Paleo = dying young?
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Sigh. Do whatever freaking works for you. I know many people who personally feel better now than they ever have because of switching to a Paleo lifestyle. All you have to do is Google and you will see a score of people who are now ailment-free because of ditching grains, gluten, dairy, etc. You really think all these people are making it up? Sorry, I don't.
Aren't anecdotes awesome?!
Would you like my husband's oncologist at Mayo clinic to forward his PET scans? He's stage 4 inoperable, he had nothing to lose by participating in a Keto study to test the efficacy of glucose starvation on advanced stage tumors. CEA markers dropped form 189 to 11. I'm sorry this rustle your jimmies. But hey your internet posts = Medical degree.
Nah, but I could forward you the cases where that didn't work with people! But it's awesome your husband's condition appears to be improving! :flowerforyou:
Also, for the record, I don't care at all if someone does Paleo. Whatever. But I do care when anecdotes get turned into "Everyone else is wrong because *I* experienced it." Particularly when that type of thinking often lines up with other paths of thought, none of which ever changes for a person, no matter what evidence they see.
And, well, I was just taking a break from work.
Actually yes could you please provide peer reviewed double blind studies on stage 4 cancers and low carbohydrate. I mean since you are the authority on this subject.0 -
Actually yes could you please provide peer reviewed double blind studies on stage 4 cancers and low carbohydrate. I mean since you are the authority on this subject.
Oh now we're talking about low carb, not Paleo. Impressive how quickly you made that turn.0 -
I see paleo as more as someone choosing to eat vegetarian.
My problem with this statement is that I know quite a few vegetarians and a handful of vegans...they're full time vegetarians and vegans. Every paleo eater I know is paleo...except on Saturdays when they go grab a pizza...or they're paleo except they eat legumes...or, they're paleo X% of the time...or they're paleo except they were just craving a snickers so they had one, etc.
It's like religious people who pick and choose which parts of a particular religion pertain to them and which parts can be ignored. It's pretty ridiculous really...and I truly believe that it is overwhelmingly a fad.0 -
Sigh. Do whatever freaking works for you. I know many people who personally feel better now than they ever have because of switching to a Paleo lifestyle. All you have to do is Google and you will see a score of people who are now ailment-free because of ditching grains, gluten, dairy, etc. You really think all these people are making it up? Sorry, I don't.
Aren't anecdotes awesome?!
Would you like my husband's oncologist at Mayo clinic to forward his PET scans? He's stage 4 inoperable, he had nothing to lose by participating in a Keto study to test the efficacy of glucose starvation on advanced stage tumors. CEA markers dropped form 189 to 11. I'm sorry this rustle your jimmies. But hey your internet posts = Medical degree.
You don't know what "anecdotes" means, do you? Because you responded to a poster stating (sarcastically) that anecdotes don't prove anything with an anecdote.
No I know what an anecdote means. He is participating in a double blind study that will be published. I'm not sure if science is no longer an acceptable authenticating results. I guess MFP cred is the gold standard.0 -
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Sigh. Do whatever freaking works for you. I know many people who personally feel better now than they ever have because of switching to a Paleo lifestyle. All you have to do is Google and you will see a score of people who are now ailment-free because of ditching grains, gluten, dairy, etc. You really think all these people are making it up? Sorry, I don't.
Aren't anecdotes awesome?!
Absolutely, they are. When a friend tells me how great they feel, sorry if I don't feel the urge to tell them 'Nope, sorry, don't believe you. I need science.'
I feel pretty amazing, and I eat beans and fast food. So, uh..... perhaps "feels great" isn't really a great thing to go by?
That's awesome! That works for you.
I just wish people would just let each other do their own thing...took me a while on here to realize that everyone has to find what works for them.
And obviously, it was more than her just telling me how great she feels...she's lost 20 pounds, 3 dress sizes, and her stomach issues are gone as well as her joint inflammation.
What happened to just being happy for someone and thinking it's great that they found something that works for them instead of always a debate?
The problem is when people say something like "All you have to do is Google and you will see a score of people who are now ailment-free" as if it's evidence of something. It's not.
Okay, I get it. Poor choice of words.0 -
No I know what an anecdote means. He is participating in a double blind study that will be published. I'm not sure if science is no longer an acceptable authenticating results. I guess MFP cred is the gold standard.
And his n=1 is evidence of something? I assume the study has concluded, otherwise it doesn't sound very blind.
It doesn't sound like the study has anything to do with Paleo anyway. So I have no idea why you even mentioned it.0 -
Sigh. Do whatever freaking works for you. I know many people who personally feel better now than they ever have because of switching to a Paleo lifestyle. All you have to do is Google and you will see a score of people who are now ailment-free because of ditching grains, gluten, dairy, etc. You really think all these people are making it up? Sorry, I don't.
Aren't anecdotes awesome?!
Would you like my husband's oncologist at Mayo clinic to forward his PET scans? He's stage 4 inoperable, he had nothing to lose by participating in a Keto study to test the efficacy of glucose starvation on advanced stage tumors. CEA markers dropped form 189 to 11. I'm sorry this rustle your jimmies. But hey your internet posts = Medical degree.
Nah, but I could forward you the cases where that didn't work with people! But it's awesome your husband's condition appears to be improving! :flowerforyou:
Also, for the record, I don't care at all if someone does Paleo. Whatever. But I do care when anecdotes get turned into "Everyone else is wrong because *I* experienced it." Particularly when that type of thinking often lines up with other paths of thought, none of which ever changes for a person, no matter what evidence they see.
And, well, I was just taking a break from work.
Actually yes could you please provide peer reviewed double blind studies on stage 4 cancers and low carbohydrate. I mean since you are the authority on this subject.
Huh, but you made the claim? And as our lord and savior, Carl Sagan, once said: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."
I never made a claim of authority, either, but you did with that oncologist, yeah?0 -
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Actually yes could you please provide peer reviewed double blind studies on stage 4 cancers and low carbohydrate. I mean since you are the authority on this subject.
Oh now we're talking about low carb, not Paleo. Impressive how quickly you made that turn.
Paleo would qualify as low carb. At least from what I have seen it would fall under that umbrella.0 -
Sigh. Do whatever freaking works for you. I know many people who personally feel better now than they ever have because of switching to a Paleo lifestyle. All you have to do is Google and you will see a score of people who are now ailment-free because of ditching grains, gluten, dairy, etc. You really think all these people are making it up? Sorry, I don't.
Aren't anecdotes awesome?!
Would you like my husband's oncologist at Mayo clinic to forward his PET scans? He's stage 4 inoperable, he had nothing to lose by participating in a Keto study to test the efficacy of glucose starvation on advanced stage tumors. CEA markers dropped form 189 to 11. I'm sorry this rustle your jimmies. But hey your internet posts = Medical degree.
You don't know what "anecdotes" means, do you? Because you responded to a poster stating (sarcastically) that anecdotes don't prove anything with an anecdote.
No I know what an anecdote means. He is participating in a double blind study that will be published. I'm not sure if science is no longer an acceptable authenticating results. I guess MFP cred is the gold standard.
A double-blind study with other terminal patients?! How interesting! So, um, how do you know, exactly, what your husband is undergoing if it's double blind?
Ah, no matter! Further health upon your husband, and may Canadian hockey fall to their doom tomorrow. :drinker:0 -
People are really thinking cavemen had a shorter life expectancy due to their lack of rice?
And not the fact that there were no doctors, hospitals, basic medicines or any type of medical care, for anything from childbirth to infections to animal bites, falls and injuries?
Hmmmm...
/thread0 -
No I know what an anecdote means. He is participating in a double blind study that will be published. I'm not sure if science is no longer an acceptable authenticating results. I guess MFP cred is the gold standard.
Well if he's participating in a study that hasn't even been published yet you can't use that as proof of anything. And the third sentence doesn't even make sense so I don't know what to tell you there.
It means in MFP land posts equals authority, on any subject. It trumps everything. His is not the first trial that has been published, there have been others particularly regarding certain cancers such as breast, colon and I believe pancreatic, although I could be mistaken of the latter.0 -
There is actually quite a bit of science that is starting to be devoted to GI tract issues, nutrition, inflammation triggered by diet, etc. -- but it still is in its infancy for sure. If you want to actually read some of the studies or the science behind it, try Good Calories Bad Calories by Gary Taubes or Deep Nutrition by Catherine Shanahan. Or for free information, Mark Sisson does a pretty good job of it on marksdailyapple.com.
I switched to Paleo/Primal lifestyle last year and it's helped me immensely. I'm not sure if it's the lack of gluten or something else (lechtins, casein, etc.) or the low-ish carbs, but I feel much better on it and it ended up being something that my doctor highly recommended when I was recently diagnosed with Hashimotos and insulin resistance. This was after years of doctors telling me nothing was wrong -- just cut calories and exercise more -- I was eating/exercising with a 700+ daily calorie deficient to just maintain my weight.
If you're lucky enough to not have any issues like Hashi's, insulin resistance, PCOS, food sensitivities or allergies, you may not notice a big difference eating Paleo/Primal (though many still say they do) as you likely can tolerate most processed foods and modern grains. But, for those of us that can't and doctors haven't been really able to pinpoint why, they Paleo/Primal diet and lifestyle have literally been LIFESAVERS.
Scoff all you want, but there are too many people that are seeing significant changes. Unfortunately, there is big business behind the food pyramid -- from factory farms, to dairy, weight loss industry, etc. Science is catching up with books like those I described above that go through a lot of the scientific studies out there. But, it hasn't quite overthrown the big business of conventional wisdom yet.0 -
No I know what an anecdote means. He is participating in a double blind study that will be published. I'm not sure if science is no longer an acceptable authenticating results. I guess MFP cred is the gold standard.
Well if he's participating in a study that hasn't even been published yet you can't use that as proof of anything. And the third sentence doesn't even make sense so I don't know what to tell you there.
It means in MFP land posts equals authority, on any subject. It trumps everything. His is not the first trial that has been published, there have been others particularly regarding certain cancers such as breast, colon and I believe pancreatic, although I could be mistaken of the latter.
Low carb diets as a treatment for certain medical disorders makes sense.
We're not talking about "low carb."
We're talking about Paleo.0 -
Sigh. Do whatever freaking works for you. I know many people who personally feel better now than they ever have because of switching to a Paleo lifestyle. All you have to do is Google and you will see a score of people who are now ailment-free because of ditching grains, gluten, dairy, etc. You really think all these people are making it up? Sorry, I don't.
Aren't anecdotes awesome?!
Would you like my husband's oncologist at Mayo clinic to forward his PET scans? He's stage 4 inoperable, he had nothing to lose by participating in a Keto study to test the efficacy of glucose starvation on advanced stage tumors. CEA markers dropped form 189 to 11. I'm sorry this rustle your jimmies. But hey your internet posts = Medical degree.
You don't know what "anecdotes" means, do you? Because you responded to a poster stating (sarcastically) that anecdotes don't prove anything with an anecdote.
No I know what an anecdote means. He is participating in a double blind study that will be published. I'm not sure if science is no longer an acceptable authenticating results. I guess MFP cred is the gold standard.
A double-blind study with other terminal patients?! How interesting! So, um, how do you know, exactly, what your husband is undergoing if it's double blind?
Ah, no matter! Further health upon your husband, and may Canadian hockey fall to their doom tomorrow. :drinker:
No you are correct, it is not double blind, that a different nanosphere study he is looking into. This study is two groups one eating Keto and one eating the traditional food pyramid. When you are terminal, really it's not like it matters much, but he felt it might help future cancer patients. The acceptance and prescription of a Keto/low carb etc eating protocol for patients is very quickly gaining acceptance.0 -
This thread is now about keto and low carb diets for terminally ill cancer patients.0
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I have fibromyalgia and prior to starting eating the paleo way I was in constant pain and was so tired all the time. Last August while on holiday I had to see a doctor the pain in my neck was so severe I couldn't move and was literally sobbing. I have a high pain threshold I gave birth to twins with no pain relief but this was excruciating. I knew I couldn't continue to live like that. Within 2 weeks of going paleo I had no pain at all but if I eat any grains or dairy it comes right back. I wouldn't dream of being negative about your diet each to their own but for me this works so I will continue and I don't really care about hard evidence I just know it works for me.
If your diary is correct, you are not following the Paleo Diet. You are not eating low carb or high fat.0 -
This thread is now about keto and low carb diets for terminally ill cancer patients.
Oh I'm sorry. I realize I didn't follow proper protocol in knowing when it is acceptable to speak. How could I possibly commit such a faux paux.
I shall in the future pass all thought and post by you so that they may have your prior approval.0 -
I like these threads. What we do really know is that cavemen lead rough existences because they were constantly at war with the Sleestaks.0
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I will now exit the thread so that we may all bask in the omnipotence of his highness Johnny9000millino posts.0
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And for the folks out there, Paleo/Primal is not vegetarian. It generally tends to be high fat (but focused on the good omega3-6 balance -- like in almonds, grassfed/pastured beef, etc.), moderate protein (20-35%) and low-ish carbs. The carbs really can go either direction depending on what you're looking for. Some choose lower carbs to lose weight/reduce body fat. But, others aren't looking for that so their carbs are higher. Generally speaking, carbs come organic vegetables and fruits -- focusing on those with most nutrient value (tend to be colorful). They also tend to be low glycemic index, but this goes back to the carb issue on how much carbs you're looking fulfill. When you cut out grains and get carbs primarily through vegetables and occasional fruit, it takes quite a few them to add up, unless they're the starchy carbs (sweet potatoes, potatoes, etc.). Dairy goes both ways. Some strict Paleo people say no dairy. Some more permissive/Primal people say dairy is fine if you can tolerate the lactose/casein in it -- and opt for the organic, full fat versions (i.e. cream, cheese, butter, full fat yogurt rather than low fat or non fat milk)
Also, a general tenet of Primal philosophy (which is a little modified from Paleo) is that there is an 80/20 rule -- following it at least 80% of the time. You're not looking for perfection or zealotry, but realism. So, if you want to indulge on non-Paleo/Primal things on occasion, just try to limit it to 20% or less. This will also depend on how well you tolerate the non-Paelo/Primal stuff. Many, once they go full 80% tend to go nearly 100% simply because they feel so much better eating that way.0 -
I like these threads. What we do really know is that cavemen lead rough existences because they were constantly at war with the Sleestaks.
brutal life I tell 'ya...just brutal...
I pity the caveman life...truly0 -
Almonds are literally toxic unless they are processed - there is no meaningful definition of either "paleo" or "primal" that almonds fit.0
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I will now exit the thread so that we may all bask in the omnipotence of his highness Johnny9000millino posts.
hahaha didn't you know this guy knows everything apparently!!!!0 -
I wouldn't mind Paleo so much if you didn't have to spend twice as much on food or have to go slaughter the animals yourself because you can't find it in the grocery store... Or that they like to base their belief on the idea that agriculture is what is making us fat... depsite the fact that society has used and depended on agriculture for 10,000 years and only the last 30 is how long we have been battling obesity.0
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Mr_Knight -- it depends on how literal you want to be with Paleo or Primal. A lot of people that are more permissive and less literal, look to the underlying nutritional value - -and if it mimics the standards in Paleo/Primal, it's good enough.
Almonds wouldn't fit into a raw diet, but there are certain types of "processing" that is acceptable in Paleo/Primal -- like almonds, cold-pressed coconut oil, etc. We don't eat our meat raw either, but cooking isn't something we generally consider "processing" like you see in junk food, but more akin to what we see in almond "processing".0 -
K8 -- how we've been growing our agriculture in the last 50-100 years is drastically different than it was done 10,000 years ago. Even the bread your grandmother ate is significantly different than what we eat today due to a lot more modern manipulation of wheat. So "agriculture" from 10,000 years ago is significantly different than it is now.0
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Mr_Knight -- it depends on how literal you want to be with Paleo or Primal.
A term either has a "literal" definition, or it is essentially meaningless - which is precisely what the marketing hacks have achieved with the terms "Paleo" and "Primal".
The 20% rule is absolute genius - people can now literally eat anything they want and still claim to be on-plan.
Anyway, we're well past-peak on these particular fad diets now, I can't wait to see what lunacy replaces it...0
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