Why "clean eating" is a myth

wheird

Then how do you define "healthy" as it relates to an individual? Those health markers also improve with exercise, and is often the key component.

To add fuel to why N=1 isn't that meaningful, I have to add that my weight has increased over the last couple of years, as my level of activity has been dramatically decreased, and my blood results are as good as they were 6 years ago. My energy output is very different but my diet is pretty much identical.

That is very interesting. I would have expected your markers to slowly creep upward.

cwsreddy

I'm curious about why you are asking about his iron from the fruits and veggies. As he eats meat, isn't his iron intake from fruits and veggies almost irrelevant?

Genuinely curious, in the non-fakely innocent way.

It was just an example since jonny claimed you can get most of your vitamin and mineral requirements from fruits and veggies which is not accurate.

Most and all are two different things.

You can get most of your vitamin and mineral requirements from fruits and veggies. Not all. For example, B12 is basically impossible to come by in sufficient quantities in fruits and veggies. Iron is difficult but not impossible.

that's a helluva lot of kale. :P

jkolbe94

THANK YOU. I've been saying this for years.

Though I DO believe artificial sweeteners affect the body in a negative way no matter how much/little is used, I ALSO don't believe anything artificial should be consumed by humans. However, 80% (or so) of "food" produced in America contains some form of artificial ingredient (or is too processed to be recognized as food), so my argument would throw our nation's economy into ruins.

cwsreddy

Then how do you define "healthy" as it relates to an individual? Those health markers also improve with exercise, and is often the key component.

To add fuel to why N=1 isn't that meaningful, I have to add that my weight has increased over the last couple of years, as my level of activity has been dramatically decreased, and my blood results are as good as they were 6 years ago. My energy output is very different but my diet is pretty much identical.

That is very interesting. I would have expected your markers to slowly creep upward.

weight and health are correlated, there is no causation involved until you get to the obese level. someone who is 20 pounds overweight may have significantly better health markers than someone who is at their ideal weight. SO many factors are involved.

FlaxMilk

That is very interesting. I would have expected your markers to slowly creep upward.

I had actually hoped they would. There isn't much research done, but low cholesterol is correlated with some anxiety. As I get no real dietary cholesterol as a vegan, I think I'm screwed on this one.

geebusuk

I have tried doing the fairly 'clean' thing in the past.

With my significantly-less clean BUT more educated approach now I am stronger and fitter while generally putting less effort in.

On the "people need simple" - unfortunately the very people that need "simple" are the ones that lap up bad information or take good information and use it badly.

Thus the person I met looking at various cream options and worrying about the amount of sugar they had in - not understanding that milk it's self has a fair bit of sugar and the sugar really isn't the massive devil Lustig would like to sell his latest work on.

psuLemon

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psuLemon

Evidence I've seen also suggests that physical fitness and not being obese are more important than what you eat in most cases.

You've never heard of a runner dying of a heart attack or a former athlete dying of a heart attack or a triathlete developing cancer at a young age? I can keep going.

Weight =/= Fitness =/= Health

There's a reason they are three separate words.

And genetics is a cause for many young people having health issues (It's the same reason why I have higher LDL's than most. Both my mother and father have higher LDLs ). IMO, health is determined by many factors: genetics, body composition (not weight) and over fitness level/exercise.

This issue with these discussion is we don't look at health holistically. Many people, will try to correlate one particular part of someones diet and link it to cancer. When in reality, family history, medications, fitness and diet all have to be considered. My wife was in an out of hospitals for 3 years with a variety of health issues. One of the common themes I keep hearing is they are starting to link more health issues to family history.

ninerbuff

I'm not religious but my Dad once told me that even if there's a 99.999999999% chance there's no God and no heaven, it is STILL in your best interest to be religious in the OFF CHANCE they do exist, because if they don't then I'm no worse off - but if I refuse to acknowledge God's existence and it turns out he's real... welp. I'm ****ed.

Same thing with food.

Well, that's a bit extreme. I do believe in whole food eating, but I don't believe lots of what religion touts as truth. I don't think that anyone that does IIFYM or even any other eating lifestyle will discount that eating whole foods isn't advantageous when it comes to nutrient density. But likening that to believing in god?

A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

Analogies aren't your strong point huh?

Put it this way. Does one have to eat only unprocessed clean foods to be healthy or obtain the nutrients they need for a day? Answer is more than likely no.
Now having to believe in a religion because there maybe a .000000001% chance that it's true? I would then have to adhere to what religion believes about homosexuality, pre marital sex, same sex marriage, pro choice, etc.
Sorry, but not going to "convert" just because of that chance. I'll take the odds. Just like the odds I'll take against "clean" eating.
Better?

A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

fast_eddie_72

No.

Way.

parkscs

Wow, I looked away from this thread for a few hours, and I missed the logical leap from avoiding twinkies in favor of fresh meats, fruits and vegetables to following a religion that opposes gay marriage. Amazing.

I have tried doing the fairly 'clean' thing in the past.

With my significantly-less clean BUT more educated approach now I am stronger and fitter while generally putting less effort in.

But you're comparing apples to oranges. The real question is how would you perform with a clean AND educated approach.

ninerbuff

Wow, I looked away from this thread for a few hours, and I missed the logical leap from avoiding twinkies in favor of fresh meats, fruits and vegetables to following a religion that opposes gay marriage. Amazing.

I have tried doing the fairly 'clean' thing in the past.

With my significantly-less clean BUT more educated approach now I am stronger and fitter while generally putting less effort in.

But you're comparing apples to oranges. The real question is how would you perform with a clean AND educated approach.

Ask an Olympic athlete. If you're going the the approach that clean eating only along with great education will improve performance, then an Olympic athlete eating only clean, but needing 8,000 to 10,000 calories a day probably wouldn't perform well because to intake that much in just clean foods, they'd have to probably be eating on the hour, every hour on a good amount of calories and probably end up with a full stomach all the time. You wouldn't be able to convince any athlete that they perform better on a full stomach with high intensity training.
Which is why many Olympians do eat calorie dense junk foods. Not for the nutrition (which they supplant with other whole foods), but for the caloric value they need to train.

A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

Hornsby

I'm currently maintaining at 32-3400 and I can't imagine having to get to that number in just whole / "clean" foods. Granted, there are tons of them in my daily intake, but I gotta throw some "junk" in as well.

cwsreddy

Evidence I've seen also suggests that physical fitness and not being obese are more important than what you eat in most cases.

You've never heard of a runner dying of a heart attack or a former athlete dying of a heart attack or a triathlete developing cancer at a young age? I can keep going.

Weight =/= Fitness =/= Health

There's a reason they are three separate words.

And genetics is a cause for many young people having health issues (It's the same reason why I have higher LDL's than most. Both my mother and father have higher LDLs ). IMO, health is determined by many factors: genetics, body composition (not weight) and over fitness level/exercise.

This issue with these discussion is we don't look at health holistically. Many people, will try to correlate one particular part of someones diet and link it to cancer. When in reality, family history, medications, fitness and diet all have to be considered. My wife was in an out of hospitals for 3 years with a variety of health issues. One of the common themes I keep hearing is they are starting to link more health issues to family history.

so true, oh and thanks for re-opening :flowerforyou:

geebusuk

This issue with these discussion is we don't look at health holistically.

Missed that that reply was to my post.

Yes, it seems many seem to presume that there is a direct relationship between food and all sorts of nastiness.
If someone changes what they are eating and get better, it so often seems it MUST be their change in diet.
Even when there's a whole load of other factors at play; before and after.

So, also illness =/= dirty eating.

There are so, so many other factors to consider and it's rare these are given near the detail they deserve.

cwsreddy

This issue with these discussion is we don't look at health holistically.

Missed that that reply was to my post.

Yes, it seems many seem to presume that there is a direct relationship between food and all sorts of nastiness.
If someone changes what they are eating and get better, it so often seems it MUST be their change in diet.
Even when there's a whole load of other factors at play; before and after.

So, also illness =/= dirty eating.

There are so, so many other factors to consider and it's rare these are given near the detail they deserve.

of course there are other factors, but diet is one of the contributing factor. I'd argue it's probably the second biggest after genetic factors and ahead of environmental factors. I truly think you CAN beat genetics through food, but it's very hard to do and requires incredible discipline.

4realrose8

"Let food by thy medicine, and medicine be thy food." ~Hippocrates

Titus 3:9

geebusuk

Do you have any evidence that diet is second to genetics?
That's not the impression I've got,but I've not had access to enough raw/reasonably raw data to analyse decently myself.

cwsreddy

Do you have any evidence that diet is second to genetics?
That's not the impression I've got,but I've not had access to enough raw/reasonably raw data to analyse decently myself.

i said probably. if you've got data that shows otherwise that's awesome and i'd love to see it. i'd prefer to put food first tbh.

fast_eddie_72

I think the reason people focus on food related illness risk is because it's one of the variables that you have the most control over.

(edit)

Do you have any evidence that diet is second to genetics?
That's not the impression I've got,but I've not had access to enough raw/reasonably raw data to analyse decently myself.

The above to that point. If genetics can be addressed at all, it is a very difficult and sometimes extreme solution. Some women with a very high family risk of breast cancer opt to have preemptive mastectomies. Obviously that's an extreme way of addressing a risk. By comparison, some diet changes are extremely simple. Really doesn't matter if it's a bigger or smaller impact if it's been demonstrated to be a significant impact and is easy to address.