Why "clean eating" is a myth

lisawinning4losing

Unless there is a reason, like "I really love Chalupas and still want to eat them regularly."

I don't know what you are talking about, because here in Mexico Chalupas are 100% clean/natural/whole foods and that is why I enjoy them and other botanas often.....yay !

How in the world is a chalupa a whole food? An apple is a whole food.

This is one aspect that I think confuses people. Grind corn and toast it to make a cup then fill with ingredients of your choice, normally recognizable like pork, chicken peppers, cilantro......so the argument is because the corn was ground, normally mortar and pestle it's no longer a whole food but some concoction that is somehow less than the sum of it's parts or something to that thought process.

I don't think most people have a problem with the process of grinding corn up and making a tortilla from it, but a tortilla is no longer a whole food. The corn is. A taco can be made from 100% natural, processed-by-hand ingredients but it's not a whole food.

And people lean on that definition to support the fact that the food is no longer considered clean because it's been processed, therefore for the most part nothing is clean, therefore clean has no definition ad nauseam. Not saying everyone thinks this way but I see it every time a thread talks about clean.

Technically, eating "clean" and eating "whole foods" are two different concepts, though often over-lapping. If you're growing or buying organic corn then grinding it up yourself using a mortar and pestle and adding nothing unnatural to it, just water and spices and things, I would say that's definitely clean eating. That's different then buying it from a store where it was produced in a factory using all kinds of additives, preservatives, fillers, etc, not to mention the corn itself which may have been grown with all kinds of pesticides, etc. Making it yourself is not the same as buying packaged, processed food. Whether or not a it's a "whole" food can still be debated because it's been ground up aka "processed" technically, but I don't see why it's not clean.

mank32

IN for anyone telling niner to shut up :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Ang108

[/quote]

Nutritionally speaking that isn't a whole food anymore... That's why I was perplexed. I had thought you were being sarcastic at first, but now I see you were not.
Just going to hide now.
[/quote]

Why do you think that ? Is it because none is whole in the sense of being in it's original state ? That confuses me, because whole foods in the field of nutrition does not mean that you have to eat things in their natural state, but that they are consumed from whole foods that are only " processed " ( processed as in grinding, chopping, cooking, baking etc and not as in making one thing out of another, adding chemicals to most often ensure long shelf life and more ) for immediate consumption. Usually the definition in the field of nutrition is that " whole food is minimally processed and always unrefined ".

TAsunder

I haven't waded through the posts in this thread so forgive me if this is already something that has been discussed.

There are some nuggets of truth in this article but it takes too strong of a position in some areas and ends up contradicting itself.

One of the first things it says is the notion that "There are good and bad foods, and you should only eat a small number of the bad foods to limit the damage" is "irrational, unscientific, and unhealthy."

But later in the article it says: "Consuming moderate amounts of sugar does not decrease insulin sensitivity or impair your ability to process glucose, as long as you maintain your weight and don’t over-eat."

It seems to be a contradiction. Semantically, I suppose you could argue that "Small amounts" doesn't mean "moderate amounts" so the point stands. But the implied meaning here is not really accurate. Insulin resistance seems like a pretty credible problem to me. On the other hand, I don't have immediate access to the journals he cites on that last point, so perhaps he has mis-stated them and the insulin resistence potential does NOT change if you eat too much sugar. I seriously doubt it, however.

Ang108

[/quote]

Nutritionally speaking that isn't a whole food anymore... That's why I was perplexed. I had thought you were being sarcastic at first, but now I see you were not.
Just going to hide now.
[/quote]

Maybe the fact that I am not a native speaker of English ( even though I got both my MAs in Nutritional Science from US Universities and that is where I learned those principles ) is the reason for my not explaining things well....maybe.
I learned that what I described is a " whole foods " based diet and I use the word to avoid the dreaded " clean eating " expression because I am sick and tired of the " I wash my hamburger and therefore I eat clean " gang and all those other inflexible members who do nothing but repeat the same baseless stuff over and over again without giving it any major thought. Maybe I need to use " whole foods based " in the future to make myself more clear.
In no way am I saying that this diet is better, except where personal choice and preference are concerned, but would like to make the point that often something that is considered junk in one country/culture/area or family is concerned more healthy ( I hope that is an acceptable expression...no sarcasm intended ) in another, because the basic ingredients are different , as it could possibly be the case with those Chalupitas....:o).
For example for me a certain type of pizza could be healthy/natural/whole food based if home made from all natural ingredients, while I would automatically assume that a pizza from a chain or frozen from a super market would not fall under the same category.

parkscs

Nutritionally speaking that isn't a whole food anymore... That's why I was perplexed. I had thought you were being sarcastic at first, but now I see you were not.
Just going to hide now.

Maybe the fact that I am not a native speaker of English ( even though I got both my MAs in Nutritional Science from US Universities and that is where I learned those principles ) is the reason for my not explaining things well....maybe.
I learned that what I described is a " whole foods " based diet and I use the word to avoid the dreaded " clean eating " expression because I am sick and tired of the " I wash my hamburger and therefore I eat clean " gang and all those other inflexible members who do nothing but repeat the same baseless stuff over and over again without giving it any major thought. Maybe I need to use " whole foods based " in the future to make myself more clear.
In no way am I saying that this diet is better, except where personal choice and preference are concerned, but would like to make the point that often something that is considered junk in one country/culture/area or family is concerned more healthy ( I hope that is an acceptable expression...no sarcasm intended ) in another, because the basic ingredients are different , as it could possibly be the case with those Chalupitas....:o).
For example for me a certain type of pizza could be healthy/natural/whole food based if home made from all natural ingredients, while I would automatically assume that a pizza from a chain or frozen from a super market would not fall under the same category.

Perhaps the difference between a local taqueria that prepares butterflied chicken on the grill versus taco bell where they squeeze the "meat" (is it even 100% meat these days?) out of a bag?

jonnythan

Nutritionally speaking that isn't a whole food anymore... That's why I was perplexed. I had thought you were being sarcastic at first, but now I see you were not.
Just going to hide now.

Maybe the fact that I am not a native speaker of English ( even though I got both my MAs in Nutritional Science from US Universities and that is where I learned those principles ) is the reason for my not explaining things well....maybe.
I learned that what I described is a " whole foods " based diet and I use the word to avoid the dreaded " clean eating " expression because I am sick and tired of the " I wash my hamburger and therefore I eat clean " gang and all those other inflexible members who do nothing but repeat the same baseless stuff over and over again without giving it any major thought. Maybe I need to use " whole foods based " in the future to make myself more clear.
In no way am I saying that this diet is better, except where personal choice and preference are concerned, but would like to make the point that often something that is considered junk in one country/culture/area or family is concerned more healthy ( I hope that is an acceptable expression...no sarcasm intended ) in another, because the basic ingredients are different , as it could possibly be the case with those Chalupitas....:o).
For example for me a certain type of pizza could be healthy/natural/whole food based if home made from all natural ingredients, while I would automatically assume that a pizza from a chain or frozen from a super market would not fall under the same category.

Perhaps the difference between a local taqueria that prepares butterflied chicken on the grill versus taco bell where they squeeze the "meat" (is it even 100% meat these days?) out of a bag?

The chicken and steak are just chicken and steak with seasoning. The "taco meat" is mostly ground beef and seasoning with a little bit (like 5%) of oats to help it retain moisture and improve the texture.

J72FIT

http://evidencemag.com/clean-eating/

If you're really interested in the info, then read the article. If you want to debate the info, read the article first then debate the information you disagree with, BUT be sure to have a reference to support your stance.
From what I've read and discovered from my time in the fitness industry, I find this article to be quite accurate when it comes to "clean eating" and it being a myth, especially when lots of information on eating is taken out of context.

A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

I just find the term "clean" to be meaningless in and of itself. Nutrient dense and calorie dense are far useful IMO.

Roadie2000

If I read that right, the guy who wrote that is 18 and doesn't appear to have much of an education in nutrition or anything like that, just an eating disorder. And he admits he has a tendency to take things to extremes. He ate too little and exercised too much, I don't see what that really has to do with clean eating.

He made some valid arguments but I think the article is misleading. Junk food is not a food group. You don't need junk food to achieve a balanced, healthy diet. Yes, you can eat a balanced, healthy diet and still eat some junk food. I don't need to drink Diet Coke and Cheetos to be healthy. Eating "clean" is not going to harm your body, but avoiding certain food groups and depriving your body of certain nutrients could. A lot of junk food is not actually "food". It is a bunch of substances put together to make something we might ingest. Have you looked at the ingredients of the things you put in your mouth? I figure if I can't pronounce it, it's probably not a necessity of my diet.

I'm sorry but I will eat as clean or as unclean as I want and will choose not to take my advice from any 18 year old with a computer.

Blue801

Nutritionally speaking that isn't a whole food anymore... That's why I was perplexed. I had thought you were being sarcastic at first, but now I see you were not.
Just going to hide now.

Why do you think that ? Is it because none is whole in the sense of being in it's original state ? That confuses me, because whole foods in the field of nutrition does not mean that you have to eat things in their natural state, but that they are consumed from whole foods that are only " processed " ( processed as in grinding, chopping, cooking, baking etc and not as in making one thing out of another, adding chemicals to most often ensure long shelf life and more ) for immediate consumption. Usually the definition in the field of nutrition is that " whole food is minimally processed and always unrefined ".

Just meaning something like cheese isn't exactly a "whole food" and it was just one of many ingredients. I guess whenever one says "minimally processed" is can be very open to interpretation.

jonnythan

If I read that right, the guy who wrote that is 18 and doesn't appear to have much of an education in nutrition or anything like that, just an eating disorder. And he admits he has a tendency to take things to extremes. He ate too little and exercised too much, I don't see what that really has to do with clean eating.

He made some valid arguments but I think the article is misleading. Junk food is not a food group. You don't need junk food to achieve a balanced, healthy diet. Yes, you can eat a balanced, healthy diet and still eat some junk food. I don't need to drink Diet Coke and Cheetos to be healthy. Eating "clean" is not going to harm your body, but avoiding certain food groups and depriving your body of certain nutrients could. A lot of junk food is not actually "food". It is a bunch of substances put together to make something we might ingest. Have you looked at the ingredients of the things you put in your mouth? I figure if I can't pronounce it, it's probably not a necessity of my diet.

I'm sorry but I will eat as clean or as unclean as I want and will choose not to take my advice from any 18 year old with a computer.

There exist 18 year olds who are smarter, more educated, and more successful than I. I am OK with that fact. Not everyone is, I guess.

_John_

There exist 18 year olds who are smarter, more educated, and more successful than I. I am OK with that fact. Not everyone is, I guess.

yeah, well, I bet I can bench press more than all of them...

Ang108

Unless there is a reason, like "I really love Chalupas and still want to eat them regularly."

I don't know what you are talking about, because here in Mexico Chalupas are 100% clean/natural/whole foods and that is why I enjoy them and other botanas often.....yay !

How in the world is a chalupa a whole food? An apple is a whole food.

This is one aspect that I think confuses people. Grind corn and toast it to make a cup then fill with ingredients of your choice, normally recognizable like pork, chicken peppers, cilantro......so the argument is because the corn was ground, normally mortar and pestle it's no longer a whole food but some concoction that is somehow less than the sum of it's parts or something to that thought process.

I don't think most people have a problem with the process of grinding corn up and making a tortilla from it, but a tortilla is no longer a whole food. The corn is. A taco can be made from 100% natural, processed-by-hand ingredients but it's not a whole food.

And people lean on that definition to support the fact that the food is no longer considered clean because it's been processed, therefore for the most part nothing is clean, therefore clean has no definition ad nauseam. Not saying everyone thinks this way but I see it every time a thread talks about clean.

Technically, eating "clean" and eating "whole foods" are two different concepts, though often over-lapping. If you're growing or buying organic corn then grinding it up yourself using a mortar and pestle and adding nothing unnatural to it, just water and spices and things, I would say that's definitely clean eating. That's different then buying it from a store where it was produced in a factory using all kinds of additives, preservatives, fillers, etc, not to mention the corn itself which may have been grown with all kinds of pesticides, etc. Making it yourself is not the same as buying packaged, processed food. Whether or not a it's a "whole" food can still be debated because it's been ground up aka "processed" technically, but I don't see why it's not clean.

I am sure that you know the difference between " process " and " process " as far as food is concerned.. One is the action of chipping, slicing, peeling, grinding, salting, kneading,bloiling, baking, drying etc to get a food ready for human consumption by being prepared in conventional ways.
The other is an often chemical process that allows the foods to be transported over long distances ( 1200 miles in the US on statistical average for each food item ), being kept from spoiling, ensuring an absurdely long shelf life ( I wonder what is in the corn bread jalapeño mix that a friends brought from the US that does not expire until October 2016 ? ), plus easy preparation by often just heating, freezing or adding an atypical ingredient ( like water only to a cake mix ).
I am sure you know what most people mean with " processed food " and it's not chopping and grinding for example.
I really enjoyed our exchange, but would prefer to just step back from the thread, if we are going to nitpick expressions. I am interested in hearing the opinions of others, but have not much time for useless back & forth.....unless of course I misunderstood you completely.

SunofaBeach14

My issue with it is that it is vague and provides little in the way of specific guidance on what one should eat. That, and there is little to no science behind enough of the claims (with a good measure of hocus pockus in much of them) to again make it worthless as a method to guide one's choices. As a result, these debates usually end up in arguments over whether this food or that is actually "clean." It reminds me of arguments over what is "Christian" or not.

ksuh999

I am sure that you know the difference between " process " and " process " as far as food is concerned.. One is the action of chipping, slicing, peeling, grinding, salting, kneading,bloiling, baking, drying etc to get a food ready for human consumption by being prepared in conventional ways.
The other is an often chemical process that allows the foods to be transported over long distances ( 1200 miles in the US on statistical average for each food item ), being kept from spoiling, ensuring an absurdely long shelf life ( I wonder what is in the corn bread jalapeño mix that a friends brought from the US that does not expire until October 2016 ? ), plus easy preparation by often just heating, freezing or adding an atypical ingredient ( like water only to a cake mix ).
I am sure you know what most people mean with " processed food " and it's not chopping and grinding for example.
I really enjoyed our exchange, but would prefer to just step back from the thread, if we are going to nitpick expressions. I am interested in hearing the opinions of others, but have not much time for useless back & forth.....unless of course I misunderstood you completely.

Keeping things dry keeps food from spoiling.

Adding salt, which is a chemical, extends the life of meat greatly (jerky). It's processed! Or not?

Water only to a cake mix? So yeah, they just dried stuff and presto, that's how they make it water only. So according to you it's not processed.

QuietBloom

The part about "health nuts" getting enough vitamin D from "nutrient dense foods" and "adequate sun exposure" is completely inaccurate. Unless you're at 40% body exposure (think one piece swim suit) for 20 min daily during the high hours of the sun with no sunscreen, you aren't getting enough. And I don't know one person that walks around in a swimsuit in the Midwest in the middle of winter. Always supplement for adequate vitamin D levels and don't forget to get your 25(OH)D test annually. A level of over 50 ng/ml is ideal.

While I don't disagree with that some places lack UV exposure due to cloud cover or weather, I think that the 20 minutes you mentioned may be off a little. Still it's important to get enough vitamin D daily regardless of how you obtain it.

It has been suggested by some vitamin D researchers, for example, that approximately 5–30 minutes of sun exposure between 10 AM and 3 PM at least twice a week to the face, arms, legs, or back without sunscreen usually lead to sufficient vitamin D synthesis

http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/VitaminD-HealthProfessional/

Glad I live in CA

A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

Indeed! I run 3 to 4 times a week during peak sun hours. No sunscreen on my arms and legs and I sometimes go without it on my face too. *shock*

magerum

In to catch up later...maybe.

Blue801

I am sure that you know the difference between " process " and " process " as far as food is concerned.. One is the action of chipping, slicing, peeling, grinding, salting, kneading,bloiling, baking, drying etc to get a food ready for human consumption by being prepared in conventional ways.
The other is an often chemical process that allows the foods to be transported over long distances ( 1200 miles in the US on statistical average for each food item ), being kept from spoiling, ensuring an absurdely long shelf life ( I wonder what is in the corn bread jalapeño mix that a friends brought from the US that does not expire until October 2016 ? ), plus easy preparation by often just heating, freezing or adding an atypical ingredient ( like water only to a cake mix ).
I am sure you know what most people mean with " processed food " and it's not chopping and grinding for example.
I really enjoyed our exchange, but would prefer to just step back from the thread, if we are going to nitpick expressions. I am interested in hearing the opinions of others, but have not much time for useless back & forth.....unless of course I misunderstood you completely.

I believe you have been misinformed and it has narrowed your understanding of what constitutes processed foods. Here is a wiki definition that may clear things up.
"Food processing is the transformation of raw ingredients into food, or of food into other forms. Food processing typically takes clean, harvested crops or butchered animal products and uses these to produce attractive, marketable and often long shelf-life food products."
Simply washing, cutting, and bagging salad greens would provide a "minimally processed" food.

Ang108

I am sure that you know the difference between " process " and " process " as far as food is concerned.. One is the action of chipping, slicing, peeling, grinding, salting, kneading,bloiling, baking, drying etc to get a food ready for human consumption by being prepared in conventional ways.
The other is an often chemical process that allows the foods to be transported over long distances ( 1200 miles in the US on statistical average for each food item ), being kept from spoiling, ensuring an absurdely long shelf life ( I wonder what is in the corn bread jalapeño mix that a friends brought from the US that does not expire until October 2016 ? ), plus easy preparation by often just heating, freezing or adding an atypical ingredient ( like water only to a cake mix ).
I am sure you know what most people mean with " processed food " and it's not chopping and grinding for example.
I really enjoyed our exchange, but would prefer to just step back from the thread, if we are going to nitpick expressions. I am interested in hearing the opinions of others, but have not much time for useless back & forth.....unless of course I misunderstood you completely.

Keeping things dry keeps food from spoiling.

Adding salt, which is a chemical, extends the life of meat greatly (jerky). It's processed! Or not?

Water only to a cake mix? So yeah, they just dried stuff and presto, that's how they make it water only. So according to you it's not processed.

That's what I meant....nitpicking over a term that while not 100% defined does have an agreed upon meaning within many developed cultures defined through usage.
If I say I don't eat processed food, do you seriously think that when I eat a salad I bite in a whole head of lettuce, or munch on a whole unpeeled cucumber and eat a carrot the way it comes out of the ground, because after all washing the carrot, peeling the cucumber and pulling the lettuce into bite sized pieces would mean it is " processed " ? Or does my statement by generally accepted definition mean that I don't eat Rice-a-roni, Hamburger Helper or bottled dressing on my salad ? In which country do you think that as far as processing in concerned these two are the same ?
And if you look at commercial jerky or cake mix, they did a lot more than just " dry" the stuff.
It seems to be really important that you are right and I concede that all this is indeed " processing " even though one is for immediate food preparation and the other ( commonly accepted term ) for food altering for other purposes than consumption......in a kind of nitpicking way.

Ang108

I am sure that you know the difference between " process " and " process " as far as food is concerned.. One is the action of chipping, slicing, peeling, grinding, salting, kneading,bloiling, baking, drying etc to get a food ready for human consumption by being prepared in conventional ways.
The other is an often chemical process that allows the foods to be transported over long distances ( 1200 miles in the US on statistical average for each food item ), being kept from spoiling, ensuring an absurdely long shelf life ( I wonder what is in the corn bread jalapeño mix that a friends brought from the US that does not expire until October 2016 ? ), plus easy preparation by often just heating, freezing or adding an atypical ingredient ( like water only to a cake mix ).
I am sure you know what most people mean with " processed food " and it's not chopping and grinding for example.
I really enjoyed our exchange, but would prefer to just step back from the thread, if we are going to nitpick expressions. I am interested in hearing the opinions of others, but have not much time for useless back & forth.....unless of course I misunderstood you completely.

I believe you have been misinformed and it has narrowed your understanding of what constitutes processed foods. Here is a wiki definition that may clear things up.
"Food processing is the transformation of raw ingredients into food, or of food into other forms. Food processing typically takes clean, harvested crops or butchered animal products and uses these to produce attractive, marketable and often long shelf-life food products."
Simply washing, cutting, and bagging salad greens would provide a "minimally processed" food.

Isn't that what I said at least in one of my several posts ?