I miss food

jonnythan

There are better ways to estimate than this "rule of thumb". And there are hundreds of women on this site eating and losing weight eating >2,000 calories a day.

Your scooby calculator puts me at 2750, which is within 50 calories of the "rule of thumb".

I have no doubt that anyone can lose weight eating any amount of calories a day. But if you aren't eating your way to a deficit you have to exercise your way to one.

2750 is what number? Scooby gives you 3 numbers. Did you enter sedentary? You are probably not sedentary unless you barely move out of bed. What percent loss did you enter?

Sedentary is not coma. I fall into sedentary after walking to work, going down the hallway to the bathroom a few times, going home, making dinner, doing dishes, doing laundry, and going to bed. Most people are closer to sedentary than lightly active unless their job involves a lot of walling.

maillemaker

But your estimates are way off the experience of other people who weigh as much or less than you. I think you should at least try 2000 calories a day and see what happens. I found that my weight loss/gain was a bit broader banded than a strict calories in - calories out would suggest.

MFP
http://www.myfitnesspal.com
TDEE: 2740
Recommended deficit to achieve 2 pounds per week: 1050
Recommended daily intake: 1690

Sarauk2sf
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/819055-setting-your-calorie-and-macro-targets
Based on a 30 pound weight loss over 219 days consuming on average 1800 calories per day:
TDEE: 2142
Recommended deficit (20%): 428
Recommended daily intake: 1714

Scooby
http://scoobysworkshop.com/calorie-calculator/
TDEE: 2757
Recommended deficit (20%) to achieve 1 pound per week: 551
Recommended daily intake: 2205

These three sources agree on a recommended daily intake within 500 calories. And Sara's calculations based on my actual weight loss agree with MFP within 24 calories. I'm afraid of eating more because I suspect the weight loss will be even more meager than I achieved over 30 weeks.

Also, considering that the last time I had to lose weight, l did it successfully without feeling hungry all the time and kept it off for seven years (until I got pregnant) and then lost it without feeling hungry and have kept it off so far, I'd argue that being hungry all the time isn't necessary. There's an awful lot of successful dieters that agree with me.

But you are also in a very tiny group of people who diet. Somewhere between 80% to 95% of people who diet are unsuccessful. It may very well be that you are in a small minority of people who can cut their caloric intake without feeling hungry all the time. All I can tell you is I have done this off and on for 30 years and the results have always been the same. I can literally feel it when I am losing weight. I can tell immediately when I have slacked off before I ever get on a scale.

It's interesting that while I was googling to find out the percentage of people who fail at diets, I came across this:

http://healthread.net/why-dieters-regain-leibel.htm
" From Dr Leibel's studies of formerly obese (who are keeping weight off), he observed that they are hungry all the time, are cold and other symptoms of the biochemical system kicking in to force a weight gain. When they exercise, these individuals burn 15 to 20 percent LESS calories than a normally thin person and they evidence large amounts of cortisol in the blood (the cortisol has been observed in some studies to cause weight gain in and of itself). Dr Leibel's comment was:

> "the system is set up to defend bodyfat so if you monkey with it down here, all hell breaks out and the body goes haywire!" <

Dr Leibel feels that even a small weight loss (as little as 10 lbs) can be beneficial but comments that for most people it is impossible to keep the weight off even WITH medications like Meridia (which he said posed an independent cardio-vascular risk and must be taken constantly). "Even with that," he concluded, "after a few years, the medication seems to lose its effect and the individual re-gains the weight." "

Now the above web site seemed a little 1995ish so I went and looked up this doctor and he does seem to be a legitimate scientist and is a professor at the Columbia University Medical Center.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolph_Leibel

Here is a lecture of his hosted by the NIH:

http://videocast.nih.gov/summary.asp?live=2993&bhcp=1

maillemaker

2750 is what number? Scooby gives you 3 numbers. Did you enter sedentary? You are probably not sedentary unless you barely move out of bed. What percent loss did you enter?

I entered "Desk job with little exercise", as that is me. I work at a desk job, I come home and play on the computer until dinner and bed time. Sometimes I putter around in the workshop, but nothing strenuous.

FindingMyPerfection

So what is your point? I'm unclear.

There were people up-thread saying I was not eating enough calories at the 1690 that MFP was recommending.

But the link the person recommended ended up within 24 calories of the same target number.

So it looks like 1700 calories is the correct target.

I know when you start you want to lose as fast as you can so many times people fall into the trap of trying to jump to a large deficit. Maybe it would be good for your sanity to first start with a week maintaining your weight. Then slowly reduce your daily intake by 100-200 cals a week till you hit 1lb loss a week. Stay here for 2-4 weeks and then reduce again if you feel you can do so and still keep sanity. In the long run it doesn't matter how fast you lose, what matters is that you teach yourself to eat responsibly and in a way you are willing to sustain.

For this to stick beyond the dieting faze you must develop a healthy relationship with food or you will gain it back again.

OllyReeves

I miss...chips and salsa. Chips and Guac. F lamming Cheetos. More than one dinky ounce of cheese. Potatoes with cheese and salsa and onions and peppers..a whole baked one. Ice cream. Cashews. Damn I really miss cashews. Nuts. Peanut butter. One spoon is pathetic. Hummus. Chick Peas out of the can. Cheese enchilada. Eggplant Parm. Garlic bread with cheese. Eggs with cheese, peppers, onions, diced potatoes and salsa scrambled. Hash browns.

Talk dirty to me....

grassette

I miss...chips and salsa. Chips and Guac. F lamming Cheetos. More than one dinky ounce of cheese. Potatoes with cheese and salsa and onions and peppers..a whole baked one. Ice cream. Cashews. Damn I really miss cashews. Nuts. Peanut butter. One spoon is pathetic. Hummus. Chick Peas out of the can. Cheese enchilada. Eggplant Parm. Garlic bread with cheese. Eggs with cheese, peppers, onions, diced potatoes and salsa scrambled. Hash browns.

I know. We are such gluttons without even being aware of it.

maillemaker

For this to stick beyond the dieting faze you must develop a healthy relationship with food or you will gain it back again.

Yes, this has been known for the 30 years I have been trying to lose weight.

Also, very interesting point at the 35 minute mark in this video:
http://videocast.nih.gov/summary.asp?live=2993&bhcp=1

The symptoms he mentions match mine exactly. It was such a relief to see affirmation after hearing everyone tell me I'm wrong!

FindingMyPerfection

For this to stick beyond the dieting faze you must develop a healthy relationship with food or you will gain it back again.

Yes, this has been known for the 30 years I have been trying to lose weight.

Also, very interesting point at the 35 minute mark in this video:
http://videocast.nih.gov/summary.asp?live=2993&bhcp=1

The symptoms he mentions match mine exactly. It was such a relief to see affirmation after hearing everyone tell me I'm wrong!

My suggestion to work down slowly, is it one you are willing to consider?

debrag12

I meant to quote that. And I went and got the blood work and resting metabolic rate test done at a gym, and my metabolism is very low. According to most charts i should have rmr of about 1394, but mine is 1167. So to actually loose without spending two hours in the gym every day, I was told to eat a thousand calories a day by a nutritionist. That makes a lot of salads with minimal dressings, vegetable soups, and yogurts. So, I basically eat salads, soups, steamed veggies and yogurt. Sometimes a veggie sausage patty, usually a string cheese. Lots of fruit.

And my mom is physically active, sleeps enough, and never ever ever gets sick. I also don't think shes ate anything processed, or non free range/organic/locally farmed in years.

you're meant to eat below your TDEE not your BMR or have I missed what rmr is?

debrag12

I meant to quote that. And I went and got the blood work and resting metabolic rate test done at a gym, and my metabolism is very low. According to most charts i should have rmr of about 1394, but mine is 1167. So to actually loose without spending two hours in the gym every day, I was told to eat a thousand calories a day by a nutritionist. That makes a lot of salads with minimal dressings, vegetable soups, and yogurts. So, I basically eat salads, soups, steamed veggies and yogurt. Sometimes a veggie sausage patty, usually a string cheese. Lots of fruit.

And my mom is physically active, sleeps enough, and never ever ever gets sick. I also don't think shes ate anything processed, or non free range/organic/locally farmed in years.

not sure I would trust the test done at a gym...nor would I trust a "nutritionalist" period...registered dietician maybe...as long as they were current on their studies.

What kind of gym has the type of setup and staff required to perform an actual metabolic rate test?

well my gym has a nutritionist but I'm scared to go for this reason

maillemaker

Wow. I'm about 45 minutes through the video. This is really amazing stuff to me. The video is from 2004. I had heard rumblings of what this guy is talking about before - probably from this guy's presentation(s).

I'm not versed in this science, but from what I am following, what he is saying is that your body requires a certain amount of body fat to trigger the correct amount of leptin in your system to trigger the receptors in your body that regulated body temperature, hunger, and other homeostatic aspects.

When a fat person loses that body fat, you aren't producing as much leptin, which makes those receptors trigger physiological changes that trigger hunger and hypometabolism, which can make you feel cold!

Moreover, this hypometabolism means that when fat people lose 10-20% of their body fat they actually consume less energy to maintain their new weight as compared to people who were never obese!

So it turns out that there is something to this idea that when you lose weight your metabolism slows down! I had previously thought, from threads here, that this idea of "metabolic damage" due to weight loss was largely a myth, seen only in cases of acute starvation and single-digit body fat numbers.

But what this guy is showing is that, in studies now of 100-200 patients, when you lose weight your metabolism does in deed slow down. And, depressingly, they have extrapolated that this may be a long-term condition and is seen in people who have maintained weight loss for 3-4 years.

This guy is basically saying that there is likely a genetic component that is working to try and force the body back onto a certain homeostatic set point.

This is terrible news for weight loss but I'm so glad to know that I'm not crazy in being able to feel what I feel when I am losing weight.

msbardell

I miss...chips and salsa. Chips and Guac. F lamming Cheetos. More than one dinky ounce of cheese. Potatoes with cheese and salsa and onions and peppers..a whole baked one. Ice cream. Cashews. Damn I really miss cashews. Nuts. Peanut butter. One spoon is pathetic. Hummus. Chick Peas out of the can. Cheese enchilada. Eggplant Parm. Garlic bread with cheese. Eggs with cheese, peppers, onions, diced potatoes and salsa scrambled. Hash browns.

Girl, I'm with you. Sure all these things are fine in moderation, so is anything. But I miss the tummy-super-full-man-I'm-satisfied feeling. After a breakfast of 1/2 c. oatmeal, 2 hard boiled eggs, I'm still like, ok, where is the food? Please give me some fried eggs and ketchup and fried potatoes, please.

GIANT bowls of cereal with soymilk. mountains of short grain brown rice with stir fried vegetables.
yeah these are healthy in moderation, but moderation sucks.

Anyway, I sympathize with you.

FindingMyPerfection

Wow. I'm about 45 minutes through the video. This is really amazing stuff to me. The video is from 2004. I had heard rumblings of what this guy is talking about before - probably from this guy's presentation(s).

I'm not versed in this science, but from what I am following, what he is saying is that your body requires a certain amount of body fat to trigger the correct amount of leptin in your system to trigger the receptors in your body that regulated body temperature, hunger, and other homeostatic aspects.

When a fat person loses that body fat, you aren't producing as much leptin, which makes those receptors trigger physiological changes that trigger hunger and hypometabolism, which can make you feel cold!

Moreover, this hypometabolism means that when fat people lose 10-20% of their body fat they actually consume less energy to maintain their new weight as compared to people who were never obese!

So it turns out that there is something to this idea that when you lose weight your metabolism slows down! I had previously thought, from threads here, that this idea of "metabolic damage" due to weight loss was largely a myth, seen only in cases of acute starvation and single-digit body fat numbers.

But what this guy is showing is that, in studies now of 100-200 patients, when you lose weight your metabolism does in deed slow down. And, depressingly, they have extrapolated that this may be a long-term condition and is seen in people who have maintained weight loss for 3-4 years.

This guy is basically saying that there is likely a genetic component that is working to try and force the body back onto a certain homeostatic set point.

This is terrible news for weight loss but I'm so glad to know that I'm not crazy in being able to feel what I feel when I am losing weight.

Does he propose a solution?

determinedbutlazy

My boyfriend sent me a bag of american 79% dark chocolate squares (individually wrapped) and I eat two a day. I have eggs and onions and veggies as a lunch quite often. I don't like nuts but I eat a lot of the other stuff on your list.
Just eat SOME. Work it into your calories. If you have an unrealistic calorie goal (<1200 cals a day) you need to think about upping it so you CAN eat some food that makes you happy every now and then.
There's some fantastic advice on this post from ridiculously successful people... Maybe listen to them.

maillemaker

Does he propose a solution?

Answer is at about 49 minutes: "We don't know."

They have demonstrated (he talks about this just prior) that if you inject leptin back into the system to bring it up just to the pre-weight loss levels all of the symptoms of the weight loss are negated. Satiety is restored, metabolic function is restored.

Still watching.

DebbieLyn63

If I ate the recommended servings I would probably be moderate and still lose weight, but this isn't enough to make me feel full or satisfied.
I must say I'm also not one of those who feel satisfied with smaller portions of treats, so I can't include them in my everyday meals.

So who eats chocolate, nuts, chips, etc, to feel FULL?

You eat food for fuel and to not be HUNGRY. If you are eating sugar and junk food with the intent of getting FULL on them, then that is your basic problem. What you are describing is binging.

I eat protein, healthy fats, and veggies to fill me up.
I eat chocolate to make my taste buds happy!

Sounds like your basic thinking about food needs some adjusting.

ETA And I have omelets with ham, cheese, mushrooms, spinach, onions, etc for lunch every day, and have chocolate every day. Most days I even have a serving of chips and salsa as well.
I get all my macros in and still stay around 1200 cals a day.

maillemaker

Holy crap!!!!!!

Slide at 50 minutes for possible dietary suggestions (with admonition to "use whatever works"):

* Low glycemic diets may reduce appetite
* Low calorie density foods enhance satiety
* Less palatable foods reduce caloric intake

Man!!! This is just what people like me have been saying!!!!

This has twisted into this idea by laypeople that "sugar is bad" and into this "good food / bad food" or "clean eating" stuff, but it turns out that all of this probably has a very real root. I knew it! Jesus the validation is liberating.

FindingMyPerfection

Does he propose a solution?

Answer is at about 49 minutes: "We don't know."

They have demonstrated (he talks about this just prior) that if you inject leptin back into the system to bring it up just to the pre-weight loss levels all of the symptoms of the weight loss are negated. Satiety is restored, metabolic function is restored.

Still watching.

Is it possible that eating a higher fat diet whil still in a deficit may help? I know when I crave high fat sweets uncontrollably it is usually a day I have been quite low on my fat macros.

maillemaker

At 50:58 is a very powerful slide. The guy has shown through experimentation that changing the same number of calories from 10% fat to 70% fat made no difference in body weight.

This explains why there is this constant fight on these forums between the people who constantly harp that "a calorie is a calorie is a calorie" against those who are certain that it is not so.

It is so. The problem is it doesn't feel like it. If you switch to less palatable or less calorie dense foods you can influence your weight loss.

Sadly, according to this guy, it's generally not sustainable.

momtastic2014

I find healthier options that are similar to what I want or that are tasty enough to still feel like a treat.
Baked cornflake coated chicken insteadnof fried. Strawberry whipped cream yogurt or banana ice cream instead of regular ice cream. Sometimes small servings of the regular stuff.