced by a guard rail, and the terrain off of the road is simply impassable.)

    Fortunately for me, my favorite 5- and 8-mile trail loops are a quick 15-20 minute drive from my house.

    Have you tried listening to podcasts while running? I find this helps sometimes (and other times, is a bad distraction). Sometimes I like podcasts on running and other times, podcasts on completely different topics.

    I'm still sticking w/ my anti-dreadmill stance, but will accept that others may have reasons to feel differently. Best of luck in finding a solution that works best for you.
  • jofjltncb6
    jofjltncb6 Posts: 34,415 Member
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    that's called the WALL.
    DO NOT WALK ...gotta fight through it it is completely mental.

    Or alternatively, it is completely physical.
  • dbmata
    dbmata Posts: 12,950 Member
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    that's called the WALL.
    DO NOT WALK ...gotta fight through it it is completely mental.

    Or alternatively, it is completely physical.

    Or a factor of diet/fueling.
  • 3dogsrunning
    3dogsrunning Posts: 27,167 Member
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    that's called the WALL.
    DO NOT WALK ...gotta fight through it it is completely mental.

    I always thought "the wall" was physical - you have pretty much depleted your glycogen stores and you basically have no fuel left which makes it almost physically impossible to keep going.
  • rybo
    rybo Posts: 5,424 Member
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    So I wasn't about to read 7 pages of nonsense but to the OP you don't run enough, plain & simple. You do one run a week and you try to go 90+ minutes. Run a few more times during the week because you aren't going to improve the situation you are in.

    Ok, but a few posts in I do mention that my two HIIT sessions a week are part of 30 minute runs, so I'm not just doing one run a week. I do hear what you are saying though. Option #2 is increase my weekday run times if the fueling up doesn't work.

    So in your HIIT sessions you accomplish some running as warm up & cool down? I assume? That's still not the level or kind of running that is going to help you on a long run. I suppose it could be a fueling issue, but probably only because you don't run enough. For a somewhat conditioned runner, you should not bonk at 90 minutes.
  • rybo
    rybo Posts: 5,424 Member
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    that's called the WALL.
    DO NOT WALK ...gotta fight through it it is completely mental.

    I always thought "the wall" was physical - you have pretty much depleted your glycogen stores and you basically have no fuel left which makes it almost physically impossible to keep going.

    Correct. Many people get tired and call it the Wall, but the true Wall is depleting all your glycogen. And when you hit it, you will never confuse it with just being tired.

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