Whole Foods: the Temple of Pseudoscience.

dpwellman

Essentially he's simply writing it for the benefit of people who already agree with him and don't need to be persuaded.

You just summed up the entirety of TheDailyBeast-- Proving there can be a worse iteration of Slate

FlaxMilk

Now that the strong impulse to argue has left me, I'm feeling a bit of guilt for taking it out on your thread. :flowerforyou: I'm going back into observation mode ...

dpwellman

Think that what? Creationism is anti-science?

What makes you think that science is anti-creation (or it's recently repackaged iteration: intelligent design)?

Blue801

Now that the strong impulse to argue has left me, I'm feeling a bit of guilt for taking it out on your thread. :flowerforyou: I'm going back into observation mode ...

Awe! But you're always so nice about it. Don't hide. ((((Hugs))))
You provide good discission.

jonnythan

Think that what? Creationism is anti-science?

What makes you think that science is anti-creation (or it's recently repackaged iteration: intelligent design)?

Not sure what "anti-creation" means. Creationism is anti-science in that it rejects scientific principles and theories. I'm not going to discuss the merits of creationism.

FlaxMilk

Now that the strong impulse to argue has left me, I'm feeling a bit of guilt for taking it out on your thread. :flowerforyou: I'm going back into observation mode ...

Awe! But you're always so nice about it. Don't hide. ((((Hugs))))
You provide good discission.

:flowerforyou: Aww thank you. So sweet! I think we'll all be better off if I read instead of post tonight, though! :laugh:

ILiftHeavyAcrylics

I thought the placebo effect works, a lot of times. So even if the product doesn't work from a biochemical standpoint, it could from a psychological standpoint, which can create real physiological effects, right? So maybe these are effective products for the ignorant.

Well, it depends on your definition of works I guess. To me it doesn't work. It just makes a person think it's working. But there's no measurable physiological change.

ILiftHeavyAcrylics

Now that the strong impulse to argue has left me, I'm feeling a bit of guilt for taking it out on your thread. :flowerforyou: I'm going back into observation mode ...

Awe! But you're always so nice about it. Don't hide. ((((Hugs))))
You provide good discission.

Agreed.

FlaxMilk

Now that the strong impulse to argue has left me, I'm feeling a bit of guilt for taking it out on your thread. :flowerforyou: I'm going back into observation mode ...

Awe! But you're always so nice about it. Don't hide. ((((Hugs))))
You provide good discission.

Agreed.

:smooched:

jofjltncb6

In...

...for post-workout reading.

ahamm002

The place sells homeopathic remedies. That's not "anecdotal evidence" that fails under scrutiny. It establishes that the store sells pseudoscience.

Homeopathic remedies are a tiny tiny tiny part of Whole Foods business. They make most of their money by having incredibly fresh and good tasting food. They get fresh fish in 6 days per week. And besides, not all the supplements they sell are homeopahthic.

Whole Foods also sells an enormous quantity of hard to find supplements which have been demonstrated in WESTERN MEDICINE peer reviewed studies to have benefits. For example, you can't find probiotics for newborns at any other store. Yet physicians often recommend them for newborns who need antibiotics and are bottle fed. Physicians also occasionally recommend supplements like grapefruit seed extract, which you'd never find anywhere else.

ktrn0312

Bump

dpwellman

Not sure what "anti-creation" means. Creationism is anti-science in that it rejects scientific principles and theories. I'm not going to discuss the merits of creationism.

When you figure out the difference between a principle and a conclusion, let us all know. Its in the interests of all parties involved. But otherwise, thanks for the lulz.

msf74

I am a little surprised by some of the responses to this thread but then perhaps I shouldn't be.

It is quite right, in my view, to express distaste at McDonalds for being one of the biggest, if not the biggest, distributors of children's toys in the world because they want to capture consumers at the earliest age possible. It is quite right, in my view, to express distaste at Coca Cola at sponsoring sporting events so as to co-opt the positive experiences from exercise at associate with their products.

By the same token it is quite right to express distaste at Whole Foods for hawking products which are in essence utter rubbish simply because they are falsely enshrined with a health halo. In fact it maybe worse because people are more likely to associate WF as being an ethical company and trust that they will provide them products which will actively improve their health.

It is all very well saying caveat emptor (buyer beware) but there is a big power balance difference between consumers and a company of this size. They have a huge amount of resources to throw at marketing pitted against the collective intelligence of consumers which even at its highest falls for a large range of ploys to separate them from their money.

SusanL222

:ohwell: Nevermind..........

tigersword

OP quote starts here:
I see.

Well I have. I suggest you do so as well. I'm certain you will conclude it [homeopathy] is firmly somewhere between pseudoscience, outright science rejection, and magic.

I didnt know Whole Foods sold the stuff. I'm disturbed that they do.
OP quote ends here.


I've not read OP's article and only read this thread to here, but had to reply. IMHO ^^^this^^^ is a ridiculous statement! Disturbed that a store/Whole Foods sells homeopathic remedies?? Really?? I can agree that when you take the right remedy, it can certainly seem like magic. ............Meh..........sorry, I'm going to leave my reply there as I just realized I don't have the time or energy to try to put together the words that intelligently express MHO in a way that would make one iota of diff in this thread.

ETA: to show what I quoted as it didn't show as quoted.

No, homeopathy is a useless, potentially dangerous pseudoscience. It's also rather expensive, consider all you're buying is plain water. It's the ultimate snake oil.

jonnythan

I've not read OP's article and only read this thread to here, but had to reply. IMHO ^^^this^^^ is a ridiculous statement! Disturbed that a store/Whole Foods sells homeopathic remedies?? Really?? I can agree that when you take the right remedy, it can certainly seem like magic. ............Meh..........sorry, I'm going to leave my reply there as I just realized I don't have the time or energy to try to put together the words that intelligently express MHO in a way that would make one iota of diff in this thread.

It's importantt o understand that homeopathy isn't just folk or herbal remedies or traditional medicine. Here's a Wikipedia quote:


the underlying causes of disease were phenomena that he termed miasms, and that homeopathic remedies addressed these. The remedies are prepared by repeatedly diluting a chosen substance in alcohol or distilled water, followed by forceful striking on an elastic body. Dilution usually continues well past the point where no molecules of the original substance remain. Homeopaths select remedies by consulting reference books known as repertories, and by considering the totality of the patient's symptoms, personal traits, physical and psychological state, and life history.
The scientific community regards homeopathy as nonsense, quackery, or a sham, and homeopathic practice has been criticized as unethical. The axioms of homeopathy are long refuted and lack any biological plausibility. Although some clinical trials produce positive results, systematic reviews reveal that this is because of chance, flawed research methods, and reporting bias. The postulated mechanisms of action of homeopathic remedies are both scientifically implausible and physically impossible

jonnythan

I am a little surprised by some of the responses to this thread but then perhaps I shouldn't be.

It is quite right, in my view, to express distaste at McDonalds for being one of the biggest, if not the biggest, distributors of children's toys in the world because they want to capture consumers at the earliest age possible. It is quite right, in my view, to express distaste at Coca Cola at sponsoring sporting events so as to co-opt the positive experiences from exercise at associate with their products.

By the same token it is quite right to express distaste at Whole Foods for hawking products which are in essence utter rubbish simply because they are falsely enshrined with a health halo. In fact it maybe worse because people are more likely to associate WF as being an ethical company and trust that they will provide them products which will actively improve their health.

It is all very well saying caveat emptor (buyer beware) but there is a big power balance difference between consumers and a company of this size. They have a huge amount of resources to throw at marketing pitted against the collective intelligence of consumers which even at its highest falls for a large range of ploys to separate them from their money.

Thank you. This is a great post.

SusanL222

I've not read OP's article and only read this thread to here, but had to reply. IMHO ^^^this^^^ is a ridiculous statement! Disturbed that a store/Whole Foods sells homeopathic remedies?? Really?? I can agree that when you take the right remedy, it can certainly seem like magic. ............Meh..........sorry, I'm going to leave my reply there as I just realized I don't have the time or energy to try to put together the words that intelligently express MHO in a way that would make one iota of diff in this thread.

It's importantt o understand that homeopathy isn't just folk or herbal remedies or traditional medicine. Here's a Wikipedia quote:


the underlying causes of disease were phenomena that he termed miasms, and that homeopathic remedies addressed these. The remedies are prepared by repeatedly diluting a chosen substance in alcohol or distilled water, followed by forceful striking on an elastic body. Dilution usually continues well past the point where no molecules of the original substance remain. Homeopaths select remedies by consulting reference books known as repertories, and by considering the totality of the patient's symptoms, personal traits, physical and psychological state, and life history.
The scientific community regards homeopathy as nonsense, quackery, or a sham, and homeopathic practice has been criticized as unethical. The axioms of homeopathy are long refuted and lack any biological plausibility. Although some clinical trials produce positive results, systematic reviews reveal that this is because of chance, flawed research methods, and reporting bias. The postulated mechanisms of action of homeopathic remedies are both scientifically implausible and physically impossible

Thank you, I do understand how homeopathic solutions are prepared. I don't understand how they work, but I will simply say that i have had the experience of homeopathic remedies working for me and I appreciate that stores like Whole Foods and my local food co-operative sell them.

jonnythan

I don't understand how they work

Oh that part's easy: they don't. Homeopathy is 19th-century witchcraft. The only reason it has survived whereas chants and incantations have not is because the magic is imbued into water or sugar, which makes it available in a bottle or pill. People generally believe that bottles and pills contain some sort of substance or chemical that has some effect on the body. Homeopathic preparations literally don't have anything in them.