Paleo = dying young?
Replies
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There's many reason why people are obese and most is not related to their diet but more so psychological that probably stems back to their childhood........how depression going in North America, last time I looked it was scary. It's natural to believe in a theory that aligns with our thought process. Blaming sugar, HFCS, wheat/grains/dairy/saturated fat/cholesterol/refined carbs/simple carbs/meat/processed meat/gluten/salt/fruit et al is a fools game especially considering the most healthy people on the planet (google blue zone) consume all those to some degree. Nobody it appears want to take personal responsibility for their lack of daily exercise and their gluttony, but would rather formulate a set of reason instead.
Believer= cherry pick data, disregard what doesn't align with my thinking and make grand generalizations that might cover said *kitten*. Ok, gotcha.
His point was paleo is based on a logical fallacy.
Ninerbuff doesn't need to prove anything to nayone and so far your contributions are meh. lolCavemen also drank untreated water, and hunted for their food daily, sucked marrow out of bones, and scavenged when they had to......................................................I'm betting no paleo person on here does that.
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Wow. And you're supposed to be a personal/fitness trainer. This may be one of the stupidest comments I've seen in a while. Has absolutely NOTHING to do with the nutritional plan WHATSOEVER. Way to be bring asinine to the party.
No one needs to prove anything. I'm just asking for logical statements. Disagree all you want. But saying something totally nonsensical is stupid. Tomatoes are red. True, but who cares?
And I'm sure Ninerbuff is a big boy and can fight his own battles if he chooses to do so.
Well, that's where I disagree then. Is it one hundred percent perfect? No. But there is definitely logic behind its nutritional basis and the physiological responses in the body, and is particularly important for people with certain issues (whether it was designed for those specific purposes or not).
If you want to think it's cherry picking data, fine. I think the data shows an important trend --one that will only be further developed with more studies. Is it definitive or conclusive? No, but almost nothing in the scientific community relating to the body is because we still have so much to learn about the body's processes.
If you want to reject it, that's fine. Your prerogative. But, to pretend that there is no logical basis is simply wrong. One you may not agree with is different. Reasonable and logical people can have different opinions and draw different conclusions from the same fact set. That doesn't necessarily negate the other as being reasonable or logical.
I don't disagree with you that there are other issues -- and I think depression and other psychological issues definitely contribute to the overall problem and likely are the main issue for some people. But, do you think our time is more depressing than 100+ years ago? I'd think the opposite personally.
And I'm not saying that there is only one contributor. But, I do firmly believe that things like the excess/additional sugar, industrial transfat, grain-based carbs are contributors also. You can't do much about bad things that happened to you in the past, or at least not as easily as you can change what you eat going forward. And it's not a zero sum game. I'm not saying these things are like arsenic -- a little will kill you. Just that we as Americans eat too much of them, far more than we used to, if at all. And that's been a big contributor to the obesity problem in this nation.0 -
Also, contributors -- though I think the industrial revolution in the mid 1800s, the level of sedentary jobs hasn't increased at the same rate as obesity in this country. And a lot of those nutrient shallow, high calorie foods are filled with sugar substitutes and grain-based carbs. Coincidence?
Do you have data for that claim? What about when you factor in rises in TV viewing, video gaming, and computer use time?
Bottom line is that obesity has risen because people move less and eat more. People move less because jobs are more sedentary and indoor, sit-on-your-butt leisure activities such as HDTV and internet have increased. People eat more because calories are more delicious, more convenient, and cheaper now than they have ever been throughout human history.
There's no mystery here. It's not toxins or demon nutrients that are making people fat. It's sitting on your butt more and eating more. The solution therefore is, as always, to move more and eat less.
Ironically when people ask me how I lost so much weight, unless they are truly my friend and someone I care about I reply "Eat Less, Move More". I'm lying. I know I'm lying. I don't have time to talk to eveyone who asks about why I look so good in comparison to a couple years ago.
I really don't want to divulge how using MFP paired with Primal diet has cured cronic symptoms, given me more energy and the fat loss is icing on the cake of not being sick. Because they'll start trash talking calorie restriction and Paleo and telling me how much I inspired them in the same sentence.
So I don't. I give a white lie, that is mostly harmless, that I know isn't going to help anyone achieve a damn thing. "Eat less, Move more." My LIE. My LIE I tell people I hardly know or care about.
Think about that.
It's really my way of saying "I spent years figuring out what works for me. I'm not going to give you my secrets in a few sentences so you can look as good as me! Nope, the glory is mine and the journey is yours! I worked my *kitten* off to figure it out myself, so if you want it bad enough, you, grasshopper, will also find your way. Now I'm a very busy woman who needs to depart. Best of Luck to you."
"Eat less, Move more" It doesn't even mean anything. It's jargon. It's not going to help anyone.
(Edited for spelling.)
I edited my previous post to note that your diet doesn't look very Primal. I guess a large number of your individual meals or foods are, but.. what's the lie? You're losing weight by eating fewer calories and, presumably, exercising. You're counting calories and exercising while eating cake, peanut butter cups, beer, and 3 Musketeers bars. And the occasional McDouble with McNuggets. I guess without a bun the McDouble might be primal? Not sure, that cheese has a lot of ingredients that probably aren't. And the McNuggets are breaded. Maybe not. Pretty sure all the cake and candy bars aren't primal though. Oh, and Nachos Bell Grande! I love that stuff. Doubt it's Primal.
So ultimately you're losing weight by eating less, on a decidedly non-Primal diet, and moving more. So I'm not sure what the lie is.0 -
The real question is, what did our ancient Annunaki overloads feed our ancestors.
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It's not a fad for some. People do it because of diseases like Hashimoto's.
I have Hashimoto's. Tell my why I should eat paleo.
I think it's because a lot of people with auto-immune disorders have reactions to certain things -- gluten, casein, lactose and lechtins probably being the most notable -- which trigger the auto-immune reaction. Gluten is in wheat and other grains (and other items too), lactose and casein are in dairy products (less in full fat versions) and lechtins are in a bunch of things like lentils, peanuts, etc. The idea is that those with auto-immune issues are triggered by these things, whether it's Hashi's, Celiac, etc. More extreme cases like celiac can tolerate very little or no gluten. I don't think it's as extreme for people with Hashi's generally. So, if you don't eat these things, or reduce the amount you eat them, you don't end up with as many flare ups, running from hypo to hyper.
Some can tolerate the dairy and others can't -- it seems to be fine for me personally, but I don't really drink milk. The full-fat stuff like cheese, butter and cream is fine by me. Others with Hashi's notice issues with even that so they cut out all dairy too (which I think is inline with strict Paleo observers).
Also, if you have Hashi's you may also be insulin resistance (same if you have PCOS). It's something that they tend to see hand-in-hand, though there is a debate and which causes which. For that, Primal if it's lowish carb, also helps, especially if the carbs are low glycemic (i.e. not grains and certain fruits and veggies).
I can tell you personally, I feel much better on Primal/Paleo and have far less fatigue in general and even when I hit the swings, they're not as dramatic, which is HUGE for me. I also notice when I eat stuff with a lot of gluten in it -- have bread or a slice of pizza, my lymph glands swell on my neck, which is likely an indication of an auto-immune response and I get hit with the fatigue shortly thereafter (more extreme than just a sugar crash, though that is probably part of it too).
Not everyone with Hashi's feels better on Primal. But I do know a lot of people with Hashi's that do feel better on it. When I was eventually diagnosed with it, it was what my specialist recommended, but I'd already been eating that way for a while.0 -
Also, contributors -- though I think the industrial revolution in the mid 1800s, the level of sedentary jobs hasn't increased at the same rate as obesity in this country. And a lot of those nutrient shallow, high calorie foods are filled with sugar substitutes and grain-based carbs. Coincidence?
Do you have data for that claim? What about when you factor in rises in TV viewing, video gaming, and computer use time?
Bottom line is that obesity has risen because people move less and eat more. People move less because jobs are more sedentary and indoor, sit-on-your-butt leisure activities such as HDTV and internet have increased. People eat more because calories are more delicious, more convenient, and cheaper now than they have ever been throughout human history.
There's no mystery here. It's not toxins or demon nutrients that are making people fat. It's sitting on your butt more and eating more. The solution therefore is, as always, to move more and eat less.
Ironically when people ask me how I lost so much weight, unless they are truly my friend and someone I care about I reply "Eat Less, Move More". I'm lying. I know I'm lying. I don't have time to talk to eveyone who asks about why I look so good in comparison to a couple years ago.
I really don't want to divulge how using MFP paired with Primal diet has cured cronic symptoms, given me more energy and the fat loss is icing on the cake of not being sick. Because they'll start trash talking calorie restriction and Paleo and telling me how much I inspired them in the same sentence.
So I don't. I give a white lie, that is mostly harmless, that I know isn't going to help anyone achieve a damn thing. "Eat less, Move more." My LIE. My LIE I tell people I hardly know or care about.
Think about that.
This has been a very similar experience I've had and for many others I know that went Primal. I didn't have nearly the horror stories some people did with the chronic illness issues, but eating less and moving more wasn't working for me AT ALL. I was eating at 700+ daily deficit just to maintain my weight. And the doctors just said -- eat less and move more.
Switching to Primal helped immeasurably with fatigue, which was probably my biggest issue, but also in other smaller ways like being more focused and sleeping through the night (totally new for me!). And my cholesterol levels became awesome. After a year of that and still not losing much weight, my primary doctor was amazed at my new blood tests and asked what I'd done -- gone Primal. I was still really struggling to lose weight (even after training and running a half marathon) and ended up going to a specialist -- and lo and behold, I had both Hashi's and insulin resistance (which he says likely has gotten considerably better on Primal and low-ish carb which I'd been doing for the past year).
I didn't have crazy symptoms or extreme weight -- probably only 30-40 lbs. But I knew something was wrong but was told for YEARS, nope, nothing. I suspect my story is not that different from many out there. They too likely don't have huge issues, but are far from optimal, and have some underlying issue that eat less and move more isn't getting it done.
It would be extremely instructive if you could open your diary and then point to the time period you were eating 700+ calorie daily deficits without losing weight so we could compare to the time period you were eating Primal and losing weight.
I see you've been here since 2009 so I assume you were logging on MFP pre-Primal.
So could you show us this data, please?
I don't have that data. I track on Body Media, not MFP. I joined a long time ago but just recently returned. You'll just have to take my word for it.0 -
It would be extremely instructive if you could open your diary and then point to the time period you were eating 700+ calorie daily deficits without losing weight so we could compare to the time period you were eating Primal and losing weight.
I see you've been here since 2009 so I assume you were logging on MFP pre-Primal.
So could you show us this data, please?
I don't have that data.
What a shame. I guess we'll just have to take your word for it then, huh?
In contrast to your lack of data substantiating your claims, my diary is fully open and I will happily link to my complete history of weight and body composition data as well. The reader following along may make his or her own conclusions.0 -
That's awesome! That works for you.
I just wish people would just let each other do their own thing...took me a while on here to realize that everyone has to find what works for them.
And obviously, it was more than her just telling me how great she feels...she's lost 20 pounds, 3 dress sizes, and her stomach issues are gone as well as her joint inflammation.
What happened to just being happy for someone and thinking it's great that they found something that works for them instead of always a debate?
Let's talk about this.
So when someone posts in the forums that they're starting HCG, a diet that is known to be dangerous and restricts calories to a level the body can't handle, we should say what? "Good for you! Whatever works!"
If someone is pushing an obvious sales pitch to sell some MLM marketing meal replacement that does little for health and is very overpriced...should we not say a word and let new members line up to be fleeced only to face disappointment later?
Every single fad diet in the world has someone promoting it. No matter how dangerous or stupid. If there's money to be made someone is out there trying to separate people desperate to lose weight from their hard earned cash.
IF you stand by your diet plan, back up your words! Have some evidence for the claims you're making. Don't just say "everyone's different, different things work for everyone." Truth is everyone is pretty much the same. If we weren't it would be REALLY hard to be a doctor. Hell MFP only works because it knows if you're X height, X age, and X weight you need to eat X calories a day to lose weight. If we were all so very different and unique none of this would work.
You lose weight with a calorie deficit. Some people who suffer from allergies or conditions like PCOS or Hashimotos need to limit certain food groups. Other than that? We're all the same. We lose weight by eating less calories.
If someone tells you different, they're trying to sell you something.
Who is trying to "sell" anything with paleo? Farmers should benefit, since we're eating more natural, unprocessed foods. I don't see any big corporations backing paleo - there's no money in it for them!
If I had a friend planning to try a "fad" diet that in my opinion would be unhealthy, then I would tell them. Fad diets are promoted by companies trying to make a buck. How can eating real food be considered a fad?0 -
Who is trying to "sell" anything with paleo? Farmers should benefit, since we're eating more natural, unprocessed foods. I don't see any big corporations backing paleo - there's no money in it for them!
If I had a friend planning to try a "fad" diet that in my opinion would be unhealthy, then I would tell them. Fad diets are promoted by companies trying to make a buck. How can eating real food be considered a fad?
All of these people are "selling" the Paleo diet by producing for-profit books and videos supporting it:
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=paleo diet
There's nothing inherently wrong with the diet other than it being unnecessarily restrictive. It's not unhealthy.0 -
*sigh*The real question is, what did our ancient Annunaki overloads feed our ancestors.
I used to love the History Channel. And somewhere between when I stopped getting it and started again, this happened.0 -
I'll just leave this hereThat's awesome! That works for you.
I just wish people would just let each other do their own thing...took me a while on here to realize that everyone has to find what works for them.
And obviously, it was more than her just telling me how great she feels...she's lost 20 pounds, 3 dress sizes, and her stomach issues are gone as well as her joint inflammation.
What happened to just being happy for someone and thinking it's great that they found something that works for them instead of always a debate?
Let's talk about this.
So when someone posts in the forums that they're starting HCG, a diet that is known to be dangerous and restricts calories to a level the body can't handle, we should say what? "Good for you! Whatever works!"
If someone is pushing an obvious sales pitch to sell some MLM marketing meal replacement that does little for health and is very overpriced...should we not say a word and let new members line up to be fleeced only to face disappointment later?
Every single fad diet in the world has someone promoting it. No matter how dangerous or stupid. If there's money to be made someone is out there trying to separate people desperate to lose weight from their hard earned cash.
IF you stand by your diet plan, back up your words! Have some evidence for the claims you're making. Don't just say "everyone's different, different things work for everyone." Truth is everyone is pretty much the same. If we weren't it would be REALLY hard to be a doctor. Hell MFP only works because it knows if you're X height, X age, and X weight you need to eat X calories a day to lose weight. If we were all so very different and unique none of this would work.
You lose weight with a calorie deficit. Some people who suffer from allergies or conditions like PCOS or Hashimotos need to limit certain food groups. Other than that? We're all the same. We lose weight by eating less calories.
If someone tells you different, they're trying to sell you something.
Who is trying to "sell" anything with paleo? Farmers should benefit, since we're eating more natural, unprocessed foods. I don't see any big corporations backing paleo - there's no money in it for them!
If I had a friend planning to try a "fad" diet that in my opinion would be unhealthy, then I would tell them. Fad diets are promoted by companies trying to make a buck. How can eating real food be considered a fad?0 -
It would be extremely instructive if you could open your diary and then point to the time period you were eating 700+ calorie daily deficits without losing weight so we could compare to the time period you were eating Primal and losing weight.
I see you've been here since 2009 so I assume you were logging on MFP pre-Primal.
So could you show us this data, please?
I don't have that data.
What a shame. I guess we'll just have to take your word for it then, huh?
In contrast to your lack of data substantiating your claims, my diary is fully open and I will happily link to my complete history of weight and body composition data as well. The reader following along may make his or her own conclusions.
Yes. Luckily, I'm super honest. I don't splice quotes or misrepresent them. Full integrity.0 -
I'm going to pioneer the medieval diet for the mass market.
You don't eat any meat or fish you haven't let the blood of yourself, and you'll live by the 1500s carving, "Beware of green salads and raw fruits, for they will make your master sick."
Dairy is good, sugar is good, cereals are good, and bacon is really good.
Profits.
ETA: because look at how healthy this lady is... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-111615250 -
That's awesome! That works for you.
I just wish people would just let each other do their own thing...took me a while on here to realize that everyone has to find what works for them.
And obviously, it was more than her just telling me how great she feels...she's lost 20 pounds, 3 dress sizes, and her stomach issues are gone as well as her joint inflammation.
What happened to just being happy for someone and thinking it's great that they found something that works for them instead of always a debate?
Let's talk about this.
So when someone posts in the forums that they're starting HCG, a diet that is known to be dangerous and restricts calories to a level the body can't handle, we should say what? "Good for you! Whatever works!"
If someone is pushing an obvious sales pitch to sell some MLM marketing meal replacement that does little for health and is very overpriced...should we not say a word and let new members line up to be fleeced only to face disappointment later?
Every single fad diet in the world has someone promoting it. No matter how dangerous or stupid. If there's money to be made someone is out there trying to separate people desperate to lose weight from their hard earned cash.
IF you stand by your diet plan, back up your words! Have some evidence for the claims you're making. Don't just say "everyone's different, different things work for everyone." Truth is everyone is pretty much the same. If we weren't it would be REALLY hard to be a doctor. Hell MFP only works because it knows if you're X height, X age, and X weight you need to eat X calories a day to lose weight. If we were all so very different and unique none of this would work.
You lose weight with a calorie deficit. Some people who suffer from allergies or conditions like PCOS or Hashimotos need to limit certain food groups. Other than that? We're all the same. We lose weight by eating less calories.
If someone tells you different, they're trying to sell you something.
Who is trying to "sell" anything with paleo? Farmers should benefit, since we're eating more natural, unprocessed foods. I don't see any big corporations backing paleo - there's no money in it for them!
If I had a friend planning to try a "fad" diet that in my opinion would be unhealthy, then I would tell them. Fad diets are promoted by companies trying to make a buck. How can eating real food be considered a fad?
I totally agree. Is Paleo a big conspiracy by organic farmers and grass-fed ranchers?
If anything, Paleo is an anti-fad diet. It goes against the grain of the big business behind factory farms, dairy, wheat/grains, weight loss industry, fast food industry, etc. I don't think Paleo/Primal have any special interest groups lobbying in Washington and yet all those other groups do....hmmmm...0 -
It would be extremely instructive if you could open your diary and then point to the time period you were eating 700+ calorie daily deficits without losing weight so we could compare to the time period you were eating Primal and losing weight.
I see you've been here since 2009 so I assume you were logging on MFP pre-Primal.
So could you show us this data, please?
I don't have that data.
What a shame. I guess we'll just have to take your word for it then, huh?
In contrast to your lack of data substantiating your claims, my diary is fully open and I will happily link to my complete history of weight and body composition data as well. The reader following along may make his or her own conclusions.
Yes. Luckily, I'm super honest. I don't splice quotes or misrepresent them. Full integrity.
Nothing says "integrity" like making anonymous claims about things you've done online without offering data to verify it.0 -
I'll just leave this hereThat's awesome! That works for you.
I just wish people would just let each other do their own thing...took me a while on here to realize that everyone has to find what works for them.
And obviously, it was more than her just telling me how great she feels...she's lost 20 pounds, 3 dress sizes, and her stomach issues are gone as well as her joint inflammation.
What happened to just being happy for someone and thinking it's great that they found something that works for them instead of always a debate?
Let's talk about this.
So when someone posts in the forums that they're starting HCG, a diet that is known to be dangerous and restricts calories to a level the body can't handle, we should say what? "Good for you! Whatever works!"
If someone is pushing an obvious sales pitch to sell some MLM marketing meal replacement that does little for health and is very overpriced...should we not say a word and let new members line up to be fleeced only to face disappointment later?
Every single fad diet in the world has someone promoting it. No matter how dangerous or stupid. If there's money to be made someone is out there trying to separate people desperate to lose weight from their hard earned cash.
IF you stand by your diet plan, back up your words! Have some evidence for the claims you're making. Don't just say "everyone's different, different things work for everyone." Truth is everyone is pretty much the same. If we weren't it would be REALLY hard to be a doctor. Hell MFP only works because it knows if you're X height, X age, and X weight you need to eat X calories a day to lose weight. If we were all so very different and unique none of this would work.
You lose weight with a calorie deficit. Some people who suffer from allergies or conditions like PCOS or Hashimotos need to limit certain food groups. Other than that? We're all the same. We lose weight by eating less calories.
If someone tells you different, they're trying to sell you something.
Who is trying to "sell" anything with paleo? Farmers should benefit, since we're eating more natural, unprocessed foods. I don't see any big corporations backing paleo - there's no money in it for them!
If I had a friend planning to try a "fad" diet that in my opinion would be unhealthy, then I would tell them. Fad diets are promoted by companies trying to make a buck. How can eating real food be considered a fad?
Fair enough. There are products out there. I'd just forgotten about them. But you don't need them at all. I don't use any products like that.0 -
There is a ton of different diets as we all know, and there are a ton of studies that say one thing and a different study says another. I am not a successful dieter (if thats a word) but I have had success doing weight watchers, adkins, MFP, and the 17 day diet, but eventually gained it all +more back. The problems for me had nothing to do with the diet, I was the problem. Most diets will work if you stay with it. For me I finally realized that a diet of any kind will not work for me, I need a lifestyle change!
I am actually tracking my eating and excersizing on this site and trying to stay under my calories. I've only lost 5 total pounds in almost a month, but i'm ok with it. I've eaten bad (and too much beer) on the weekends, but I'm slowly getting better about it and plan on slowly changing my lifestyle for the long term.
There is way too much diet/workout routine bashing here, do want you want if it works great, if not or you hit a standstill, adjust.
I am officially off the soap box. enjoy your weekend!0 -
Since it is based upon pseudoscience, it can be anything anyone wants it to be.That's awesome! That works for you.
I just wish people would just let each other do their own thing...took me a while on here to realize that everyone has to find what works for them.
And obviously, it was more than her just telling me how great she feels...she's lost 20 pounds, 3 dress sizes, and her stomach issues are gone as well as her joint inflammation.
What happened to just being happy for someone and thinking it's great that they found something that works for them instead of always a debate?
Let's talk about this.
So when someone posts in the forums that they're starting HCG, a diet that is known to be dangerous and restricts calories to a level the body can't handle, we should say what? "Good for you! Whatever works!"
If someone is pushing an obvious sales pitch to sell some MLM marketing meal replacement that does little for health and is very overpriced...should we not say a word and let new members line up to be fleeced only to face disappointment later?
Every single fad diet in the world has someone promoting it. No matter how dangerous or stupid. If there's money to be made someone is out there trying to separate people desperate to lose weight from their hard earned cash.
IF you stand by your diet plan, back up your words! Have some evidence for the claims you're making. Don't just say "everyone's different, different things work for everyone." Truth is everyone is pretty much the same. If we weren't it would be REALLY hard to be a doctor. Hell MFP only works because it knows if you're X height, X age, and X weight you need to eat X calories a day to lose weight. If we were all so very different and unique none of this would work.
You lose weight with a calorie deficit. Some people who suffer from allergies or conditions like PCOS or Hashimotos need to limit certain food groups. Other than that? We're all the same. We lose weight by eating less calories.
If someone tells you different, they're trying to sell you something.
Who is trying to "sell" anything with paleo? Farmers should benefit, since we're eating more natural, unprocessed foods. I don't see any big corporations backing paleo - there's no money in it for them!
If I had a friend planning to try a "fad" diet that in my opinion would be unhealthy, then I would tell them. Fad diets are promoted by companies trying to make a buck. How can eating real food be considered a fad?
I totally agree. Is Paleo a big conspiracy by organic farmers and grass-fed ranchers?
If anything, Paleo is an anti-fad diet. It goes against the grain of the big business behind factory farms, dairy, wheat/grains, weight loss industry, fast food industry, etc. I don't think Paleo/Primal have any special interest groups lobbying in Washington and yet all those other groups do....hmmmm...0 -
It would be extremely instructive if you could open your diary and then point to the time period you were eating 700+ calorie daily deficits without losing weight so we could compare to the time period you were eating Primal and losing weight.
I see you've been here since 2009 so I assume you were logging on MFP pre-Primal.
So could you show us this data, please?
I don't have that data.
What a shame. I guess we'll just have to take your word for it then, huh?
In contrast to your lack of data substantiating your claims, my diary is fully open and I will happily link to my complete history of weight and body composition data as well. The reader following along may make his or her own conclusions.
Yes. Luckily, I'm super honest. I don't splice quotes or misrepresent them. Full integrity.
Nothing says "integrity" like making anonymous claims about things you've done online without offering data to verify it.
Ugh, I have offered data, just not my own personal set. I've offered my testimony -- that is data. It's just as reliable data as a food diary as I could have manufactured that as well. I just know now that you're not interested in an honest discussion an exchange of ideas, but just tearing down people that have had difference experiences than you.0 -
Ugh, I have offered data, just not my own personal set. I've offered my testimony -- that is data. It's just as reliable data as a food diary as I could have manufactured that as well. I just know now that you're not interested in an honest discussion an exchange of ideas, but just tearing down people that have had difference experiences than you.
If you offered data, I missed it.
I requested that you provide some data or evidence that two sets of people without a diagnosed eating disorder showed clinically different weight loss results on isocaloric diets. You responded that you know of no such data.
I requested that you provide the data that shows to us that you were eating a 700+ calorie daily deficit without losing weight, then switched to Primal and started losing weight. You responded that you cannot provide such data.
"My personal testimony" is not data.
I'm not tearing down people, I'm tearing down poor arguments that cannot be substantiated or supported with data.0 -
Ninerbuff doesn't need to prove anything to nayone and so far your contributions are meh. lolCavemen also drank untreated water, and hunted for their food daily, sucked marrow out of bones, and scavenged when they had to......................................................I'm betting no paleo person on here does that.
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Wow. And you're supposed to be a personal/fitness trainer. This may be one of the stupidest comments I've seen in a while. Has absolutely NOTHING to do with the nutritional plan WHATSOEVER. Way to be bring asinine to the party.
No one needs to prove anything. I'm just asking for logical statements. Disagree all you want. But saying something totally nonsensical is stupid. Tomatoes are red. True, but who cares?
And I'm sure Ninerbuff is a big boy and can fight his own battles if he chooses to do so.
what did he say that was illogical?
He simply pointed out that a "paleo lifestyle" should involve all aspects of how said paleo people lived. Are you saying that cavemen drank treated water or had Aquafina?0 -
Cavemen also drank untreated water, and hunted for their food daily, sucked marrow out of bones, and scavenged when they had to......................................................I'm betting no paleo person on here does that.
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
My husband hunts in the appropriate seasons, and we drink well water.....but no, I haven't scavenged or sucked marrow...yet!
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Ugh, I have offered data, just not my own personal set. I've offered my testimony -- that is data, jerkoff. It's just as reliable data as a food diary as I could have manufactured that as well. I just know now that you're not interested in an honest discussion an exchange of ideas, but just tearing down people that have had difference experiences than you. You don't happen to be my brother -- is that you, Matt?
If you offered data, I missed it.
I requested that you provide some data or evidence that two sets of people without a diagnosed eating disorder showed clinically different weight loss results on isocaloric diets. You responded that you know of no such data.
I requested that you provide the data that shows to us that you were eating a 700+ calorie daily deficit without losing weight, then switched to Primal and started losing weight. You responded that you cannot provide such data.
"My personal testimony" is not data.
I'm not tearing down people, I'm tearing down poor arguments that cannot be substantiated or supported with data.
Personal testimony is data. I told you that it was a 700+ daily deficit as an average -- that's data. Showing you further underlying data supporting that is not necessary unless you don't believe it. Proving something or providing supporting information is different than providing data.
It's just totally stupid in this case because if you don't believe the assertion that I had that deficit, why would you believe the underlying food journal entries? They could be faked just as easily.
Once again, there isn't really much point to this discussion when you're coming from such a premise. I'll leave you to the others.0 -
I told you that it was a 700+ daily deficit as an average -- that's data. Showing you further underlying data supporting that is not necessary unless you don't believe it.
Let me make it clear: I do not believe that you were eating an average 700+ calorie daily deficit and not losing weight. Many people have made such claims and to date I have seen not a single one that substantiated the claim by offering their personal data.
This is your golden opportunity to provide your personal data substantiating the claim and making me look like a total buffoon. Your move.0 -
Ninerbuff doesn't need to prove anything to nayone and so far your contributions are meh. lolCavemen also drank untreated water, and hunted for their food daily, sucked marrow out of bones, and scavenged when they had to......................................................I'm betting no paleo person on here does that.
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Wow. And you're supposed to be a personal/fitness trainer. This may be one of the stupidest comments I've seen in a while. Has absolutely NOTHING to do with the nutritional plan WHATSOEVER. Way to be bring asinine to the party.
No one needs to prove anything. I'm just asking for logical statements. Disagree all you want. But saying something totally nonsensical is stupid. Tomatoes are red. True, but who cares?
And I'm sure Ninerbuff is a big boy and can fight his own battles if he chooses to do so.
what did he say that was illogical?
He simply pointed out that a "paleo lifestyle" should involve all aspects of how said paleo people lived. Are you saying that cavemen drank treated water or had Aquafina?
C'mon. Seriously? Do you take everything in your life so literally?
Do you think the Paleo/Primal diet really means do everything a caveman did? Really? That's just intellectually dishonest, unless you have some condition like Aspergers where you can't differentiate between the two.0 -
*sigh*The real question is, what did our ancient Annunaki overloads feed our ancestors.
I used to love the History Channel. And somewhere between when I stopped getting it and started again, this happened.
LOL I actually like "ancient aliens" but I have always liked weird *kitten* sci fi kind of stuff ....the dork in me I suppose...0 -
Probably too new to even offer an opinion - but I know it is working. My daughter, husband and I started the 30-day challenge 16 days ago and have lost a combined 22 pounds. For me, I was having a lot of difficulty losing weight using the same approach I had used the rest of my life.
The big differences:
No processed anything - no chemicals, sugar, preservatives, immense salt, etc.
No alcohol - yep, I was probably having wine too many nights
No grains - Persuasive info on how modern grains muck up your system
No dairy - I was pretty sad about giving up cheese - but I haven't missed it as much as I thought I would
No legumes - I'm fine doing this temporarily - but would like to fit lentils and a few other beans back in over time
Lots of beautiful vegetables and fruits, nuts and seeds, almond milk, almond butter, meats and eggs. Never hungry. Working out hard also.
Not interested in what cavemen ate, how long they lived, etc. :-)0 -
I told you that it was a 700+ daily deficit as an average -- that's data. Showing you further underlying data supporting that is not necessary unless you don't believe it.
Let me make it clear: I do not believe that you were eating an average 700+ calorie daily deficit and not losing weight.
That's at least honest. Believe it or not. I lived it, so I know it to be true. Talk to others that have hypothyroid or insulin resistance issues and you'll find it to be pretty darn common. In fact, you'll far more extreme examples than just 700+ average daily calorie deficit.0 -
But ... it isn't HISTORY. lol Put it on the Sy-Fy channel, ya know?
*sigh*The real question is, what did our ancient Annunaki overloads feed our ancestors.
I used to love the History Channel. And somewhere between when I stopped getting it and started again, this happened.
LOL I actually like "ancient aliens" but I have always liked weird *kitten* sci fi kind of stuff ....the dork in me I suppose...0 -
Ninerbuff doesn't need to prove anything to nayone and so far your contributions are meh. lolCavemen also drank untreated water, and hunted for their food daily, sucked marrow out of bones, and scavenged when they had to......................................................I'm betting no paleo person on here does that.
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Wow. And you're supposed to be a personal/fitness trainer. This may be one of the stupidest comments I've seen in a while. Has absolutely NOTHING to do with the nutritional plan WHATSOEVER. Way to be bring asinine to the party.
No one needs to prove anything. I'm just asking for logical statements. Disagree all you want. But saying something totally nonsensical is stupid. Tomatoes are red. True, but who cares?
And I'm sure Ninerbuff is a big boy and can fight his own battles if he chooses to do so.
what did he say that was illogical?
He simply pointed out that a "paleo lifestyle" should involve all aspects of how said paleo people lived. Are you saying that cavemen drank treated water or had Aquafina?
C'mon. Seriously? Do you take everything in your life so literally?
Do you think the Paleo/Primal diet really means do everything a caveman did? Really? That's just intellectually dishonest, unless you have some condition like Aspergers where you can't differentiate between the two.
LOL now you are trying to acuse me of being mentally handicapped? When you resort to name calling it means you have lost the debate...
I simply pointed out that nothing he said was illogical...caveman drank untreated water = logical = true...
I believe the point is (I will let 49er speak for himself) is that maybe eating like a caveman did 100,000 years ago really does not matter...0 -
But ... it isn't HISTORY. lol Put it on the Sy-Fy channel, ya know?
*sigh*The real question is, what did our ancient Annunaki overloads feed our ancestors.
I used to love the History Channel. And somewhere between when I stopped getting it and started again, this happened.
LOL I actually like "ancient aliens" but I have always liked weird *kitten* sci fi kind of stuff ....the dork in me I suppose...
I guess it is history in the sense that they are examining ancient cultures in search of some kind of alien connection...that is my take?0
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