Why Bulletproof Coffee is BS Coffee

Greytfish

You understand that generally speaking the body either uses carbohydrates directly for energy, converts them to glycogen for storage in the muscles, or converts them and stores them as fat, right?

jonnythan

You understand that generally speaking the body either uses carbohydrates directly for energy, converts them to glycogen for storage in the muscles, or converts them and stores them as fat, right?

Yup.

Greytfish

If your ultimate goal is to promote a more LBM, you want to focus on utilizing your carbs for the first two rather than converting them and storing them as body fat.

J72FIT

If your ultimate goal is to promote a more LBM, you want to focus on utilizing your carbs for the first two rather than converting them and storing them as body fat.

But if you are in a deficit they will not be stored as body fat...

Greytfish

If your ultimate goal is to promote a more LBM, you want to focus on utilizing your carbs for the first two rather than converting them and storing them as body fat.

But if you are in a deficit they will not be stored as body fat...

Once the body intakes carbs it breaks them down and converts them to glucose. From there it must either use that glucose for fuel or store it - either as glycogen or as body fat. The liver and the brain each store only aset, small amount of glycogen. The rest is stored in the muscles. How much glycogen you can store at a given time depends on the number glycogen receptors. The less active you are, the less glycogen you can store. What cannot be stored as glycogen gets converted to fat. Sure, the body can later use that body fat as fuel.

Further, if you workout in the evening, your glycogen stores should not be empty in the morning. They will, however, be depleted after a hard workout in the evening. At that point, the body can use the carbs to rplenish glycogen stores. Over time, the body can become conditioned to storing more glycogen.

SideSteel

Whether or not fat is stored acutely is relatively unimportant.

Fat accumulation will not occur in the absence of excess energy. Over time, if you are in a caloric deficit you will oxidize a greater amount of fat than you will store, which means that over time you are losing fat stores.

J72FIT

If your ultimate goal is to promote a more LBM, you want to focus on utilizing your carbs for the first two rather than converting them and storing them as body fat.

But if you are in a deficit they will not be stored as body fat...

Once the body intakes carbs it breaks them down and converts them to glucose. From there it must either use that glucose for fuel or store it - either as glycogen or as body fat. The liver and the brain each store only aset, small amount of glycogen. The rest is stored in the muscles. How much glycogen you can store at a given time depends on the number glycogen receptors. The less active you are, the less glycogen you can store. What cannot be stored as glycogen gets converted to fat. Sure, the body can later use that body fat as fuel.

Further, if you workout in the evening, your glycogen stores should not be empty in the morning. They will, however, be depleted after a hard workout in the evening. At that point, the body can use the carbs to rplenish glycogen stores. Over time, the body can become conditioned to storing more glycogen.

Sure, but none of that changes the fact that you should not put on fat if you are in a caloric deficit.

usmcmp

If your ultimate goal is to promote a more LBM, you want to focus on utilizing your carbs for the first two rather than converting them and storing them as body fat.

But if you are in a deficit they will not be stored as body fat...

Once the body intakes carbs it breaks them down and converts them to glucose. From there it must either use that glucose for fuel or store it - either as glycogen or as body fat. The liver and the brain each store only aset, small amount of glycogen. The rest is stored in the muscles. How much glycogen you can store at a given time depends on the number glycogen receptors. The less active you are, the less glycogen you can store. What cannot be stored as glycogen gets converted to fat. Sure, the body can later use that body fat as fuel.

Further, if you workout in the evening, your glycogen stores should not be empty in the morning. They will, however, be depleted after a hard workout in the evening. At that point, the body can use the carbs to rplenish glycogen stores. Over time, the body can become conditioned to storing more glycogen.

Yeah, I have to agree with SideSteel's point. You're arguing semantics of short term fat storage. If you are at a calorie deficit you will still be depleting the fat stores in the long term. Overall dietary adherance to a deficit is far more important than worrying if you are burning fat stores at any given point during the day unless you are something like a competitive bodybuilder where that 1% difference may give you an advantage.

Greytfish

I realize some people don't mind lots of storage and retrieval in a prolonged process because they aren't active enough to really notice a difference in functional performance or don't really mind sacrificing performance for the sake of losing fat that way. Some of them may not even have functional goals at all and just exercise because they have to, someone told them too, or they don't like the way they phsyically look just reducing body mass by dietary restriction.

In the grand scheme of things, the body will get there eventually. But plenty of people struggle to improve physical performance and endurance not as much because of what they eat or how much, but because of the timing of how they fuel their body. And plenty of people give up or get frustrated with their evening workouts for the same reason.

My entire point was that something like bulletproff coffee, or fats in other forms can serve a useful purpose for those pursuing LBM who don't work out in the morning and don't wish to sacrifice performance. If you work out in the morning as the person above indicated, you wouldn't want to fuel that way, but it has performance advantages for those who don't.

usmcmp

I realize some people don't mind lots of storage and retrieval in a prolonged process because they aren't active enough to really notice a difference in functional performance or don't really mind sacrificing performance for the sake of losing fat that way. Some of them may not even have functional goals at all and just exercise because they have to, someone told them too, or they don't like the way they phsyically look just reducing body mass by dietary restriction.

In the grand scheme of things, the body will get there eventually. But plenty of people struggle to improve physical performance and endurance not as much because of what they eat or how much, but because of the timing of how they fuel their body. And plenty of people give up or get frustrated with their evening workouts for the same reason.

My entire point was that something like bulletproff coffee, or fats in other forms can serve a useful purpose for those pursuing LBM who don't work out in the morning and don't wish to sacrifice performance. If you work out in the morning as the person above indicated, you wouldn't want to fuel that way, but it has performance advantages for those who don't.

I don't understand how you can generalize performance based on timing of nutrition. Some people need carbs before a workout, some need fat before a workout, some need and empty stomach. I think it's better to say that workout fuel timing is highly individual and potentially also based on the goal of the workout. I workout at noon and I can't eat at all before squats, I need fat before deadlifts and I need protein before cardio. Everything else is a wash and I notice no perfomance difference with different fuel.

To be completely accurate though, fuel for a workout comes from the day before. If you've ever eaten horrible or not at all one day and tried to workout hard the next your performance is likely to suffer.

Greytfish

I wasn't talking about a preworkout meal. Just to clear that up.

jonnythan

You rather specifically said that fats in the morning help increase or prolong body fat oxidation, and implies that carbs would stop the process.

In a calorie deficit, carbs won't get stored as fat so I fail to see how it makes a difference whether you get fat or carbs in the AM in terms of body fat oxidation.

usmcmp

I wasn't talking about a preworkout meal. Just to clear that up.

Well you said it isn't how much people eat or what they eat just when they eat. Explain that. Explain exactly how someone would make the most of nutrient timing to improve athletic performance. I'd love to see the research behind that as well. Can you pull up peer reviewed studies that show that? Can you show us studies that prove it is more effective long term? Can you show us studies that are done on the average person?

You're arguing semantics and forgetting that for most people just maintaining a calorie deficit is difficult enough on its own without having to worry about optimal nutrition timing for a 1% edge on performance or fat loss. Many people can barely track accurately and have zero idea what a good macro nutrient ratio would be for them (much less if they are coming close to that). Dietary adherance is king.

Greytfish

You rather specifically said that fats in the morning help increase or prolong body fat oxidation, and implies that carbs would stop the process.

In a calorie deficit, carbs won't get stored as fat so I fail to see how it makes a difference whether you get fat or carbs in the AM in terms of body fat oxidation.

Again, your body is burning fat when you wake. Body fat. When you consume carbs, it stops fueling with body fat and starts breaking down and fueling with carbs. It will process and use or store all of those carbs. Only if/when those are used or stored will it go back to using fat.

Carbs you consume will indeed be stored as fat, unless you use them readily. You consume them and the body converts them to glucose, then it either mustuse them, store them as glycogen (which can only happen when your glycogen stores are already depleted, otherwise there's no room on the shelf so to speak) or store them as body fat. You may, indeed, fuel with that particular fat at a later time, but it's pretty inefficient.

I wasn't talking about a preworkout meal. Just to clear that up.

Well you said it isn't how much people eat or what they eat just when they eat. Explain that. Explain exactly how someone would make the most of nutrient timing to improve athletic performance. I'd love to see the research behind that as well. Can you pull up peer reviewed studies that show that? Can you show us studies that prove it is more effective long term? Can you show us studies that are done on the average person?

You're arguing semantics and forgetting that for most people just maintaining a calorie deficit is difficult enough on its own without having to worry about optimal nutrition timing for a 1% edge on performance or fat loss. Many people can barely track accurately and have zero idea what a good macro nutrient ratio would be for them (much less if they are coming close to that). Dietary adherance is king.

I'm not forgetting anything, merely giving people credit for being able to learn adapt, and embrace something beyond basic math, especially where it might improve their experience.

I'm well aware that with this group in particular, the learning curve is pretty steep for even the basics. I don't see any reason why that means people cannot ever get beyond the basiscs or shouldn't be presented with more than basic macros and calorie math, especially if doing so might improve their expereince. Why should health education be so limited?

I'm not saying that everyone could or should do a particular thing over another. My entire point from the beginning was that just because there's no magic variety of coffee (Did we not learn that from people paying a premium for Starbucks' poorly roasted coffee?) doesn't mean that the entire concept of bulletproof coffee is flawed or useless.

It's very telling that on these forums, performance is regared as some fantasy luxury thing that exists for the very fit and athletic but not the average person. That's a rather sad assumption. Performance isn't just about taking a few seconds off 800 meter sprint times, PR a lift by a few pounds, or being more competetive in a sport.

Mr_Knight

Again, your body is burning fat when you wake. Body fat. When you consume carbs, it stops fueling with body fat and starts breaking down and fueling with carbs.

When you consume *anything*, the body starts using whatever you've eaten as the preferred fuel.

If you eat fat as your first meal, your body will immediately start metabolizing ingested fat in preference to stored body fat.

"Again."

And this little bit is a bit misleading...

carbs you consume will indeed be stored as fat, unless you use them readily

On the surface, it is true. But since your body can only digest carbs at a rate of around 150-300 calories/hour (depending on many factors), you have to significantly over-eat and under-move to actually trigger the situation you describe. *And* you have to have not depleted your glycogen stores doing other activity, because glycogen restoration takes precedence over fat storage.

So again - it's not the ingestion of carbs - it's the ingestion of carbs at a rate in excess to that which the body can burn. And guess what - the exact same holds true for eating proteins and fats.

jonnythan

Again, your body is burning fat when you wake. Body fat. When you consume carbs, it stops fueling with body fat and starts breaking down and fueling with carbs. It will process and use or store all of those carbs. Only if/when those are used or stored will it go back to using fat.

Yeah, and? When you consume fat, the body stops fueling with body fat and instead fuels with the fats you just consumed, yes?

Carbs you consume will indeed be stored as fat, unless you use them readily. You consume them and the body converts them to glucose, then it either mustuse them, store them as glycogen (which can only happen when your glycogen stores are already depleted, otherwise there's no room on the shelf so to speak) or store them as body fat. You may, indeed, fuel with that particular fat at a later time, but it's pretty inefficient.

What happens with fat that you consume that doesn't get used readily? And assuming isocaloric diets, extra calories that get stored following carb intake (that presumably wouldn't get stored following fat intake) will get made up for later on with body fat oxidation anyway. If overall calorie intake is the same, small amounts of fat storage at certain times won't matter because overall energy difference is the same.

SideSteel

Are you suggesting that its better to avoid acute fat storage through nutrient timing manipulation rather than not worry about it and rely on the net state of energy balance (being in a deficit) to later oxidize that stored fat?

I'm asking this to avoid straw-manning you.

^. Quote fail--I'm directing this to Greyfish.

michellewelch2010

Is this the coffee with grassfed butter and coconut oil added to it?

I'm at work and get watch the video.

I don't get the point of adding butter or coconut oil to your coffee...
Unless you really suck at hitting your fat macro...

Hmm,.. *strokes chin* maybe I should do that to hit my fat macro...

I put a tsp of coconut oil in my coffee with stevia, cinnamon and a splash of vanilla every morning. Put it in the magic bullet and it makes it like a latte without the milk. I was surprised the first time I tried it. It's delicious as long as you drink it hot. I do it with my cheap no-name brand coffee though.

Greytfish

Are you suggesting that its better to avoid acute fat storage through nutrient timing manipulation rather than not worry about it and rely on the net state of energy balance (being in a deficit) to later oxidize that stored fat?

I'm asking this to avoid straw-manning you.

^. Quote fail--I'm directing this to Greyfish.

Essentially, yes, though I'm not presuming that they would not also be working in a deficit, either by restricting calories or by exercise. I am suggesting, for folks who have evening workout schedules, that allowing the body to fuel with fats (dietary and otherwise) first thing in the morning and consuming carbs closer to their actual workout after which the body will need to top off glycogen stores can have the advantage of better overall performance.

I am not saying that in the grand scheme of things as far as overall weight loss is concerned that the timing of fat and carb consumption is as important.


This also assumes they aren't are not eating a surplus in order to bulk or gain.

jonnythan

Are you suggesting that its better to avoid acute fat storage through nutrient timing manipulation rather than not worry about it and rely on the net state of energy balance (being in a deficit) to later oxidize that stored fat?

I'm asking this to avoid straw-manning you.

^. Quote fail--I'm directing this to Greyfish.

Essentially, yes, though I'm not presuming that they would not also be working in a deficit, either by restricting calories or by exercise. I am suggesting, for folks who have evening workout schedules, that allowing the body to fuel with fats (dietary and otherwise) first thing in the morning and consuming carbs closer to their actual workout after which the body will need to top off glycogen stores can have the advantage of better overall performance.

I am not saying that in the grand scheme of things as far as overall weight loss is concerned that the timing of fat and carb consumption is as important.


This also assumes they aren't are not eating a surplus in order to bulk or gain.

So your recommendation is purely about evening workout performance and body fat storage/oxidation has nothing to do with it directly?