Are we all..sexist?

mccindy72

I see the thread has been going on for a while now, so I may be way to late for people to still be reading... But this type of stuff is my bread and butter so I'll respond.

First... Both sides have their "woes" so technically... yeah, we are all sexist... to the opposite sex to some extent or the other. Just because men and women differ from each other.
Recently, a few of my guy friends told me that I was logical and that most girls weren't logical. It rubbed me the wrong way, because we are both equally logical just in different areas.

With that said, I believe that women get away with being more sexist than men because its generally more accepted in our society. Turn on the TV and watch any sitcom or movie and you will find men being treated as idiots and women as super intellects. Men are put down way more than women and women throw a fit when the tables are turned. Its like the saying "Men should never hit a woman... even if a woman hits him." Thats dumb. No one needs to be hitting period. HUGE double standard.

The negative effects of feminism is so steeped into our everyday life that most people can't identify it. Its why men are so feminine and women are so manly. (Oh, no! Gender roles!!!)

What the eff.

To which part?

Thinking maybe I should clear up that I don't think ALL men are feminine and women are manly. I just hear alot of women saying that men need to step up and be men... then women "stepping up" instead.

The whole thing. Gender inequality is one of the biggest problems in Western society today. Yeah, feminism as a movement isn't all rainbows and unicorns but the way that women are depicted in the media, and therefore treated by society in general, is a big freakin problem. It's horrific. Heck, just look at movies, TV, and pop music. It's very tough to find two women interacting with each other on a movie or TV screen about something other than a man, and the vast majority of female-led pop songs are either directly about a man or about how empowered the singer is without a man. Women are defined in our society by their romantic value to men.

The expected gender roles in western society set millions of people up for a great deal of misery and mental anguish when they don't fit into those roles. Your entire post just blows my mind.

Technically I rule the Western World right now... As a wife and mother, I make more money than my husband, and I'm the boss of a department of mostly men. :bigsmile:

jonnythan

Technically I rule the Western World right now... As a wife and mother, I make more money than my husband, and I'm the boss of a department of mostly men. :bigsmile:

And that's awesome and wonderful, and it's great that it's becoming less and less rare.

devil_in_a_blue_dress

Um, you 100% missed the point.

Attractive people in general get preferential treatment -- this means both men and women. If a man had beat out OP's friend, even if he was more attractive than the friend, his looks wouldn't be talked about as the reason.

Hiring because of beauty is benevolent sexism that hurts men more than women in this scenario, but discriminating because of beauty or lack thereof may not be as gender specific as it seems.

But the question I am asking you is, would we be talking about the appearance of person who beat out the Op's friend if she was male? Would people assume he got the job over the OP's friend because he's more attractive?

There is no doubt that attractive people are given preference. But would anyone have attributed Op's friend not getting the job to looks if the person who got the job was an attractive man?

If he were male I would assume some people would say it was the result of cis heterosexual white male privilege, that is until OP clarifies that he is black, gay, and a female-to male-transgendered person, then it would go back to diversity quotas.

I specially asked you a question and you are avoiding answering it, so last time:

If the Op's friend didn't get hired over another male candidate of the same sexual orientation and race, would his physical appearance be seen as the reason?

You can straw man all you want, but there is no need to downplay and diminish the sexism that women do face to make the sexism men face more legitimate.

breeshabebe

I see the thread has been going on for a while now, so I may be way to late for people to still be reading... But this type of stuff is my bread and butter so I'll respond.

First... Both sides have their "woes" so technically... yeah, we are all sexist... to the opposite sex to some extent or the other. Just because men and women differ from each other.
Recently, a few of my guy friends told me that I was logical and that most girls weren't logical. It rubbed me the wrong way, because we are both equally logical just in different areas.

With that said, I believe that women get away with being more sexist than men because its generally more accepted in our society. Turn on the TV and watch any sitcom or movie and you will find men being treated as idiots and women as super intellects. Men are put down way more than women and women throw a fit when the tables are turned. Its like the saying "Men should never hit a woman... even if a woman hits him." Thats dumb. No one needs to be hitting period. HUGE double standard.

The negative effects of feminism is so steeped into our everyday life that most people can't identify it. Its why men are so feminine and women are so manly. (Oh, no! Gender roles!!!)

What the eff.

To which part?

Thinking maybe I should clear up that I don't think ALL men are feminine and women are manly. I just hear alot of women saying that men need to step up and be men... then women "stepping up" instead.

The whole thing. Gender inequality is one of the biggest problems in Western society today. Yeah, feminism as a movement isn't all rainbows and unicorns but the way that women are depicted in the media, and therefore treated by society in general, is a big freakin problem. It's horrific. Heck, just look at movies, TV, and pop music. It's very tough to find two women interacting with each other on a movie or TV screen about something other than a man, and the vast majority of female-led pop songs are either directly about a man or about how empowered the singer is without a man. Women are defined in our society by their romantic value to men.

The expected gender roles in western society set millions of people up for a great deal of misery and mental anguish when they don't fit into those roles. Your entire post just blows my mind.

I agree with your first paragraph... this is a huge problem. But having gender roles isn't really to blame for those things... romance is a part of our lives. I haven't watch a manly action flick without there being some romantic thing thrown in. I don't see this as a gender roles problem.

The reverse effect is that women who truly desire to be stay- at- home mom's and housewives are looked down upon by our society as a whole. Women can't breastfeed in public (though that is getting better) they can't homeschool their own children, and they can't be in their home without friends and family asking them... "Is that all?"

somefitsomefat

Hmmm...all I know is I get affectionately called "big man" all the time (as in "What's going on big man?") because I'm overweight. Try out "What's up big girl?" on some of the ladies at the office and we'll see how equal the sexes are. I don't think this means women really get treated any better/worse but it does mean we get treated differently in some circumstances.

edit: me fail English and can't type good

jonnythan

Does romance mean strong man rescuing weak girl or something? What does romance have to do with it?

mccindy72

Does romance mean strong man rescuing weak girl or something? What does romance have to do with it?

I was kind of wondering that myself.

Mrsallypants

The negative effects of feminism is so steeped into our everyday life that most people can't identify it. Its why men are so feminine and women are so manly. (Oh, no! Gender roles!!!)

What exactly are you trying to say here ...

:huh:

Feminism is steeped into our everyday life....?

Feminism is broad term that means different things to different people. You're saying things and not really explaining what you mean, just assuming that people have them same understanding that you do. So this reply is equally vague.

The idea that men shouldn't hit women, but it's ok for women to hit men isn't because FEMINISM! It's because women have traditionally been viewed as the weaker sex -- fragile.

Well, I think wikipedia covers the way I am using the word feminism, itself. All of it. My vagueness was a bit intentional, in the last line, only because I think that feminism has so many effects that we could talk about it forever. (If you want to ask a specific question then, I'll answer.) In this case, the OP is asking if we are all sexist and if women are treated better than men. I'd say yes to both.... as a rule with exceptions.

Oh Wikipedia, the highest of authorities on everything.

Feminism is about equality. What you described in your posts was sexism. Brush up on your terms.

ETA: The OP's friend didn't get the job and made up external excuses rather than focusing on what he could do to better himself. Sounds like he will go very far in life.

Didn't feminists have a Wikipedia edit-a-thon not too far back? http://www.thedailybeast.com/witw/articles/2014/02/05/wikipedia-meets-feminism.html

Seems like they would at least get the article on feminism correct. lol


Here is the best argument on the ol' " feminism is about equality" canard: http://youtu.be/fXIjLJWHJUo

breeshabebe

Does romance mean strong man rescuing weak girl or something? What does romance have to do with it?

You said," It's very tough to find two women interacting with each other on a movie or TV screen about something other than a man, and the vast majority of female-led pop songs are either directly about a man or about how empowered the singer is without a man. Women are defined in our society by their romantic value to men. "


I thought you were refering to chicflicks and romantic storylines. I was just pointing out that that's in alot of our movies.. just because we are romantic/relational creatures... and it just is.

devil_in_a_blue_dress

I see the thread has been going on for a while now, so I may be way to late for people to still be reading... But this type of stuff is my bread and butter so I'll respond.

First... Both sides have their "woes" so technically... yeah, we are all sexist... to the opposite sex to some extent or the other. Just because men and women differ from each other.
Recently, a few of my guy friends told me that I was logical and that most girls weren't logical. It rubbed me the wrong way, because we are both equally logical just in different areas.

With that said, I believe that women get away with being more sexist than men because its generally more accepted in our society. Turn on the TV and watch any sitcom or movie and you will find men being treated as idiots and women as super intellects. Men are put down way more than women and women throw a fit when the tables are turned. Its like the saying "Men should never hit a woman... even if a woman hits him." Thats dumb. No one needs to be hitting period. HUGE double standard.

The negative effects of feminism is so steeped into our everyday life that most people can't identify it. Its why men are so feminine and women are so manly. (Oh, no! Gender roles!!!)

What the eff.

To which part?

Thinking maybe I should clear up that I don't think ALL men are feminine and women are manly. I just hear alot of women saying that men need to step up and be men... then women "stepping up" instead.

The whole thing. Gender inequality is one of the biggest problems in Western society today. Yeah, feminism as a movement isn't all rainbows and unicorns but the way that women are depicted in the media, and therefore treated by society in general, is a big freakin problem. It's horrific. Heck, just look at movies, TV, and pop music. It's very tough to find two women interacting with each other on a movie or TV screen about something other than a man, and the vast majority of female-led pop songs are either directly about a man or about how empowered the singer is without a man. Women are defined in our society by their romantic value to men.

The expected gender roles in western society set millions of people up for a great deal of misery and mental anguish when they don't fit into those roles. Your entire post just blows my mind.

I agree with your first paragraph... this is a huge problem. But having gender roles isn't really to blame for those things... romance is a part of our lives. I haven't watch a manly action flick without there being some romantic thing thrown in. I don't see this as a gender roles problem.

The reverse effect is that women who truly desire to be stay- at- home mom's and housewives are looked down upon by our society as a whole. Women can't breastfeed in public (though that is getting better) they can't homeschool their own children, and they can't be in their home without friends and family asking them... "Is that all?"

I am so confused by everything you are saying...

Do you really think romance in action movies doesn't speak to how women are generally viewed as an accessory to mysterious/exciting men ... because you know, it kind of does.

breeshabebe

Where you just trying to point out that media portays women as needing men?

Oscarinmiami

good looking women get treated better than less attractive women... Good looking tall men get treated better than short less attractive men....that is a fact

jonnythan

Does romance mean strong man rescuing weak girl or something? What does romance have to do with it?

You said," It's very tough to find two women interacting with each other on a movie or TV screen about something other than a man, and the vast majority of female-led pop songs are either directly about a man or about how empowered the singer is without a man. Women are defined in our society by their romantic value to men. "


I thought you were refering to chicflicks and romantic storylines. I was just pointing out that that's in alot of our movies.. just because we are romantic/relational creatures... and it just is.

I'm talking about all media. Look up the Bechdel Test.

mccindy72

Does romance mean strong man rescuing weak girl or something? What does romance have to do with it?

You said," It's very tough to find two women interacting with each other on a movie or TV screen about something other than a man, and the vast majority of female-led pop songs are either directly about a man or about how empowered the singer is without a man. Women are defined in our society by their romantic value to men. "


I thought you were refering to chicflicks and romantic storylines. I was just pointing out that that's in alot of our movies.. just because we are romantic/relational creatures... and it just is.

No, it's because women are typically forced into roles where they are either the "woman behind the strong male lead" or the evil counterpart to the other female in the movie. We've seen some differences lately (The Heat) but not many. If there are a couple of women in a movie they often play antagonists.

breeshabebe

I see the thread has been going on for a while now, so I may be way to late for people to still be reading... But this type of stuff is my bread and butter so I'll respond.

First... Both sides have their "woes" so technically... yeah, we are all sexist... to the opposite sex to some extent or the other. Just because men and women differ from each other.
Recently, a few of my guy friends told me that I was logical and that most girls weren't logical. It rubbed me the wrong way, because we are both equally logical just in different areas.

With that said, I believe that women get away with being more sexist than men because its generally more accepted in our society. Turn on the TV and watch any sitcom or movie and you will find men being treated as idiots and women as super intellects. Men are put down way more than women and women throw a fit when the tables are turned. Its like the saying "Men should never hit a woman... even if a woman hits him." Thats dumb. No one needs to be hitting period. HUGE double standard.

The negative effects of feminism is so steeped into our everyday life that most people can't identify it. Its why men are so feminine and women are so manly. (Oh, no! Gender roles!!!)

What the eff.

To which part?

Thinking maybe I should clear up that I don't think ALL men are feminine and women are manly. I just hear alot of women saying that men need to step up and be men... then women "stepping up" instead.

The whole thing. Gender inequality is one of the biggest problems in Western society today. Yeah, feminism as a movement isn't all rainbows and unicorns but the way that women are depicted in the media, and therefore treated by society in general, is a big freakin problem. It's horrific. Heck, just look at movies, TV, and pop music. It's very tough to find two women interacting with each other on a movie or TV screen about something other than a man, and the vast majority of female-led pop songs are either directly about a man or about how empowered the singer is without a man. Women are defined in our society by their romantic value to men.

The expected gender roles in western society set millions of people up for a great deal of misery and mental anguish when they don't fit into those roles. Your entire post just blows my mind.

I agree with your first paragraph... this is a huge problem. But having gender roles isn't really to blame for those things... romance is a part of our lives. I haven't watch a manly action flick without there being some romantic thing thrown in. I don't see this as a gender roles problem.

The reverse effect is that women who truly desire to be stay- at- home mom's and housewives are looked down upon by our society as a whole. Women can't breastfeed in public (though that is getting better) they can't homeschool their own children, and they can't be in their home without friends and family asking them... "Is that all?"

I am so confused by everything you are saying...

Do you really think romance in action movies doesn't speak to how women are generally viewed as an accessory to mysterious/exciting men ... because you know, it kind of does.

I'm trying to be clear..

Women are viewed as an accessory-- and this is wrong... but most people can see it and say that it's wrong.

Men are treated as complete idiots-- and no one notices or says a word about it.

jonnythan

Men are portrayed as idiots as foils to smart, in control men. Men as idiots in comparison as a serious treatment or societal norm is..rare.

mccindy72

I see the thread has been going on for a while now, so I may be way to late for people to still be reading... But this type of stuff is my bread and butter so I'll respond.

First... Both sides have their "woes" so technically... yeah, we are all sexist... to the opposite sex to some extent or the other. Just because men and women differ from each other.
Recently, a few of my guy friends told me that I was logical and that most girls weren't logical. It rubbed me the wrong way, because we are both equally logical just in different areas.

With that said, I believe that women get away with being more sexist than men because its generally more accepted in our society. Turn on the TV and watch any sitcom or movie and you will find men being treated as idiots and women as super intellects. Men are put down way more than women and women throw a fit when the tables are turned. Its like the saying "Men should never hit a woman... even if a woman hits him." Thats dumb. No one needs to be hitting period. HUGE double standard.

The negative effects of feminism is so steeped into our everyday life that most people can't identify it. Its why men are so feminine and women are so manly. (Oh, no! Gender roles!!!)

What the eff.

To which part?

Thinking maybe I should clear up that I don't think ALL men are feminine and women are manly. I just hear alot of women saying that men need to step up and be men... then women "stepping up" instead.

The whole thing. Gender inequality is one of the biggest problems in Western society today. Yeah, feminism as a movement isn't all rainbows and unicorns but the way that women are depicted in the media, and therefore treated by society in general, is a big freakin problem. It's horrific. Heck, just look at movies, TV, and pop music. It's very tough to find two women interacting with each other on a movie or TV screen about something other than a man, and the vast majority of female-led pop songs are either directly about a man or about how empowered the singer is without a man. Women are defined in our society by their romantic value to men.

The expected gender roles in western society set millions of people up for a great deal of misery and mental anguish when they don't fit into those roles. Your entire post just blows my mind.

I agree with your first paragraph... this is a huge problem. But having gender roles isn't really to blame for those things... romance is a part of our lives. I haven't watch a manly action flick without there being some romantic thing thrown in. I don't see this as a gender roles problem.

The reverse effect is that women who truly desire to be stay- at- home mom's and housewives are looked down upon by our society as a whole. Women can't breastfeed in public (though that is getting better) they can't homeschool their own children, and they can't be in their home without friends and family asking them... "Is that all?"

I am so confused by everything you are saying...

Do you really think romance in action movies doesn't speak to how women are generally viewed as an accessory to mysterious/exciting men ... because you know, it kind of does.

I'm trying to be clear..

Women are viewed as an accessory-- and this is wrong... but most people can see it and say that it's wrong.

Men are treated as complete idiots-- and no one notices or says a word about it.

You obviously haven't seen Star Trek.

breeshabebe

Does romance mean strong man rescuing weak girl or something? What does romance have to do with it?

You said," It's very tough to find two women interacting with each other on a movie or TV screen about something other than a man, and the vast majority of female-led pop songs are either directly about a man or about how empowered the singer is without a man. Women are defined in our society by their romantic value to men. "


I thought you were refering to chicflicks and romantic storylines. I was just pointing out that that's in alot of our movies.. just because we are romantic/relational creatures... and it just is.

I'm talking about all media. Look up the Bechdel Test.

Wikipedia version okay?

Mrsallypants

Um, you 100% missed the point.

Attractive people in general get preferential treatment -- this means both men and women. If a man had beat out OP's friend, even if he was more attractive than the friend, his looks wouldn't be talked about as the reason.

Hiring because of beauty is benevolent sexism that hurts men more than women in this scenario, but discriminating because of beauty or lack thereof may not be as gender specific as it seems.

But the question I am asking you is, would we be talking about the appearance of person who beat out the Op's friend if she was male? Would people assume he got the job over the OP's friend because he's more attractive?

There is no doubt that attractive people are given preference. But would anyone have attributed Op's friend not getting the job to looks if the person who got the job was an attractive man?

If he were male I would assume some people would say it was the result of cis heterosexual white male privilege, that is until OP clarifies that he is black, gay, and a female-to male-transgendered person, then it would go back to diversity quotas.

I specially asked you a question and you are avoiding answering it, so last time:

If the Op's friend didn't get hired over another male candidate of the same sexual orientation and race, would his physical appearance be seen as the reason?

You can straw man all you want, but there is no need to downplay and diminish the sexism that women do face to make the sexism men face more legitimate.

That would be the most obvious complaint, that he is privileged because of his gender (if roles were reversed). If people can manage to get past that, then his looks i.e. height, smile, hair, musculature may come into play.

somefitsomefat

I see the thread has been going on for a while now, so I may be way to late for people to still be reading... But this type of stuff is my bread and butter so I'll respond.

First... Both sides have their "woes" so technically... yeah, we are all sexist... to the opposite sex to some extent or the other. Just because men and women differ from each other.
Recently, a few of my guy friends told me that I was logical and that most girls weren't logical. It rubbed me the wrong way, because we are both equally logical just in different areas.

With that said, I believe that women get away with being more sexist than men because its generally more accepted in our society. Turn on the TV and watch any sitcom or movie and you will find men being treated as idiots and women as super intellects. Men are put down way more than women and women throw a fit when the tables are turned. Its like the saying "Men should never hit a woman... even if a woman hits him." Thats dumb. No one needs to be hitting period. HUGE double standard.

The negative effects of feminism is so steeped into our everyday life that most people can't identify it. Its why men are so feminine and women are so manly. (Oh, no! Gender roles!!!)

What the eff.

To which part?

Thinking maybe I should clear up that I don't think ALL men are feminine and women are manly. I just hear alot of women saying that men need to step up and be men... then women "stepping up" instead.

The whole thing. Gender inequality is one of the biggest problems in Western society today. Yeah, feminism as a movement isn't all rainbows and unicorns but the way that women are depicted in the media, and therefore treated by society in general, is a big freakin problem. It's horrific. Heck, just look at movies, TV, and pop music. It's very tough to find two women interacting with each other on a movie or TV screen about something other than a man, and the vast majority of female-led pop songs are either directly about a man or about how empowered the singer is without a man. Women are defined in our society by their romantic value to men.

The expected gender roles in western society set millions of people up for a great deal of misery and mental anguish when they don't fit into those roles. Your entire post just blows my mind.

I agree with your first paragraph... this is a huge problem. But having gender roles isn't really to blame for those things... romance is a part of our lives. I haven't watch a manly action flick without there being some romantic thing thrown in. I don't see this as a gender roles problem.

The reverse effect is that women who truly desire to be stay- at- home mom's and housewives are looked down upon by our society as a whole. Women can't breastfeed in public (though that is getting better) they can't homeschool their own children, and they can't be in their home without friends and family asking them... "Is that all?"

I am so confused by everything you are saying...

Do you really think romance in action movies doesn't speak to how women are generally viewed as an accessory to mysterious/exciting men ... because you know, it kind of does.

I'm trying to be clear..

Women are viewed as an accessory-- and this is wrong... but most people can see it and say that it's wrong.

Men are treated as complete idiots-- and no one notices or says a word about it.

I'll just leave this right here...

http://www.webpronews.com/huggies-ad-backlash-sweeps-web-as-angry-dads-protest-2012-03