Calling all sugar addicts!
Replies
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Then my question would be: Why aren't vegetarians showing up in large numbers with health issues if the majority of their diet is fructose laden?
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Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
aw come on man you respond to the Lustig wall-o-text but ignore my actual study depicting actual sugar addiction in rats?
sadface.
You posted a study? Do you not know what a study is? And what was the study design, 12hrs food deprivation?
feel free to read it yourself.
I read your link, it was not a study
it's plenty good enough.
No, it's not. It is not a study despite you calling it a study. Which is why I asked if you actually knew what a study was0 -
I like sweets and feel I need something sweet daily. Have found that a Jolly Rancher or something like that works okay - not really what I want, but it is sweet. Tried one Hershey kiss, but chocolate will lead me to binge for sure. Speaking for myself only, sugar in moderation is okay, but I like it way too much.0
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i would argue that it's not sugar.. it's hyperpalatable foods. Again, no one in this thread has suggested they have an addiction to high sugar fruits, but rather donuts, chocolate, cake, cheese and for me it's wings. As niner point out, our addiction isn't sugar, it's extremely yummy foods. Heck, I will take a Burrito bowl from Chipotle, Steak or Wings over dessert any day of the week. When I binge, it's not on sweets, its on meat because it's yummy.
Do you eat wings until you throw up, and then keep eating? Do you deceive your family so you can hoard Chipotle? Do you steal steak from your housemates? Do you eat food from the garbage? What you have is not addiction but that doesn't mean other people don't have it worse than you. Don't try to compare your lack of self-control over foods you like to people who actually have disorders
You actually make good points... I don't see anyone on this board that claims a sugar addiction stating they are picking pieces of cake out of the trash, or picking up chocolate off the street for a "fix". This is why many of us don't believe it's a addiction but rather a binging disorder.0 -
When you compare the health outcomes of fructose versus alcohol consumption, you end up seeing a very familiar pattern – the diseases they cause are virtually identical!"
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/09/09/ethanol-alcohol-and-fructose.aspx
LMAO, wall of text from Mercola? Hopefully you post Taubes, Davis, Perlmutter or another quack next so I can check them off my quack bingo card
Acg67-- what are you credentials again? What makes you think you are qualified to determine who is a quack who is not?
Unlike some people, I apparently can research objectively and make determinations if someone is a quack or not. Try to do a little research free of confirmation bias and get back to us0 -
http://www.princeton.edu/main/news/archive/S22/88/56G31/index.xml?section=topstoriesHoebel has shown that rats eating large amounts of sugar when hungry, a phenomenon he describes as sugar-bingeing, undergo neurochemical changes in the brain that appear to mimic those produced by substances of abuse, including cocaine, morphine and nicotine. Sugar induces behavioral changes, too. "In certain models, sugar-bingeing causes long-lasting effects in the brain and increases the inclination to take other drugs of abuse, such as alcohol," Hoebel said.
Hoebel and his team also have found that a chemical known as dopamine is released in a region of the brain known as the nucleus accumbens when hungry rats drink a sugar solution. This chemical signal is thought to trigger motivation and, eventually with repetition, addiction.
This is good.. now we know when you deprive a rat for an extended period of time and them feed them sugar water they show the signs of a binge disorder.
When I start seeing studies around humans, then I will alter my views. At this moment, I don't think sugar is addicting but I do believe there are people who have binge disorders. The broader question is, why do they have a binge disorder: emotional distress, prior eat habits, etc..?
This is such a flawed argument, but hey we're all entitled to our beliefs.
How it is flawed? Last I check, humans weren't deprived of all food for hours and then force fed sugar water. At what point do we want to suggest this is outside the realm of reality.0 -
When you compare the health outcomes of fructose versus alcohol consumption, you end up seeing a very familiar pattern – the diseases they cause are virtually identical!"
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/09/09/ethanol-alcohol-and-fructose.aspx
LMAO, wall of text from Mercola? Hopefully you post Taubes, Davis, Perlmutter or another quack next so I can check them off my quack bingo card
Acg67-- what are you credentials again? What makes you think you are qualified to determine who is a quack who is not?
Unlike some people, I apparently can research objectively and make determinations if someone is a quack or not. Try to do a little research free of confirmation bias and get back to us
the fact that you think you're objective proves that you're not. none of us are. lol0 -
my thoughts on your thoughts….Yes, not everyone who drinks alcohol is not an alcoholic; however, all alcoholics are addicted to ALL forms of alcohol ….you don't se any alcoholics saying .."well, I can drink beer and not be addicted, but I am totally addicted to hard liquor….", which brings us back to my premise which is that if you are truly addicted to sugar you should have to avoid it in ALL forms….
Actually, your statement is not true. I have a relative that is an alcoholic. When he was drinking out of control (arrests, lost jobs, forced rehab, etc.) he drank beer. Over a decade later, he now occasionally drinks whiskey. He will not touch beer because he says he is sure if he drinks beer he will get out of control again. He hates whiskey, so that's all he ever drinks.
Also, check out Moderation Management. http://www.moderation.org/
he hates whiskey but still drinks it? Is that a typo?
No, not a typo. He says he hates whiskey enough that he can limit how much he drinks.
ok, but if you hate something and still force yourself to drink it that means that you still have a problem with alcohol….0 -
http://www.princeton.edu/main/news/archive/S22/88/56G31/index.xml?section=topstoriesHoebel has shown that rats eating large amounts of sugar when hungry, a phenomenon he describes as sugar-bingeing, undergo neurochemical changes in the brain that appear to mimic those produced by substances of abuse, including cocaine, morphine and nicotine. Sugar induces behavioral changes, too. "In certain models, sugar-bingeing causes long-lasting effects in the brain and increases the inclination to take other drugs of abuse, such as alcohol," Hoebel said.
Hoebel and his team also have found that a chemical known as dopamine is released in a region of the brain known as the nucleus accumbens when hungry rats drink a sugar solution. This chemical signal is thought to trigger motivation and, eventually with repetition, addiction.
This is good.. now we know when you deprive a rat for an extended period of time and them feed them sugar water they show the signs of a binge disorder.
When I start seeing studies around humans, then I will alter my views. At this moment, I don't think sugar is addicting but I do believe there are people who have binge disorders. The broader question is, why do they have a binge disorder: emotional distress, prior eat habits, etc..?
This is such a flawed argument, but hey we're all entitled to our beliefs.
How it is flawed? Last I check, humans weren't deprived of all food for hours and then force fed sugar water. At what point do we want to suggest this is outside the realm of reality.
because you realize how much red tape and controversy goes into tests of this nature on humans right? there's a reason nutritional science is decades behind where it should be.0 -
The website http://growinghumankindness.com/ has helped me so much. I'm also currently reading her book 'Overcoming Sugar Addiction: How I Kicked My Sugar Habit and Created a Joyful Sugar Free Life' which I've been really enjoying.0
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Then my question would be: Why aren't vegetarians showing up in large numbers with health issues if the majority of their diet is fructose laden?
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
aw come on man you respond to the Lustig wall-o-text but ignore my actual study depicting actual sugar addiction in rats?
sadface.
You posted a study? Do you not know what a study is? And what was the study design, 12hrs food deprivation?
feel free to read it yourself.
I read your link, it was not a study
it's plenty good enough.
No, it's not. It is not a study despite you calling it a study. Which is why I asked if you actually knew what a study was
it's an ivy-league published article about a study done at an ivy league institution. if you don't find that credible than there's not much more i can do for you sir.0 -
this is all I will say to the sugar addicts in this thread..if you are truly addicted to sugar then stop eating all forms of it. Don't say its only white sugar, and everything else is "ok" and you are not addicted to it; in my opinion that is a slap in the face to real addicts that have to eliminate the entire drug/thing/whatever that they are addicted to…0
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I assume with regard to the source "Feinman the other" (what are his credentials? A biochem teacher?) you are talking about this quote: "In trying to draw parallels between alcohol and fructose, Lustig says “ethanol is a carbohydrate.” Ethanol is not a carbohydrate. "
Feinman has a PhD in biochemstry - http://feinmantheother.com/bio/
Alan Alagon - http://www.alanaragonblog.com/about/0 -
Then my question would be: Why aren't vegetarians showing up in large numbers with health issues if the majority of their diet is fructose laden?
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
aw come on man you respond to the Lustig wall-o-text but ignore my actual study depicting actual sugar addiction in rats?
sadface.
You posted a study? Do you not know what a study is? And what was the study design, 12hrs food deprivation?
feel free to read it yourself.
I read your link, it was not a study
it's plenty good enough.
No, it's not. It is not a study despite you calling it a study. Which is why I asked if you actually knew what a study was
it's an ivy-league published article about a study done at an ivy league institution. if you don't find that credible than there's not much more i can do for you sir.
So now articles about studies are studies? Again what was the study design exactly? Oh yeah you don't know since you dind't post a study0 -
Right now I'm addicted to Tiger Woods Golf......I'm about it play the Masters.....i would argue that it's not sugar.. it's hyperpalatable foods. Again, no one in this thread has suggested they have an addiction to high sugar fruits, but rather donuts, chocolate, cake, cheese and for me it's wings. As niner point out, our addiction isn't sugar, it's extremely yummy foods. Heck, I will take a Burrito bowl from Chipotle, Steak or Wings over dessert any day of the week. When I binge, it's not on sweets, its on meat because it's yummy.
Do you eat wings until you throw up, and then keep eating? Do you deceive your family so you can hoard Chipotle? Do you steal steak from your housemates? Do you eat food from the garbage? What you have is not addiction but that doesn't mean other people don't have it worse than you. Don't try to compare your lack of self-control over foods you like to people who actually have disorders
You actually make good points... I don't see anyone on this board that claims a sugar addiction stating they are picking pieces of cake out of the trash, or picking up chocolate off the street for a "fix". This is why many of us don't believe it's a addiction but rather a binging disorder.0 -
Then my question would be: Why aren't vegetarians showing up in large numbers with health issues if the majority of their diet is fructose laden?
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
aw come on man you respond to the Lustig wall-o-text but ignore my actual study depicting actual sugar addiction in rats?
sadface.
You posted a study? Do you not know what a study is? And what was the study design, 12hrs food deprivation?
feel free to read it yourself.
I read your link, it was not a study
it's plenty good enough.
No, it's not. It is not a study despite you calling it a study. Which is why I asked if you actually knew what a study was
it's an ivy-league published article about a study done at an ivy league institution. if you don't find that credible than there's not much more i can do for you sir.
So now articles about studies are studies? Again what was the study design exactly? Oh yeah you don't know since you dind't post a study
There's the roid rage I've missed for so long. I'm under no requirement to post any proof of anything since this is an open message board. But if you want to misdirect and deflect and ignore the information I presented because it didn't come from ncbi, that's fine. It's disingenuous and manipulative but it's fine.
We could talk about the subject matter or you could quibble over the minutia. Clearly you'd prefer the latter.0 -
Actually there were some on pages 2 and 3, but I don't blame people for not talking about their actual issues here. With all the bull**** arguments going on it's far from a safe spacei would argue that it's not sugar.. it's hyperpalatable foods. Again, no one in this thread has suggested they have an addiction to high sugar fruits, but rather donuts, chocolate, cake, cheese and for me it's wings. As niner point out, our addiction isn't sugar, it's extremely yummy foods. Heck, I will take a Burrito bowl from Chipotle, Steak or Wings over dessert any day of the week. When I binge, it's not on sweets, its on meat because it's yummy.
Do you eat wings until you throw up, and then keep eating? Do you deceive your family so you can hoard Chipotle? Do you steal steak from your housemates? Do you eat food from the garbage? What you have is not addiction but that doesn't mean other people don't have it worse than you. Don't try to compare your lack of self-control over foods you like to people who actually have disorders
You actually make good points... I don't see anyone on this board that claims a sugar addiction stating they are picking pieces of cake out of the trash, or picking up chocolate off the street for a "fix". This is why many of us don't believe it's a addiction but rather a binging disorder.0 -
Then my question would be: Why aren't vegetarians showing up in large numbers with health issues if the majority of their diet is fructose laden?
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
aw come on man you respond to the Lustig wall-o-text but ignore my actual study depicting actual sugar addiction in rats?
sadface.
You posted a study? Do you not know what a study is? And what was the study design, 12hrs food deprivation?
feel free to read it yourself.
I read your link, it was not a study
it's plenty good enough.
No, it's not. It is not a study despite you calling it a study. Which is why I asked if you actually knew what a study was
it's an ivy-league published article about a study done at an ivy league institution. if you don't find that credible than there's not much more i can do for you sir.
So now articles about studies are studies? Again what was the study design exactly? Oh yeah you don't know since you dind't post a study
There's the roid rage I've missed for so long. I'm under no requirement to post any proof of anything since this is an open message board. But if you want to misdirect and deflect and ignore the information I presented because it didn't come from ncbi, that's fine. It's disingenuous and manipulative but it's fine.
We could talk about the subject matter or you could quibble over the minutia. Clearly you'd prefer the latter.
Ah petty personal attacks, how I missed you so.
I never said you had to do anything, but if you said you posted a study, I'd expect you know a study to be posted. Do you not comprehend the difference between a write up on a study and an actual published or even unpublished study?0 -
I'm not totally discounting it. I'm just not currently convinced that at this time it's considered an addiction. I've changed my stances on what I thought was concrete evidence many times in my career. If more comes up to verify, then as I've mentioned I may change my stance.
I'll humor you. Dopamine rush will keep people doing whatever it is that causes it for them. For some it's jumping out of planes. For others it's getting straight A's. And even more from running long distances or dancing.Then my question would be: Why aren't vegetarians showing up in large numbers with health issues if the majority of their diet is fructose laden?
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
aw come on man you respond to the Lustig wall-o-text but ignore my actual study depicting actual sugar addiction in rats?
sadface.
I'd like to see more tests to verify whether or not sugar is really considered an addiction.
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Did you not read? Dopamine response is only one of the factors involved. The neurological changes that took place were very similar to the changes that take place in the brain of someone on drugs. The rats suffered withdrawal, they relapsed, they binged, etc... they fit all the criteria of an addiction.
Is one study proof? Of course not. But is one study enough to say "well maybe there's more to this than I originally thought?"
That's up to you. But the evidence is, nonetheless, compelling.
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
i would argue that it's not sugar.. it's hyperpalatable foods. Again, no one in this thread has suggested they have an addiction to high sugar fruits, but rather donuts, chocolate, cake, cheese and for me it's wings. As niner point out, our addiction isn't sugar, it's extremely yummy foods. Heck, I will take a Burrito bowl from Chipotle, Steak or Wings over dessert any day of the week. When I binge, it's not on sweets, its on meat because it's yummy.
Do you eat wings until you throw up, and then keep eating? Do you deceive your family so you can hoard Chipotle? Do you steal steak from your housemates? Do you eat food from the garbage? What you have is not addiction but that doesn't mean other people don't have it worse than you. Don't try to compare your lack of self-control over foods you like to people who actually have disorders
You actually make good points... I don't see anyone on this board that claims a sugar addiction stating they are picking pieces of cake out of the trash, or picking up chocolate off the street for a "fix". This is why many of us don't believe it's a addiction but rather a binging disorder.
We live in the land of plenty. Any convenience store has sugar, and sugar is cheap. No need to go through the trash.0 -
There's the roid rage I've missed for so long. I'm under no requirement to post any proof of anything since this is an open message board. But if you want to misdirect and deflect and ignore the information I presented because it didn't come from ncbi, that's fine. It's disingenuous and manipulative but it's fine.
We could talk about the subject matter or you could quibble over the minutia. Clearly you'd prefer the latter.
Ah petty personal attacks, how I missed you so.
I never said you had to do anything, but if you said you posted a study, I'd expect you know a study to be posted. Do you not comprehend the difference between a write up on a study and an actual published or even unpublished study?
something about petty personal attacks... lol
(oh and you're still doing exactly what I described. I'd love to discuss that actual subject matter if that interests you)0 -
lol.......yeah why talk about the little stuff, you know like the facts.Then my question would be: Why aren't vegetarians showing up in large numbers with health issues if the majority of their diet is fructose laden?
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
aw come on man you respond to the Lustig wall-o-text but ignore my actual study depicting actual sugar addiction in rats?
sadface.
You posted a study? Do you not know what a study is? And what was the study design, 12hrs food deprivation?
feel free to read it yourself.
I read your link, it was not a study
it's plenty good enough.
No, it's not. It is not a study despite you calling it a study. Which is why I asked if you actually knew what a study was
it's an ivy-league published article about a study done at an ivy league institution. if you don't find that credible than there's not much more i can do for you sir.
So now articles about studies are studies? Again what was the study design exactly? Oh yeah you don't know since you dind't post a study
There's the roid rage I've missed for so long. I'm under no requirement to post any proof of anything since this is an open message board. But if you want to misdirect and deflect and ignore the information I presented because it didn't come from ncbi, that's fine. It's disingenuous and manipulative but it's fine.
We could talk about the subject matter or you could quibble over the minutia. Clearly you'd prefer the latter.0 -
lol.......yeah why talk about the little stuff, you know like the facts.Then my question would be: Why aren't vegetarians showing up in large numbers with health issues if the majority of their diet is fructose laden?
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
aw come on man you respond to the Lustig wall-o-text but ignore my actual study depicting actual sugar addiction in rats?
sadface.
You posted a study? Do you not know what a study is? And what was the study design, 12hrs food deprivation?
feel free to read it yourself.
I read your link, it was not a study
it's plenty good enough.
No, it's not. It is not a study despite you calling it a study. Which is why I asked if you actually knew what a study was
it's an ivy-league published article about a study done at an ivy league institution. if you don't find that credible than there's not much more i can do for you sir.
So now articles about studies are studies? Again what was the study design exactly? Oh yeah you don't know since you dind't post a study
There's the roid rage I've missed for so long. I'm under no requirement to post any proof of anything since this is an open message board. But if you want to misdirect and deflect and ignore the information I presented because it didn't come from ncbi, that's fine. It's disingenuous and manipulative but it's fine.
We could talk about the subject matter or you could quibble over the minutia. Clearly you'd prefer the latter.
Roid rage? Quite the compliment there!0 -
I wasn't being sarcastic. Going through the garbage and the other behaviors I mentioned are quite common among people who have food addiction or binge eating disorderi would argue that it's not sugar.. it's hyperpalatable foods. Again, no one in this thread has suggested they have an addiction to high sugar fruits, but rather donuts, chocolate, cake, cheese and for me it's wings. As niner point out, our addiction isn't sugar, it's extremely yummy foods. Heck, I will take a Burrito bowl from Chipotle, Steak or Wings over dessert any day of the week. When I binge, it's not on sweets, its on meat because it's yummy.
Do you eat wings until you throw up, and then keep eating? Do you deceive your family so you can hoard Chipotle? Do you steal steak from your housemates? Do you eat food from the garbage? What you have is not addiction but that doesn't mean other people don't have it worse than you. Don't try to compare your lack of self-control over foods you like to people who actually have disorders
You actually make good points... I don't see anyone on this board that claims a sugar addiction stating they are picking pieces of cake out of the trash, or picking up chocolate off the street for a "fix". This is why many of us don't believe it's a addiction but rather a binging disorder.
We live in the land of plenty. Any convenience store has sugar, and sugar is cheap. No need to go through the trash.0 -
Then my question would be: Why aren't vegetarians showing up in large numbers with health issues if the majority of their diet is fructose laden?
http://feinmantheother.com/2011/07/29/wait-a-minute-lustig-the-threat-of-fructophobia-and-the-opportunity/
http://www.alanaragonblog.com/2010/01/29/the-bitter-truth-about-fructose-alarmism/
Many doctors can have extreme views, especially when it makes them money. Dr. Oz is the epitome of that. You have to keep in mind there are good doctors and bad doctors. Additionally correlating a condition that occurs in 1 in 100,000 babies does NOT apply to a population at whole. There are many references that discuss in detail about lustigs views. Also keep in mind that Lustig is a neuroendocrinologist... he doesn't have his PhD in any nutrition field.
Ugh, sucked in again!
In your first link, the author does not seem to be disputing anything Lustig said. On the contrary, in our society of "lipophobia" he's afraid people will chose starch over fructose (another "evil" carb because carbs are the root of all obesity.) Second, he seems to be most concerned because Lustig wants the GOVERNMENT to tell people what to eat. Now, as a conservative that occasionally leans libertarian, I can sympathize with that.
Your second link did not come up.
Also, both of those links are 3-4 years old. In light of the newest research pointing to added sugar as increasing heart disease in all people, I think it's time to start listening more carefully to so-call "anti-sugar" zealots.
Try to copy and paste the second one in.
Second, did you read the first article because he does dispute it:
"...The presentation of the science is compelling but, while it has a number of important points, it is clearly biased and, oddly, a good deal of it is totally wrong, some of it containing elementary errors in chemistry that border on the bizarre — how hard would it have been to open an elementary organic chemistry text? "
And from the second link
"While Lustig correctly points out that the nation’s overall caloric consumption has increased, he proceeds to blame carbohydrates as being the primary constituent. The thing is, he uses data spanning from 1989-1995 on children aged 2-17. Survey data is far from the gold standard of evidence, but if you’re gonna cite it, you might as well go with something more recent that includes adults.
Here’s the latest from the USDA Economic Research Service (ERS), which tracked the percent of total daily calories of the range of food groups from 1970-2007. The actual spreadsheet of the following figures can be downloaded here, click on the “Percents” tab at the bottom (note that these figures are updated regularly by the ERS, so the version you download may be different from what’s reported here) [1]:
-Meats, eggs, and nut kcals decreased 4%.
-Dairy kcals decreased 3%.
-Percentage of fruit kcals stayed the same.
-Percentage of vegetable kcals stayed the same.
-Flour and cereal product kcals increased 3%.
-Added fat kcals are up 7%,
-Added sugars kcals decreased 1%
-Total energy intake in 1970 averaged 2172 kcal. By 2007 this hiked up to 2775 kcal, a 603 kcal increase.
Taking a hard look at the data above, it appears that the rise in obesity is due in large part to an increase in caloric intake in general, rather than an increase in added sugars in particular."
I assume with regard to the source "Feinman the other" (what are his credentials? A biochem teacher?) you are talking about this quote: "In trying to draw parallels between alcohol and fructose, Lustig says “ethanol is a carbohydrate.” Ethanol is not a carbohydrate. "
I don't have Lustig's exact quote, and I'm not a biochemist or pediatric neuroendocrinologist myself, but I bet Lustig's point was this:
"Fructose's Three Major Similarities to Alcohol
Unlike glucose, which can be used by virtually every cell in your body, fructose can only be metabolized by your liver, because your liver is the only organ that has the transporter for it.
Since all fructose gets shuttled to your liver, and, if you eat a typical Western-style diet, you consume high amounts of it, fructose ends up taxing and damaging your liver in the same way alcohol and other toxins do. In fact, fructose is virtually identical to alcohol with regard to the metabolic havoc it wreaks.
According to Dr. Lustig, Professor of Pediatrics in the Division of Endocrinology at the University of California, fructose is a "chronic, dose-dependent liver toxin." And just like alcohol, fructose is metabolized directly into fat – not cellular energy, like glucose.
He discussed this topic in the video above, but after the video was produced his paper on the topic was published in the Journal of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics,1 Dr. Lustig explains the three similarities between fructose and its fermentation byproduct, ethanol (alcohol):
Your liver's metabolism of fructose is similar to alcohol, as they both serve as substrates for converting dietary carbohydrate into fat, which promotes insulin resistance, dyslipidemia (abnormal fat levels in the bloodstream), and fatty liver
Fructose undergoes the Maillard reaction with proteins, leading to the formation of superoxide free radicals that can result in liver inflammation similar to acetaldehyde, an intermediary metabolite of ethanol
By "stimulating the 'hedonic pathway' of the brain both directly and indirectly," Dr. Lustig noted, "fructose creates habituation, and possibly dependence; also paralleling ethanol."
Dr. Lustig concluded:
"Thus, fructose induces alterations in both hepatic [liver] metabolism and central nervous system energy signaling, leading to a 'vicious cycle' of excessive consumption and disease consistent with metabolic syndrome. On a societal level, the treatment of fructose as a commodity exhibits market similarities to ethanol. Analogous to ethanol, societal efforts to reduce fructose consumption will likely be necessary to combat the obesity epidemic."
Fructose Versus Alcohol: The Dangerous Metabolic Cascade
After consuming an alcoholic beverage, 10 percent of the ethanol gets broken down by the stomach and intestine as a "first pass" effect, and another 10 percent is metabolized by your brain and other organs. The fact that ethanol is partially metabolized in your brain is the reason you experience that familiar "buzz."
The remaining 80 percent hits your liver, where it must be broken down. This metabolic cascade can be summarized as follows:
Ethanol Metabolism
Your liver converts ethanol to aldehydes, which produce free radicals that damage proteins in your liver.
Some of these aldehydes are converted to glucose, but a large amount of excess citrate is formed in the process, stimulating "junk chemicals" that result in free fatty acids (FFAs), VLDL (smaller, denser LDL (bad cholesterol) particles that stimulate arterial plaque formation) and triglycerides. A 120-calorie intake of ethanol produces VLDL that are transported to your fat cells and contribute to obesity or plaque formation. This is what leads to the dyslipidemia of alcoholism.
The resulting lipids, together with the ethanol, upregulate enzymes that induce an inflammatory cascade, which in turn causes hepatic insulin resistance, liver inflammation and cirrhosis.
Fat globules accumulate in your liver as well, which can lead to fatty liver disease.
Free fatty acids (FFAs) leave your liver and cause your skeletal muscles to become insulin resistant. This is a worse form of insulin resistance than hepatic insulin resistance and can lead to type 2 diabetes.
After a 120-calorie bolus dose of ethanol, a large fraction (about 40 calories) can contribute to disease.
In nearly every way, fructose is metabolized the same way as ethanol, creating the same cascade of damaging effects in your body. When you consume fructose, 100 percent of it goes directly to your liver to be metabolized. This is why it is a hepatotoxin when consumed excessively – it overloads your liver. Fructose metabolism creates the following adverse effects:
Fructose Metabolism
Fructose is immediately converted by your liver to fructose-1-phosphate (F1P), depleting your liver cells of phosphates.
The above process produces waste products in the form of uric acid. Uric acid blocks an enzyme that makes nitric oxide. Nitric oxide is your body's natural blood pressure regulator, especially important for the full dilation of the lining of the arteries known as the endothelium. So when it is blocked, your arteries don't fully dilate, creating a greater burden on your heart and raising your blood pressure – leading to chronic hypertension. Elevated uric acid levels can deposit into soft tissues causing painful inflammation, especially gout.
Almost all of the F1P is turned into pyruvate, ending up as citrate, which results in de novo lipogenesis, the end products of which are FFAs, VLDLs, and triglycerides. The result – hyperlipidemia.
Fructose stimulates g-3-p (activated glycerol), which is the crucial molecule for turning FFAs into triglycerides within your fat cells. The rate of deposition of fat into fat cells is dependent on the presence of g-3-p. The more g-3-p that is available, the more fat that is deposited. Fructose is the carbohydrate most efficiently converted into g-3-p. In other words, fructose is the most lipophilic (fat-producing) carbohydrate.
FFAs are exported from your liver and taken up in skeletal muscle, causing skeletal muscle insulin resistance.
Some of the FFAs stay in your liver, leading to fat droplet accumulation, hepatic insulin resistance and nonalcoholic fatty liver disease (NAFLD).
Insulin resistance stresses your pancreas, which pumps out more insulin in response to rising blood sugar as your cells are unable to get the sugar out of your bloodstream, and this can progress to type 2 diabetes.
As with a bolus dose of ethanol, a 120-calorie bolus of fructose results in a large fraction (again, about 40 calories) that directly contributes to disease.
You can see by comparing the metabolism of fructose with the metabolism of ethanol that they are very similar. In fact, when you compare the metabolism of 150 calories of soda with 150 calories of beer (a 12-ounce can of each), about 90 calories reach the liver in either case. Fructose causes most of the same toxic effects as ethanol because both come from sugar fermentation. Both ethanol metabolism and fructose metabolism lead to visceral adiposity (belly fat), insulin resistance and metabolic syndrome.
Health Effects of Too Much Fructose Mirror Those of Too Much Alcohol
Dr. Lustig uses the term "liver toxin" to describe fructose, but he's also careful to note that it's not fructose per se that is toxic. There are instances when your body can use it, e.g. post-workout or fasting-induced glycogen depletion. The problem is that most people consume so much of it that it turns toxic by virtue of the fact that your body cannot use the excess. It simply gets shuttled into your cells and stored as fat. So it's the massive doses you're exposed to that make it dangerous.
When you compare the health outcomes of fructose versus alcohol consumption, you end up seeing a very familiar pattern – the diseases they cause are virtually identical!"
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/09/09/ethanol-alcohol-and-fructose.aspx
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
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Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
My thoughts: Some vegetarians are showing up with health problems. And, obviously, it more complicated than just one thing as food biochemistry combined with individual genetics is somewhat complex. Does the vegetarian have a genetic predisposition to diabetes or insulin resistance or are they "normal"? Are they eating adequate fats and proteins as a ratio? Are they eating the mythological "clean diet" of salads, kale, raw veggies and whole fruits, or are they eating lots of grains, simple carbs, juices, and vegetarian processed food?0 -
There's the roid rage I've missed for so long. I'm under no requirement to post any proof of anything since this is an open message board. But if you want to misdirect and deflect and ignore the information I presented because it didn't come from ncbi, that's fine. It's disingenuous and manipulative but it's fine.
We could talk about the subject matter or you could quibble over the minutia. Clearly you'd prefer the latter.
Ah petty personal attacks, how I missed you so.
I never said you had to do anything, but if you said you posted a study, I'd expect you know a study to be posted. Do you not comprehend the difference between a write up on a study and an actual published or even unpublished study?
something about petty personal attacks... lol
(oh and you're still doing exactly what I described. I'd love to discuss that actual subject matter if that interests you)
BTW here's the actual study which has been posted ad nauseum by others.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2235907/0 -
There's the roid rage I've missed for so long. I'm under no requirement to post any proof of anything since this is an open message board. But if you want to misdirect and deflect and ignore the information I presented because it didn't come from ncbi, that's fine. It's disingenuous and manipulative but it's fine.
We could talk about the subject matter or you could quibble over the minutia. Clearly you'd prefer the latter.
Ah petty personal attacks, how I missed you so.
I never said you had to do anything, but if you said you posted a study, I'd expect you know a study to be posted. Do you not comprehend the difference between a write up on a study and an actual published or even unpublished study?
something about petty personal attacks... lol
(oh and you're still doing exactly what I described. I'd love to discuss that actual subject matter if that interests you)
BTW here's the actual study which has been posted ad nauseum by others.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2235907/
aw thanks babe :flowerforyou:
glad you're on board.0 -
According to your metabolism and body type certain people crave sugars more (refined, carbohydrates, etc.) while others crave fats more (fried foods, creamy soups, cheese, etc.)
The reason behind it is your body craves the food you are most able to turn into a storage of fat quickly. This was a way for humans to survive when we were living a hunter-gatherer lifestyle.
I definitely am a "sugar addict" in that I definitely crave sweets and carbs. My cousin is the opposite and can go weeks without a hint of sugar but likes potato chips, fried foods, whole milk, cheese, etc.
I have gotten over my addiction a bit by trying what I call a "low grain" diet. I don't eat pastas, much breads, etc. I try to stick to oatmeal in the mornings and a few times a week have a sandwich in a pocket pita, whole grain toast with breakfast etc. I also am trying low sugar.
I've noticed raw foods such as carrots are definitely sweet and VERY filling so I try to eat them when I'm hungry.
Also, 90 calorie granola/fiber bars are my go-to for a quick snack. Or keep a small amount of small pieces of dark chocolate somewhere and take maybe 1 piece a day for lunch. 1 Dove Dark Chocolate Promise is only about 35-45 calories.0 -
I don't think it's an addiction. I think people can have cravings for things but I'm not willing to sell my body for a Klondike bar. I just learn moderation and live at peace with my food.
OMG, this literally made me laugh out loud. Wow. LOL!0 -
P.S. Here are some primary source articles and peer-reviewed scientific articles for all the anger going on in this post.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0149763407000589
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0261561409002398
http://jn.nutrition.org/content/139/3/623.short
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1038/oby.2002.66/full
http://psycnet.apa.org/journals/pha/15/5/481/
You'd be SO surprised what a quick search on google scholar can do.0 -
P.S. Here are some primary source articles and peer-reviewed scientific articles for all the anger going on in this post.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0149763407000589
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0261561409002398
http://jn.nutrition.org/content/139/3/623.short
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1038/oby.2002.66/full
http://psycnet.apa.org/journals/pha/15/5/481/
You'd be SO surprised what a quick search on google scholar can do.
You'd be SO surprised that humans =/= rodents0
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