Paleo = dying young?

J72FIT

Studies I've seen reach different conclusions on this topic. I've seen a number of studies that concluded participants eating a low carb diet ended up losing more fat at the same number of calories than the control participants that were not eating low carb.

Links?

naughty - follow your own rules, yesterday you were asking for us to produce evidence to dispute your claims. You can't have it both ways - do your own research - most of the rest of us have.

That is flawed logic... it is on the person making the exaggerated claims to produce evidence.

fitandfortyish

A coworker planned a hiking trip for a work club that included some paleo dieters who wanted special foods. I told her she should have brought them some spears and loin cloths and let them really be paleo.

Bahahahahaha!! That would be a hike I'd join just to watch!!!!

jonnythan

Studies I've seen reach different conclusions on this topic. I've seen a number of studies that concluded participants eating a low carb diet ended up losing more fat at the same number of calories than the control participants that were not eating low carb.

Links?

I don't have them offhand, as it's been a few months since I read it. I do recall at least one of the papers postulating it was due to the body having to perform additional work when breaking down dietary fat for energy rather than carbohydrates, with the counterpoint there being it's not necessarily a good thing that your body has to do that additional work every day even if the resulting effect is increased caloric output. I'll see if I can dig at least one of those papers up sometime when I'm not at work.

I would appreciate if you could produce that. I'd like to see such experimental results. Maybe you could PM them to make sure I see it. Thanks.

QuietBloom

Primal Bull ****?

Anyway, did anyone answer me why I should eat Primal/Paleo because of Hashimoto's? I tried combing through the thread, but it's gotten massive.

Many thanks.

I did -- I'll see if I can go back and find the post.

Here was my response (on page 9 I think):

I think it's because a lot of people with auto-immune disorders have reactions to certain things -- gluten, casein, lactose and lechtins probably being the most notable -- which trigger the auto-immune reaction. Gluten is in wheat and other grains (and other items too), lactose and casein are in dairy products (less in full fat versions) and lechtins are in a bunch of things like lentils, peanuts, etc. The idea is that those with auto-immune issues are triggered by these things, whether it's Hashi's, Celiac, etc. More extreme cases like celiac can tolerate very little or no gluten. I don't think it's as extreme for people with Hashi's generally. So, if you don't eat these things, or reduce the amount you eat them, you don't end up with as many flare ups, running from hypo to hyper.

Some can tolerate the dairy and others can't -- it seems to be fine for me personally, but I don't really drink milk. The full-fat stuff like cheese, butter and cream is fine by me. Others with Hashi's notice issues with even that so they cut out all dairy too (which I think is inline with strict Paleo observers).

Also, if you have Hashi's you may also be insulin resistance (same if you have PCOS). It's something that they tend to see hand-in-hand, though there is a debate and which causes which. For that, Primal if it's lowish carb, also helps, especially if the carbs are low glycemic (i.e. not grains and certain fruits and veggies).

I can tell you personally, I feel much better on Primal/Paleo and have far less fatigue in general and even when I hit the swings, they're not as dramatic, which is HUGE for me. I also notice when I eat stuff with a lot of gluten in it -- have bread or a slice of pizza, my lymph glands swell on my neck, which is likely an indication of an auto-immune response and I get hit with the fatigue shortly thereafter (more extreme than just a sugar crash, though that is probably part of it too).

Not everyone with Hashi's feels better on Primal. But I do know a lot of people with Hashi's that do feel better on it. When I was eventually diagnosed with it, it was what my specialist recommended, but I'd already been eating that way for a while.

Thank you very kindly for finding that and posting it again for me. I have seen a few endocrinologists in my lifetime for my thyroid and also my pituitary, and none have mentioned a possible dietary component. The disease of Celiacs is caused by gluten intolerance, so naturally diet does play a huge role. I did try Primal for a couple of months and had a hard time adhering to it. I did not notice feeling better on it than I do on my normal IIFYM routine (indeed, since I am cardio intensive, I had difficulty with energy levels). Also I haven't had to have a medication adjustment in close to 15 years, so my Hashimoto's is holding steady despite my diet of eating everything.

gingersnap303

Regarding Hashimoto's. I was recently diagnosed. After seeing my doctor, my endocrinologist and a registered dietician, my diet is no where NEAR paleo. In fact, while it's whole foods, it's chock-full of grains and it's low fat. I started per my doctor on the Rice Diet and now I'm eating :grains, veggies, fruits and legumes with the occasional salmon. And hey, guess what? Three weeks in, I feel amazing and I'm losing at a normal pace...down 8lbs ( 4lbs lost the first week, 2lbs the next 2 weigh ins). You gotta do what works for you.

QuietBloom

AsaThorsWoman, I went back and reviewed your diary back to 1/1 as instructed. It appears that you started on the new year with a more or less Primal diet. WIthin a few weeks it started turning from Primal into a more... omnivorous sort of calorie-counting diet. By the standards of Primal, the entirety of February has been an abject disaster, starting with February 1 where over 2/3 of your daily intake came from cake, pizza, ice cream bars, and cookies. It's been off and on since the 1300 calories of beer on January 30 but more off than on.

This is a common trajectory for New Years' Resolutions. I'm encouraged, however, that you are still logging even though your diet is decidedly non-Primal.

Look at it this way. Look Monday thru Friday. The only non-primal things listed are my 900 freakin' calorie peice of cake Monday and some frozen yogurt Wednesday night.

I guess Saturday and Sunday don't count? Then again there's all this:

Wednesday 2/12:
Alcohol - Peppermint Schnapps, 4 oz 500 32 0 0 0 0
Anheuser-Busch - Budweiser, 36 floz 435 32 0 4 60 0
Taco Bell - Nachos Bell Grande, 308 g 760 85 39 19 1,320 13

Thursday 2/13:
Long John Silver's - Battered Fish, 1 piece 230 14 15 12 580 0
Long John Silver's - (Tartar Sauce), 1 oz (28g) 90 5 7 0 230 0
Wendy's - Jr Bacon Cheeseburger (From Wendys Website), 1 burger 390 26 22 20 870 2
Walmart Bakery - Chocolate Cupcake W/ Frosting, 1 cupcake 240 35 12 1 140 0

Friday 2/14:
Hershey's Kisses - Milk Chocolate (Per Piece), 2 Kiss 46 6 3 1 8 0
Butterfingers - Valentine Hearts Candy 5 Pieces, 1 pieces 40 6 2 0 8 0
Hershey's - Reese's Peanut Butter Filled Hearts, 1 pieces 42 5 3 1 15 0
Mcdonald's - Mcdouble (No Bun, No Ketchup), 2 Sandwich 460 6 34 36 1,060 2
Market Pantry Target - Mini Cupcake -- White Cake W/ White Frosting (Serving Size: 3 Cupcakes), 3 cupcakes 330 43 17 2 200 0
Mcdonald's - Mcdouble (No Bun, No Ketchup), 2 Sandwich 460 6 34 36 1,060 2
Mcdonald's - Chicken Mcnuggets (10 Piece) W/ Sweet 'n Sour Sauce, 10 Nuggets 5.7 oz (190 g) 520 42 30 22 1,050 2
Butterfinger - Valentine Heart, 1 piece 160 23 8 2 45 0
Pearson's - King Size Mint Patties, 0.5 PATTIE 85 18 2 1 45 0
Ghirardelli Squares - Milk Chocolate With Carmel Filling, 0 oz (1 square) 0 0 0 0 0 0
Elmer's Chocolate Candy - Assorted Chocolates, 3 pieces (34g) 140 25 5 1 20 1
Barefoot Wine Merlot - Wine, 5 ozs 120 5 0 1 2 0

Monday 2/17:
the Bakery at Walmart - White Cake With Buttercreme Icing, 0.18585000000000002 cake 80g 915 130 41 6 413 0


I'm not attacking you with this information. But, seriously.... your diet doesn't even approach paleo. Or primal.

Compared to this diary, I suspect that *you* are closer to "paleo/primal".

This is not even close to my diary. Pull the report from 1/1/14-current if you want to see it.

He pulled everyone of my cheats to mis-represent me.

He did say you did well in January, or did you miss that part?

is yogurt and pork rinds paleo/primal?

I don't recall caveman having access to Yoplait...

Yes, yogurt is very natural and great for your gut and pork rinds are pork skin and salt.

Both primal.

who knew...cavemen ate yogurt...you learn something new everday...

Perhaps they found a dead goat with fermented milk in her bag...?

lindsey1979

Compared to this diary, I suspect that *you* are closer to "paleo/primal".

This is not even close to my diary. Pull the report from 1/1/14-current if you want to see it.

He pulled everyone of my cheats to mis-represent me.

Trust me I don't believe a word that guy says!!!

Why not? He's given excellent advice a number of times in numerous threads, and calls people out on their BS.

I can't speak to his advice in this thread. But, from what I've seen, he's intellectually dishonest. He misrepresents and plays with semantic and touts them as being fact. Hard to have a legit discussion with someone that is intellectually dishonest.

Yeah, asking you for data to substantiate your claims is just plain ol dishonest. We should just take you at your word that you were eating a massive deficit and not losing weight instead of asking for the data to substantiate it.

Yeah, you should when the underlying data could be falsified just as easily. What's the point? If I were going to lie in the assertion, I'd lie in the underlying supporting documentation. It's just silly. And what would be the purpose of lying?

Especially when it's not a particularly unique experience for those that later find out that they have some underlying issue like I did - -whether it's insulin resistance, PCOS, Hashi's, etc. Go to the Hashis and PCOS threads on this very website and you'll find it not an uncommon story -- looking at such stories and going "wow, that sounds just like me" is what lead me to pushing doctors to finally get the right tests done and finding the correct diagnosis.

But, I'm sure they're all lying too...

tennisdude2004

Studies I've seen reach different conclusions on this topic. I've seen a number of studies that concluded participants eating a low carb diet ended up losing more fat at the same number of calories than the control participants that were not eating low carb.

Links?

naughty - follow your own rules, yesterday you were asking for us to produce evidence to dispute your claims. You can't have it both ways - do your own research - most of the rest of us have.

So yesterday I was asking someone to produce evidence..... and today I'm asking for someone to produce evidence.

Yeah I'm all over the place!

Lol, it was off the back of a comment from one of your other members claim the rules were you had to give evidence to support and it wasn't down to the person disputing to provide conflicting evidence.

Yesterday you wanted it the other way round, Sorry my subtle humour again (us damn Brits)

branflakes1980

Compared to this diary, I suspect that *you* are closer to "paleo/primal".

This is not even close to my diary. Pull the report from 1/1/14-current if you want to see it.

He pulled everyone of my cheats to mis-represent me.

Trust me I don't believe a word that guy says!!!

Why not? He's given excellent advice a number of times in numerous threads, and calls people out on their BS.

For the WIN :drinker:

edited to place my comment in the correct place.

tennisdude2004

AsaThorsWoman, I went back and reviewed your diary back to 1/1 as instructed. It appears that you started on the new year with a more or less Primal diet. WIthin a few weeks it started turning from Primal into a more... omnivorous sort of calorie-counting diet. By the standards of Primal, the entirety of February has been an abject disaster, starting with February 1 where over 2/3 of your daily intake came from cake, pizza, ice cream bars, and cookies. It's been off and on since the 1300 calories of beer on January 30 but more off than on.

This is a common trajectory for New Years' Resolutions. I'm encouraged, however, that you are still logging even though your diet is decidedly non-Primal.

Look at it this way. Look Monday thru Friday. The only non-primal things listed are my 900 freakin' calorie peice of cake Monday and some frozen yogurt Wednesday night.

I guess Saturday and Sunday don't count? Then again there's all this:

Wednesday 2/12:
Alcohol - Peppermint Schnapps, 4 oz 500 32 0 0 0 0
Anheuser-Busch - Budweiser, 36 floz 435 32 0 4 60 0
Taco Bell - Nachos Bell Grande, 308 g 760 85 39 19 1,320 13

Thursday 2/13:
Long John Silver's - Battered Fish, 1 piece 230 14 15 12 580 0
Long John Silver's - (Tartar Sauce), 1 oz (28g) 90 5 7 0 230 0
Wendy's - Jr Bacon Cheeseburger (From Wendys Website), 1 burger 390 26 22 20 870 2
Walmart Bakery - Chocolate Cupcake W/ Frosting, 1 cupcake 240 35 12 1 140 0

Friday 2/14:
Hershey's Kisses - Milk Chocolate (Per Piece), 2 Kiss 46 6 3 1 8 0
Butterfingers - Valentine Hearts Candy 5 Pieces, 1 pieces 40 6 2 0 8 0
Hershey's - Reese's Peanut Butter Filled Hearts, 1 pieces 42 5 3 1 15 0
Mcdonald's - Mcdouble (No Bun, No Ketchup), 2 Sandwich 460 6 34 36 1,060 2
Market Pantry Target - Mini Cupcake -- White Cake W/ White Frosting (Serving Size: 3 Cupcakes), 3 cupcakes 330 43 17 2 200 0
Mcdonald's - Mcdouble (No Bun, No Ketchup), 2 Sandwich 460 6 34 36 1,060 2
Mcdonald's - Chicken Mcnuggets (10 Piece) W/ Sweet 'n Sour Sauce, 10 Nuggets 5.7 oz (190 g) 520 42 30 22 1,050 2
Butterfinger - Valentine Heart, 1 piece 160 23 8 2 45 0
Pearson's - King Size Mint Patties, 0.5 PATTIE 85 18 2 1 45 0
Ghirardelli Squares - Milk Chocolate With Carmel Filling, 0 oz (1 square) 0 0 0 0 0 0
Elmer's Chocolate Candy - Assorted Chocolates, 3 pieces (34g) 140 25 5 1 20 1
Barefoot Wine Merlot - Wine, 5 ozs 120 5 0 1 2 0

Monday 2/17:
the Bakery at Walmart - White Cake With Buttercreme Icing, 0.18585000000000002 cake 80g 915 130 41 6 413 0


I'm not attacking you with this information. But, seriously.... your diet doesn't even approach paleo. Or primal.

Compared to this diary, I suspect that *you* are closer to "paleo/primal".

This is not even close to my diary. Pull the report from 1/1/14-current if you want to see it.

He pulled everyone of my cheats to mis-represent me.

He did say you did well in January, or did you miss that part?

is yogurt and pork rinds paleo/primal?

I don't recall caveman having access to Yoplait...

Yes, yogurt is very natural and great for your gut and pork rinds are pork skin and salt.

Both primal.

who knew...cavemen ate yogurt...you learn something new everday...

Perhaps they found a dead goat with fermented milk in her bag...?

I've already explained cavemen invented Yoplait - pay attention!

Ang108

It's not a fad for some. People do it because of diseases like Hashimoto's.

I was told by three specialists in three different countries that there is no diet on this planet that will improve a burnt out thyroid....the moment I started to believe that and agreed to take thyroid hormones I did a lot better.

If it's totally burnt out, yes, this is true. You'll need thyroid meds. But, if it's only partially affected, which it oftentimes is in Hashi's for years, then it can help out if you can help reduce the auto-immune response that triggers it. They don't seem to know what that is, but a primal/paleo diet seems to help people. They think it may be gluten, but could be other common culprits as well -- casein, lactose, lechtins -- or something else that is avoided in Primal/Paleo that hasn't been identified yet.

Whether you need thyroid meds for your Hashi's will depend on your individual T3 and T4 numbers.

I think even that differs from person to person. I found out that my extreme inflammatory response ( to mostly Lupus and RA now, because I lost my thyroid to cancer a few years back and of course now I take even higher doses of thyroid meds, because it's complete replacement. ) was mostly to processed sugar and almost all other forms of simple carbs. Apart from that I eat everything I like ( but it's whole foods, because that is what I grew up on and is what I like......no esoteric reasons at all for my choice of diet ) including lots of beans , legumes, home made yogurt and cheese and anything else I want as long as it is natural ( it does not have to be " organic " ....just fresh ).
I think people have to find out through trial and error what works for them personally. I also think they can share this, but need to stay away from blanket statements in regard to certain types of diet when it comes to individual health.

lindsey1979

Compared to this diary, I suspect that *you* are closer to "paleo/primal".

This is not even close to my diary. Pull the report from 1/1/14-current if you want to see it.

He pulled everyone of my cheats to mis-represent me.

Trust me I don't believe a word that guy says!!!

Why not? He's given excellent advice a number of times in numerous threads, and calls people out on their BS.

I can't speak to his advice in this thread. But, from what I've seen, he's intellectually dishonest. He misrepresents and plays with semantic and touts them as being fact. Hard to have a legit discussion with someone that is intellectually dishonest.

Well I can speak to his advice in this thread (and others) and while he may be a bit...um, dogged about his pursuits I've never seen any manner of dishonesty. He does seem to appreciate if people practice what they preach and he may go after semantics and small details like a dog after a bone (NTTAWWT) but it's because semantics and small details matter in discussions like this.

You can't expect a person to not nitpick at every detail when the small nuances are what mark the difference between a valid claim and something akin to nonsense.

Well, that's where I disagree with you. Sometimes the details are important and sometime they're not. The intellectually honest decipher the difference and don't pick on the useless details or make misrepresentations. I've been giving him the benefit of the doubt that he knows the difference and is intentionally being deceptive or dishonest. He could just be not that bright and not be able to tell the difference, but that's not the read I have on him. Because when he is called to the carpet on his truth twisting, he lets it go and stops defending the semantics and bs.

FlaxMilk

Like most things, I think there is a significant spectrum. Strict Paleo is far more restrictive than Primal or permissive Paleo (the latter both allow dairy if you tolerate it well). They essentially look for foods the mimic the caveman times profile, even if they are more modern -- like full fat yogurt or butter -- which also means that limit a lot of the additives, artificial stuff, etc. But Primal generally aims for an 80/20 balance at the very least -- some go for 95/5 or full 100/0 adherence. Many start 80/20 and later find themselves more like 95/5.

But, generally, it's about progress not perfection. Have those non-Primal/Paleo things on occasion, but really try to get 80% of your stuff from Primal/Paleo sources. Even more so if you're looking to lose weight/fat or manage a specific issue (insulin resistance, Hashi's, gluten sensitivity, etc.).

This explanation makes sense to me, if I think of it as a philosophy and not as a diet plan.

jonnythan

Yesterday you wanted it the other way round, Sorry my subtle humour again (us damn Brits)

When? Can you quote me and/or link to said post?

Iknowsaur

Oh my, this is still going on?

jonnythan

Compared to this diary, I suspect that *you* are closer to "paleo/primal".

This is not even close to my diary. Pull the report from 1/1/14-current if you want to see it.

He pulled everyone of my cheats to mis-represent me.

Trust me I don't believe a word that guy says!!!

Why not? He's given excellent advice a number of times in numerous threads, and calls people out on their BS.

I can't speak to his advice in this thread. But, from what I've seen, he's intellectually dishonest. He misrepresents and plays with semantic and touts them as being fact. Hard to have a legit discussion with someone that is intellectually dishonest.

Well I can speak to his advice in this thread (and others) and while he may be a bit...um, dogged about his pursuits I've never seen any manner of dishonesty. He does seem to appreciate if people practice what they preach and he may go after semantics and small details like a dog after a bone (NTTAWWT) but it's because semantics and small details matter in discussions like this.

You can't expect a person to not nitpick at every detail when the small nuances are what mark the difference between a valid claim and something akin to nonsense.

Well, that's where I disagree with you. Sometimes the details are important and sometime they're not. The intellectually honest decipher the difference and don't pick on the useless details or make misrepresentations. I've been giving him the benefit of the doubt that he knows the difference and is intentionally being deceptive or dishonest. He could just be not that bright and not be able to tell the difference, but that's not the read I have on him. Because when he is called to the carpet on his truth twisting, he lets it go and stops defending the semantics and bs.

I lost interest in your claims when you flat-out admitted you couldn't substantiate them with data or science.

lindsey1979

But I don't think the research supports this conclusion. It defies understanding to suggest that macronutrient percentages (within a reasonable, non-extreme range) materially affect the CO side of the CICO equation. Inflammation, water retention, other things that might lead to scale weight but not necessarily fat weight? Yeah, I might still be open to those possibilities...but macros materially affecting metabolism? Nope, I don't see it.

Also, I'd still like to know what makes a good carb "good" and a bad carb "bad". (And it had better be more than just fiber unless we're evaluating each of these foods in an unrealistic vacuum.)

Studies I've seen reach different conclusions on this topic. I've seen a number of studies that concluded participants eating a low carb diet ended up losing more fat at the same number of calories than the control participants that were not eating low carb. One theory I've seen floated around is that it's actually more work for your body to burn fat for energy than carbs, and so this inefficiency/extra work leads to additional calories out (and earlier study speculated on the order of 200-300 calories/day). I've also seen other studies where there was no significant weight loss delta between the two groups and they concluded there was no demonstrable metabolic advantage to a low carb diet.

So, I think there's at least the possibility that macros can affect CO in a significant way but there's no consensus on the subject from what I've seen. As for what's good and bad, I couldn't tell you.

I believe the low carb has to do with ketosis - -that your body is forced to break down ketones for energy since you're getting insufficient amount of glucose from dietary carbs. That requires the breakdown of fat and why low carb diets lose fat at higher rates. I think there is pretty definitive research out there at least on that metabolic pathway.

There is also others that deal with insulin resistance and how limiting the amount and type of carbs reduces insulin spikes, especially with those that are prone to them like those with insulin resistance. And keeping them more level ends up in weight reduction because you're not either (1) overeating due to the hunger signals provided by the increased insulin or (2) if not overeating, not getting hit with fatigue/cravings as you normally would with the increased insulin.

lindsey1979

Maybe if we just replaced the word "Paleo" with "Natural/Unprocessed Food" diet it would keep people from attacking the concept?

But then no one would follow it. You can't market a restrictive diet without a catchy name.

You're eating a restrictive diet! Everyone on this site it! Just because we're not doing it your way, why does that upset you so much.

Maybe it's hug time????

Don't follow. My diet has no restrictions on which foods I may eat.

No but you're restricted on how much of your amazing range of food you can eat so therefore it's a restrictive diet, any diet with boundaries are!

Don't try to be logical. He's not a fan of the logic.

I think you may be the one that is not a fan of the logic. Seriously, let me spell it out for ya. He is NOT against people eating healthily. He is however not a fan of people claiming things without providing facts. He chooses to not restrict things from his diet but still eats at a deficit and he has lost a bunch of weight. He is not saying that any of ANYONES ways of doing things are wrong, he is simply stating that as long as you eat at a deficit you will lose weight. He is absolutely correct unless of course you have a MEDICALLY DIAGNOSED CONDITION but I believe we talked about this before. Please go back and READ everything before replying. It will make things much easier on everyone. Thanks.

That's the whole point though. There are plenty of people that won't lose at a deficit and yet don't have a medically diagnosed condition YET -- just like was my problem for YEARS. It was only after pushing doctors for YEARS and showing them things like my food diary and eventually trying out a few specialists, that I finally got the tests I needed and the underlying medical condition was found/diagnosed. And there may be other conditions that we don't really know about yet which are causing these issues as well. But strangely, things like the Paleo diet help them -- you'll find tons of people that will testify to that, and I suspect they have undiagnosed medical issues, whether certain vitamin deficiencies (like D, iodine or magnesium), hormone imbalances (like insulin resistance, thyroid issues, adrenal issues), food allergies/sensitivities/intolerances (Celiac, gluten sensitivities, etc.) or autoimmune disease.

I could have gone another 10-15 years fighting the whole calories in and calories out thing and being endless frustrated. And 4 doctors would have said everything was fine. But, it wasn't. And the Primal/Paleo diet was literally the only thing that helped me prior to figuring out the underlying cause/issue -- which I only learned about later.

No, if someone is in a deficit they will lose weight, that's the way the universe works. What your talking about are metabolic dysfunctions that effect how the body burns it's fuel. People with these metabolic dysfunctions need to seek out medical intervention to help plan a course of action that helps them lose weight. PCOS, IR, MetS all respond well to lower carb, in the absenxe of exercise and weight loss....do all three and surprisingly enough they begin to lose weight with similar calorie consumption. Not magic.

Okay, if a deficit always works. How come you see so many people with those disease that eat at a deficit and don't lose, or eat at what should maintain results in gaining?

Oh, why? Because they're not metabolizing things as they should be. They're storing fat, when they should have the energy in the system for activity -- which is also why you see such people with awful cases of fatigue and sleeping issues. Some tend to eat more than they should because it's not metabolized correctly/efficiently. So stave off the fatigue, they have to eat more, which results in weight gain and obesity. You really should educate yourself more on metabolism before spouting off such things.

Yes, those people with "diseases" as you say should see a physician, but the majority of people AGAIN that say they eat at a deficit and don't lose weight do not have any disease.

You have NO idea if this is correct. I was told for 10+ years that I had no such disease. And yet, I did. If you're eating a deficit and not losing, something probably is off about you and that's why you need to see someone that knows about these things. Because there are legitimate reasons why you can not lose (or even gain) at a deficit.

The common response you get from people is exactly what I'm getting from people like you, Johnnny, etc. --- oh, you must be wrong/lying about your deficit -- prove it! where's the diary to prove it?!!

I think a lot of overweight people probably do have such underlying issues, but they've been told that they're wrong/lying for so long, they give up and just accept that lifestyle.