Whole Foods: the Temple of Pseudoscience.

Blue801

I think the internet is the true temple of pseudoscience. That's where the worship happens. Or maybe I just don't get out much.

ILiftHeavyAcrylics

The main thing I liked about the article was that it points out the hypocrisy of looking down on pseudoscience in some formats (like creationism) while ignoring it in other forms. We've all got our blind spots.

cwsreddy

Market positioning is about a lot more than advertisements. Store layouts, product selection, in store signage, etc.

you dont go to CVS because of the signage?

FlaxMilk

Market positioning is about a lot more than advertisements. Store layouts, product selection, in store signage, etc.

Aw, Jonny. You can't make fun of people who talk about big pharma and big food and then get uncomfortable about big WF. :drinker:

As someone who shops at WF, I agree that marketing is not just about advertising, and I still associate WF with ... food. There's a lot of it. It's huge, and there are sections I don't even bother with because I know they are filled with foods I can't eat. I don't see why their vitamin/homeopathy section is any different than anyone else's.

lisawinning4losing

I have noticed that Whole Foods has extremely low-priced wine.

Not as low priced as the two buck chuck you can get at Trader Joe's, which I actually think is pretty good.

cwsreddy

Market positioning is about a lot more than advertisements. Store layouts, product selection, in store signage, etc.

Aw, Jonny. You can't make fun of people who talk about big pharma and big food and then get uncomfortable about big WF. :drinker:

As someone who shops at WF, I agree that marketing is not just about advertising, and I still associate WF with ... food. There's a lot of it. It's huge, and there are sections I don't even bother with because I know they are filled with foods I can't eat. I don't see why their vitamin/homeopathy section is any different than anyone else's.

:drinker:

Blue801

The main thing I liked about the article was that it points out the hypocrisy of looking down on pseudoscience in some formats (like creationism) while ignoring it in other forms. We've all got our blind spots.

Yeah, he tried to draw that parallel and I didn't really buy it. Crazy religious folks making a whole museum to teach anti-science vs. corporation out to sell fad nutrition and pseudoscience products, didn't seem like they would demand the same response. Oddly enough I have the same response to both, *shrug... Sigh*. :noway: :yawn:

FlaxMilk

The main thing I liked about the article was that it points out the hypocrisy of looking down on pseudoscience in some formats (like creationism) while ignoring it in other forms. We've all got our blind spots.

I already forget the article, but my issue with comparing WF to creationism is that one is a business, filled with competing products to sell you stuff and make a profit. One is a belief system. I would argue that pretty much any religion is not scientifically provable in all tenants, but we have churches, temples, and places to buy religious items every-where. We send our kids to the schools. We have tax exemptions for them. Why are we worried about WF over GNC? Let the buyer beware.

jonnythan

Market positioning is about a lot more than advertisements. Store layouts, product selection, in store signage, etc.

you dont go to CVS because of the signage?

I don't go to CVS because I think a pharmacy has a certain duty to its customers and having a prominent homeopathic section violates that.

But I have no problem with going to WF.

jonnythan

Market positioning is about a lot more than advertisements. Store layouts, product selection, in store signage, etc.

Aw, Jonny. You can't make fun of people who talk about big pharma and big food and then get uncomfortable about big WF. :drinker:

As someone who shops at WF, I agree that marketing is not just about advertising, and I still associate WF with ... food. There's a lot of it. It's huge, and there are sections I don't even bother with because I know they are filled with foods I can't eat. I don't see why their vitamin/homeopathy section is any different than anyone else's.

I don't think I "make fun of people who talk about big pharma." There's a lot of unsavory stuff about pharmaceutical companies, from burying data to buying off physicians. I don't think I've ever made fun of people who talk about big pharma, so I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at here.

Also, not sure what "vitamin/homeopathy" section means either. Vitamins are not homeopathy. Homeopathy is magic - the literal idea is that the substance being sold contains nothing of note besides literal magic. And homeopathy is just one aspect of the pseudoscience and anti-science WF largely builds its brand on.

FlaxMilk

I don't think I "make fun of people who talk about big pharma." There's a lot of unsavory stuff about pharmaceutical companies, from burying data to buying off physicians. I don't think I've ever made fun of people who talk about big pharma, so I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at here.

Also, not sure what "vitamin/homeopathy" section means either. Vitamins are not homeopathy. Homeopathy is magic - the literal idea is that the substance being sold contains nothing of note besides literal magic. And homeopathy is just one aspect of the pseudoscience and anti-science WF largely builds its brand on.

Ok, forget big pharma and just leave big food in.

Whole Foods does not build a large part of its brand on anti-science. They have lots of vitamins and supplements and some homeopathy. Again, most of the store is food. Not antiscience and charms. I'm not interested in debating the details of homeopathy because I'm loathe to give my money to any product that hasn't been proven to work (whether Airborne or Rescue Remedy), but I'm not agreeing with homeopathy = literal magic. Whether or not you believe it works isn't the same as "I'm selling you magic."

jonnythan

I don't think I "make fun of people who talk about big pharma." There's a lot of unsavory stuff about pharmaceutical companies, from burying data to buying off physicians. I don't think I've ever made fun of people who talk about big pharma, so I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at here.

Also, not sure what "vitamin/homeopathy" section means either. Vitamins are not homeopathy. Homeopathy is magic - the literal idea is that the substance being sold contains nothing of note besides literal magic. And homeopathy is just one aspect of the pseudoscience and anti-science WF largely builds its brand on.

Ok, forget big pharma and just leave big food in.

Whole Foods does not build a large part of its brand on anti-science. They have lots of vitamins and supplements and some homeopathy. Again, most of the store is food. Not antiscience and charms. I'm not interested in debating the details of homeopathy because I'm loathe to give my money to any product that hasn't been proven to work (whether Airborne or Rescue Remedy), but I'm not agreeing with homeopathy = literal magic. Whether or not you believe it works isn't the same as "I'm selling you magic."

I'm not sure you quite understand homeopathy, but I don't want to turn this into a homeopathy debate.

cwsreddy

I don't think I "make fun of people who talk about big pharma." There's a lot of unsavory stuff about pharmaceutical companies, from burying data to buying off physicians. I don't think I've ever made fun of people who talk about big pharma, so I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at here.

Also, not sure what "vitamin/homeopathy" section means either. Vitamins are not homeopathy. Homeopathy is magic - the literal idea is that the substance being sold contains nothing of note besides literal magic. And homeopathy is just one aspect of the pseudoscience and anti-science WF largely builds its brand on.

Ok, forget big pharma and just leave big food in.

Whole Foods does not build a large part of its brand on anti-science. They have lots of vitamins and supplements and some homeopathy. Again, most of the store is food. Not antiscience and charms. I'm not interested in debating the details of homeopathy because I'm loathe to give my money to any product that hasn't been proven to work (whether Airborne or Rescue Remedy), but I'm not agreeing with homeopathy = literal magic. Whether or not you believe it works isn't the same as "I'm selling you magic."

I'm not sure you quite understand homeopathy, but I don't want to turn this into a homeopathy debate.

Isn't that exactly what you've done with this thread since homeopathy is the only issue you have with WF and CVS?

jonnythan

I don't think I "make fun of people who talk about big pharma." There's a lot of unsavory stuff about pharmaceutical companies, from burying data to buying off physicians. I don't think I've ever made fun of people who talk about big pharma, so I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at here.

Also, not sure what "vitamin/homeopathy" section means either. Vitamins are not homeopathy. Homeopathy is magic - the literal idea is that the substance being sold contains nothing of note besides literal magic. And homeopathy is just one aspect of the pseudoscience and anti-science WF largely builds its brand on.

Ok, forget big pharma and just leave big food in.

Whole Foods does not build a large part of its brand on anti-science. They have lots of vitamins and supplements and some homeopathy. Again, most of the store is food. Not antiscience and charms. I'm not interested in debating the details of homeopathy because I'm loathe to give my money to any product that hasn't been proven to work (whether Airborne or Rescue Remedy), but I'm not agreeing with homeopathy = literal magic. Whether or not you believe it works isn't the same as "I'm selling you magic."

I'm not sure you quite understand homeopathy, but I don't want to turn this into a homeopathy debate.

Isn't that exactly what you've done with this thread since homeopathy is the only issue you have with WF and CVS?

No because homeopathy isn't the only issue. It's the one I chose to use as an example with you because it was something that really can't be argued.

evileen99

The only time I was ever in a Whole Foods I walked by an employee giving a talk/seminar to about 10 people on the Master Cleanse and explaining why you had to use organic maple syrup and lemon juice to get the best results. That was enough for me to know that I didn't need to shop there

FlaxMilk

I'm not sure you quite understand homeopathy, but I don't want to turn this into a homeopathy debate.

I'm ok with my understanding of it. And while I don't trust it, there's a lot out there that I don't trust and isn't scientifically proven.

I actually find it a lot more misleading to imply that certain supplements can heal maladies than to suggest that certain extracts and essences can. Or even things like Shakeology, that have tiny amounts of the "superfoods." But the same liberties that allow people to worship pretty much anything and buy things like cigarettes extend to Whole Foods. Which I know you're not arguing, but what is the argument? Until drug stores eliminate all the products that aren't scientifically proven, what's the difference?

jonnythan

The only time I was ever in a Whole Foods I walked by an employee giving a talk/seminar to about 10 people on the Master Cleanse and explaining why you had to use organic maple syrup and lemon juice to get the best results. That was enough for me to know that I didn't need to shop there

This is another good example.

ILiftHeavyAcrylics

The main thing I liked about the article was that it points out the hypocrisy of looking down on pseudoscience in some formats (like creationism) while ignoring it in other forms. We've all got our blind spots.

I already forget the article, but my issue with comparing WF to creationism is that one is a business, filled with competing products to sell you stuff and make a profit. One is a belief system. I would argue that pretty much any religion is not scientifically provable in all tenants, but we have churches, temples, and places to buy religious items every-where. We send our kids to the schools. We have tax exemptions for them. Why are we worried about WF over GNC? Let the buyer beware.

I don't think it's quite so cut and dried.

For one thing, creationism (and religion in general) can be big business. For another I consider homeopathy to be the same as religion. It's a belief system.

I am a religious person, fwiw, but I do understand that my beliefs are beliefs are not science, which is something that I don't think I share with most practitioners of homeopathy.

But I don't disagree with you. There are lots of businesses that sell pseudoscience. The burden is on the buyer to understand what he/she is purchasing.

I kinda took that as the purpose of the article-- to make people aware of some of the products WF stocks.

cwsreddy

I don't think I "make fun of people who talk about big pharma." There's a lot of unsavory stuff about pharmaceutical companies, from burying data to buying off physicians. I don't think I've ever made fun of people who talk about big pharma, so I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at here.

Also, not sure what "vitamin/homeopathy" section means either. Vitamins are not homeopathy. Homeopathy is magic - the literal idea is that the substance being sold contains nothing of note besides literal magic. And homeopathy is just one aspect of the pseudoscience and anti-science WF largely builds its brand on.

Ok, forget big pharma and just leave big food in.

Whole Foods does not build a large part of its brand on anti-science. They have lots of vitamins and supplements and some homeopathy. Again, most of the store is food. Not antiscience and charms. I'm not interested in debating the details of homeopathy because I'm loathe to give my money to any product that hasn't been proven to work (whether Airborne or Rescue Remedy), but I'm not agreeing with homeopathy = literal magic. Whether or not you believe it works isn't the same as "I'm selling you magic."

I'm not sure you quite understand homeopathy, but I don't want to turn this into a homeopathy debate.

Isn't that exactly what you've done with this thread since homeopathy is the only issue you have with WF and CVS?

No because homeopathy isn't the only issue. It's the one I chose to use as an example with you because it was something that really can't be argued.

Well that's a bit of a cowardly tactic wouldn't you say?

OK so far in this thread you've said that homeopathy is pseudoscience, but that the homeopathy section does NOT keep you from going to Whole Foods, but DOES keep you from going to CVS because of a pharmacy's "inherent obligation" to the customer - nevermind that both are simply private businesses that can sell whatever they want.

So then if it isn't all about the homeopathy, what ELSE is it about Whole Foods that puts your panties in a twist?

FlaxMilk

The only time I was ever in a Whole Foods I walked by an employee giving a talk/seminar to about 10 people on the Master Cleanse and explaining why you had to use organic maple syrup and lemon juice to get the best results. That was enough for me to know that I didn't need to shop there

This is another good example.

What's the difference between that and ten salespeople mobbing me when I walk into a Vitamin World or GNC? Or the claims that beauty products make, for that matter?