Why "clean eating" is a myth
Replies
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You will live a lot longer eating Pop-tarts than you will eating cauliflower.
as your sole source of calories I could not agree more with this statement. Fortified cereal would be one of the better "sole calorie source" foods in the world today in the same vein of thinking.
Especially if you added milk.
A bowl of modern fortified cereal and milk is pretty darn close to a complete diet in terms of sustaining life long-term.
'twould be toxic for me to try to sustain life on fortified cereal. It would result in Diabetes, Arthritis, Cirrhosis, cardiomyopathy, testicular failure ....
All because of one stupid little mutation ...
What mutation is that?
The so-called HFE Gene .. Short Story, I absorb 5x more Iron from food than normal people do. The problem is that the iron starts to collect in the pancreas, liver, joints ...
I'd punch a baby for a bowl of frosted mini wheats ...0 -
Oh I am glad that this discussion reopened!0
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Most people don't know what does work, which is why they check the forums out. And why it's good to discuss information so they can make a decision they believe they can do.Do whatever works for you.
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And no matter what you eat, or how much of it, or how much you work out, guess what's going to happen to you anyway?
lies.
um.... lol... avoidance?0 -
This is the next post I see from him right after.
Exactly. When people give testimonials, lots of details to improving their health gets left out. Watch any weight loss infomercial and they tout the program they are selling, then have people give testimonials. And practically everyone of them attribute it to the program. They don't include things like:Missed that that reply was to my post.
Yes, it seems many seem to presume that there is a direct relationship between food and all sorts of nastiness.
If someone changes what they are eating and get better, it so often seems it MUST be their change in diet.
Even when there's a whole load of other factors at play; before and after.
So, also illness =/= dirty eating.
There are so, so many other factors to consider and it's rare these are given near the detail they deserve.
I reduced my calorie intake
I ensured that I got in my correct macro/micro nutrients
I exercised to improve my health and fitness (if it's from a diet only site like Nutrisystem for example)
I got enough sleep/rest
I stopped risk behavior (smoking/drugs etc.)
I reduced my stress
I proactively improved on my personal life
I increased my N.E.A.T. by taking stairs instead of the elevator
I strategically abstained from food, drugs, chemicals, etc. that cause me issues (rash, gout, GERD, etc)
I worked on living inside a cleaner environment in my home (yes this can actually help)
So let's say someone does all of them. If they eliminated just one of them, would the outcome be a bit different? Maybe (smoking would still definitely be more harmful), maybe not (not taking the stairs wouldn't significantly make a huge difference unless they were climbing a lot of stories each day).
So yes, it's not just about eating and food.
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strangely the same poster you quoted mentioned in his next post that it's mostly about eating and food.
Sounds more to me like he believes that genetics supercedes diet. Guess I need confirmation from him to clear that up.Do you have any evidence that diet is second to genetics?
That's not the impression I've got,but I've not had access to enough raw/reasonably raw data to analyse decently myself.
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Are you just fighting with him, or do you want an answer? See my post, top of the previous page. It's very hard to do anything about your genetics. Your diet, by comparison is easy. I'm sorry that didn't satisfy your desire to trade jabs with someone else. But it makes no difference which supersedes which. One is actionable and one is not. If there's evidence that a diet change can have a significant impact, there's no reason not to do it - because you can do it.
You could say it this way:And why it's good to discuss information so they can make a decision they believe they can do.0 -
LOL, that was hard for me too!!!! I just use turkey bacon now :laugh:
that's not bacon.0 -
LOL, that was hard for me too!!!! I just use turkey bacon now :laugh:
that's not bacon.
I'm pretty sure it's heresy to even imply such a thing. There is no side pork on a turkey.0 -
Any food that has calories can technically be bad for you — if consumed in excess.
People get clean eating and weight loss confused. A calorie is a calorie, is a calorie. I say this til I am blue in the face. A calorie is a unit of energy. It is not a fat calorie, a protein calorie, a carb calorie. It is a unit of ENERGY.
I personally try to avoid processed foods (for the most part) and will go whole grain/wheat/meal over white, just because that's how I like to eat. Eating clean at X calories a day will make you lose the same amount of weight as eating X calories a day of 'junk' food. It's science, bro.
People need to stop confusing what a calorie is and what nutrition is, and how that applies to weight loss.
^^^^This. Well said. Nothing further needed.
Well..... If you apply this solely to weightloss (which might include muscle, fat, water.....)
If you apply it healthy fuel for your body's cells. I'll take "clean" unprocessed every time.
I am my own lab experiment. I excluded processed food and reintroduced one at a time and recorded the effects on my body and mind. I now eat hardly any at all and my whole life is better! And it's sustainable. This year I'm growing my own organic veg and might get some chickens for my garden....0 -
And no matter what you eat, or how much of it, or how much you work out, guess what's going to happen to you anyway?
lies.
um.... lol... avoidance?
um... lol... sense of humor?0 -
LOL, that was hard for me too!!!! I just use turkey bacon now :laugh:
that's not bacon.
on this we agree.
only bacon is bacon.0 -
As long as your macros are set right, and you exercise properly to maintain lean muscle, you'll lose fat with a calorie deficit. And still be healthy. Good for you on the processed food, if that's what works for you, congrats. For others who don't want to give up foods they like that might be considered "processed", they need to know they can still lose fat in a calorie deficit with trying to fit a "clean eating" stereotype.Any food that has calories can technically be bad for you — if consumed in excess.
People get clean eating and weight loss confused. A calorie is a calorie, is a calorie. I say this til I am blue in the face. A calorie is a unit of energy. It is not a fat calorie, a protein calorie, a carb calorie. It is a unit of ENERGY.
I personally try to avoid processed foods (for the most part) and will go whole grain/wheat/meal over white, just because that's how I like to eat. Eating clean at X calories a day will make you lose the same amount of weight as eating X calories a day of 'junk' food. It's science, bro.
People need to stop confusing what a calorie is and what nutrition is, and how that applies to weight loss.
^^^^This. Well said. Nothing further needed.
Well..... If you apply this solely to weightloss (which might include muscle, fat, water.....)
If you apply it healthy fuel for your body's cells. I'll take "clean" unprocessed every time.
I am my own lab experiment. I excluded processed food and reintroduced one at a time and recorded the effects on my body and mind. I now eat hardly any at all and my whole life is better! And it's sustainable. This year I'm growing my own organic veg and might get some chickens for my garden....0 -
And no matter what you eat, or how much of it, or how much you work out, guess what's going to happen to you anyway?
lies.
um.... lol... avoidance?
um... lol... sense of humor?
Oh, I have one, that's why I said avoidance.0 -
Touche'."You’re more obsessed with your health and fitness than other people."
"The athletes can be far more relaxed about their diet."
"You’re careful about your diet, which you should be."
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What's wrong with a poster using the "Royal They" in a post.
yall need to learn to relax. haha0 -
If then you're going to compare NFL linemen, then let's cover the real facts. Real facts are they die earlier because they balloon up 50 or more pounds after retiring. With little to no physical activity YET still gulping down high calories, they are going to get very overweight (if they weren't already) then get obese. And we still know that WEIGHT is the number 1 risk indicator for health issues. But it's been noticed. And now the NFL is instituting programs to help educate linemen about it. Watch the NFL network now, and former linemen are trimming down. Warren Sapp, Jeff Saturday, Antoine Davis, Matt Birk just to name a few.
Wow, I'm pretty sure you're completely oversimplifying the issue. These are guys that are overweight when they play, even though they have great endurance and of course tons of muscle, and some (not all) stay overweight or even become more so once they retire. The bigger issue I suspect is the amount of crap they had to eat to maintain their mass, and it's not uncommon to hear players talk about eating whole pizzas, boxes of wings, buckets of chicken, etc. The effects of this way do disappear instantly upon dropping weight, and suggesting that this striking trend is only due to the weight some players gain/maintain after they retire is laughable. You can't erase decades of horrible eating simply by cutting some weight. It can help, and adding weight can hurt, but that doesn't tell the full story.
As for whether weight at the time of death is the #1 issue for these players dying early, I don't think we do know that conclusively. This is why Harvard got $100,000,000 last year to research the subject. I'm not saying trimming down doesn't hurt, but you're completely oversimplifying the issue.
All that said, my point originally was that you can't talk about what works for athletes and suggest this works for average Joe on MFP. Not only is what athletes do to stay competitive not necessarily in their own best interests in terms of health, but average Joe isn't active enough for the analogy to a professional athlete to even be relevant.0 -
All in all, I feel the greatest benefit to your health comes from eating in a way that allows you to achieve and maintain a healthy weight/body composition(calories and macros), ensure that you are eating a few servings of veggies per day (preferrably a decent variety), and doing some combination of strength training and cardio (which can be one in the same).
This can allow for "unclean" and "processed" foods.
Is there a benefit to reducing the consumption of "unclean and processed" food and replacing it with additional "whole foods"? Perhaps there is a marginal benefit and some people can benefit from eating in a certain way to mitigate health risks, but I prefer and recommend focusing on the big picture first before worrying about any fine tuning.0 -
I prefer and recommend focusing on the big picture first before worrying about any fine tuning.
Amen.0 -
All in all, I feel the greatest benefit to your health comes from eating in a way that allows you to achieve and maintain a healthy weight/body composition(calories and macros), ensure that you are eating a few servings of veggies per day (preferrably a decent variety), and doing some combination of strength training and cardio (which can be one in the same).
This can allow for "unclean" and "processed" foods.
Is there a benefit to reducing the consumption of "unclean and processed" food and replacing it with additional "whole foods"? Perhaps there is a marginal benefit and some people can benefit from eating in a certain way to mitigate health risks, but I prefer and recommend focusing on the big picture first before worrying about any fine tuning.
Amen. And well said. Only took 18 pages of nonsense for someone to post both sides of the coin.
"Clean eating" as some use the term is kind of silly and can be misleading. But the massive over-swing that implies there is no benefit to eating foods that fall into the conventional definition of "healthy" is every bit as misleading. "There's no bad food!" Um, there kinda is. Just depends on what you mean by "bad". The article in question (as I pointed out pages and pages ago) can't even agree on how to state that.
"Why There are No Good or Bad Foods"
"How to Know Whether a Food is Bad or Good for You"
It's just not helpful to argue either extreme. Both are misleading. Hit your calorie goal and hit your macros. Fit the foods you love in where you can. That's not so complicated that we need to go to some extreme to explain it.0 -
LOL, that was hard for me too!!!! I just use turkey bacon now :laugh:
that's not bacon.
on this we agree.
only bacon is bacon.
clean dirty- whatever
only bacon is bacon... and bacon is delicious.
god I love bacon- I couldn't imagine a life without it- that ice cream and beer.
But not all at once- that's awkward.
I like oreo's with my ice cream- and bacon with my eggs.
and beer with my beer.
oh - PS- this has actually been a fabulous thread- I may have skipped the parts about the ghey- not sure how that got thrown in - oh probably the biblical clean eating references- I'm assuming- whatever.
still now back on track- pretty impressive for 15 pages of mostly cohesive communication.
not that anyone needs my approval. But I approve.
Also- jonnythan handling business like it's his job.
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LOL, that was hard for me too!!!! I just use turkey bacon now :laugh:
that's not bacon.
on this we agree.
only bacon is bacon.
clean dirty- whatever
only bacon is bacon... and bacon is delicious.
god I love bacon- I couldn't imagine a life without it- that ice cream and beer.
But not all at once- that's awkward.
I like oreo's with my ice cream- and bacon with my eggs.
and beer with my beer.
oh - PS- this has actually been a fabulous thread- I may have skipped the parts about the ghey- not sure how that got thrown in - oh probably the biblical clean eating references- I'm assuming- whatever.
still now back on track- pretty impressive for 15 pages of mostly cohesive communication.
not that anyone needs my approval. But I approve.
Also- jonnythan handling business like it's his job.
Yeppers, I didn't say much, just sat back and let jonnythan do the talking.0 -
Also- jonnythan handling business like it's his job.
Closer to the truth than is comfortable the last few days :laugh:0 -
Also- jonnythan handling business like it's his job.
Closer to the truth than is comfortable the last few days :laugh:
I wonder what changed? :flowerforyou:0 -
I think the wisest post in here regarding nutrition is that it is all about "context and dosage".0
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The average Joe justs wants to lose some weight, look pretty good, have good health, and still be able to enjoy eating foods they enjoy without getting overweight again. That's about 90% of all people who go on a weight loss plan usually look to achieve. I doubt that one could just eat junk only and achieve obtaining the nutrients they need on a daily basis. But I don't believe (as the article states) that there is such a thing as "bad" or "unhealthy" food. Nutrient deficient? Yep. High calorie? Yep. Can one achieve good health while engaging in eating foods deemed as "unhealthy" or "bad"? Yep. But of course this takes eating strategy, probably some extra physical activity if one wants to eat more than usual (like pizza), and understanding that it probably can't be a day to day endeavor.All that said, my point originally was that you can't talk about what works for athletes and suggest this works for average Joe on MFP. Not only is what athletes do to stay competitive not necessarily in their own best interests in terms of health, but average Joe isn't active enough for the analogy to a professional athlete to even be relevant.
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
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Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
Also- jonnythan handling business like it's his job.
Closer to the truth than is comfortable the last few days :laugh:
I wonder what changed? :flowerforyou:
The checks from McDonald's have temporarily gotten larger than my real paycheck.0 -
Also- jonnythan handling business like it's his job.
Closer to the truth than is comfortable the last few days :laugh:
I wonder what changed? :flowerforyou:
The checks from McDonald's have temporarily gotten larger than my real paycheck.
:laugh:0 -
MFP history has been made.0
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Nah it's happened before. We used to even be MFP friends for a while. Though we did finally realize we had irreconcilable differences, sadly.0
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Did you defriend me?:noway:Nah it's happened before. We used to even be MFP friends for a while. Though we did finally realize we had irreconcilable differences, sadly.
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
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Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0
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