Why "clean eating" is a myth
Replies
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Are the veggies in my Mcdonalds salads, and Panda express mixed veggies considered veggies, or are they, magically fortified?
They're just veggies, as far as I'm concerned. I dunno if some people might consider McDonald's tomatoes, or Panda Express broccoli, to be unclean or something. That's not really my bag.
Nor mine. In my opinion, I eat an adequate amount of veggies and fruits.
how much iron do you get from your veggies and fruit?0 -
fallacious. correlation and all that.
Oh? How so?
Your n=1 study doesn't establish much. I guess the claim would be that you would be EVEN HEALTHIER if you ate more whole foods and less fortified foods? I think that's doubtful if you've been getting sufficient nutrient intake. I don't really keep a close eye on your diary so I couldn't say
Doesnt negate that my health markers are improving, despite my incredibly "unclean" diet, which was my point.
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I eat mostly unadulterated foods, no sugar or added salt, no dairy other than a daily dose of greek yogurt, no grains except a small serving of whole wheat pasta, no junk food or most processed crap (especially if it's "fortified"). Maybe because of what I read. Maybe because I have a sensitive body that thrives better on non-starchy plant food, eggs, nuts, seeds, fresh spices & herbs, olive and peanut oil, wild seasonal honey, and the occasional mini-slab of fish or meat, and feels bloated and dead on sweets and sugars, salts, sauces, starches and grains, junk food, dairy, soy, modern foods. Clean food simply means unadulterated and processed. The rest is just perception0
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I see. So they might have different forms of magnesium and one is more bioavailable than the fortified one. So tomato paste from a can with no additives is the same as a tomato picked right off the vine then? Same stuff right?
Pretty much, yeah. I guess some may claim that the canning process does something bad or destroys some nutrients or something but I don't think that's worth worrying about.0 -
Simply eat how YOU interpret to be clean , dont obsess, and be healthy .0
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Doesnt negate that my health markers are improving, despite my incredibly "unclean" diet, which was my point.
Yeah I'm with you there. I've posted my lipid profile over the years a few times, you may have seen it.0 -
Really? How bizarre! Where does this idea come from. I'd love to read a study that culminated in that conclusion. Can you point me in the right direction? I'm noob.2) I'm not talking about the foods as a whole, I'm talking about the comparative nutrients from the two different sources, which in my book are going to be more bioavailable and easily absorbed in the whole food vs the processed enriched fortified food.
He's right, to an extent. There are many vitamins and minerals and other substances in "whole" foods that are far more bioavailable in that form than from a supplement or fortified food. For example, many foods are fortified with magnesium oxide, which has very low bioavailability. The magnesium naturally found in many foods is more readily absorbed. Vitamin A also comes in many forms, and some of the most bioavailable forms are found naturally in foods whereas some forms used to fortify foods are much less so.
So you can't just count up your vitamin A intake in terms of %RDA and call it equivalent whether it came from a Pop Tart or carrot.
I see. So they might have different forms of magnesium and one is more bioavailable than the fortified one. So tomato paste from a can with no additives is the same as a tomato picked right off the vine then? Same stuff right?
really depends on a lot of factors like how long the canned tomato has been sitting on the shelf. even fresh squeezed juices are said to lose a large % of their nutrients if refrigerated for a day.
if you don't care about that stuff you don't care and that's fine, but I'd still prefer to have FRESH produce over canned. just personal preference.0 -
fallacious. correlation and all that.
Oh? How so?
Your n=1 study doesn't establish much. I guess the claim would be that you would be EVEN HEALTHIER if you ate more whole foods and less fortified foods? I think that's doubtful if you've been getting sufficient nutrient intake. I don't really keep a close eye on your diary so I couldn't say
Doesnt negate that my health markers are improving, despite my incredibly "unclean" diet, which was my point.
health markers improve with weight loss and weight loss is calorie in/calorie out.
has nothing to do with nutrition.0 -
Are the veggies in my Mcdonalds salads, and Panda express mixed veggies considered veggies, or are they, magically fortified?
They're just veggies, as far as I'm concerned. I dunno if some people might consider McDonald's tomatoes, or Panda Express broccoli, to be unclean or something. That's not really my bag.
Nor mine. In my opinion, I eat an adequate amount of veggies and fruits.
how much iron do you get from your veggies and fruit?
Well, I eat boiled eggs and spinach nearly daily, and have recently started including more beans, so I assume that I am getting enough. Though, I admittedly do not pay much attention to it.0 -
Doesnt negate that my health markers are improving, despite my incredibly "unclean" diet, which was my point.
Yeah I'm with you there. I've posted my lipid profile over the years a few times, you may have seen it.
I have. It helped me to stop feeling guilty about eating fast food so often when traveling.0 -
fallacious. correlation and all that.
Oh? How so?
Your n=1 study doesn't establish much. I guess the claim would be that you would be EVEN HEALTHIER if you ate more whole foods and less fortified foods? I think that's doubtful if you've been getting sufficient nutrient intake. I don't really keep a close eye on your diary so I couldn't say
Doesnt negate that my health markers are improving, despite my incredibly "unclean" diet, which was my point.
health markers improve with weight loss and weight loss is calorie in/calorie out.
has nothing to do with nutrition.
Then how do you define "healthy" as it relates to an individual? Those health markers also improve with exercise, and is often the key component.0 -
Are the veggies in my Mcdonalds salads, and Panda express mixed veggies considered veggies, or are they, magically fortified?
They're just veggies, as far as I'm concerned. I dunno if some people might consider McDonald's tomatoes, or Panda Express broccoli, to be unclean or something. That's not really my bag.
Nor mine. In my opinion, I eat an adequate amount of veggies and fruits.
how much iron do you get from your veggies and fruit?
Well, I eat boiled eggs and spinach nearly daily, and have recently started including more beans, so I assume that I am getting enough. Though, I admittedly do not pay much attention to it.
Haha I'm sure you're fine, and just from that if that's a decent cross section of your intake I'm sure you're doing fine. Most people don't want to be super anal about this stuff and I don't blame them, and it's fine.
I just wanna live forever :P0 -
I'm curious about why you are asking about his iron from the fruits and veggies. As he eats meat, isn't his iron intake from fruits and veggies almost irrelevant?
Genuinely curious, in the non-fakely innocent way.0 -
Being thin doesn't automatically mean someone is healthy...they're just more likely to befallacious. correlation and all that.
Oh? How so?
Your n=1 study doesn't establish much. I guess the claim would be that you would be EVEN HEALTHIER if you ate more whole foods and less fortified foods? I think that's doubtful if you've been getting sufficient nutrient intake. I don't really keep a close eye on your diary so I couldn't say
Doesnt negate that my health markers are improving, despite my incredibly "unclean" diet, which was my point.
health markers improve with weight loss and weight loss is calorie in/calorie out.
has nothing to do with nutrition.0 -
fallacious. correlation and all that.
Oh? How so?
Your n=1 study doesn't establish much. I guess the claim would be that you would be EVEN HEALTHIER if you ate more whole foods and less fortified foods? I think that's doubtful if you've been getting sufficient nutrient intake. I don't really keep a close eye on your diary so I couldn't say
Doesnt negate that my health markers are improving, despite my incredibly "unclean" diet, which was my point.
health markers improve with weight loss and weight loss is calorie in/calorie out.
has nothing to do with nutrition.
Then how do you define "healthy" as it relates to an individual? Those health markers also improve with exercise, and is often the key component.
it's entirely possible they'd improve more drastically, though since we all respond to nutrients slightly differently, clearly I can't say that for sure.
I just like to play the odds. And odds are I'll be "healthier" long-term if I eat primarily fresh whole foods. Again, imo.0 -
I'm curious about why you are asking about his iron from the fruits and veggies. As he eats meat, isn't his iron intake from fruits and veggies almost irrelevant?
Genuinely curious, in the non-fakely innocent way.
I -believe- that red meat has a lot of iron, but I dont eat much red meat. I usually go the chicken route.
And now I want steak.0 -
Then how do you define "healthy" as it relates to an individual? Those health markers also improve with exercise, and is often the key component.
To add fuel to why N=1 isn't that meaningful, I have to add that my weight has increased over the last couple of years, as my level of activity has been dramatically decreased, and my blood results are as good as they were 6 years ago. My energy output is very different but my diet is pretty much identical.0 -
I'm curious about why you are asking about his iron from the fruits and veggies. As he eats meat, isn't his iron intake from fruits and veggies almost irrelevant?
Genuinely curious, in the non-fakely innocent way.
It was just an example since jonny claimed you can get most of your vitamin and mineral requirements from fruits and veggies which is not accurate. 0 -
I'm curious about why you are asking about his iron from the fruits and veggies. As he eats meat, isn't his iron intake from fruits and veggies almost irrelevant?
Genuinely curious, in the non-fakely innocent way.
It was just an example since jonny claimed you can get most of your vitamin and mineral requirements from fruits and veggies which is not accurate.
Most and all are two different things.
You can get most of your vitamin and mineral requirements from fruits and veggies. Not all. For example, B12 is basically impossible to come by in sufficient quantities in fruits and veggies. Iron is difficult but not impossible.0 -
I -believe- that red meat has a lot of iron, but I dont eat much red meat. I usually go the chicken route.
And now I want steak.
Ah I see. I know next to nothing about meat. All I really know is that iron in plant products is less easily absorbed, can be helped by eating Vitamin C with the iron source, and as my levels are fine and supplements cause constipation, I leave well enough alone. 0 -
Then how do you define "healthy" as it relates to an individual? Those health markers also improve with exercise, and is often the key component.
To add fuel to why N=1 isn't that meaningful, I have to add that my weight has increased over the last couple of years, as my level of activity has been dramatically decreased, and my blood results are as good as they were 6 years ago. My energy output is very different but my diet is pretty much identical.
That is very interesting. I would have expected your markers to slowly creep upward.0 -
I'm curious about why you are asking about his iron from the fruits and veggies. As he eats meat, isn't his iron intake from fruits and veggies almost irrelevant?
Genuinely curious, in the non-fakely innocent way.
It was just an example since jonny claimed you can get most of your vitamin and mineral requirements from fruits and veggies which is not accurate.
Most and all are two different things.
You can get most of your vitamin and mineral requirements from fruits and veggies. Not all. For example, B12 is basically impossible to come by in sufficient quantities in fruits and veggies. Iron is difficult but not impossible.
that's a helluva lot of kale. :P0 -
THANK YOU. I've been saying this for years.
Though I DO believe artificial sweeteners affect the body in a negative way no matter how much/little is used, I ALSO don't believe anything artificial should be consumed by humans. However, 80% (or so) of "food" produced in America contains some form of artificial ingredient (or is too processed to be recognized as food), so my argument would throw our nation's economy into ruins.0 -
Then how do you define "healthy" as it relates to an individual? Those health markers also improve with exercise, and is often the key component.
To add fuel to why N=1 isn't that meaningful, I have to add that my weight has increased over the last couple of years, as my level of activity has been dramatically decreased, and my blood results are as good as they were 6 years ago. My energy output is very different but my diet is pretty much identical.
That is very interesting. I would have expected your markers to slowly creep upward.
weight and health are correlated, there is no causation involved until you get to the obese level. someone who is 20 pounds overweight may have significantly better health markers than someone who is at their ideal weight. SO many factors are involved.0 -
That is very interesting. I would have expected your markers to slowly creep upward.
I had actually hoped they would. There isn't much research done, but low cholesterol is correlated with some anxiety. As I get no real dietary cholesterol as a vegan, I think I'm screwed on this one.0 -
I have tried doing the fairly 'clean' thing in the past.
With my significantly-less clean BUT more educated approach now I am stronger and fitter while generally putting less effort in.
On the "people need simple" - unfortunately the very people that need "simple" are the ones that lap up bad information or take good information and use it badly.
Thus the person I met looking at various cream options and worrying about the amount of sugar they had in - not understanding that milk it's self has a fair bit of sugar and the sugar really isn't the massive devil Lustig would like to sell his latest work on.0 -
Wanted to remind everyone that it's great to have a discussion and have opposing views. This is how we learn and improve as community, but we don't need name calling or attacks as it violates the below rule.
1. No Attacks or Insults and No Reciprocation
a) Do not attack, mock, or otherwise insult others. You can respectfully disagree with the message or topic, but you cannot attack the messenger. This includes attacks against the user’s spelling or command of written English, or belittling a user for posting a duplicate topic.
b) If you are attacked by another user, and you reciprocate, you will also be subject to the same consequences. Defending yourself or a friend is not an excuse! Do not take matters into your own hands – instead, use the Report Post link to report an attack and we will be happy to handle the situation for you.0 -
Evidence I've seen also suggests that physical fitness and not being obese are more important than what you eat in most cases.
You've never heard of a runner dying of a heart attack or a former athlete dying of a heart attack or a triathlete developing cancer at a young age? I can keep going.
Weight =/= Fitness =/= Health
There's a reason they are three separate words.
And genetics is a cause for many young people having health issues (It's the same reason why I have higher LDL's than most. Both my mother and father have higher LDLs ). IMO, health is determined by many factors: genetics, body composition (not weight) and over fitness level/exercise.
This issue with these discussion is we don't look at health holistically. Many people, will try to correlate one particular part of someones diet and link it to cancer. When in reality, family history, medications, fitness and diet all have to be considered. My wife was in an out of hospitals for 3 years with a variety of health issues. One of the common themes I keep hearing is they are starting to link more health issues to family history.0 -
Put it this way. Does one have to eat only unprocessed clean foods to be healthy or obtain the nutrients they need for a day? Answer is more than likely no.
Well, that's a bit extreme. I do believe in whole food eating, but I don't believe lots of what religion touts as truth. I don't think that anyone that does IIFYM or even any other eating lifestyle will discount that eating whole foods isn't advantageous when it comes to nutrient density. But likening that to believing in god?I'm not religious but my Dad once told me that even if there's a 99.999999999% chance there's no God and no heaven, it is STILL in your best interest to be religious in the OFF CHANCE they do exist, because if they don't then I'm no worse off - but if I refuse to acknowledge God's existence and it turns out he's real... welp. I'm ****ed.
Same thing with food.
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Analogies aren't your strong point huh?
Now having to believe in a religion because there maybe a .000000001% chance that it's true? I would then have to adhere to what religion believes about homosexuality, pre marital sex, same sex marriage, pro choice, etc.
Sorry, but not going to "convert" just because of that chance. I'll take the odds. Just like the odds I'll take against "clean" eating.
Better?
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
No.
Way.0
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