Paleo = dying young?

lindsey1979

Acg67--

I don't think it's demonizing, it's taking a reasoned position. If you read more of the science behind it, perhaps you'd understand it. But, since you haven't, I suppose it's easier to just scoff at that which you don't understand.

I'm familiar with the science behind it or should we say lackthereof. Since we're jumping to conclusions, I'm going to say I've done much more research on the Paleo diet than you have. Hey remember that study that controlled cals and macros and one group ate a paleo diet and the other ate evil non paleo and paleo foods and the paleo diet group had much better blood markers of health, weight loss and fat loss? Oh yeah, that doesn't exist

Oh, really? Have you read either Deep Nutrition or Good Calories Bad Calories, or any of the studies cited therein? Oh, and what is your background to evaluate those studies? I have a science degree from one of the top research universities in the world. I've read quite a bit about it -- enough so, that I was willing to give it a try myself.

The research is in its infancy, but it is increasing. Where is your counter? Other than just conclusory statements...

I have read GCBC and Wheat Belly and Grain Brain and a a few other pseudoscience books. Hey remember when Taubes completely made up most of the books he wrote? Or Dr Davis totally made up conclusions and cited studies that said the exact opposite of what he was saying? Or how about when Cordain was anti saturated fat till all the other paleo and low carb gurus jumped on him to switch his stance? Or when Cordain purposely left out mostly plant based diet hunter gatherers in his Paleolithic diet recreation?

I also have a science degree

What counter?

So what is the counter -- that you just don't believe some of the underlying studies? Or because some made false claims or linked bad research, that it all gets thrown out the window? Do the proposed physiological theories just not make sense to you? I can't say with certainty that they're correct, but they do look plausible.

And there are a lot of people that have found relief and excellent results through their personal experience. They may be linking the wrong things, sure, but do you think it's really all coincidental and/or anecdotal?

It's not that I don't believe the underlying studies, they are cherry picked to fit a hypothesis. Which by the way is the exact thing Taubes criticized others for. Taubes found a study that showed the obese at as much or less than the lean and then said well it can't be about calories then, it has to be something else and pointed the finger at carbs and insulin. But as we know that study was based off self reported intake and we know how accurate that is, particularly when dealing with the obese.

It looks plausible that carbs and only carbs cause insulin secretion as Taubes theorizes? Or that obesity causes overeating and not the other way around as Taubes also theorizes? Gooby pls

I wouldn't go as far to say that only carbs causes insulin secretion as the endrocrine system is fairly complex and we're still learning about the various interactions with glands, organs and organ systems. But, there is a notable increase in insulin secretion after ingesting carbs, which is especially important for those with insulin regulation and metabolism problems -- whether it's diabetes, insulin resistance, metabolic syndrome, etc. And we do know that people (at least in the US) are eating far more carbs in the forms of processed grains and sugar (or their derivatives) compared with even 50-100 years ago and that we have a much higher incidence of obesity through the nation. Could that be just a coincidence? Seems unlikely, even if we aren't sure of the exact mechanism(s).

lindsey1979

How I eat is probably loosely considered paleo. I use butter which I believe is a big no no for them and I tolerate white potatoes just fine and have been eating them a bit (sweet potatoes are a big no! Instant pain). I'm doing it because I have terrible IBS that has only been helped by eating a careful diet. As far as diets go I do not think Paleo is worthy of all the flack it gets.

Grains don't work for me and I imagine the same is true for many others. Whether it is recent changes that have been done to our wheat supply or something else, I don't know. In my opinion if you have health problems that might be helped by diet change, give it a try. Paleo or paleo-ish diets do not mean you need to eat nothing but red, fatty meats. You can eat veggies, fruit and lean meats exclusively if you want.

Actually butter is totally fine in Primal (not sure about all Paleo variations as some strict Paleo says no dairy whatsoever) -- just look for pasture-raised or grass-fed butter like Kerrygold.

jofjltncb6

How I eat is probably loosely considered paleo. I use butter which I believe is a big no no for them and I tolerate white potatoes just fine and have been eating them a bit (sweet potatoes are a big no! Instant pain). I'm doing it because I have terrible IBS that has only been helped by eating a careful diet. As far as diets go I do not think Paleo is worthy of all the flack it gets.

Grains don't work for me and I imagine the same is true for many others. Whether it is recent changes that have been done to our wheat supply or something else, I don't know. In my opinion if you have health problems that might be helped by diet change, give it a try. Paleo or paleo-ish diets do not mean you need to eat nothing but red, fatty meats. You can eat veggies, fruit and lean meats exclusively if you want.

Actually butter is totally fine in Primal (not sure about all Paleo variations as some strict Paleo says no dairy whatsoever) -- just look for pasture-raised or grass-fed butter like Kerrygold.

One of the things that carried over for me beyond 2012 is Kerrygold butter...

...because it is delicious.

rml_16

I wouldn't mind Paleo so much if you didn't have to spend twice as much on food or have to go slaughter the animals yourself because you can't find it in the grocery store... Or that they like to base their belief on the idea that agriculture is what is making us fat... depsite the fact that society has used and depended on agriculture for 10,000 years and only the last 30 is how long we have been battling obesity.

Coinciding with PE and recess disappearing from schools, parents not allowing their children to just go outside and play all day, the Internet and more time spent in front of video games.

But it must be the wheat. ;-)

jonnythan

I wouldn't mind Paleo so much if you didn't have to spend twice as much on food or have to go slaughter the animals yourself because you can't find it in the grocery store... Or that they like to base their belief on the idea that agriculture is what is making us fat... depsite the fact that society has used and depended on agriculture for 10,000 years and only the last 30 is how long we have been battling obesity.

Coinciding with PE and recess disappearing from schools, parents not allowing their children to just go outside and play all day, the Internet and more time spent in front of video games.

But it must be the wheat. ;-)

It has nothing to do with increasingly sedentary jobs and lifestyles and greater availability and decreasing price of high-calorie foods.

It's just that people stopped eating Paleo since 1980.

ndj1979

How I eat is probably loosely considered paleo. I use butter which I believe is a big no no for them and I tolerate white potatoes just fine and have been eating them a bit (sweet potatoes are a big no! Instant pain). I'm doing it because I have terrible IBS that has only been helped by eating a careful diet. As far as diets go I do not think Paleo is worthy of all the flack it gets.

Grains don't work for me and I imagine the same is true for many others. Whether it is recent changes that have been done to our wheat supply or something else, I don't know. In my opinion if you have health problems that might be helped by diet change, give it a try. Paleo or paleo-ish diets do not mean you need to eat nothing but red, fatty meats. You can eat veggies, fruit and lean meats exclusively if you want.

Actually butter is totally fine in Primal (not sure about all Paleo variations as some strict Paleo says no dairy whatsoever) -- just look for pasture-raised or grass-fed butter like Kerrygold.

LOL because we all know cavemen had butter churns in their caves….

J72FIT

Acg67--

I don't think it's demonizing, it's taking a reasoned position. If you read more of the science behind it, perhaps you'd understand it. But, since you haven't, I suppose it's easier to just scoff at that which you don't understand.

I'm familiar with the science behind it or should we say lackthereof. Since we're jumping to conclusions, I'm going to say I've done much more research on the Paleo diet than you have. Hey remember that study that controlled cals and macros and one group ate a paleo diet and the other ate evil non paleo and paleo foods and the paleo diet group had much better blood markers of health, weight loss and fat loss? Oh yeah, that doesn't exist

Oh, really? Have you read either Deep Nutrition or Good Calories Bad Calories, or any of the studies cited therein? Oh, and what is your background to evaluate those studies? I have a science degree from one of the top research universities in the world. I've read quite a bit about it -- enough so, that I was willing to give it a try myself.

The research is in its infancy, but it is increasing. Where is your counter? Other than just conclusory statements...

I have read GCBC and Wheat Belly and Grain Brain and a a few other pseudoscience books. Hey remember when Taubes completely made up most of the books he wrote? Or Dr Davis totally made up conclusions and cited studies that said the exact opposite of what he was saying? Or how about when Cordain was anti saturated fat till all the other paleo and low carb gurus jumped on him to switch his stance? Or when Cordain purposely left out mostly plant based diet hunter gatherers in his Paleolithic diet recreation?

I also have a science degree

What counter?

So what is the counter -- that you just don't believe some of the underlying studies? Or because some made false claims or linked bad research, that it all gets thrown out the window? Do the proposed physiological theories just not make sense to you? I can't say with certainty that they're correct, but they do look plausible.

And there are a lot of people that have found relief and excellent results through their personal experience. They may be linking the wrong things, sure, but do you think it's really all coincidental and/or anecdotal?

It's not that I don't believe the underlying studies, they are cherry picked to fit a hypothesis. Which by the way is the exact thing Taubes criticized others for. Taubes found a study that showed the obese at as much or less than the lean and then said well it can't be about calories then, it has to be something else and pointed the finger at carbs and insulin. But as we know that study was based off self reported intake and we know how accurate that is, particularly when dealing with the obese.

It looks plausible that carbs and only carbs cause insulin secretion as Taubes theorizes? Or that obesity causes overeating and not the other way around as Taubes also theorizes? Gooby pls

I wouldn't go as far to say that only carbs causes insulin secretion as the endrocrine system is fairly complex and we're still learning about the various interactions with glands, organs and organ systems. But, there is a notable increase in insulin secretion after ingesting carbs, which is especially important for those with insulin regulation and metabolism problems -- whether it's diabetes, insulin resistance, metabolic syndrome, etc. And we do know that people (at least in the US) are eating far more carbs in the forms of processed grains and sugar (or their derivatives) compared with even 50-100 years ago and that we have a much higher incidence of obesity through the nation. Could that be just a coincidence? Seems unlikely, even if we aren't sure of the exact mechanism(s).

IMO, carbs go hand in hand with activity level. Carbs, more or less are just an energy nutrient. If your are active (which you should be) your carb needs increase. Activity also makes you insulin sensitive, which IMO, negates the issues with carbs raising insulin. Now if you are sedentary and or overweight, you probably should not go to town on carbs. Get the majority of your carbs form fruits and vegetables–sprinkle in some grains, starches and sweets for variety and pleasure.

fittoday14

Eat like the cave men huh? Conflicted I Be!

Some say its healthy cause you leave out all the grains that were not a part of that diet, but some believe cavemen didnt live long because of all the high fatty meats they ate caused early deaths because of the cholesterol.

I think it be another fad. Look at Atkins....sure it helped, but was it a healthy life style change? Leaning more towards NO!

Everything in moderation.

refuseresist

i agree with this

yawn

tnemmer

Here are some possible sources of that quote. lol

http://quoteinvestigator.com/2013/01/31/live-fast/

tnemmer

"I want to live hard, die young, and have a great looking corpse"

-I have no idea, and it probably isn't even an accurate quote anyway.

Here is a possible source for that quote! lol

http://quoteinvestigator.com/2013/01/31/live-fast/

CrusherKun

When I did a full year of strict paleo in 2012, I felt great. Lots of energy, good body composition, put on 20 pounds while maintaining BF% by eating at a surplus.


And in 2013, when I ate whatever I wanted (while still hitting my macros as in reaching my protein and fat targets), I felt great. Lots of energy, good body composition, made decent progress in the gym and on the trail.


I do keep trying to add in more of the nutrient-dense foods into my diet (and especially now since I'm early in a cut).


Conclusion? There is none. I just wanted in this thread.

HAHAHA!!! I appreciate the honesty.

I have to ask though. What did your lab results look like in regards to cholesterol and other tests? Just curious!

AsaThorsWoman

It's amazing how many people care how others cut calories, so much so they have to make a completely new thread about it.

If people want to cut out dairy, then go right ahead. If people want to eat low carb, then go ahead, If people want to eat their calories consuming only cabbage soup, be my guest. Only eating McDonald's? More power to you.

Not sure why you think it's unhealthy, but don't throw stones if you live in a glass house.

Thank you.

Cameron_1969

I ate a mammoth steak just the other day. . I killed it with a saber-toothed tiger claw. .Burned 1200 calories in the process too. .so yeah. . Paleo works well for me.

AsaThorsWoman

I will now exit the thread so that we may all bask in the omnipotence of his highness Johnny9000millino posts.

I'm really starting to think this guy has got to be a marketing exec, advertising person, some how tied in with business or politics of this fast food.

I've never seen someone so hostily tell people they should be eating Big Mac's and Chalupa's!

It's screaming hidden agenda.

Dude, if you want to eat fast food more power to you. No one here really cares either way and we all want people to find what works for them.

But you need to understand the fast food diet makes some other people terribly sick.

Eating fast food just once in awhile makes my stomach hurt.

It made me sick, it made previous posters sick.

If it works for you that's great!

But please stop trying to push your Taco Bell and McDonald's on others!

:explode:

ninerbuff

Cavemen also drank untreated water, and hunted for their food daily, sucked marrow out of bones, and scavenged when they had to......................................................I'm betting no paleo person on here does that.

A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

Carnivor0us

Cavemen also drank untreated water, and hunted for their food daily, sucked marrow out of bones, and scavenged when they had to......................................................I'm betting no paleo person on here does that.

A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

I would if I didn't have a car payment.

kw85296

If longevity is our goal maybe we should try to figure out what they ate in early Bible times (like the first part of the book of Genesis). Most of them lived to be 800/900 years old.

jonnythan

I've never seen someone so hostily tell people they should be eating Big Mac's and Chalupa's!

You should only eat them if you want to eat them. If you don't want to eat them you shouldn't eat them.

My advice is that no one should eat any particular food, nor should anyone NOT eat any particular food.

Incredibly complicated right?

Dude, if you want to eat fast food more power to you. No one here really cares either way

Every day on this forum people tell me that eating this food will make me sick, make me fat, give me heart disease, wreck my insides, give me cancer, etc etc. So clearly people really do care either way.

But you need to understand the fast food diet makes some other people terribly sick.

No idea what "the fast food diet" is. And if any particular food makes someone sick, they shouldn't eat it.

Shocker!

But please stop trying to push your Taco Bell and McDonald's on others!

:explode:

I've never, once, ever told someone who doesn't want to eat Taco Bell that they should eat Taco Bell. Not once, ever. I have never, ever, ever "pushed" Taco Bell or McDonald's on anyone.

Food freedom. Eat the foods you want to eat. Eat the foods you love to eat.

rml_16

If longevity is our goal maybe we should try to figure out what they ate in early Bible times (like the first part of the book of Genesis). Most of them lived to be 800/900 years old.

Loaves and fishes.

So ... wheat.