Are you guys for or against childhood vaccines?
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Pro choice. Personnally, I weigh the risks against each other. Yes for the major childhood ones, no for the "modern" teenager ones... (the one for girls against uturus cancer, and I think there is now one recommended for 1type of meningitis). I asked their opinion, the one opted to get it; fine. The other not; fine too. The pharma industry does not need to be sponsored.
I think you mean cervical cancer.
Yeah, I found that interesting too. How does one make up their mind that they are against "modern" vaccines, when you don't even know what the vaccine is designed to prevent, much less the pros/cons of said vaccine? How were the kids able to base their decision on whether or not to get the vaccine, when the parent lacks the knowledge themselves?0 -
Calling all...
Internet experts, people who knew a girl who got a vaccine once and..., people who parents are Doctors and know EVERYTHING about medicine, People who have the BEST Doctor in the world, Conspiracy theorist, Bro-science experts, Soccer moms, people who read, watched or heard a story on it... and anyone else who wants to ping pong this topic.. LETS GET IT ON!!! (Mills Lane Voice)
I'm for vaccines! Had them when I was a kid and I'm still alive and "look mom no polio!"
The vaccination schedule now is MUCH more intense than it was when you were an infant and young child. Even some pediatricians question the number of vaccines, the earliness of starting them and short intervals in-between injections. Infants rarely have much of a response to vaccines--the fullest immune reaction doesn't start until 15 months of age (the reason for having to repeat them). Why start them so soon then?
Polio was already on the wane when they began mass vaccination for it. That is the history of polio epidemics--they come and then they go. The first vaccine, (the Salk vaccine) was contaminated was contaminated with SV40 (as was the Sabin vaccine as well). From Wikipedia: "...It contained the Simian vacuolating virus 40 or Simian virus 40, a polyomavirus that is found in both monkeys and humans. Like other polyomaviruses, SV40 is a DNA virus that has the potential to cause tumors, but most often persists as a latent infection.
SV40 became a highly controversial subject after it was revealed that millions were exposed to the virus after receiving a contaminated polio vaccine produced between 1955 and 1961."
There has been a push to vaccinate in areas of Africa where polio is endemic. It has produced something of a "black eye" for the vaccine movement. Young children in those areas almost always contract the infection and, if they are well-nourished, the infection is mild, they have a full recovery and then have a lifetime immunity against the disease. In contrast, those infants who were given the vaccine, developed a somewhat limited immunity, and when the mothers failed to get their children re-vaccinated at age 10, those children were left wide open for an infection as teenagers when the results of the disease are very much more serious--making for much disability in those young people. In those areas of Africa, one who cannot work, often has a very short, miserable life.
This subject is likely too controversial and too lacking in informed opinion to be very useful as a subject here.0 -
it's a big issue where i live.
Netherlands in biblebelt (that's what it's called) And the people of the very strict churches don't vaccinate their children.
Last year we had an epidemic amongst the schools of those children and whole classes of 30 -40 children got sick.
They don't vaccinate because of (fear of) God and that it is against nature
A lot of them are hypocrites in my opinion since they do as they please all week, except for Sundays, then they pretend to be Christians...
Last year in my area we had a measles outbreak due to an ultra conservative group that didn't vaccinate their kids... they do now.
We also see Pertussis (Whooping cough) and TB all the time as well... Yeah, I'm vaccinating myself and my kid... that way IF we get it it won't be near as bad as if we didn't.
Stories like that drive me nuts. Whooping Cough vaccine has been in widespread use since WWII and has saved millions of lives and reduced suffering for many millions more (having had ait as a kid I can't imagine the un-vaccinated version) Same goes for TB
Both these diseases like polio should be virtually non existant and the main reason they even happen in north america is people not vaccinating (combined with immigration from countries without a vaccination program)
Good for you protect your kids and yourself
Darwin will continue to weed out the others0 -
Hmm. I had the flu shot this year because I am pregnant. I have not been sick yet,. I've never gotten sick any year that I have gotten the shot. I don't consistently get it.
My father was a teacher and got his shot every year because the whole kids are germy thing. He never got sick.
I'm not quite convinced that those who get the shot wind up sick every time.
My dad got sick 3 days after getting the flu shot like clock work and was out for a week everytime... He even had it documented to his PCP on base so that he could get a waiver (He was Air Force).... and he got it waived (and he hasn't had the flu or flu like symptoms ever since)... He did however, get ever other vaccine that was required.
I got it when I was pregnant because the year before was the H1N1 outbreak... But I haven't had the flu with or without the shot since I was a child.0 -
Question one for the teen choice - are they grad student geniuses in immunology who can make an informed choice? No? then they get the vaccine because the genius immunologists would as wellPro choice. Personnally, I weigh the risks against each other. Yes for the major childhood ones, no for the "modern" teenager ones... (the one for girls against uturus cancer, and I think there is now one recommended for 1type of meningitis). I asked their opinion, the one opted to get it; fine. The other not; fine too. The pharma industry does not need to be sponsored.
I think you mean cervical cancer.
Yeah, I found that interesting too. How does one make up their mind that they are against "modern" vaccines, when you don't even know what the vaccine is designed to prevent, much less the pros/cons of said vaccine? How were the kids able to base their decision on whether or not to get the vaccine, when the parent lacks the knowledge themselves?0 -
I'm for vaccines. I was a veterinary technician during the time when the parvo vaccine was developed. Dogs (usually the very young or the very old) were dying a horrible death, then...they were not. Once enough of the population was vaccinated, it protected many who were not--that's what happens with herd immunity. We're going backwards nowadays for humans.
Regarding the change in vaccination scheduling--we know more now than we did in the 80s about how maternal immunity gets passed to babies. Dogs and cats all get weaned about the same time, so any antibodies passed in breast milk drop off about the same for all. But we humans have to be individuals in everything, lol, including babycare. The vaccine schedules are developed to cover babies in average-to-bad situations for immunity (ie, feeding formula). Certainly set your own schedules with your doctors, but remember--if you weren't vaccinated either, your breast-fed kid isn't getting passed antibodies the same way.0 -
I'm for vaccines
I got all my childhood vaccines except whooping cough. I was exposed to measles, didn't get measles because of the vaccine (some unvaccinated kids in my school go it though, hence why I was exposed to it).
There was a whooping cough epidemic at my school where all the kids who didn't get whooping cough vaccines got whooping cough. Including me.
That totally ruined my summer when I was six years old. Coughing until you can barely breathe and vomit on a regular basis, for what seemed like the whole entire summer.... couldn't eat ice cream without vomiting because very cold foods triggered coughing fits. I'm really glad the epidemic hit when i was six and not when I was a toddler, because toddlers can die of asphyxiation during coughing fits because they're not like normal coughing fits, it's really difficult to breathe during one, hence the name whooping cough, i.e. you make a whooping sound trying to draw breath between coughing. And it goes on until you vomit.
Fun.... NOT
I'm really glad I was vaccinated against measles, diphtheria (nasty one that, makes your airways close up so you suffocate to death), polio and all the other ones that they had vaccines for in the 70s. I didn't get any of the illnesses I was vaccinated against.
If you don't vaccinate your kids you're putting them at risk of getting the actual diseases the vaccines protect kids from. And the more unvaccinated kids there are then the more likely there is to be an epidemic.0 -
Hmm. I had the flu shot this year because I am pregnant. I have not been sick yet,. I've never gotten sick any year that I have gotten the shot. I don't consistently get it.
My father was a teacher and got his shot every year because the whole kids are germy thing. He never got sick.
I'm not quite convinced that those who get the shot wind up sick every time.
My dad got sick 3 days after getting the flu shot like clock work and was out for a week everytime... He even had it documented to his PCP on base so that he could get a waiver (He was Air Force).... and he got it waived (and he hasn't had the flu or flu like symptoms ever since)... He did however, get ever other vaccine that was required.
I got it when I was pregnant because the year before was the H1N1 outbreak... But I haven't had the flu with or without the shot since I was a child.
Flu vaccine does not cause the flu. It just doesn't. Period. End of story. It is a myth. 100% of the time, in every case. No exceptions, no special cases. It can not happen.
Flu vaccine also does not prevent 100% of flu. It never claimed to.0 -
This awesome video from Penn & Teller basically sums up my position on it (and it's an awesome watch):
http://youtu.be/RfdZTZQvuCo
This is a great video!!! :drinker:
I'm fully vaccinated, and got the full HPV series. I agree with the previous poster about the fact that every time I go to a new gyno, she is THRILLED to learn the fact I had the shots, and I had them in my teens (I think 16 if I remember correctly -- funny fact, I was the first person at my office to get it! -- and yes, something I'm totally proud of :happy: )0 -
Good for you protect your kids and yourself
Darwin will continue to weed out the others
Classy. Considering that most of the deaths occur in children under age 6.....0 -
Hmm. I had the flu shot this year because I am pregnant. I have not been sick yet,. I've never gotten sick any year that I have gotten the shot. I don't consistently get it.
My father was a teacher and got his shot every year because the whole kids are germy thing. He never got sick.
I'm not quite convinced that those who get the shot wind up sick every time.
My dad got sick 3 days after getting the flu shot like clock work and was out for a week everytime... He even had it documented to his PCP on base so that he could get a waiver (He was Air Force).... and he got it waived (and he hasn't had the flu or flu like symptoms ever since)... He did however, get ever other vaccine that was required.
I got it when I was pregnant because the year before was the H1N1 outbreak... But I haven't had the flu with or without the shot since I was a child.
Flu vaccine does not cause the flu. It just doesn't. Period. End of story. It is a myth. 100% of the time, in every case. No exceptions, no special cases. It can not happen.
Flu vaccine also does not prevent 100% of flu. It never claimed to.
I didn't say it did... It was most likely coincidence or dad got a different strain... that's why in the parenthesis I also used the phrase "flu-like")...0 -
Against. I'm a pediatric nurse and epidemics and sick kids means job security for me.
I hope that your not serious because I find that statement from a medical professional very callous. You are implying that your job security is more important that the health and life of a child.
If you are joking I find your sense of humor completely out of place
So it is obvious that I am IN for child vaccination.
What I'm going to say is satire and sarcasm are often used to draw attention to social issues and definitely not out of place. What I wanted to say is take the stick out of your butt.0 -
How can you say you are FOR vaccines?
Because....well....science...
Also, do you care to post any of your research articles? Would love to read.
This. Also, I love the agument against flu shots based on 1500 deaths. Considering how many people (millions? Don't know, haven't looked it up) get the shot annually, those are pretty low odds. Anybody have the data on what % of those who receive the flu shot end up with complications?
The FDA banned ephedra based on 300 deaths. And aspirin still kills about 2000 annually. It seems arbitrary to me.
Those numbers seem arbitrary. There's no source, we don't know how many people were likely taking ephedra compared to how many likely take aspirin, and we don't know whether intentional overdose is included in the count.
Many FDA decisions are arbitrary.
I think that as long as aspirin is deemed "safe," then so should ephedra. It's impossible to die from either one except in case of overdose. But again, I'm pro-choice. :smokin:
ETA: 38,329 deaths in 2010 in total from all drug overdoses, including controlled substances also.0 -
For. I think it is very selfish to not vaccinate.0
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Pro choice. Personnally, I weigh the risks against each other. Yes for the major childhood ones, no for the "modern" teenager ones... (the one for girls against uturus cancer, and I think there is now one recommended for 1type of meningitis). I asked their opinion, the one opted to get it; fine. The other not; fine too. The pharma industry does not need to be sponsored.
I think you mean cervical cancer.
Yeah, I found that interesting too. How does one make up their mind that they are against "modern" vaccines, when you don't even know what the vaccine is designed to prevent, much less the pros/cons of said vaccine? How were the kids able to base their decision on whether or not to get the vaccine, when the parent lacks the knowledge themselves?
Please excuse my ESL... I often mix up uturus/cervix. We usually address these type of issues in our mother tongue. Should have been more careful.:ohwell:
Edit: it would also help to know I do not have a daughter, but I think I would leave it up to her.0 -
Pro choice. Personnally, I weigh the risks against each other. Yes for the major childhood ones, no for the "modern" teenager ones... (the one for girls against uturus cancer, and I think there is now one recommended for 1type of meningitis). I asked their opinion, the one opted to get it; fine. The other not; fine too. The pharma industry does not need to be sponsored.
I think you mean cervical cancer.
Yeah, I found that interesting too. How does one make up their mind that they are against "modern" vaccines, when you don't even know what the vaccine is designed to prevent, much less the pros/cons of said vaccine? How were the kids able to base their decision on whether or not to get the vaccine, when the parent lacks the knowledge themselves?
I invite this woman's children to ask me what it is like to have cervical cancer.
Really, 5 years of having your insides scrapped out, only to have a part of your cervix removed and you probably can't have children because of it -- at least not without more medical intervention-- like being stitched shut -- um yeah.
But you know, that damned uterine vaccine.0 -
Hmm. I had the flu shot this year because I am pregnant. I have not been sick yet,. I've never gotten sick any year that I have gotten the shot. I don't consistently get it.
My father was a teacher and got his shot every year because the whole kids are germy thing. He never got sick.
I'm not quite convinced that those who get the shot wind up sick every time.
My dad got sick 3 days after getting the flu shot like clock work and was out for a week everytime... He even had it documented to his PCP on base so that he could get a waiver (He was Air Force).... and he got it waived (and he hasn't had the flu or flu like symptoms ever since)... He did however, get ever other vaccine that was required.
I got it when I was pregnant because the year before was the H1N1 outbreak... But I haven't had the flu with or without the shot since I was a child.
Flu vaccine does not cause the flu. It just doesn't. Period. End of story. It is a myth. 100% of the time, in every case. No exceptions, no special cases. It can not happen.
Flu vaccine also does not prevent 100% of flu. It never claimed to.
I didn't say it did... It was most likely coincidence or dad got a different strain... that's why in the parenthesis I also used the phrase "flu-like")...
A huge part of the problem is that the flu vaccine lowers the immune system significantly for the first 3-5 days, making you susceptible to other viruses, and other flus as well. Coupled with the fact that there's little money to be made in lfu vaccines, and the late stage production, most people are getting the flu vaccine once it's already flu season.0 -
For.
I've been a nurse for 25+ years and have seen the crippling effects of polio and other diseases that could have been prevented by vaccination.
Perhaps the greatest success story in public health is the reduction of infectious diseases resulting from the use of vaccines. Routine immunization has eradicated smallpox from the globe and led to the near elimination of wild polio virus. Vaccines have reduced some preventable infectious diseases to an all-time low, and now few people experience the devastating effects of measles, pertussis, and other illnesses. Prior to approval by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA), vaccines are tested extensively by scientists to ensure they are effective and safe. Vaccines are the best defense we have against infectious diseases; however, no vaccine is 100% safe or effective. Differences in the way individual immune systems react to a vaccine account for rare occasions when people are not protected following immunization or when they experience side effects.
Has the reduction occurred due to vaccination or has it occurred due to improved sanitation, better access to nourishing food and less crowding in dwellings than in the past, when people had much larger families? It might interest you to know that pertussis outbreaks are more likely to affect the vaccinated than the un-vaccinated. Since it is not effective at establishing immunity in infants, why is it given to them? Really, the best preventative against a pertussis infection in an infant or young child is to have older children and adults get a booster vaccination against it, but, even then, they may still get pertussis and since it is a relatively mild infection in older children and adults, it may go un-noticed and still cause infection in an infant. Good hygiene and isolation of the pertussis victim is much more important than vaccines in that instance. Since there are several routes of infection, care should be taken to cover them. Hand washing is always the first line of defense against any infectious disease and children should be taught about the importance of hygiene practices from an early age. Separating diseased children from healthy children should also be done. As another example, one should never allow children to share cups, snacks, etc. as the bordetella bacterium is easily transmitted in saliva as well as being transmitted by airborne droplets during sneezes and coughing. (Bordetella bacteria cause pertussis).0 -
Question one for the teen choice - are they grad student geniuses in immunology who can make an informed choice? No? then they get the vaccine because the genius immunologists would as wellPro choice. Personnally, I weigh the risks against each other. Yes for the major childhood ones, no for the "modern" teenager ones... (the one for girls against uturus cancer, and I think there is now one recommended for 1type of meningitis). I asked their opinion, the one opted to get it; fine. The other not; fine too. The pharma industry does not need to be sponsored.
I think you mean cervical cancer.
Yeah, I found that interesting too. How does one make up their mind that they are against "modern" vaccines, when you don't even know what the vaccine is designed to prevent, much less the pros/cons of said vaccine? How were the kids able to base their decision on whether or not to get the vaccine, when the parent lacks the knowledge themselves?
They can make an informed choice and are very much into science. Like I said, the one opted to get it (immunology reasons), the other not (math reasons). Meaning the one felt it could protect him, the other decided the chances to get the disease (with or without the vaccine) were not warranting getting it.0 -
Regarding the change in vaccination scheduling--we know more now than we did in the 80s about how maternal immunity gets passed to babies. Dogs and cats all get weaned about the same time, so any antibodies passed in breast milk drop off about the same for all. But we humans have to be individuals in everything, lol, including babycare. The vaccine schedules are developed to cover babies in average-to-bad situations for immunity (ie, feeding formula). Certainly set your own schedules with your doctors, but remember--if you weren't vaccinated either, your breast-fed kid isn't getting passed antibodies the same way.
It's not entirely true that unvaccinated mothers won't pass antibodies. Immunity is multifaceted and is acquired through exposure as well. Recently vaccinated people shed that virus and cause those who come in phsyical contact with them to produce antibodies.
Maternal antibodies - in both dogs/cats and humans - have less of an effect of immunity vs. non immunity as they affect the point at which the maternal antibodies cease blocking the offspring's own immun reaction. In dogs, for example, at 8 weeks, maternal antibodies passed in milk block about 80% of the immune response to the vaccine for distemper (of course they also provide significant protects, though not the full amount), But age 12-14 weeks, maternal antibodies are no longer blocking the offspring's own immune response - and that's regardless of whether pups are fully weaned at 8 weeks or not until 12-16 weeks.0
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