Are we all..sexist?

mccindy72

I see the thread has been going on for a while now, so I may be way to late for people to still be reading... But this type of stuff is my bread and butter so I'll respond.

First... Both sides have their "woes" so technically... yeah, we are all sexist... to the opposite sex to some extent or the other. Just because men and women differ from each other.
Recently, a few of my guy friends told me that I was logical and that most girls weren't logical. It rubbed me the wrong way, because we are both equally logical just in different areas.

With that said, I believe that women get away with being more sexist than men because its generally more accepted in our society. Turn on the TV and watch any sitcom or movie and you will find men being treated as idiots and women as super intellects. Men are put down way more than women and women throw a fit when the tables are turned. Its like the saying "Men should never hit a woman... even if a woman hits him." Thats dumb. No one needs to be hitting period. HUGE double standard.

The negative effects of feminism is so steeped into our everyday life that most people can't identify it. Its why men are so feminine and women are so manly. (Oh, no! Gender roles!!!)

What the eff.

To which part?

Thinking maybe I should clear up that I don't think ALL men are feminine and women are manly. I just hear alot of women saying that men need to step up and be men... then women "stepping up" instead.

The whole thing. Gender inequality is one of the biggest problems in Western society today. Yeah, feminism as a movement isn't all rainbows and unicorns but the way that women are depicted in the media, and therefore treated by society in general, is a big freakin problem. It's horrific. Heck, just look at movies, TV, and pop music. It's very tough to find two women interacting with each other on a movie or TV screen about something other than a man, and the vast majority of female-led pop songs are either directly about a man or about how empowered the singer is without a man. Women are defined in our society by their romantic value to men.

The expected gender roles in western society set millions of people up for a great deal of misery and mental anguish when they don't fit into those roles. Your entire post just blows my mind.

I agree with your first paragraph... this is a huge problem. But having gender roles isn't really to blame for those things... romance is a part of our lives. I haven't watch a manly action flick without there being some romantic thing thrown in. I don't see this as a gender roles problem.

The reverse effect is that women who truly desire to be stay- at- home mom's and housewives are looked down upon by our society as a whole. Women can't breastfeed in public (though that is getting better) they can't homeschool their own children, and they can't be in their home without friends and family asking them... "Is that all?"

I am so confused by everything you are saying...

Do you really think romance in action movies doesn't speak to how women are generally viewed as an accessory to mysterious/exciting men ... because you know, it kind of does.

I'm trying to be clear..

Women are viewed as an accessory-- and this is wrong... but most people can see it and say that it's wrong.

Men are treated as complete idiots-- and no one notices or says a word about it.

I'll just leave this right here...

http://www.webpronews.com/huggies-ad-backlash-sweeps-web-as-angry-dads-protest-2012-03

Making guys look like idiots in father roles is really probably the only way men are consistently made to look stupid on television. They are locked into the away-from-home breadwinner role in the minds of TV America.

Mrsallypants

I'm trying to be clear..

Women are viewed as an accessory-- and this is wrong... but most people can see it and say that it's wrong.

Men are treated as complete idiots-- and no one notices or says a word about it.

You're right, a video showing your contention: http://youtu.be/S62sl-qWEqo

Smart strong women, men as dumb foils to. - Yoda

mank32

just throwing this in here because i was shocked at how bad it really is, close to (my) home:

scary, institutionalized sexism: handling of sexual assault cases by county attourney's office in Missoula, MT. this was in our paper recently (i'm elsewhere in the state). i'm at work or i'd provide a link. sex assault cases given low priorty. sex assault victims getting little or no feedback on the status of their cases. mother of a sexually assaulted girl told, "Boys wil be boys." and so forth.

first it was U of M campus rapes. now this. sexism is alive and well in the 'last best place'. :sick:

if you are a woman, don't go to Missoula. :frown:

devil_in_a_blue_dress

Does romance mean strong man rescuing weak girl or something? What does romance have to do with it?

You said," It's very tough to find two women interacting with each other on a movie or TV screen about something other than a man, and the vast majority of female-led pop songs are either directly about a man or about how empowered the singer is without a man. Women are defined in our society by their romantic value to men. "


I thought you were refering to chicflicks and romantic storylines. I was just pointing out that that's in alot of our movies.. just because we are romantic/relational creatures... and it just is.

I'm talking about all media. Look up the Bechdel Test.

Wikipedia version okay?

Do you think its funny to not use solid sources to formulate your world view?

Mrsallypants

Does romance mean strong man rescuing weak girl or something? What does romance have to do with it?

You said," It's very tough to find two women interacting with each other on a movie or TV screen about something other than a man, and the vast majority of female-led pop songs are either directly about a man or about how empowered the singer is without a man. Women are defined in our society by their romantic value to men. "


I thought you were refering to chicflicks and romantic storylines. I was just pointing out that that's in alot of our movies.. just because we are romantic/relational creatures... and it just is.

I'm talking about all media. Look up the Bechdel Test.

Wikipedia version okay?

Do you think its funny to not use solid sources to formulate your world view?

Pot kettle black. lol

breeshabebe

Men are portrayed as idiots as foils to smart, in control men. Men as idiots in comparison as a serious treatment or societal norm is..rare.

Maybe... but it's still forming the way that we and our children think about men. I remember when I was 5, my mom couldn't fit my ken doll in the front of my barbie car... so she said.. well men can't drive anyway and told me that he needed to sit in the passenger side. For YEARS I really thought all men were terrible drivers.

That's silly, but if little things like that have an effect on our mind... how much greater effects does seeing it in television and media EVERYDAY?

It's not that women don't have legit struggles... but its that men's aren't brought to light near as much.
The world is worried that women are being photoshopped and this is a huge deal because it's changing the way we see beauty but aren't men photoshopped too?

breeshabebe

Does romance mean strong man rescuing weak girl or something? What does romance have to do with it?

You said," It's very tough to find two women interacting with each other on a movie or TV screen about something other than a man, and the vast majority of female-led pop songs are either directly about a man or about how empowered the singer is without a man. Women are defined in our society by their romantic value to men. "


I thought you were refering to chicflicks and romantic storylines. I was just pointing out that that's in alot of our movies.. just because we are romantic/relational creatures... and it just is.

I'm talking about all media. Look up the Bechdel Test.

Wikipedia version okay?

Do you think its funny to not use solid sources to formulate your world view?

Do you have anything to add? At all? Do you have a different definition of feminism that you would like to argue? Wikipedia was just the fastest link.. You asked that I define the way I am using the word feminism... wikipedia does a good job doing that. If you have another, I'll hear it.

devil_in_a_blue_dress

Does romance mean strong man rescuing weak girl or something? What does romance have to do with it?

You said," It's very tough to find two women interacting with each other on a movie or TV screen about something other than a man, and the vast majority of female-led pop songs are either directly about a man or about how empowered the singer is without a man. Women are defined in our society by their romantic value to men. "


I thought you were refering to chicflicks and romantic storylines. I was just pointing out that that's in alot of our movies.. just because we are romantic/relational creatures... and it just is.

I'm talking about all media. Look up the Bechdel Test.

Wikipedia version okay?

Do you think its funny to not use solid sources to formulate your world view?

Pot kettle black. lol

Um, have I provided to you or anyone else the source material for my views and understanding of the world? No. I have not. You have likely made assumptions, meanwhile decrying peer reviewed studies from reputable sources in favor of youtube videos.

Mrsallypants

Maybe... but it's still forming the way that we and our children think about men. I remember when I was 5, my mom couldn't fit my ken doll in the front of my barbie car... so she said.. well men can't drive anyway and told me that he needed to sit in the passenger side. For YEARS I really thought all men were terrible drivers.

That's silly, but if little things like that have an effect on our mind... how much greater effects does seeing it in television and media EVERYDAY?

It's not that women don't have legit struggles... but its that men's aren't brought to light near as much.
The world is worried that women are being photoshopped and this is a huge deal because it's changing the way we see beauty but aren't men photoshopped too?

Yeah i know you will say it (ANOTHER YOUTUBE VIDEO!), but damn, YouTube completely covers gender issues so well and I don't even have to type much: http://youtu.be/9wbTX49padE

It's a video satire of the pop feminist Laci Green's video on feminist sexual objectification theory.

Mrsallypants

Does romance mean strong man rescuing weak girl or something? What does romance have to do with it?

You said," It's very tough to find two women interacting with each other on a movie or TV screen about something other than a man, and the vast majority of female-led pop songs are either directly about a man or about how empowered the singer is without a man. Women are defined in our society by their romantic value to men. "


I thought you were refering to chicflicks and romantic storylines. I was just pointing out that that's in alot of our movies.. just because we are romantic/relational creatures... and it just is.

I'm talking about all media. Look up the Bechdel Test.

Wikipedia version okay?

Do you think its funny to not use solid sources to formulate your world view?

Pot kettle black. lol

Um, have I provided to you or anyone else the source material for my views and understanding of the world? No. I have not. You have likely made assumptions, meanwhile decrying peer reviewed studies from reputable sources in favor of youtube videos.

The videos have sources and reason, something pseudo-intellectual feminists are not use to. Back to Jezebel.com from whence you came! lol

devil_in_a_blue_dress

Does romance mean strong man rescuing weak girl or something? What does romance have to do with it?

You said," It's very tough to find two women interacting with each other on a movie or TV screen about something other than a man, and the vast majority of female-led pop songs are either directly about a man or about how empowered the singer is without a man. Women are defined in our society by their romantic value to men. "


I thought you were refering to chicflicks and romantic storylines. I was just pointing out that that's in alot of our movies.. just because we are romantic/relational creatures... and it just is.

I'm talking about all media. Look up the Bechdel Test.

Wikipedia version okay?

Do you think its funny to not use solid sources to formulate your world view?

Do you have anything to add? At all? Do you have a different definition of feminism that you would like to argue? Wikipedia was just the fastest link.. You asked that I define the way I am using the word feminism... wikipedia does a good job doing that. If you have another, I'll hear it.

It's not about the definition itself -- it is about the source of the definition.

You said yourself you are forming your ideas and working through this issue -- that is why your sources matter and where you choose to locate your information matters. Look for sources that aren't user created. That's all.

devil_in_a_blue_dress

Does romance mean strong man rescuing weak girl or something? What does romance have to do with it?

You said," It's very tough to find two women interacting with each other on a movie or TV screen about something other than a man, and the vast majority of female-led pop songs are either directly about a man or about how empowered the singer is without a man. Women are defined in our society by their romantic value to men. "


I thought you were refering to chicflicks and romantic storylines. I was just pointing out that that's in alot of our movies.. just because we are romantic/relational creatures... and it just is.

I'm talking about all media. Look up the Bechdel Test.

Wikipedia version okay?

Do you think its funny to not use solid sources to formulate your world view?

Pot kettle black. lol

Um, have I provided to you or anyone else the source material for my views and understanding of the world? No. I have not. You have likely made assumptions, meanwhile decrying peer reviewed studies from reputable sources in favor of youtube videos.

The videos have sources and reason, something pseudo-intellectual feminists are not use to. Back to Jezebel.com from whence you came! lol

Yep, let's see those true colors.

Mrsallypants

Does romance mean strong man rescuing weak girl or something? What does romance have to do with it?

You said," It's very tough to find two women interacting with each other on a movie or TV screen about something other than a man, and the vast majority of female-led pop songs are either directly about a man or about how empowered the singer is without a man. Women are defined in our society by their romantic value to men. "


I thought you were refering to chicflicks and romantic storylines. I was just pointing out that that's in alot of our movies.. just because we are romantic/relational creatures... and it just is.

I'm talking about all media. Look up the Bechdel Test.

Wikipedia version okay?

Do you think its funny to not use solid sources to formulate your world view?

Pot kettle black. lol

Um, have I provided to you or anyone else the source material for my views and understanding of the world? No. I have not. You have likely made assumptions, meanwhile decrying peer reviewed studies from reputable sources in favor of youtube videos.

The videos have sources and reason, something pseudo-intellectual feminists are not use to. Back to Jezebel.com from whence you came! lol

Yep, let's see those true colors.

Yes, your sources and proof are solid alright:

Let's take a look at them, here they are:

N
O
T
H
I
N
G

determined_erin

Definitely disagree with this post, as women only benefit if they look a certain way. I look average, maybe less than that. lol And I have never had anything handed to me. Women are ignored and deemed useless by a sexist person unless the woman has perfect 10/10 looks.

devil_in_a_blue_dress

Does romance mean strong man rescuing weak girl or something? What does romance have to do with it?

You said," It's very tough to find two women interacting with each other on a movie or TV screen about something other than a man, and the vast majority of female-led pop songs are either directly about a man or about how empowered the singer is without a man. Women are defined in our society by their romantic value to men. "


I thought you were refering to chicflicks and romantic storylines. I was just pointing out that that's in alot of our movies.. just because we are romantic/relational creatures... and it just is.

I'm talking about all media. Look up the Bechdel Test.

Wikipedia version okay?

Do you think its funny to not use solid sources to formulate your world view?

Pot kettle black. lol

Um, have I provided to you or anyone else the source material for my views and understanding of the world? No. I have not. You have likely made assumptions, meanwhile decrying peer reviewed studies from reputable sources in favor of youtube videos.

The videos have sources and reason, something pseudo-intellectual feminists are not use to. Back to Jezebel.com from whence you came! lol

Yep, let's see those true colors.

Yes, your sources and proof are solid alright:

Let's take a look at them, here they are:

N
O
T
H
I
N
G

I haven't made a statement that needed sources. I haven't argued that something is right or wrong.

I asked you a question that you can't seem to answer.

So if you want to talk about nothing, let's talk about your non-response.

breeshabebe

Does romance mean strong man rescuing weak girl or something? What does romance have to do with it?

You said," It's very tough to find two women interacting with each other on a movie or TV screen about something other than a man, and the vast majority of female-led pop songs are either directly about a man or about how empowered the singer is without a man. Women are defined in our society by their romantic value to men. "


I thought you were refering to chicflicks and romantic storylines. I was just pointing out that that's in alot of our movies.. just because we are romantic/relational creatures... and it just is.

I'm talking about all media. Look up the Bechdel Test.

Wikipedia version okay?

Do you think its funny to not use solid sources to formulate your world view?

Do you have anything to add? At all? Do you have a different definition of feminism that you would like to argue? Wikipedia was just the fastest link.. You asked that I define the way I am using the word feminism... wikipedia does a good job doing that. If you have another, I'll hear it.

It's not about the definition itself -- it is about the source of the definition.

You said yourself you are forming your ideas and working through this issue -- that is why your sources matter and where you choose to locate your information matters. Look for sources that aren't user created. That's all.

Yea.. Thanks for the clarification. I definitely haven't formed my views based on Wikipedia. I read alot.. articles.. books.. listen to speakers. Most of them share the same worldview-- Christianity, though I do read some outside of that.

AllieBear88

Sure, you get special treatment. And you also get crapped on. It's all in how you look at things.

The women probably got hired because they could pay them less. Or, if they were truly "eye candy," I'm willing to bet that it's not going to be a very pleasant work environment for them. You can only be called "honey" so many times before it starts to stick in your craw.

People are often more courteous to women, because of the old-fashioned ideas of chivalry. But that only goes so far.

^^Everything here!

Mrsallypants

Feminism: the doctrine advocating social, political, and all other rights of women equal to those of men. -Dictionary.com

This is what you would call nebulous. What does equality even mean? How does creating rape culture mythology, the pathetic phoney wage gap, constantly pushing bad statistics on rape and domestic violence, creating illegal protests, or asinine sexual objectification theory fit into equality?

Simple, it doesn't.

Let's look at another nebulous definition now:

Rape: the unlawful compelling of a person through physical force or duress to have sexual intercourse.

Many states have their own definition of rape, even the FBI recently changed their definition on what rape is, but popular usage from common dictionaries tells us everything we need to know on wehat rape is *eyes roll*. I linked a video explaining this simple concept.

Mrsallypants

Does romance mean strong man rescuing weak girl or something? What does romance have to do with it?

You said," It's very tough to find two women interacting with each other on a movie or TV screen about something other than a man, and the vast majority of female-led pop songs are either directly about a man or about how empowered the singer is without a man. Women are defined in our society by their romantic value to men. "


I thought you were refering to chicflicks and romantic storylines. I was just pointing out that that's in alot of our movies.. just because we are romantic/relational creatures... and it just is.

I'm talking about all media. Look up the Bechdel Test.

Wikipedia version okay?

Do you think its funny to not use solid sources to formulate your world view?

Pot kettle black. lol

Um, have I provided to you or anyone else the source material for my views and understanding of the world? No. I have not. You have likely made assumptions, meanwhile decrying peer reviewed studies from reputable sources in favor of youtube videos.

The videos have sources and reason, something pseudo-intellectual feminists are not use to. Back to Jezebel.com from whence you came! lol

Yep, let's see those true colors.

Yes, your sources and proof are solid alright:

Let's take a look at them, here they are:

N
O
T
H
I
N
G

I haven't made a statement that needed sources. I haven't argued that something is right or wrong.

I asked you a question that you can't seem to answer.

So if you want to talk about nothing, let's talk about your non-response.

I responded to you, and even linked to a study in this thread many comments back. You desperately want to see a world fraught with sexism against women. That is your bias and your ideology - it's the type of skewed world view common amongst feminists - where sexism is omnipresent.

redheadmommy

Honestly in the initial story the only person who is sexist is the OP's friend, who immediately assumes the girl get hired because she was an eye-candy. A fresh grad vs fresh grad with a single yr of experience is not a huge difference in qualification in my book. A better fit personality plays a way bigger role in hiring than such little difference in qualification. I rather work with somebody who is a tiny bit less qualified, but have a great personality than with a guy who is a crybaby and gets upset on every little thing like the deli worker do not ask what piece of chicken he wants.