Paleo = dying young?

lindsey1979

Cavemen also drank untreated water, and hunted for their food daily, sucked marrow out of bones, and scavenged when they had to......................................................I'm betting no paleo person on here does that.

A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

Wow. And you're supposed to be a personal/fitness trainer. This may be one of the stupidest comments I've seen in a while. Has absolutely NOTHING to do with the nutritional plan WHATSOEVER. Way to be bring asinine to the party.

Ninerbuff doesn't need to prove anything to nayone and so far your contributions are meh. lol

No one needs to prove anything. I'm just asking for logical statements. Disagree all you want. But saying something totally nonsensical is stupid. Tomatoes are red. True, but who cares?

And I'm sure Ninerbuff is a big boy and can fight his own battles if he chooses to do so.

what did he say that was illogical?

He simply pointed out that a "paleo lifestyle" should involve all aspects of how said paleo people lived. Are you saying that cavemen drank treated water or had Aquafina?

C'mon. Seriously? Do you take everything in your life so literally?

Do you think the Paleo/Primal diet really means do everything a caveman did? Really? That's just intellectually dishonest, unless you have some condition like Aspergers where you can't differentiate between the two.

LOL now you are trying to acuse me of being mentally handicapped? When you resort to name calling it means you have lost the debate...

I simply pointed out that nothing he said was illogical...caveman drank untreated water = logical = true...

I believe the point is (I will let 49er speak for himself) is that maybe eating like a caveman did 100,000 years ago really does not matter...

First of all, I wasn't calling you a name. I'm saying if you had something like Asperger's there is a legitimate reason to not understand some of the underlying assumptions in this discussion as people with Aspergers often can't appreciate things like innuendo and tend to be far too literal in their language.

If you don't have something like Asperger's, then you're just being intellectually dishonest. You may think the semantics make you appear clever, but it highlights the lack of substance in your actual argument.

so because you think I do not understand your idiocy, then I somehow (might) have Asperger's...interesting..

No, I gave you the benefit of the doubt that you have intellectual integrity. Now, I know that not to be the case. And, you're a hypocrite.

interesting reasoning, I am a hypocrite how exactly?

I am not the one that said I was eating in a 700 deficit and not losing weight and then decided to leave out the caveat - for ten pages of this thread- that I have a medical condition ..

Hmmmm how ironic...

You're a hypocrite be you complained about name calling and then turned right around and did it yourself with the idiocy comment.

And I mentioned Hashi's and insulin resistance much earlier-- perhaps it was page 5 or 7. And it underlines my entire point -- is that for years I was undiagnosed and doctors just kept saying the same useless things you and Johnny are saying. And lo and behold there was an underlying issue, which Paleo and low carbish really helped with -- up until the diagonsis, it was the only thing that had helped somewhat.

And I reiterate AGAIN, I suspect that's probably a common experience for many people on Paleo/Primal. That they have an underlying issue that hasn't been diagnosed or is less extreme -- whether it's Hashi's, PCOS, Celiac, gluten or other food sensitivity (but not extreme enough to be an allergy or intolerance), an auto-immune issue, etc. And they feel like Sysiphus pushing that boulder up an endless hill.

Sure, there may be other treatments that may help once the underlying issue is identified, or it may be largely corrected by diet, and Paleo/Primal has been one of those things that has helped MANY with just these issues.

lindsey1979

Maybe if we just replaced the word "Paleo" with "Natural/Unprocessed Food" diet it would keep people from attacking the concept?

But then no one would follow it. You can't market a restrictive diet without a catchy name.

You're eating a restrictive diet! Everyone on this site it! Just because we're not doing it your way, why does that upset you so much.

Maybe it's hug time????

I absolutely agree. I'm not saying that Paleo/Primal is the ONLY path up the mountain, but it's ONE of the legitimate paths up the mountain. I don't understand why some are so invested in trying to tear it down.

Because it's unjustifiably restrictive for the vast majority of people and similar results can be had by just consuming more whole and minimal processed foods and/or reducing carbs. Is paleo unhealthy, hell no. I've researched this diet extensively over the last 4 or 5 years and I see no derogatory health events associated with it and when compared to a few healthier diet like the Med diet for example it has better glucose control and reduces TG's more efficiently and has more positive effects on lipid sub particle comparisons, HDL etc, it's squeaky healthy, but unless you haven't figured it out yet, most here are not referring to it's health properties.

Most are referring to it's biblical rise based on elimination of food groups that are not necessary and in the long run make it very difficult for adherence and long term success. And of course the irony as I see it is the sites that purpose to support the diet which doesn't actual resemble much of the anthropological data, but more of a designed platform that might offer good marketing and believability to then create a following and it probably wouldn't be as popular if the low carb diet wasn't being embraced as much as it is today. If someone is a carbaholic and a sugar concubine, then consume low carb.There's really no actual diet that comes close to representing the lifestyle of people 100,000 years ago......removing grain and veg oil and groking chin up bars is embarrassing if you ask me, especially if I wore the tee shirt. It's 100% marketing and getting bigger. imo

I guess I don't see it as restrictive at all. I eat tons of vegetables, some fruits, lots of types of meat (cow, pig, chicken, and other more unusual ones on occasion), tons of good fats, certain seeds, cheese, butter and cream. I have my beloved homemade vodka sauce over spaghetti squash -- love it. I don't do grains because I feel much better without them and just don't want them as a result. The only thing I probably wish i could have more of is ice cream. But that's about it.

lindsey1979

I told you that it was a 700+ daily deficit as an average -- that's data. Showing you further underlying data supporting that is not necessary unless you don't believe it.

Let me make it clear: I do not believe that you were eating an average 700+ calorie daily deficit and not losing weight.

That's at least honest. Believe it or not. I lived it, so I know it to be true. Talk to others that have hypothyroid or insulin resistance issues and you'll find it to be pretty darn common. In fact, you'll far more extreme examples than just 700+ average daily calorie deficit.

I believe in his original statement he said to provide him with said data in 2 people that did not have any diagnosed medical conditions. I am no doctor, however Hypothyroid or insulin resistance sound like medical conditions to me. No?

And I believe if you read some of my responses, I said I didn't now about that. But for years, I could have been one of those people because for YEARS, I was undiagnosed, which is what I suspect is the case for a lot of people who have difficulty managing their weight and yet their calories in and out seem to be solid.

MagJam2004

I really hope this thread lasts until I can get home and read it all.

branflakes1980

Maybe if we just replaced the word "Paleo" with "Natural/Unprocessed Food" diet it would keep people from attacking the concept?

But then no one would follow it. You can't market a restrictive diet without a catchy name.

You're eating a restrictive diet! Everyone on this site it! Just because we're not doing it your way, why does that upset you so much.

Maybe it's hug time????

Don't follow. My diet has no restrictions on which foods I may eat.

No but you're restricted on how much of your amazing range of food you can eat so therefore it's a restrictive diet, any diet with boundaries are!

Don't try to be logical. He's not a fan of the logic.

I think you may be the one that is not a fan of the logic. Seriously, let me spell it out for ya. He is NOT against people eating healthily. He is however not a fan of people claiming things without providing facts. He chooses to not restrict things from his diet but still eats at a deficit and he has lost a bunch of weight. He is not saying that any of ANYONES ways of doing things are wrong, he is simply stating that as long as you eat at a deficit you will lose weight. He is absolutely correct unless of course you have a MEDICALLY DIAGNOSED CONDITION but I believe we talked about this before. Please go back and READ everything before replying. It will make things much easier on everyone. Thanks.

tennisdude2004

Maybe if we just replaced the word "Paleo" with "Natural/Unprocessed Food" diet it would keep people from attacking the concept?

But then no one would follow it. You can't market a restrictive diet without a catchy name.

You're eating a restrictive diet! Everyone on this site it! Just because we're not doing it your way, why does that upset you so much.

Maybe it's hug time????

I absolutely agree. I'm not saying that Paleo/Primal is the ONLY path up the mountain, but it's ONE of the legitimate paths up the mountain. I don't understand why some are so invested in trying to tear it down.

Because it's unjustifiably restrictive for the vast majority of people and similar results can be had by just consuming more whole and minimal processed foods and/or reducing carbs. Is paleo unhealthy, hell no. I've researched this diet extensively over the last 4 or 5 years and I see no derogatory health events associated with it and when compared to a few healthier diet like the Med diet for example it has better glucose control and reduces TG's more efficiently and has more positive effects on lipid sub particle comparisons, HDL etc, it's squeaky healthy, but unless you haven't figured it out yet, most here are not referring to it's health properties.

Most are referring to it's biblical rise based on elimination of food groups that are not necessary and in the long run make it very difficult for adherence and long term success. And of course the irony as I see it is the sites that purpose to support the diet which doesn't actual resemble much of the anthropological data, but more of a designed platform that might offer good marketing and believability to then create a following and it probably wouldn't be as popular if the low carb diet wasn't being embarrassed as much as it is today. If someone is a carbaholic and a sugar concubine, then consume low carb.There's really no actual diet that comes close to representing the lifestyle of people 100,000 years ago......removing grain and veg oil and groking chin up bars is embarrassing if you ask me, especially if I wore the tee shirt. It's 100% marketing and getting bigger. imo

Now, now Neaderthin you admitted the other day you've never done the diet. So how can you comment on how restrictive it is.

Okay pop quiz - what essential food can you not eat on a primal diet?

lol, you got me there. My primal friends just hang around my table a lot looking for left over pizza crusts so I just assumed they wanted some.......i told them I wouldn't tell anyone too, but I still didn't give them any. :happy:

I thought about eating pizza 3 nights ago, then remembered how dehydrated it made me feel I the middle of the night, so I had a big bowl of saturated Rich chilli - finished off with chocolate and a lovely glass of Merlot.

As a wine guzzling carnivore I was in heaven.

neanderthin

I thought about eating pizza 3 nights ago, then remembered how dehydrated it made me feel I the middle of the night, so I had a big bowl of saturated Rich chilli - finished off with chocolate and a lovely glass of Merlot.

As a wine guzzling carnivore I was in heaven.

Wine dehydrates me without fail and I live in wine country and drink it all the time. I have to remember to drink water during my wine guzzling episodes. I made duck confit poutine, again, I'm on a roll and got lots of duck. Oh, and merlot, meh...lol. just kidding. The area where I live is especially good for pinot, so that's what I've been drinking, and liking it.

tennisdude2004

Maybe if we just replaced the word "Paleo" with "Natural/Unprocessed Food" diet it would keep people from attacking the concept?

But then no one would follow it. You can't market a restrictive diet without a catchy name.

You're eating a restrictive diet! Everyone on this site it! Just because we're not doing it your way, why does that upset you so much.

Maybe it's hug time????

Don't follow. My diet has no restrictions on which foods I may eat.

No but you're restricted on how much of your amazing range of food you can eat so therefore it's a restrictive diet, any diet with boundaries are!

Don't try to be logical. He's not a fan of the logic.

I think you may be the one that is not a fan of the logic. Seriously, let me spell it out for ya. He is NOT against people eating healthily. He is however not a fan of people claiming things without providing facts. He chooses to not restrict things from his diet but still eats at a deficit and he has lost a bunch of weight. He is not saying that any of ANYONES ways of doing things are wrong, he is simply stating that as long as you eat at a deficit you will lose weight. He is absolutely correct unless of course you have a MEDICALLY DIAGNOSED CONDITION but I believe we talked about this before. Please go back and READ everything before replying. It will make things much easier on everyone. Thanks.

Okay by your very argument I now understand that primal is not a restrictive diet, restriction would imply you cannot eat something you want to eat. Once you're eating primal (and I suppose full blown paleo) you don't fancy food with doesn't have nutrition value to the levels you want, so therefore on primal you can eat what you want!

Basically you lose your addition to nutritionally deficient food.

Cool????

rml_16

I thought about eating pizza 3 nights ago, then remembered how dehydrated it made me feel

It isn't the pizza itself, it's the sodium. A steak from a chain restaurant would leave me feeling dehydrated, as well. I do not feel dehydrated if I eat pizza I make myself with no added sodium.

But I'll deal with a night of thirst every once in a while if it means I can enjoy Marco's Pizza with garlic butter-washed crust because it's good.

tennisdude2004

I thought about eating pizza 3 nights ago, then remembered how dehydrated it made me feel I the middle of the night, so I had a big bowl of saturated Rich chilli - finished off with chocolate and a lovely glass of Merlot.

As a wine guzzling carnivore I was in heaven.

Wine dehydrates me without fail and I live in wine country and drink it all the time. I have to remember to drink water during my wine guzzling episodes. I made duck confit poutine, again, I'm on a roll and got lots of duck. Oh, and merlot, meh...lol. just kidding. The area where I live is especially good for pinot, so that's what I've been drinking, and liking it.

Yeah it dehydrates me too, imagine the double whammy when I'm adding a pizza!

Mmmm Pinot!????????

tennisdude2004

I thought about eating pizza 3 nights ago, then remembered how dehydrated it made me feel

It isn't the pizza itself, it's the sodium. A steak from a chain restaurant would leave me feeling dehydrated, as well. I do not feel dehydrated if I eat pizza I make myself with no added sodium.

But I'll deal with a night of thirst every once in a while if it means I can enjoy Marco's Pizza with garlic butter-washed crust because it's good.

What sauce base tomato or BBQ? For me it's always been.a mighty meaty ( the carnivore in me).

dayone987

Maybe if we just replaced the word "Paleo" with "Natural/Unprocessed Food" diet it would keep people from attacking the concept?

But then no one would follow it. You can't market a restrictive diet without a catchy name.

You're eating a restrictive diet! Everyone on this site it! Just because we're not doing it your way, why does that upset you so much.

Maybe it's hug time????

Don't follow. My diet has no restrictions on which foods I may eat.

No but you're restricted on how much of your amazing range of food you can eat so therefore it's a restrictive diet, any diet with boundaries are!

Don't try to be logical. He's not a fan of the logic.

I think you may be the one that is not a fan of the logic. Seriously, let me spell it out for ya. He is NOT against people eating healthily. He is however not a fan of people claiming things without providing facts. He chooses to not restrict things from his diet but still eats at a deficit and he has lost a bunch of weight. He is not saying that any of ANYONES ways of doing things are wrong, he is simply stating that as long as you eat at a deficit you will lose weight. He is absolutely correct unless of course you have a MEDICALLY DIAGNOSED CONDITION but I believe we talked about this before. Please go back and READ everything before replying. It will make things much easier on everyone. Thanks.

Okay by your very argument I now understand that primal is not a restrictive diet, restriction would imply you cannot eat something you want to eat. Once you're eating primal (and I suppose full blown paleo) you don't fancy food with doesn't have nutrition value to the levels you want, so therefore on primal you can eat what you want!

Basically you lose your addition to nutritionally deficient food.

Cool????

So the poster that is Primal/Paleo and was following the diet 5/95% previously, but now eats Walmart cake and burgers, why would she start eating 20/80 (according to her) if she had lost her addiction to "nutritionally deficit " food?

It really seems that she found Primal/Paleo too restrictive and now eats more IIFYM.

laciehelfert

Wasn't the Paleo diet just rated the worst diet?

It was rated the worst because it is a lot of work as far as preparation goes. It also is really expensive to eat farm fed meat, etc. Not because it was unhealthy, more because it is a lot of upkeep.

jonnythan

AsaThorsWoman, I went back and reviewed your diary back to 1/1 as instructed. It appears that you started on the new year with a more or less Primal diet. WIthin a few weeks it started turning from Primal into a more... omnivorous sort of calorie-counting diet. By the standards of Primal, the entirety of February has been an abject disaster, starting with February 1 where over 2/3 of your daily intake came from cake, pizza, ice cream bars, and cookies. It's been off and on since the 1300 calories of beer on January 30 but more off than on.

This is a common trajectory for New Years' Resolutions. I'm encouraged, however, that you are still logging even though your diet is decidedly non-Primal.

rml_16

I thought about eating pizza 3 nights ago, then remembered how dehydrated it made me feel

It isn't the pizza itself, it's the sodium. A steak from a chain restaurant would leave me feeling dehydrated, as well. I do not feel dehydrated if I eat pizza I make myself with no added sodium.

But I'll deal with a night of thirst every once in a while if it means I can enjoy Marco's Pizza with garlic butter-washed crust because it's good.

What sauce base tomato or BBQ? For me it's always been.a mighty meaty ( the carnivore in me).

Huh?

tennisdude2004

Maybe if we just replaced the word "Paleo" with "Natural/Unprocessed Food" diet it would keep people from attacking the concept?

But then no one would follow it. You can't market a restrictive diet without a catchy name.

You're eating a restrictive diet! Everyone on this site it! Just because we're not doing it your way, why does that upset you so much.

Maybe it's hug time????

Don't follow. My diet has no restrictions on which foods I may eat.

No but you're restricted on how much of your amazing range of food you can eat so therefore it's a restrictive diet, any diet with boundaries are!

Don't try to be logical. He's not a fan of the logic.

I think you may be the one that is not a fan of the logic. Seriously, let me spell it out for ya. He is NOT against people eating healthily. He is however not a fan of people claiming things without providing facts. He chooses to not restrict things from his diet but still eats at a deficit and he has lost a bunch of weight. He is not saying that any of ANYONES ways of doing things are wrong, he is simply stating that as long as you eat at a deficit you will lose weight. He is absolutely correct unless of course you have a MEDICALLY DIAGNOSED CONDITION but I believe we talked about this before. Please go back and READ everything before replying. It will make things much easier on everyone. Thanks.

Okay by your very argument I now understand that primal is not a restrictive diet, restriction would imply you cannot eat something you want to eat. Once you're eating primal (and I suppose full blown paleo) you don't fancy food with doesn't have nutrition value to the levels you want, so therefore on primal you can eat what you want!

Basically you lose your addition to nutritionally deficient food.

Cool????

So the poster that is Primal/Paleo and was following the diet 5/95% previously, but now eats Walmart cake and burgers, why would she start eating 20/80 (according to her) if she had lost her addiction to "nutritionally deficit " food?

It really seems that she found Primal/Paleo too restrictive and now eats more IIFYM.

Just like everybody recovering you can sometime fall off the wagon (I'm not saying that's the case) I can only really talk for myself.

So tell me what nutritionally valuable food can you not eat on primal.

You seem to know a lot about the diet.

tennisdude2004

I thought about eating pizza 3 nights ago, then remembered how dehydrated it made me feel

It isn't the pizza itself, it's the sodium. A steak from a chain restaurant would leave me feeling dehydrated, as well. I do not feel dehydrated if I eat pizza I make myself with no added sodium.

But I'll deal with a night of thirst every once in a while if it means I can enjoy Marco's Pizza with garlic butter-washed crust because it's good.

What sauce base tomato or BBQ? For me it's always been.a mighty meaty ( the carnivore in me).

Huh?

On your Marco pizza - do you have tomato as the base or BBQ?

branflakes1980

I told you that it was a 700+ daily deficit as an average -- that's data. Showing you further underlying data supporting that is not necessary unless you don't believe it.

Let me make it clear: I do not believe that you were eating an average 700+ calorie daily deficit and not losing weight.

That's at least honest. Believe it or not. I lived it, so I know it to be true. Talk to others that have hypothyroid or insulin resistance issues and you'll find it to be pretty darn common. In fact, you'll far more extreme examples than just 700+ average daily calorie deficit.

I believe in his original statement he said to provide him with said data in 2 people that did not have any diagnosed medical conditions. I am no doctor, however Hypothyroid or insulin resistance sound like medical conditions to me. No?

And I believe if you read some of my responses, I said I didn't now about that. But for years, I could have been one of those people because for YEARS, I was undiagnosed, which is what I suspect is the case for a lot of people who have difficulty managing their weight and yet their calories in and out seem to be solid.

Well then why would you even respond to it? He asked to Prove that eating pizza and fast food does not result in the same amount of weight loss as someone who eats the "paleo or Primal" way at the same calorie allotance (THAT HAS NO MEDICAL CONDITIONS) What he asked for was pretty specific, you responding helps nothing, nor does it prove anything except that you like to argue. No?

Mr_Knight

So tell me what nutritionally valuable food can you not eat on primal.

That's just it - if "Primal" means "eat whatever you want a quarter of the time", then there is no food, good or bad, that is off limits. Which means "Primal", defined in that way, is a meaningless concept.

Now, if you want to talk "Primal" the way a vegetarian talks "vegetarian", then there is a conversation to be had, because the label will actually mean something.

But if we're staying in 80/20 land...it doesn't mean a thing, and there's nothing really to talk about.

rml_16

Just like everybody recovering you can sometime fall off the wagon (I'm not saying that's the case) I can only really talk for myself.

But if you are no longer addicted, there is no wagon from which to fall. You simply stop craving it.

Since I went vegetarian (for moral reasons) I have completely stopped craving any food. I still eat foods I enjoy, but I never feel any kind of urge towards something specific and HAVE TO HAVE IT. I used to get that way.

So it seems to me that being vegetarian is a far better plan for kicking an "addiction" to certain foods than primal/paleo is.

And I never "slip" and eat meat. I haven't had it in nearly five years.