Whole Foods: the Temple of Pseudoscience.

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  • ILiftHeavyAcrylics
    ILiftHeavyAcrylics Posts: 27,732 Member
    How do you feel about homeopathy, Reddy?

    skeptical.

    For everyone, I have a little hint that both an MD and a Pharmacist told me: they don't have any prescription or non-prescription medicines to offer for nail fungus- but they both recommended tea tree oil, which you can buy in both "health food" stores and in drug stores. Claims are not made on the tea tree oil package, as unfortunately can be found on useless off the shelf "remedies" for nail fungus. I showed these other remedies to the Pharmacist, who told me bluntly, they do not work. But tea tree oil does work. I think it might fall into a homeopathic category although for me the treatment information came from doctors.
    Nail fungus is what you can get at nail salons which don't properly autoclave their instruments.
    As for Whole Foods, and homeopathy in general, I am skeptical about a lot of things but I don't think it wise to shut your mind.

    Unless the tea tree oil is diluted repeatedly in water, it would not be considered homeopathy. Just an herbal remedy, some of which do work.
  • ChristinWrites
    ChristinWrites Posts: 119 Member
    Tea tree oil is not a homeopathic remedy though. Tea tree oil is an essential oil. There are many essential oils with anti-fungal and antibacterial properties. I use them in homemade soaps, lotions and other such things.
  • rml_16
    rml_16 Posts: 16,414 Member
    Meh.

    I was in one for the first time today.

    1. I liked the atmosphere.
    2. I was surprised it was reasonably priced.
    3. I found affordable lotion that was vegetarian-friendly and cruelty free.

    I'll go back for those reasons. I don't need any others.
  • devil_in_a_blue_dress
    devil_in_a_blue_dress Posts: 5,214 Member
    Anyone been in parking lot of the Whole Foods in Pittsburgh? Sometimes I crave their fake chicken nuggets and it's worth risking my life. 95% of the time, give me the Dirty Birdie (Giant Eagle) or Save a Lot.
  • FlaxMilk
    FlaxMilk Posts: 3,452 Member
    Tagging
  • rml_16
    rml_16 Posts: 16,414 Member
    Reading a bit back through the thread and people are saying it's really pricey, but the produce I saw was only slightly more expensive than Walmart and cheaper than Publix (if you don't live in the Southeast, Publix is our "regular" grocery store). I mentioned the lotion ($5 and change for a HUGE bottle, cheaper than the St. Ives I've been buying) and my friend got a HUGE bottle of EVOO for $5.99. Unheard-of cheap.

    I didn't look at much else, though. We did see an overpriced bag of pretzels, but I don't like pretzels, anyway.
  • Myhaloslipped
    Myhaloslipped Posts: 4,317 Member
    I have noticed that Whole Foods has extremely low-priced wine.
  • dayone987
    dayone987 Posts: 645 Member
    I was in a Whole Foods once. Yeah, it has a nice atmosphere and I was initially seduced by the whole vibe. Great marketing.

    Then I looked in my cart and added up what a piece of cheese, some slightly bruised apples, and a few buns were going to cost and decided to leave.

    This was in NYC; don't know if the prices were higher b/c of that but other small grocery stores in the area had reasonable prices.
  • FlaxMilk
    FlaxMilk Posts: 3,452 Member
    Ok, admitted skim because my brain won't fire on, but the article didn't help me understand what makes WF any different than the drug store, Target, Walmart, or the grocery store. All of those places sell herbs, supplements, teas, vitamins, and other products that make psuedoscience claims. Food companies have to be told at times to take off claims on their boxes because they are misleading. Even so, it's still ok to write things like, "A diet blah blah blah in blah blah blah has been shown that it may help with heart disease."

    Advertising is advertising, and it's everywhere, and it's no different than having to use your brain anywhere else. Anywhere that sells supplements these days is likely to have the same products as Whole Foods. Diet pills in particular are sold with miraculous claims attached. Any book store you go into is going to be filled with pseudoscience and fiction.

    I love to go to WF when I can get there, so I am biased, but I go because they are a great source of vegan products that I can't get elsewhere. I really don't feel any more advertised to there than I do anywhere else. It's not like you are expected to have one belief system when you walk in. I don't worry about buying organic and haven't given it a second thought while in Whole Foods. I don't even look at the produce because I assume I can get it somewhere else cheaper. But that's not the only store I do that at.
  • lisawinning4losing
    lisawinning4losing Posts: 726 Member
    Instead of going to Whole Paycheck go to Trader Joes or a Farmer's Market or any local health food store that has fresh organic produce, and even most supermarkets have organic now. Look for O Organics.
  • jonnythan
    jonnythan Posts: 10,161 Member
    The difference is that WF positions itself as a superior choice largely because of these things. It's a core part of the appeal and not just another product in a huge store.
  • cwsreddy
    cwsreddy Posts: 998 Member
    Instead of going to Whole Paycheck go to Trader Joes or a Farmer's Market or any local health food store that has fresh organic produce, and even most supermarkets have organic now. Look for O Organics.
    TJ's 4 LYFE
  • FlaxMilk
    FlaxMilk Posts: 3,452 Member

    I stopped shopping at CVS when I first saw a homeopathy section there. Never seen that at Walgreen's and we don't have Duane Reed.
    But I'm not boycotting Whole Foods anyway. I'm not asking anyone to stop shopping there either. I'd buy something there if I wanted it.

    I'd have to make an effort to avoid stores that don't have some kind of homeopathy product, and I don't live in a "hippy" area. Stores are just realizing that having a big selection means they get more business. Even my grocery store has homeopathy products available in numerous sections. I don't think homeopathy is all that different from selling Emergen-C and Airborne as if they are the over the counter version of the flu vaccine. The vitamin/supplement industry has always gotten away with making grandiose suggestions and claims. If you really want to avoid that, stay away from a GNC.
  • WakkoW
    WakkoW Posts: 567 Member
    Bump
  • jonnythan
    jonnythan Posts: 10,161 Member
    At least vitamins actually contain... something.
  • FlaxMilk
    FlaxMilk Posts: 3,452 Member
    The difference is that WF positions itself as a superior choice largely because of these things. It's a core part of the appeal and not just another product in a huge store.

    In the spirit of intellectual honesty, :wink: , does the store really market itself that way? I associate WF with vegan products. Someone else mentioned organic and gluten free. Someone else mentioned vegetarian hand lotion. Homeopathy doesn't even enter into my framework. (Seriously, if I wanted homeopathy, I'd check online first for the cheapest options. I'd never get supplements anywhere else these days.)

    I know their marketing includes mentioning different health products, but I don't see their advertising as being any different from any other store trying to make itself appear superior. Subway is all over the "we're healthy and thus superior" advertising but it is increasingly more possible to get reasonable meal choices at pretty much any fast food place now.
  • FlaxMilk
    FlaxMilk Posts: 3,452 Member
    At least vitamins actually contain... something.

    Depending ... they are so poorly regulated, sometimes they contain a fraction to none of what they say they do. Scientists still debate whether or not they are even beneficial. (I say this as a vitamin taker.)
  • QuietBloom
    QuietBloom Posts: 5,413 Member
    Almost everything you hear now from articles to news stories is pseudoscience.

    I have just gotten a little better about reading between the lines as well as knowing the difference between causation and correlation.

    SO much this. In the case of Whole Foods, they are going to sell what people will buy. I know lots of folks who shop there because they carry a decent selection of gluten-free options. And it's quit trendy to buy gluten-free. Nice it's there for those who actually need it.
  • jonnythan
    jonnythan Posts: 10,161 Member
    Market positioning is about a lot more than advertisements. Store layouts, product selection, in store signage, etc.
  • amandakev88
    amandakev88 Posts: 328 Member
    h8BA4A435
  • Blue801
    Blue801 Posts: 442
    I think the internet is the true temple of pseudoscience. That's where the worship happens. Or maybe I just don't get out much.
  • ILiftHeavyAcrylics
    ILiftHeavyAcrylics Posts: 27,732 Member
    The main thing I liked about the article was that it points out the hypocrisy of looking down on pseudoscience in some formats (like creationism) while ignoring it in other forms. We've all got our blind spots.
  • cwsreddy
    cwsreddy Posts: 998 Member
    Market positioning is about a lot more than advertisements. Store layouts, product selection, in store signage, etc.

    you dont go to CVS because of the signage?
  • FlaxMilk
    FlaxMilk Posts: 3,452 Member
    Market positioning is about a lot more than advertisements. Store layouts, product selection, in store signage, etc.

    Aw, Jonny. You can't make fun of people who talk about big pharma and big food and then get uncomfortable about big WF. :drinker:

    As someone who shops at WF, I agree that marketing is not just about advertising, and I still associate WF with ... food. There's a lot of it. It's huge, and there are sections I don't even bother with because I know they are filled with foods I can't eat. I don't see why their vitamin/homeopathy section is any different than anyone else's.
  • lisawinning4losing
    lisawinning4losing Posts: 726 Member
    I have noticed that Whole Foods has extremely low-priced wine.

    Not as low priced as the two buck chuck you can get at Trader Joe's, which I actually think is pretty good. ;)
  • cwsreddy
    cwsreddy Posts: 998 Member
    Market positioning is about a lot more than advertisements. Store layouts, product selection, in store signage, etc.

    Aw, Jonny. You can't make fun of people who talk about big pharma and big food and then get uncomfortable about big WF. :drinker:

    As someone who shops at WF, I agree that marketing is not just about advertising, and I still associate WF with ... food. There's a lot of it. It's huge, and there are sections I don't even bother with because I know they are filled with foods I can't eat. I don't see why their vitamin/homeopathy section is any different than anyone else's.

    :drinker:
  • Blue801
    Blue801 Posts: 442
    The main thing I liked about the article was that it points out the hypocrisy of looking down on pseudoscience in some formats (like creationism) while ignoring it in other forms. We've all got our blind spots.

    Yeah, he tried to draw that parallel and I didn't really buy it. Crazy religious folks making a whole museum to teach anti-science vs. corporation out to sell fad nutrition and pseudoscience products, didn't seem like they would demand the same response. Oddly enough I have the same response to both, *shrug... Sigh*. :noway: :yawn:
  • FlaxMilk
    FlaxMilk Posts: 3,452 Member
    The main thing I liked about the article was that it points out the hypocrisy of looking down on pseudoscience in some formats (like creationism) while ignoring it in other forms. We've all got our blind spots.

    I already forget the article, but my issue with comparing WF to creationism is that one is a business, filled with competing products to sell you stuff and make a profit. One is a belief system. I would argue that pretty much any religion is not scientifically provable in all tenants, but we have churches, temples, and places to buy religious items every-where. We send our kids to the schools. We have tax exemptions for them. Why are we worried about WF over GNC? Let the buyer beware.
  • jonnythan
    jonnythan Posts: 10,161 Member
    Market positioning is about a lot more than advertisements. Store layouts, product selection, in store signage, etc.

    you dont go to CVS because of the signage?

    I don't go to CVS because I think a pharmacy has a certain duty to its customers and having a prominent homeopathic section violates that.

    But I have no problem with going to WF.
  • jonnythan
    jonnythan Posts: 10,161 Member
    Market positioning is about a lot more than advertisements. Store layouts, product selection, in store signage, etc.

    Aw, Jonny. You can't make fun of people who talk about big pharma and big food and then get uncomfortable about big WF. :drinker:

    As someone who shops at WF, I agree that marketing is not just about advertising, and I still associate WF with ... food. There's a lot of it. It's huge, and there are sections I don't even bother with because I know they are filled with foods I can't eat. I don't see why their vitamin/homeopathy section is any different than anyone else's.

    I don't think I "make fun of people who talk about big pharma." There's a lot of unsavory stuff about pharmaceutical companies, from burying data to buying off physicians. I don't think I've ever made fun of people who talk about big pharma, so I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at here.

    Also, not sure what "vitamin/homeopathy" section means either. Vitamins are not homeopathy. Homeopathy is magic - the literal idea is that the substance being sold contains nothing of note besides literal magic. And homeopathy is just one aspect of the pseudoscience and anti-science WF largely builds its brand on.

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