Need serious help with SUGAR!!!!
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Well honestly the best thing you can do is understand it's not an addiction. There's no physical need there, the way there is with nicotine or even alcohol.
Speak for yourself.
When you know the pain of smashing up biscuits and snorting them through a straw, then I'll take your opinion seriously.
As a kid, I used to snort powdered sugar through a straw at Cafe du Monde.0 -
Show me someone that goes through withdrawal symptoms similar to drug or alcohol addicts and watch them be "detoxed" and then MAYBE i will consider food addiction a real thing.
Why would the symptoms have to similar or as severe? Giving up smoking does not have similar symptoms to a heroin addict giving up heroin, yet few would argue that both were addictions.
Few would argue? Anyone "in the know" would agree that nicotine addiction is more severe than heroin addiction. Nicotine is the most difficult drug to quit. In fact, NIDA used to have a chart on this...
That was more or less my point. They are both addictive, but the reactions are not similar.
I don't really have an opinion on whether one can be addicted to sugar other than I doubt there is sufficient research for anyone to say deifinitively one way or the other.
They have been trying for decades to prove that sugar is addictive and have been unable to do so without intellectual dishonesty. :ohwell:
If they could definitvely say "No, not addictive" why would the studies continue? Although the move is away from saying anything is an "addiction" to saying "dependence".0 -
Not keeping sugary things in site helps too!0
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Right. I know tons of kids who tried everything from ketamine to cocaine and never got addicted. Most teens try drugs because our current drug policy makes drug use "cool" and "sexy." (It would be nice if we put a drug policy in place that focused on health instead of "war" and we made it boring, *AND* begin telling the truth instead of LEO lies, but that's a subject for a different thread.)
No, these kids are not "stupid." Even the most highly intelligent people have made mistakes in their lives.
Obviously I didn't mean stupid in the sense of low IQ or that only stupid people make mistakes; I meant you don't get addicted to substances without making a stupid decision. And please don't tell me people are ignorant as to the effects of these substances when they try them. Been there, knew the consequences, did it anyways for superficial reasons - and that's why it was a stupid decision. It doesn't change my point though. Once you've made that decision, the only way out is to own it, deal with it and move on. Whatever word you want to use to call it, be it addiction, compulsion, etc., doesn't change the solution. As such, even if sugar is addicting and that addiction is preventing you from reaching a caloric deficit, the only solution is to find a way to deal with it and get your eating under control.
Getting back to the OP's question, I would set a pretty low carb macro for a bit (maybe 100g/day) and see how you do. The problem with sweets like you're describing is that they aren't filling, and yet they're very dense in calories. Not only that, but you expect to feel hungry again within an hour or two, due to the resulting spike to your blood sugar from eating those foods. You may be surprised how you feel if you try something like a paleo diet or something similar, where you eat mostly fresh vegetables, meats and some fruit. Many people find they stay satiated eating this way and it's much easier to resist snacks and other temptations when a) they don't fit your macros and b) you aren't hungry.
Just FYI, you never said anything about a "stupid decision."
You said:
"If you were stupid enough to get addicted to heroine"
Nothing about a poor or stupid choice. You straight-up said that you ARE stupid if you get addicted to heroin. I assume you meant heroin, anyway.0 -
wow this topic got really out there! If she wants a darn cookie or donut I say eat it - just work it into your calories.
as for addictions - I work in a jail and see people go "cold turkey" everyday from drugs, alcohol and nicotine to the point of being delusional - sugar isn't an addiction it's in a lot of the foods we eat without us even knowing it - it's life and we need to deal with it - learning how to modify our eating is one of the reasons we are here.
OP is never going to say no to every single piece of birthday cake or dessert so she may as well learn that she can have it and learn how to adjust her calories or activity to account for it.0 -
Repeat ... white sugar and white flour are poison.0
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Repeat ... white sugar and white flour are poison.
Repeating things doesn't make them true.0 -
I tried for a while to save whatever sweet treat I wanted till I was safely out of the house in my car on my way to some appointment. It still triggered strong cravings though, abstinence was easier. Only a matter of time till I stopped somewhere for more. I have also gone weeks and months abstaining from sugar only to meet up with that fateful day where I cave and a couple of treats turns into a binge. I have discovered however that exercise reduces the likelihood of those agitative cravings. I can have sugar in the middle of a cardio activity without fear of cravings. Not sure if I can use this to prevent that binge that punctuates abstinence, but I'm going to try.0
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I love to eat sweet things too. I could go through a krispy kreme donut box in 5 minutes when it's hot and delicious. What, I've done is plan for it. I pick saturday as my day to splurge and I set aside 3 donuts for my breakfast. I add low fat milk. The rest of the week, I don't touch that stuff. I have a bowl of apples and clementine oranges at my work. So as soon as someone offers me cookies, and cake, I go get an apple and tell them I'm eating an apple for right now. Theres cake and cookies at my work and candy bars everywhere. I cut out sodas and look for sugar free items in my grocery store. I give away the chocolate that people give me and I didn't have any sugar item in my home so if I really wanted it, I would have to go out to the store or the bakery for it. It took me a long time to be able to say no.
In july I was 243 lbs 5 feet 2 and was on my way to being diabetic. I was wearing size 22 and 24. In december, I was 208 and had hit a plateau and I decided to join a gym. I chose a women's gym because trying to lose weight is hard enough without a man being critical of you. I do 30 minutes on the bicycle about 5 miles a day at 10.5 miles an hour. I cut out my pasta, bread, and rice, cheese and switched to fat free varieties.. I love grilled cheese so this was tough. I cut out ice cream, and I started drinking tea without sugar. Now I don't crave the sugar anymore. I donated all my size 20-24 clothings so I tell myself that if I gain weight I have to buy new clothing.
I surround myself with supportive people who exercise and go on hikes through meetups. I just hit 200.8 lbs this week. Cut out a little thing every week until you don't want it anymore. It can be done. Good Luck and I hope you succeed.0 -
Right. I know tons of kids who tried everything from ketamine to cocaine and never got addicted. Most teens try drugs because our current drug policy makes drug use "cool" and "sexy." (It would be nice if we put a drug policy in place that focused on health instead of "war" and we made it boring, *AND* begin telling the truth instead of LEO lies, but that's a subject for a different thread.)
No, these kids are not "stupid." Even the most highly intelligent people have made mistakes in their lives.
Obviously I didn't mean stupid in the sense of low IQ or that only stupid people make mistakes; I meant you don't get addicted to substances without making a stupid decision. And please don't tell me people are ignorant as to the effects of these substances when they try them. Been there, knew the consequences, did it anyways for superficial reasons - and that's why it was a stupid decision. It doesn't change my point though. Once you've made that decision, the only way out is to own it, deal with it and move on. Whatever word you want to use to call it, be it addiction, compulsion, etc., doesn't change the solution. As such, even if sugar is addicting and that addiction is preventing you from reaching a caloric deficit, the only solution is to find a way to deal with it and get your eating under control.
Getting back to the OP's question, I would set a pretty low carb macro for a bit (maybe 100g/day) and see how you do. The problem with sweets like you're describing is that they aren't filling, and yet they're very dense in calories. Not only that, but you expect to feel hungry again within an hour or two, due to the resulting spike to your blood sugar from eating those foods. You may be surprised how you feel if you try something like a paleo diet or something similar, where you eat mostly fresh vegetables, meats and some fruit. Many people find they stay satiated eating this way and it's much easier to resist snacks and other temptations when a) they don't fit your macros and b) you aren't hungry.
Just FYI, you never said anything about a "stupid decision."
You said:
"If you were stupid enough to get addicted to heroine"
Nothing about a poor or stupid choice. You straight-up said that you ARE stupid if you get addicted to heroin. I assume you meant heroin, anyway.
And I'd still say the vast majority of those people fit the definition. If experimenting with a highly addictive substance like heroin isn't good evidence of someone lacking common sense, I don't know what is.0 -
Right. I know tons of kids who tried everything from ketamine to cocaine and never got addicted. Most teens try drugs because our current drug policy makes drug use "cool" and "sexy." (It would be nice if we put a drug policy in place that focused on health instead of "war" and we made it boring, *AND* begin telling the truth instead of LEO lies, but that's a subject for a different thread.)
No, these kids are not "stupid." Even the most highly intelligent people have made mistakes in their lives.
Obviously I didn't mean stupid in the sense of low IQ or that only stupid people make mistakes; I meant you don't get addicted to substances without making a stupid decision. And please don't tell me people are ignorant as to the effects of these substances when they try them. Been there, knew the consequences, did it anyways for superficial reasons - and that's why it was a stupid decision. It doesn't change my point though. Once you've made that decision, the only way out is to own it, deal with it and move on. Whatever word you want to use to call it, be it addiction, compulsion, etc., doesn't change the solution. As such, even if sugar is addicting and that addiction is preventing you from reaching a caloric deficit, the only solution is to find a way to deal with it and get your eating under control.
Getting back to the OP's question, I would set a pretty low carb macro for a bit (maybe 100g/day) and see how you do. The problem with sweets like you're describing is that they aren't filling, and yet they're very dense in calories. Not only that, but you expect to feel hungry again within an hour or two, due to the resulting spike to your blood sugar from eating those foods. You may be surprised how you feel if you try something like a paleo diet or something similar, where you eat mostly fresh vegetables, meats and some fruit. Many people find they stay satiated eating this way and it's much easier to resist snacks and other temptations when a) they don't fit your macros and b) you aren't hungry.
Just FYI, you never said anything about a "stupid decision."
You said:
"If you were stupid enough to get addicted to heroine"
Nothing about a poor or stupid choice. You straight-up said that you ARE stupid if you get addicted to heroin. I assume you meant heroin, anyway.
And I'd still say the vast majority of those people fit the definition. If experimenting with a highly addictive substance like heroin isn't good evidence of someone lacking common sense, I don't know what is.
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Seriously? You have seen people delusional from nicotine withdrawl? I would have to see that with my own eyes to believe it, btw I am an ex-smoker (10 years clean, 5 years trying to quit before that, so smoked about half that time, finally just said the heck with it and quit cold turkey, and I didn't have any kind of delusions, I was so ready when I quit and I did things like meditation, and I was fine).as for addictions - I work in a jail and see people go "cold turkey" everyday from drugs, alcohol and nicotine to the point of being delusional - sugar isn't an addiction it's in a lot of the foods we eat without us even knowing it - it's life and we need to deal with it - learning how to modify our eating is one of the reasons we are here.
I just can't picture somebody going that nuts over nicotine, really?0 -
Well honestly the best thing you can do is understand it's not an addiction. There's no physical need there, the way there is with nicotine or even alcohol.
Speak for yourself.
When you know the pain of smashing up biscuits and snorting them through a straw, then I'll take your opinion seriously.
As a kid, I used to snort powdered sugar through a straw at Cafe du Monde.
Mmmmm beignets.....
Mmmmmm....0 -
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Sugar also makes you crave more.0
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wow this topic got really out there! If she wants a darn cookie or donut I say eat it - just work it into your calories.
as for addictions - I work in a jail and see people go "cold turkey" everyday from drugs, alcohol and nicotine to the point of being delusional - sugar isn't an addiction it's in a lot of the foods we eat without us even knowing it - it's life and we need to deal with it - learning how to modify our eating is one of the reasons we are here.
OP is never going to say no to every single piece of birthday cake or dessert so she may as well learn that she can have it and learn how to adjust her calories or activity to account for it.
^^^Yessss...and guess what. It's not realistic to think that you will never encounter a birthday cake. And when you do, and you haven't had anything that tastes that good in forever, you're probably going to binge, n go crazy! Lol. Well, that's what I'd probably do anyway. This is supposed to be a LIFESTYLE CHANGE...that means, if you can't do it for life, then it's a waste of time! Even if you lose weight doing it, if you're going to wind up gaining it all back, then what's the point?0 -
"as for addictions - I work in a jail and see people go "cold turkey" everyday from drugs, alcohol and nicotine to the point of being delusional - sugar isn't an addiction it's in a lot of the foods we eat without us even knowing it - it's life and we need to deal with it - learning how to modify our eating is one of the reasons we are here."
Seriously? You have seen people delusional from nicotine withdrawl? I would have to see that with my own eyes to believe it, btw I am an ex-smoker (10 years clean, 5 years trying to quit before that, so smoked about half that time, finally just said the heck with it and quit cold turkey, and I didn't have any kind of delusions, I was so ready when I quit and I did things like meditation, and I was fine).
I just can't picture somebody going that nuts over nicotine, really?
not so much nicotine but I did also include alcohol and drugs and forgot to include solvents - I know what withdrawal looks like and serious DT's is no joke - 90% of inmates walk out the door and light up a cigarette that's been sitting in their property for months lol now that's addiction (dummies)0 -
For ME, ONLY SPEAKING FOR MYSELF, cold turkey was the way to go, because eating a little sugar means eating more sugar, and eating more sugar means eating a whole lot of sugar and eating a whole lot of sugar means eating all the sugar I can find in the world etcetcetcetc.
My eating plan has omitted sugar, salt, grain, and dairy. Haven't felt better in years, and I'm old, hypothyroid, and have fibromyalgia.
I don't care if you call it habit or addiction or disorder or ShirleyTemple, I don't need it and it's not my friend and I don't want it in my life.0 -
And I'd still say the vast majority of those people fit the definition. If experimenting with a highly addictive substance like heroin isn't good evidence of someone lacking common sense, I don't know what is.
IMHO that is pretty judgmental. I remember very well why I started smoking when I was very young (13), my Dad had just died, there was another kid who also lost his Dad, we bonded so I started hanging around with his group, I did it to fit in. Honestly, no I didn't know how bad it was for you or anything about the ramifications of it at that time.0 -
Ewwwww, even when I smoked I thought stale cigarettes were gross.not so much nicotine but I did also include alcohol and drugs and forgot to include solvents - I know what withdrawal looks like and serious DT's is no joke - 90% of inmates walk out the door and light up a cigarette that's been sitting in their property for months lol now that's addiction (dummies)0 -
LOLing at the non addicts giving advice on what it is like to be an addict or what is or is not addictive.....
Alcoholics are given sugar when they have the DTs because it is the sugar in the alcohol that their bodies are craving. We are also told to eat candy or drink juice when we think we need a drink, because the sugar in the alcohol is what our bodies desire.
For those who have never been an addict, to suggest to someone that they just moderate is ridiculous. And to suggest they are just simply not strong enough to handle it is borderline mental abuse.
To answer the question for the OP, for now, YES, you must abstain from sugar. If you find later in life you can moderate it, then by all means, enjoy away, but if not, then there are worse things in life than not being able to eat a cookie. I really did not think there would be a life worth living with out alcohol in it, but hey, look at me, enjoying life and chit, even loving it better now that I do not have something that is making me more miserable than making me happy.0 -
bump for later. great comments. will comment a little later.0
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I calm my sugar cravings with the odd haribo. I find there sweet enough to keep me happy
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Birthday cake is usually too sweet. There were people eating cheesecake in front of me today, and there I was with my salad and boiled shrimp, but I survived! When I am on maintenance, I guess I would just have a (small) piece, but then you have to be accountable for it and exercise enough to make up for it.^^^Yessss...and guess what. It's not realistic to think that you will never encounter a birthday cake. And when you do, and you haven't had anything that tastes that good in forever, you're probably going to binge, n go crazy! Lol. Well, that's what I'd probably do anyway. This is supposed to be a LIFESTYLE CHANGE...that means, if you can't do it for life, then it's a waste of time! Even if you lose weight doing it, if you're going to wind up gaining it all back, then what's the point?0 -
At the end of the day, does it really matter? If you were stupid enough to get addicted to heroine, you're going to need to suck it up and break the addiction in order to get away from it. The same with any other addictive substance, whether it's a physical or mental addiction. Even if you are somehow addicted to junk food (which I don't necessarily buy, but assuming you are), you need to put the oreo down if it's preventing you from reaching a caloric deficit. Whether you call putting the oreo down breaking an addiction, gaining some willpower or eating in moderation, it's all the same in the end.
Honestly this is a pointless argument over semantics, which is abundantly clear by people referencing the DSM. :yawn:
It matters a great deal, actually. When talking about health interventions, therapies, etc., whether or not something is an addiction (or whether a substance produces a dependence) is a big deal.
I can understand how it doesn't seem important to a layperson, but this is Stuff That Matters (tm).
I completely agree! It is not pointless semantics. And the fact that the poster of the top quote would label all addicts as "stupid" is very telling.
^^This...
...and, I'm going to be petty here, but I was the one who accused this poster of "arguing over semantics," last week, because he was doing just that! :grumble:0 -
I have battled sweets all my life. It wasn't so bad when I was in my teens and eating a bag of oreos because I was skinny!! Now I'm FAT. 5'3 and 185lbs AND almost 50! I am a sugar-aholic. I love cookies, donuts, cakes, brownies, not just one piece and walk happily away either. I have to eat it until they are done.
I am worse now than I have ever been. Being a stress eater doesn't help since my job is very stressful and there is crap to eat everywhere!!
I've tried just limiting myself to a "serving" so I get my sweets without feeling deprived but it never seems to work.
Do I quit cold turkey?? Is this to be looked at as any other addiction?
Thank you all in advance.
I wouldn't say it's an addiction as much as it's a compulsion. I found that centering my meals around proteins and veggies and trying to hit my macros has left little room for sweets, so I've tapered back by focusing on OTHER, more filling foods. Unfortunately, a 400 calorie piece of cake does not fuel you as well as a meal, such as a piece of chicken, two veggies, and a fruit does. That's been my experience, anyway.
Additionally, you need to develop mind control over the cookie/brownie/cake. Don't lose a fight with a dessert. There's a MFP'er whose tag line is, "I didn't come this far to take orders from a cookie." Lol! It's true, too.
Compulsion...yes! Also it sometimes can become an obsession. That's when counseling is a good option. Sometimes talking about your behavior with someone who won't judge you can get you to the point where you can get your head on straight and act right again.
^^True. If it has THAT much of a hold on someone, counseling could help.0 -
At the end of the day, does it really matter? If you were stupid enough to get addicted to heroine, you're going to need to suck it up and break the addiction in order to get away from it. The same with any other addictive substance, whether it's a physical or mental addiction. Even if you are somehow addicted to junk food (which I don't necessarily buy, but assuming you are), you need to put the oreo down if it's preventing you from reaching a caloric deficit. Whether you call putting the oreo down breaking an addiction, gaining some willpower or eating in moderation, it's all the same in the end.
Honestly this is a pointless argument over semantics, which is abundantly clear by people referencing the DSM. :yawn:
It matters a great deal, actually. When talking about health interventions, therapies, etc., whether or not something is an addiction (or whether a substance produces a dependence) is a big deal.
I can understand how it doesn't seem important to a layperson, but this is Stuff That Matters (tm).
I completely agree! It is not pointless semantics. And the fact that the poster of the top quote would label all addicts as "stupid" is very telling.
^^This...
...and, I'm going to be petty here, but I was the one who accused this poster of "arguing over semantics," last week, because he was doing just that! :grumble:
That was me, wasn't it? :laugh: So you think it's not pointless semantics this time?0 -
I know that was what happened with my friend I mentioned (who used to be an alcoholic), they told her off sugar too or you are not really off.LOLing at the non addicts giving advice on what it is like to be an addict or what is or is not addictive.....
Alcoholics are given sugar when they have the DTs because it is the sugar in the alcohol that their bodies are craving. We are also told to eat candy or drink juice when we think we need a drink, because the sugar in the alcohol is what our bodies desire.
For those who have never been an addict, to suggest to someone that they just moderate is ridiculous. And to suggest they are just simply not strong enough to handle it is borderline mental abuse.
To answer the question for the OP, for now, YES, you must abstain from sugar. If you find later in life you can moderate it, then by all means, enjoy away, but if not, then there are worse things in life than not being able to eat a cookie. I really did not think there would be a life worth living with out alcohol in it, but hey, look at me, enjoying life and chit, even loving it better now that I do not have something that is making me more miserable than making me happy.
To bring up another point, I tend to call myself an non-smoker, not an ex-smoker, once you are not even tempted anymore (I am allergic to cigarette smoke now and I can't stand it anywhere near me), I think you can become a "non". Therefore, I don't call my friend an "ex" alcoholic, she hasn't had a drink in about 20 years. I just think of her now as my friend, not my friend the ex-alcoholic.
I think when you start putting "ex" labels on things you still have a connection of sorts, I don't know that is just the way I feel about it.0 -
No, I think that was me when I suggested IIFYM or general calorie counting aren't, in and of themselves, a "lifestyle change." They're just tools for tracking your nutritional goals/energy intake. But who knows, maybe it was both of us. I can't keep up.
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Ah it's hard to keep track. I often get accused of arguing semantics.0
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