Are you guys for or against childhood vaccines?

MelRC117

I say to each their own. I don't get all bent out of shape when someone doesn't vaccinate their child, it's none of my business really. That being said I struggled my entire pregnancy about whether or not I would vaccinate; I was leaning towards not vaccinating but at the last minute I decided to do it. I still question my decision to some degree, but in the end I chose to do it solely because if my child got sick with a disease that could have been prevented, and should have died out years ago, I would NEVER be able to forgive myself.

See, I normally agree when it comes to parenting in general, to each their own (as long as they aren't beating the kids or pure abandonment), BUT when it comes to whether or not someone vaccines it DOES affect my child and all of society.

I used to be "eh" on the flu vaccine, but after knowing someone who was a perfectly healthy middle aged man who died of the flu, I'm definitely NOT lax about it and will be getting it consistently from now on.

DSTMT

I don't know enough about the Gardasil vaccine to have an opinion myself, but I remember hearing about this a while ago...

http://www.purdueexponent.org/features/article_209898d8-1f65-596d-8f12-8cfc6938bde4.html

"Diane Harper, a professor in the department of family and geriatric medicine at the University of Louisville, specializes in many fields, including gynecology, and was the leading research expert for the second and third phases of the vaccine. According to Harper, a vigorous marketing campaign was pursued to “incite the greatest fear possible” in parents of these children to promote the vaccine. Many parents, upon hearing it prevented STIs, opted to include their children in the series without considering facts which may not have been fully explained.

“Gardasil is associated with serious adverse events, including death,” Harper said. In fact, to date, 44 girls have died of the effects of the vaccine. Harper continued, “If Gardasil is given to 11-year-olds and the vaccine does not last at least 15 years, then there is no benefit – and only risk – for the young girl.”

Over 15,000 girls have reported side effects from Gardasil including paralysis which can last years or even be permanent, as well as lupus, seizures, blood clots and brain inflammation. If the HPV vaccine does not prove to be effective for more than 15 years, it will mark the failure of the most costly public health experiment in cancer control. Additionally, the vaccine has only been proven to have efficacy for five years. After this time, an additional vaccination may be necessary for protection."

Again, I'm not saying I'm against the vaccine, I'm just adding this to the conversation.

It looks like the number of adverse reactions is really, really, really small. And 97% of them are "non serious".

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/Vaccines/HPV/index.html

"In the United States, post-licensure vaccine safety monitoring and evaluation are conducted independently by federal agencies and vaccine manufacturers. From June 2006-March 2013, approximately 57 million doses of HPV vaccines were distributed and VAERS received approximately 22,000 adverse event reports occurring in girls and women who received HPV vaccines; 92% were classified as “non-seriousExternal Web Site Icon.”"

22,000 out of 57,000,000. What is that, .03%? And of that number, 97% were "non serious". So "serious" reactions were 660 out of that 57,000,000? Is that .001%?

I think it's misleading to say that people are getting it " without considering facts". The facts are, it's difficult to state how small the risk is in a way that anyone can wrap their head around. It's like saying you jumped on an elevator without fully considering the facts.

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/dec/15/news/la-heb-elevator-safety-death-201112115

Do you pause for even a moment to consider the number of people who have died from elevator accidents before you get on? Probably not. I'm not saying no one has had a serious reaction to Gardasil. Clearly a small number have. But you have to look at the odds and the risk/benefit.

As for the absurd characterization of the ad campaign: of course they tried to scare people. That's how you advertise something like that. It's like saying a non smoking PSA intentionally frightened people and didn't offer any of the benefits of smoking.

That reads like a story that, ironically, intends to generate unwarranted fear.

I don't disagree with you...for the record though, last July I moved to the 7th floor of my building at work and since then have taken the elevator maybe 4 times because I do indeed consider the amount of people who have died in elevator accidents :laugh: that and a bit of claustrophobia. I just thought it was funny that you used that example because yes, yes I do lol.

MissGamerGirl

Speaking as a nursing student, yes, I am very much pro-vaccine for all.

It makes me so sad when I read stories of young children dying in our country from completely preventable diseases that the parents refused the immunizations of on their behalf...

It makes me so angry. I feel like I can't go much further into it than that because it is the one subject that I personally feel is very black and white to me, as harsh as that may sound.

Docmahi

so when they test us on board exams even though the med school boards are called USMLE or United States MLE they routinely will ask questions about obscure infections not commonly seen in the united states and treatment options.

the reason why these questions are still asked is because there is some populous of parents who still dont vaccinate their children so we have to stay current on what these diseases can do - if parents were vaccinating their children these questions would no longer be necessary. Far be it from me to tell you what to do with your kids

but I will be vaccinating mine

JewelsinBigD

I follow my instincts. For the most part, we have done all childhood vaccines, minus the flu shot for my 20 month old. Some I refused to do all in one visit, but rather took him back for each shot, one at time (seperate visits).

The flu shot I refuse because one, he's breastfed and receives antibodies through my milk (I'm forced to get the vac bc I'm military), and two, because the flu rarely kills anyone (complications do). On top of that, after reading the patient insert, I don't believe that the flu vaccine approved for his age group (onle one: fluzone) is effective or well tested. To me, the risks simply do not outweigh the benefits. I'm also not convinced that the flu is nearly as detrimental to society as we are led to believe. Just my opinion.

Please rethink - my child got the flu this year and her already tiny body got even smaller. It was soo scary. The only thing that helped her at all was the vaccine -you can still get the flu but it is tempered. My other kids did not get the flu since they were also vaccinated and even though it was in the house we were able to keep everyone else healthy. A month later she is still not feeling 100% but is a lot better. VACCINATE PEOPLE

RockWarrior84

For all of you who say you have your children vaccinated against most things, but not chicken pox, please reconsider, especially for girls! Like rubella/German measles, if a pregnant woman gets chicken pox it can cause birth defects. I was too old to get the chicken pox vaccine as a kid, but never caught it, so my gyno had me get vaccinated as an adult.

that is why chicken pox parties exist for kids in elementary school.

WendyTerry420

No, not misunderstanding, just re-interpreting. Like I said, it's people who get the shot who are more likely to get sick. Proper hygiene (which means not extreme in either direction) is the best way to prevent the flu. :smokin:

:huh:
How?

Hand-washing with soap and water kills germs. :flowerforyou:

Yes, I've been a nurse for 25 years.
My dry hands and broken fingernails will testify to the fact that I wash my hands.
A lot.


I wanted it explained how "the people who get the shot are more likely to get sick".
Hence, the bold type added.

I thought you might get that one, being a nurse and all. For a few days after the shot, your immune system is kinda busy, so if you get exposed to germs, you are more likely to become ill than if your immune system was ready to react at full throttle.

Empirical Evidence versus the anecdotal conclusions please.

The shot actually can (and doers for many) make you feel worse for a couple of days - beats the hell out of 5-7 bedridden and feeling like death if you ask me

In anyu case people not getting a flu shot is not a major concern
People not vaccinating (and getting the boosters) for truly dangerous and bad diseases are more my issue. all the reasoning against I have ever seen has been based on either a flawed study or even worse third and fourth hand anecdotes all of which have been debunked or proven wrong
(A couple of my longest term friends have gone down the bat**** crazy conspiracy hole in the last couple of years with Alex Jones and all the other whack jobs - I no longer talk with them and neither do most of their friends of 30-40 years- I do keep informed because I worry about one in particular but conversation is no longer possible)

:laugh:

Jenni129

Pro-vaccine here. It's better than living with the long lasting effects those diseases can cause, and potential death. Kinda like if someone offered you a parachute before you sky dived, would you say no? I guess there is a small chance you could land on your feet and walk away unscathed. <shrugs shoulders>

SanteMulberry

I say to each their own. I don't get all bent out of shape when someone doesn't vaccinate their child, it's none of my business really. That being said I struggled my entire pregnancy about whether or not I would vaccinate; I was leaning towards not vaccinating but at the last minute I decided to do it. I still question my decision to some degree, but in the end I chose to do it solely because if my child got sick with a disease that could have been prevented, and should have died out years ago, I would NEVER be able to forgive myself.

See, I normally agree when it comes to parenting in general, to each their own (as long as they aren't beating the kids or pure abandonment), BUT when it comes to whether or not someone vaccines it DOES affect my child and all of society.

I used to be "eh" on the flu vaccine, but after knowing someone who was a perfectly healthy middle aged man who died of the flu, I'm definitely NOT lax about it and will be getting it consistently from now on.

The influenza vaccine may or may not have prevented the death. The statistics show that the influenza vaccine just isn't very effective against the flu. In the case of H1N1, there have been a number of deaths reported from it in California this year. I haven't seen the numbers for which ones were vaccinated or not, but the numbers of deaths among "healthy young adults" was remarkable. With other strains of influenza, most of the deaths occur among the very young and the very old (and those who are imuno-compromised or otherwise debilitated). In the case of healthy young adults who succumb (as was the case of the "Spanish Flu" of WWI era) there is something called a "cytokine storm" that is precipitated by the virus. Ironically, in the case of cytokine storm, the immune system becomes hyper-active and begins attacking healthy tissue. Vitamin D is an essential part of regulating the immune system so that it is much less likely to "go into overdrive". Late winter, when vitamin D stores are at their lowest, is when many influenza deaths occur among the "healthy". It is a bit of a head-scratcher as to why it would occur in "sunny California" until you consider that sunscreens are in wide use in sunny areas and sunscreens block the manufacture of vitamin D in the skin.

Morgaath

Netherlands in biblebelt (that's what it's called) And the people of the very strict churches don't vaccinate their children.
Last year we had an epidemic amongst the schools of those children and whole classes of 30 -40 children got sick.

Hate to tell you, but there are just as many of the kids who aren't vaccinated on the coasts as well. NY & CA are in the top 3 states for un-vaccinated kids. And some of them are not Christians. But they are most likely in a family that is a family with an older college educated mother, white, and earning over $75k/year, and 71% think there is a link between the vaccine and illness.

But for under vaccinated kids, meaning they have some, but not all of their shots, they are more likely poor, with poor medical options, so they save money by not getting the shots. Of these, about 5% think there is a link between vaccine and illness. There is hope that free preventative treatment in health care will allow more of these kids to get vaccinated.

calibriintx

For all of you who say you have your children vaccinated against most things, but not chicken pox, please reconsider, especially for girls! Like rubella/German measles, if a pregnant woman gets chicken pox it can cause birth defects. I was too old to get the chicken pox vaccine as a kid, but never caught it, so my gyno had me get vaccinated as an adult.

that is why chicken pox parties exist for kids in elementary school.

Great idea. Be sure they exchange email addys so they can schedule Let's-Celebrate-Our-Shingles parties when they're older.:drinker:

fast_eddie_72

I follow my instincts.

Most of your post sounds very reasonable. I just couldn't help but think - I followed my instincts on diet and ended up 30 lbs. over weight, even after training for and running a half marathon. Instincts can be great, but when they're influenced by a culture that promotes a lot of misleading information, they can run afoul of the truth.

richardheath

Meh, I'm not reading through all the responses in this thread. Way too much crazy for me!

I'm sure it has already been said, but he link between autism and vaccines was completely made up by Andrew Wakefield. He was working on a vaccine to compete with the existing one, and made up data to try and discredit it. He has since been struck off the Medical Register in the UK, had his papers retracted by the journal, and moved to Texas. His fraud has cost billions of dollars in wasted time and effort as other people have tested his finding, debunking them over and over. The debunking apparently has to carry on, due to the likes of idiots like Jenny McCarthy who spew utter garbage. More money and time wasted, more data that shows no link, more lies from Jenny ad nauseum.

Um, yeah... For vaccines. And herd immunity too.

Lisa1971

Love that Penn and Teller piece on vaccs! SO TRUE! I will never understand why parents choose NOT to vaccinate!:noway: :huh:

SanteMulberry

For all of you who say you have your children vaccinated against most things, but not chicken pox, please reconsider, especially for girls! Like rubella/German measles, if a pregnant woman gets chicken pox it can cause birth defects. I was too old to get the chicken pox vaccine as a kid, but never caught it, so my gyno had me get vaccinated as an adult.

that is why chicken pox parties exist for kids in elementary school.

Great idea. Be sure they exchange email addys so they can schedule Let's-Celebrate-Our-Shingles parties when they're older.:drinker:

Actually, the best insurance against shingles is repeated exposure to the varicella zoster virus (the virus that causes both chicken pox and shingles) as would be the case if children naturally acquired the disease. There has been a huge increase in cases of shingles among the elderly--likely because children are now getting the vaccine.

"...'Every time adults come into contact with children who've just caught chicken pox, they get the natural equivalent of a booster shot of the virus which strengthens their resistance,' explains Dr Phillip Welsby, an infectious diseases expert who has just retired from Western General Hospital, Edinburgh..."

Deaths or serious illness from chicken pox is extremely rare and usually occurs in those who are immune-compromised or otherwise debilitated. Wouldn't it make more sense to vaccinate THEM than make the rest of us submit all of our children to the needle?

fast_eddie_72

I don't know enough about the Gardasil vaccine to have an opinion myself, but I remember hearing about this a while ago...

http://www.purdueexponent.org/features/article_209898d8-1f65-596d-8f12-8cfc6938bde4.html

"Diane Harper, a professor in the department of family and geriatric medicine at the University of Louisville, specializes in many fields, including gynecology, and was the leading research expert for the second and third phases of the vaccine. According to Harper, a vigorous marketing campaign was pursued to “incite the greatest fear possible” in parents of these children to promote the vaccine. Many parents, upon hearing it prevented STIs, opted to include their children in the series without considering facts which may not have been fully explained.

“Gardasil is associated with serious adverse events, including death,” Harper said. In fact, to date, 44 girls have died of the effects of the vaccine. Harper continued, “If Gardasil is given to 11-year-olds and the vaccine does not last at least 15 years, then there is no benefit – and only risk – for the young girl.”

Over 15,000 girls have reported side effects from Gardasil including paralysis which can last years or even be permanent, as well as lupus, seizures, blood clots and brain inflammation. If the HPV vaccine does not prove to be effective for more than 15 years, it will mark the failure of the most costly public health experiment in cancer control. Additionally, the vaccine has only been proven to have efficacy for five years. After this time, an additional vaccination may be necessary for protection."

Again, I'm not saying I'm against the vaccine, I'm just adding this to the conversation.

It looks like the number of adverse reactions is really, really, really small. And 97% of them are "non serious".

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/Vaccines/HPV/index.html

"In the United States, post-licensure vaccine safety monitoring and evaluation are conducted independently by federal agencies and vaccine manufacturers. From June 2006-March 2013, approximately 57 million doses of HPV vaccines were distributed and VAERS received approximately 22,000 adverse event reports occurring in girls and women who received HPV vaccines; 92% were classified as “non-seriousExternal Web Site Icon.”"

22,000 out of 57,000,000. What is that, .03%? And of that number, 97% were "non serious". So "serious" reactions were 660 out of that 57,000,000? Is that .001%?

I think it's misleading to say that people are getting it " without considering facts". The facts are, it's difficult to state how small the risk is in a way that anyone can wrap their head around. It's like saying you jumped on an elevator without fully considering the facts.

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/dec/15/news/la-heb-elevator-safety-death-201112115

Do you pause for even a moment to consider the number of people who have died from elevator accidents before you get on? Probably not. I'm not saying no one has had a serious reaction to Gardasil. Clearly a small number have. But you have to look at the odds and the risk/benefit.

As for the absurd characterization of the ad campaign: of course they tried to scare people. That's how you advertise something like that. It's like saying a non smoking PSA intentionally frightened people and didn't offer any of the benefits of smoking.

That reads like a story that, ironically, intends to generate unwarranted fear.

I don't disagree with you...for the record though, last July I moved to the 7th floor of my building at work and since then have taken the elevator maybe 4 times because I do indeed consider the amount of people who have died in elevator accidents :laugh: that and a bit of claustrophobia. I just thought it was funny that you used that example because yes, yes I do lol.

Well I did say "*probably * not". lol

fast_eddie_72

The statistics show that the influenza vaccine just isn't very effective against the flu.

Uuuuum. You have a different definition of "isn't very effective" than I do. It varies from year to year, but the numbers I've seen published say it ranges from 70% to 90% effective.

Hunnergomeow

I personally don't believe in vaccines. I have all my childhood ones because my mother, despite being a devout Catholic and herself not having been vaccinated and our family being against my bother and I getting vaccinated for religious reasons, decided to get us vaccinated. Good call on her part, because while I was fine as a child, my brother was extremely sickly, and could've died without being vaccinated.

I don't have children, but if I did I would get them all the necessary shots/vaccines when they're little. If they're a sickly child, then maybe they'd get "extras" like the flu shot. There's no way that I wouldn't let my child have a vaccine and put them at risk just because I don't believe in vaccines. To me, that's bad parenting, and honestly I'd feel like the worst person in the world if my child got sick and died from something that I could've easily prevented. However, I wouldn't allow them to get something like the HPV vaccine unless by the time I have children (if I do) there's more information and more studies done about it. Personally, I think it's too new of a vaccine and I don't trust it, it hasn't been around long enough to know all the possible long-term side effects. When the child is 18 they can get whatever shots they want regardless of my opinion on them.

I have a friend of mine who is Mormon, has 8 kids, all that jazz. They don't believe in vaccinations because they're "evil" and they "destroy your immune system" and "cause disease" such as autism. That's their opinion, and that's cool, they can do whatever they like. But they wonder why are their kids always so sick, and they got upset when the whooping cough outbreak here happened and all 8 kids (aged from 2-18) got so sick to the point where one almost died. They believe that eating healthy will prevent all illness, and while I agree that a healthy diet can, and sometimes will, prevent illness, they wouldn't have been in that situation with their kids if they'd gotten vaccinated.

DSTMT

I personally don't believe in vaccines. I have all my childhood ones because my mother, despite being a devout Catholic and herself not having been vaccinated and our family being against my bother and I getting vaccinated for religious reasons, decided to get us vaccinated. Good call on her part, because while I was fine as a child, my brother was extremely sickly, and could've died without being vaccinated.

I don't have children, but if I did I would get them all the necessary shots/vaccines when they're little. If they're a sickly child, then maybe they'd get "extras" like the flu shot. There's no way that I wouldn't let my child have a vaccine and put them at risk just because I don't believe in vaccines. To me, that's bad parenting, and honestly I'd feel like the worst person in the world if my child got sick and died from something that I could've easily prevented. However, I wouldn't allow them to get something like the HPV vaccine unless by the time I have children (if I do) there's more information and more studies done about it. Personally, I think it's too new of a vaccine and I don't trust it, it hasn't been around long enough to know all the possible long-term side effects. When the child is 18 they can get whatever shots they want regardless of my opinion on them.

I have a friend of mine who is Mormon, has 8 kids, all that jazz. They don't believe in vaccinations because they're "evil" and they "destroy your immune system" and "cause disease" such as autism. That's their opinion, and that's cool, they can do whatever they like. But they wonder why are their kids always so sick, and they got upset when the whooping cough outbreak here happened and all 8 kids (aged from 2-18) got so sick to the point where one almost died. They believe that eating healthy will prevent all illness, and while I agree that a healthy diet can, and sometimes will, prevent illness, they wouldn't have been in that situation with their kids if they'd gotten vaccinated.

So just purely out of curiosity, after saying all that, how is it that you say you don't believe in vaccines? You just said that they do in fact work, and can potentially prevent fatal illness, so what is it you don't believe in about them?

richardheath

I personally don't believe in vaccines. I have all my childhood ones because my mother, despite being a devout Catholic and herself not having been vaccinated and our family being against my bother and I getting vaccinated for religious reasons, decided to get us vaccinated. Good call on her part, because while I was fine as a child, my brother was extremely sickly, and could've died without being vaccinated.

I don't have children, but if I did I would get them all the necessary shots/vaccines when they're little. If they're a sickly child, then maybe they'd get "extras" like the flu shot. There's no way that I wouldn't let my child have a vaccine and put them at risk just because I don't believe in vaccines. To me, that's bad parenting, and honestly I'd feel like the worst person in the world if my child got sick and died from something that I could've easily prevented. However, I wouldn't allow them to get something like the HPV vaccine unless by the time I have children (if I do) there's more information and more studies done about it. Personally, I think it's too new of a vaccine and I don't trust it, it hasn't been around long enough to know all the possible long-term side effects. When the child is 18 they can get whatever shots they want regardless of my opinion on them.

I have a friend of mine who is Mormon, has 8 kids, all that jazz. They don't believe in vaccinations because they're "evil" and they "destroy your immune system" and "cause disease" such as autism. That's their opinion, and that's cool, they can do whatever they like. But they wonder why are their kids always so sick, and they got upset when the whooping cough outbreak here happened and all 8 kids (aged from 2-18) got so sick to the point where one almost died. They believe that eating healthy will prevent all illness, and while I agree that a healthy diet can, and sometimes will, prevent illness, they wouldn't have been in that situation with their kids if they'd gotten vaccinated.

So just purely out of curiosity, after saying all that, how is it that you say you don't believe in vaccines? You just said that they do in fact work, and can potentially prevent fatal illness, so what is it you don't believe in about them?

I was wondering that too!

Also, where in the Bible does it say "Thou shalt not vaccinate"? What specifically is the religious objection? [Not trying to be combative, I've just never heard of that outside of faith healing believers.]