Trying to gain muscle. Why no cardio?

cwolfman13

Unless you're training for an ironman or doing 'round the clock marathon training or something like that, I wouldn't worry about it. Getting in some volley ball a few times a week or going for a nice ride a few times per week...or running for an hour a few times per week isn't going to have much of an impact save for necessitating more food to ensure a surplus of energy.

Really the only people I've known to actually worry about it a whole lot are some people here on MFP and competition bodybuilders and power lifters. I would suppose that if your job was to lift as much weight as possible or build as much muscle as possible then it might matter to a greater extent than it would for the average Joe/Jane just trying to get stronger and/or put on a little muscle mass.

Stoshew71

Thanks for the original post and all the answers.

I am trying to do the same thing. I am currently still cutting. I am just about at my last 10 lbs to cut before I get to 15% BF.
Then my next goal was to bulk up, just enough to look a little ripped.

My main initial reason for running was to help loose the weight, but I have grown very fond of it now. I am signed up for my first 10K and half marathon. I just grew in love with it. And as of the beginning of this month, I do a HM as training in my Saturday long runs. (That's on top of running 4 miles every morning M-F).

I do eat a lot of protein. Since I don't have a lot left to loose, I have ate a lot more in calories but still at a slight deficit. The running makes me have to eat more.

Once I get down to my goal, I will see if i can continue to run at the way i am now but see if I can eat at a surplus. I range from 150-170 g of protein daily now. What I am lacking right now is the carbs. I am still low in carbs and probably could use more healthy fats. That will change when I get to a bulk.

So the only testiment I can give right now is that the running is not burning my muscle. But my fat is. I am not sure if I am gaining if any in muscle, but when I lift, each week I notice a gain in strength. Also, I am looking leaner and my muscle is definetly more defined then when I started about 100 days ago.

I do want to try and run a marathon by the end of the year. We will see how this all works out.

astronomicals

a lot of people hear "cardio" and think 'low intensity steady state,' and think 'half marathon training. they shouldn't. longer cardio has it's place in many programs. personally, after a few minutes of running or biking, my legs start to recover from DOMS. i read once that moderate intensity cardio for 20-30 minutes can help people recover from a really hard strength training day (specifically leg day) a full day faster than those that only went for a light cardio session.


another thing people confuse cardio with is conditioning. conditioning can and should be part of your strength training routine, in forms of prowler sled pushes, box jumps, and complexes.

well put.. i breezed over this at first... this is what I was trying to convey.

sijomial

At work so can't link pictures - James Haskell, England rugby player, does a lot of cardio & weights.......

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=james+haskell&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=k1PhUsufLsqAhAeouICQAQ&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1920&bih=956

trojan_bb

At work so can't link pictures - James Haskell, England rugby player, does a lot of cardio & weights.......

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=james+haskell&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=k1PhUsufLsqAhAeouICQAQ&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1920&bih=956

ok, I can link some NFL guys with high muscle mass that do cardio to perform well. That's not an argument for optimal gaining. These guys are the genetic elite, how much bigger would they be if they actually trained for muscle mass? Much larger.

Plus, that guy has the body of your average gym rat. You can literally do anything in the gym and you'll look similar after 10 years training.

astronomicals

Im sedentary besides training.... That being said, my cardio is 1.5 miles walk to and from the gym along with a .5mi warmup and a 1-1.5 mile cooldown before stretching after my lifting session... thats what works for me. I throw in a 5k, tempo run, or some intervals once or twice a week... or i do cycling... my weekly mileage is around 12 miles walking and 8 miles running....

what works for you may be more or less depending on your diet, recovery, and training intensity.

good luck

tigersword

Thanks for the original post and all the answers.

I am trying to do the same thing. I am currently still cutting. I am just about at my last 10 lbs to cut before I get to 15% BF.
Then my next goal was to bulk up, just enough to look a little ripped.

My main initial reason for running was to help loose the weight, but I have grown very fond of it now. I am signed up for my first 10K and half marathon. I just grew in love with it. And as of the beginning of this month, I do a HM as training in my Saturday long runs. (That's on top of running 4 miles every morning M-F).

I do eat a lot of protein. Since I don't have a lot left to loose, I have ate a lot more in calories but still at a slight deficit. The running makes me have to eat more.

Once I get down to my goal, I will see if i can continue to run at the way i am now but see if I can eat at a surplus. I range from 150-170 g of protein daily now. What I am lacking right now is the carbs. I am still low in carbs and probably could use more healthy fats. That will change when I get to a bulk.

So the only testiment I can give right now is that the running is not burning my muscle. But my fat is. I am not sure if I am gaining if any in muscle, but when I lift, each week I notice a gain in strength. Also, I am looking leaner and my muscle is definetly more defined then when I started about 100 days ago.

I do want to try and run a marathon by the end of the year. We will see how this all works out.

Getting "ripped" is low body fat, you don't have to bulk to get that, just reduce body fat down to about 10-12%.

SteveJWatson

At work so can't link pictures - James Haskell, England rugby player, does a lot of cardio & weights.......

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=james+haskell&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=k1PhUsufLsqAhAeouICQAQ&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1920&bih=956

Tom Croft is from the same village as me (that I grew up in, not where I live now) - saw him over christmas. He manages to get through a lot of cardio too and is smaller than Haskell, but compred to most, normal people he is a giant.

sijomial

At work so can't link pictures - James Haskell, England rugby player, does a lot of cardio & weights.......

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=james+haskell&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=k1PhUsufLsqAhAeouICQAQ&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1920&bih=956

ok, I can link some NFL guys with high muscle mass that do cardio to perform well. That's not an argument for optimal gaining. These guys are the genetic elite, how much bigger would they be if they actually trained for muscle mass? Much larger.

Plus, that guy has the body of your average gym rat. You can literally do anything in the gym and you'll look similar after 10 years training.

The OP isn't trying to be a bodybuilder. He is asking if cardio will hamper his goals not a bodybuilder's goals.

SteveJWatson

At work so can't link pictures - James Haskell, England rugby player, does a lot of cardio & weights.......

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=james+haskell&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=k1PhUsufLsqAhAeouICQAQ&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1920&bih=956

ok, I can link some NFL guys with high muscle mass that do cardio to perform well. That's not an argument for optimal gaining. These guys are the genetic elite, how much bigger would they be if they actually trained for muscle mass? Much larger.

Plus, that guy has the body of your average gym rat. You can literally do anything in the gym and you'll look similar after 10 years training.

Mate, he's 6'4" and 240lbs....

countrygirl7mels

I am in the same boat as you. I have been a runner for years, and I just started weight training. I want my arms to match my legs LOL. I am not wanting to bulk up really big, and, as a woman, I am sure I won't get huge anyway, but I do want to gain muscle and become over all stronger.

I have decided the route for me is to keep running normally, which, for me, is 2 or 3 miles a day for 3 to 5 days during the week, and then 2 days of long runs, which are 4 to 6.7 miles (I plan to increase one of the runs per week so I am up to the half marathon I want to do this summer). I run 5-7 times a week. I run before I lift becaue I don't want to be too tired for my run. I have found that my legs are strong enough to run before I lift with my legs as long as I don't run a long run beforehand, and my arms are never too tired to lift after running. I have heard that people who are mainly focusing on muscle gain usually do weights before cardio, but runners, who are focused on their speed, may run first if they want to do so.

I have also changed my diet. I am being pretty strict with eating clean, and I am really watching my protien intake since I am new to lifting weights. I am trying to drink plenty of water, which helps muscles recover also.

I have found success in this so far, and I am keepign in mind that it will take time. My arms and chest are becoming stronger, and I really think that the lifting is making me a faster runner. I am seeing results in the weight room in that I upped my weights last week a little, and it is working out great. Cardio is very good for your heart and lungs, and it makes me feel wonderful, so I, personally, would not stop altogether. Everyone is different.

Mr_Knight

In any case, a constant advice from people telling me how to build muscle is basically "avoid cardio." Why?

It's bad advice. There is no reason to avoid cardio, and many reasons to include it. Here's what 4 hours a day of elite intensity cardio can look like...

trojan_bb

At work so can't link pictures - James Haskell, England rugby player, does a lot of cardio & weights.......

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=james+haskell&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=k1PhUsufLsqAhAeouICQAQ&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1920&bih=956

ok, I can link some NFL guys with high muscle mass that do cardio to perform well. That's not an argument for optimal gaining. These guys are the genetic elite, how much bigger would they be if they actually trained for muscle mass? Much larger.

Plus, that guy has the body of your average gym rat. You can literally do anything in the gym and you'll look similar after 10 years training.

The OP isn't trying to be a bodybuilder. He is asking if cardio will hamper his goals not a bodybuilder's goals.

The OP was already addressed. No one knows the exact threshold for optimal mass vs cardio. A couple hours of volleyball won't hamper his goals.

But saying that cardio is NOT ever catabolic is simply wrong. At a certain level, running will reverse the process and no amount of food will prevent it.

Mate, he's 6'4" and 240lbs....

Yep. Average weight for that height for a guy that's been training for years. He has large legs and a massive skeleton, which lends itself to rugby. He would need to be at least 280 and that same bodyfat to even think of competing against guys who train for muscle mass.. Big difference between being a top athlete and having maximum muscle mass.

Capt_Apollo

cristiano ronaldo is the worst thing to ever happen to spanish soccer. ever.

RGv2

In any case, a constant advice from people telling me how to build muscle is basically "avoid cardio." Why?

It's bad advice. There is no reason to avoid cardio, and many reasons to include it. Here's what 4 hours a day of elite intensity cardio can look like...

As long as you're a genetic freak......right?

tessmca

here are two good articles seems to depend on your goals and nutrition

http://www.muscleandstrength.com/articles/choosing-cardio-pre-post-workout

http://www.360cut.com/store/pg/32-Individual-Cardio-Requirements-in-Contest-Prep-by-Shelby-Starnes.aspx#

My_Own_Worst_Enemy

Intense cardio longer than a certain time limit (not sure what it is, need some scientific studies, but lets just say 15 minutes HIIT) is catabolic, it necessarily starts the process of muscle breakdown. And of course, burns calories but this can be offset with eating.

This is why you'll see professional bodybuilders do 2 types of cardio. Low Intensity stuff for an hour (walking, slow stairmaster) or 10 minutes of HIIT.

Just dont go running a half marathon every week.

This is good advice here.

Also, whats your timeframe on this 10lbs?

Depending on your methods, I have seen claims that 10lbs of lean mass can be accomplished in a couple months, or a couple of years.

Long Term: http://scoobysworkshop.com/gain-muscle-lose-fat/

Short Term: http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog/2013/05/11/how-to-gain-20-pounds-in-28-days-the-extreme-muscle-building-secrets-of-ufc-fighters/

ninerbuff

Cardio is fine to do while trying to add muscle. The whole "catabolic" issue stems around broscience from bodybuilders (whom don't like to do cardio anyway) who always wanted to stay in an anabolic state.
The key to gaining muscle will still be:

Progressive overload with high volume, surplus to build muscle and adequate protein.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

MeanderingMammal

Have you ever seen a jacked marathoner? no.

Have you seen jacked sprinters? yes.

This is because long,steady state cardio wears/breaks down and uses muscle as fuel.

Sprinters having substantial muscle is a function of their weight training, not a function of their running.

Middle and long distance runners don't want to be carrying excess weight that just slows them down, so the weight training that they do will tend to be more suited to endurance and stabilisation.

Muscle breakdown as fuel is only going to kick in at about the 180 minute mark.

Jersey_Devil

Cardio is fine while bulking.
You probably should eat more.
try high intensity interval training to cut down cardio time but still get cardio benefits