Why "clean eating" is a myth

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  • cwsreddy
    cwsreddy Posts: 998 Member
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    Are the veggies in my Mcdonalds salads, and Panda express mixed veggies considered veggies, or are they, magically fortified? :(

    They're just veggies, as far as I'm concerned. I dunno if some people might consider McDonald's tomatoes, or Panda Express broccoli, to be unclean or something. That's not really my bag.

    Nor mine. In my opinion, I eat an adequate amount of veggies and fruits.

    how much iron do you get from your veggies and fruit?
  • wheird
    wheird Posts: 7,963 Member
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    fallacious. correlation and all that.

    Oh? How so?

    Your n=1 study doesn't establish much. I guess the claim would be that you would be EVEN HEALTHIER if you ate more whole foods and less fortified foods? I think that's doubtful if you've been getting sufficient nutrient intake. I don't really keep a close eye on your diary so I couldn't say ;)

    Doesnt negate that my health markers are improving, despite my incredibly "unclean" diet, which was my point. :tongue:
  • charlicee
    charlicee Posts: 53
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    I eat mostly unadulterated foods, no sugar or added salt, no dairy other than a daily dose of greek yogurt, no grains except a small serving of whole wheat pasta, no junk food or most processed crap (especially if it's "fortified"). Maybe because of what I read. Maybe because I have a sensitive body that thrives better on non-starchy plant food, eggs, nuts, seeds, fresh spices & herbs, olive and peanut oil, wild seasonal honey, and the occasional mini-slab of fish or meat, and feels bloated and dead on sweets and sugars, salts, sauces, starches and grains, junk food, dairy, soy, modern foods. Clean food simply means unadulterated and processed. The rest is just perception
  • jonnythan
    jonnythan Posts: 10,161 Member
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    I see. So they might have different forms of magnesium and one is more bioavailable than the fortified one. So tomato paste from a can with no additives is the same as a tomato picked right off the vine then? Same stuff right?

    Pretty much, yeah. I guess some may claim that the canning process does something bad or destroys some nutrients or something but I don't think that's worth worrying about.
  • LauleaAliyah
    LauleaAliyah Posts: 35 Member
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    Simply eat how YOU interpret to be clean , dont obsess, and be healthy .
  • jonnythan
    jonnythan Posts: 10,161 Member
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    Doesnt negate that my health markers are improving, despite my incredibly "unclean" diet, which was my point. :tongue:

    Yeah I'm with you there. I've posted my lipid profile over the years a few times, you may have seen it.
  • cwsreddy
    cwsreddy Posts: 998 Member
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    2) I'm not talking about the foods as a whole, I'm talking about the comparative nutrients from the two different sources, which in my book are going to be more bioavailable and easily absorbed in the whole food vs the processed enriched fortified food.
    Really? How bizarre! Where does this idea come from. I'd love to read a study that culminated in that conclusion. Can you point me in the right direction? I'm noob.

    He's right, to an extent. There are many vitamins and minerals and other substances in "whole" foods that are far more bioavailable in that form than from a supplement or fortified food. For example, many foods are fortified with magnesium oxide, which has very low bioavailability. The magnesium naturally found in many foods is more readily absorbed. Vitamin A also comes in many forms, and some of the most bioavailable forms are found naturally in foods whereas some forms used to fortify foods are much less so.

    So you can't just count up your vitamin A intake in terms of %RDA and call it equivalent whether it came from a Pop Tart or carrot.

    I see. So they might have different forms of magnesium and one is more bioavailable than the fortified one. So tomato paste from a can with no additives is the same as a tomato picked right off the vine then? Same stuff right?

    really depends on a lot of factors like how long the canned tomato has been sitting on the shelf. even fresh squeezed juices are said to lose a large % of their nutrients if refrigerated for a day.

    if you don't care about that stuff you don't care and that's fine, but I'd still prefer to have FRESH produce over canned. just personal preference.
  • cwsreddy
    cwsreddy Posts: 998 Member
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    fallacious. correlation and all that.

    Oh? How so?

    Your n=1 study doesn't establish much. I guess the claim would be that you would be EVEN HEALTHIER if you ate more whole foods and less fortified foods? I think that's doubtful if you've been getting sufficient nutrient intake. I don't really keep a close eye on your diary so I couldn't say ;)

    Doesnt negate that my health markers are improving, despite my incredibly "unclean" diet, which was my point. :tongue:

    health markers improve with weight loss and weight loss is calorie in/calorie out.

    has nothing to do with nutrition.
  • wheird
    wheird Posts: 7,963 Member
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    Are the veggies in my Mcdonalds salads, and Panda express mixed veggies considered veggies, or are they, magically fortified? :(

    They're just veggies, as far as I'm concerned. I dunno if some people might consider McDonald's tomatoes, or Panda Express broccoli, to be unclean or something. That's not really my bag.

    Nor mine. In my opinion, I eat an adequate amount of veggies and fruits.

    how much iron do you get from your veggies and fruit?

    Well, I eat boiled eggs and spinach nearly daily, and have recently started including more beans, so I assume that I am getting enough. Though, I admittedly do not pay much attention to it.
  • wheird
    wheird Posts: 7,963 Member
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    Doesnt negate that my health markers are improving, despite my incredibly "unclean" diet, which was my point. :tongue:

    Yeah I'm with you there. I've posted my lipid profile over the years a few times, you may have seen it.

    I have. It helped me to stop feeling guilty about eating fast food so often when traveling.
  • wheird
    wheird Posts: 7,963 Member
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    fallacious. correlation and all that.

    Oh? How so?

    Your n=1 study doesn't establish much. I guess the claim would be that you would be EVEN HEALTHIER if you ate more whole foods and less fortified foods? I think that's doubtful if you've been getting sufficient nutrient intake. I don't really keep a close eye on your diary so I couldn't say ;)

    Doesnt negate that my health markers are improving, despite my incredibly "unclean" diet, which was my point. :tongue:

    health markers improve with weight loss and weight loss is calorie in/calorie out.

    has nothing to do with nutrition.

    Then how do you define "healthy" as it relates to an individual? Those health markers also improve with exercise, and is often the key component.
  • cwsreddy
    cwsreddy Posts: 998 Member
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    Are the veggies in my Mcdonalds salads, and Panda express mixed veggies considered veggies, or are they, magically fortified? :(

    They're just veggies, as far as I'm concerned. I dunno if some people might consider McDonald's tomatoes, or Panda Express broccoli, to be unclean or something. That's not really my bag.

    Nor mine. In my opinion, I eat an adequate amount of veggies and fruits.

    how much iron do you get from your veggies and fruit?

    Well, I eat boiled eggs and spinach nearly daily, and have recently started including more beans, so I assume that I am getting enough. Though, I admittedly do not pay much attention to it.

    Haha I'm sure you're fine, and just from that if that's a decent cross section of your intake I'm sure you're doing fine. Most people don't want to be super anal about this stuff and I don't blame them, and it's fine.

    I just wanna live forever :P
  • FlaxMilk
    FlaxMilk Posts: 3,452 Member
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    I'm curious about why you are asking about his iron from the fruits and veggies. As he eats meat, isn't his iron intake from fruits and veggies almost irrelevant?

    Genuinely curious, in the non-fakely innocent way.
  • Whambam087
    Whambam087 Posts: 170
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    fallacious. correlation and all that.

    Oh? How so?

    Your n=1 study doesn't establish much. I guess the claim would be that you would be EVEN HEALTHIER if you ate more whole foods and less fortified foods? I think that's doubtful if you've been getting sufficient nutrient intake. I don't really keep a close eye on your diary so I couldn't say ;)

    Doesnt negate that my health markers are improving, despite my incredibly "unclean" diet, which was my point. :tongue:

    health markers improve with weight loss and weight loss is calorie in/calorie out.

    has nothing to do with nutrition.
    Being thin doesn't automatically mean someone is healthy...they're just more likely to be
  • cwsreddy
    cwsreddy Posts: 998 Member
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    fallacious. correlation and all that.

    Oh? How so?

    Your n=1 study doesn't establish much. I guess the claim would be that you would be EVEN HEALTHIER if you ate more whole foods and less fortified foods? I think that's doubtful if you've been getting sufficient nutrient intake. I don't really keep a close eye on your diary so I couldn't say ;)

    Doesnt negate that my health markers are improving, despite my incredibly "unclean" diet, which was my point. :tongue:

    health markers improve with weight loss and weight loss is calorie in/calorie out.

    has nothing to do with nutrition.

    Then how do you define "healthy" as it relates to an individual? Those health markers also improve with exercise, and is often the key component.

    it's entirely possible they'd improve more drastically, though since we all respond to nutrients slightly differently, clearly I can't say that for sure.

    I just like to play the odds. And odds are I'll be "healthier" long-term if I eat primarily fresh whole foods. Again, imo.
  • wheird
    wheird Posts: 7,963 Member
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    I'm curious about why you are asking about his iron from the fruits and veggies. As he eats meat, isn't his iron intake from fruits and veggies almost irrelevant?

    Genuinely curious, in the non-fakely innocent way.

    I -believe- that red meat has a lot of iron, but I dont eat much red meat. I usually go the chicken route.

    And now I want steak.
  • FlaxMilk
    FlaxMilk Posts: 3,452 Member
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    Then how do you define "healthy" as it relates to an individual? Those health markers also improve with exercise, and is often the key component.

    To add fuel to why N=1 isn't that meaningful, I have to add that my weight has increased over the last couple of years, as my level of activity has been dramatically decreased, and my blood results are as good as they were 6 years ago. My energy output is very different but my diet is pretty much identical.
  • cwsreddy
    cwsreddy Posts: 998 Member
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    I'm curious about why you are asking about his iron from the fruits and veggies. As he eats meat, isn't his iron intake from fruits and veggies almost irrelevant?

    Genuinely curious, in the non-fakely innocent way.

    It was just an example since jonny claimed you can get most of your vitamin and mineral requirements from fruits and veggies which is not accurate. :tongue:
  • jonnythan
    jonnythan Posts: 10,161 Member
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    I'm curious about why you are asking about his iron from the fruits and veggies. As he eats meat, isn't his iron intake from fruits and veggies almost irrelevant?

    Genuinely curious, in the non-fakely innocent way.

    It was just an example since jonny claimed you can get most of your vitamin and mineral requirements from fruits and veggies which is not accurate. :tongue:

    Most and all are two different things.

    You can get most of your vitamin and mineral requirements from fruits and veggies. Not all. For example, B12 is basically impossible to come by in sufficient quantities in fruits and veggies. Iron is difficult but not impossible.
  • FlaxMilk
    FlaxMilk Posts: 3,452 Member
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    I -believe- that red meat has a lot of iron, but I dont eat much red meat. I usually go the chicken route.

    And now I want steak.

    Ah I see. I know next to nothing about meat. All I really know is that iron in plant products is less easily absorbed, can be helped by eating Vitamin C with the iron source, and as my levels are fine and supplements cause constipation, I leave well enough alone. :tongue:

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