Are you guys for or against childhood vaccines?

Hunnergomeow

I personally don't believe in vaccines. I have all my childhood ones because my mother, despite being a devout Catholic and herself not having been vaccinated and our family being against my bother and I getting vaccinated for religious reasons, decided to get us vaccinated. Good call on her part, because while I was fine as a child, my brother was extremely sickly, and could've died without being vaccinated.

I don't have children, but if I did I would get them all the necessary shots/vaccines when they're little. If they're a sickly child, then maybe they'd get "extras" like the flu shot. There's no way that I wouldn't let my child have a vaccine and put them at risk just because I don't believe in vaccines. To me, that's bad parenting, and honestly I'd feel like the worst person in the world if my child got sick and died from something that I could've easily prevented. However, I wouldn't allow them to get something like the HPV vaccine unless by the time I have children (if I do) there's more information and more studies done about it. Personally, I think it's too new of a vaccine and I don't trust it, it hasn't been around long enough to know all the possible long-term side effects. When the child is 18 they can get whatever shots they want regardless of my opinion on them.

I have a friend of mine who is Mormon, has 8 kids, all that jazz. They don't believe in vaccinations because they're "evil" and they "destroy your immune system" and "cause disease" such as autism. That's their opinion, and that's cool, they can do whatever they like. But they wonder why are their kids always so sick, and they got upset when the whooping cough outbreak here happened and all 8 kids (aged from 2-18) got so sick to the point where one almost died. They believe that eating healthy will prevent all illness, and while I agree that a healthy diet can, and sometimes will, prevent illness, they wouldn't have been in that situation with their kids if they'd gotten vaccinated.

So just purely out of curiosity, after saying all that, how is it that you say you don't believe in vaccines? You just said that they do in fact work, and can potentially prevent fatal illness, so what is it you don't believe in about them?

It's not that I don't believe in them, it's just that personally, for myself, I do not want them. I do not want to get any vaccinations, I do not want to take antibiotics, I don't even take asprin or tylenol, etc etc. No real reason, just my preference. There's nothing wrong with the vaccines, the medicine, anything like that, it's just my personal preference. I would never tell someone "no, you can't" or "no, you shouldn't" just because I personally do not want to have any more vaccinations or take any medications than was necessary at childhood, and I wouldn't deny anyone the option either.

The only thing regarding vaccines that I don't necessarily believe in would be the HPV/ Gardasil vaccine, but only because it's a relatively new vaccine and I don't believe that there's enough research done about it yet to rationalize getting it. Perhaps on that one I could or should do more research, and perhaps by the time I have a girl child (if I do) and she's old enough to get that particular vaccine there will be a lot more information available, but that would probably (hopefully) be at least 15 years from now.

Docmahi

This whole thread is ridiculous

I defer to richard for my responses - he seems to be mirroring my thoughts

Hunnergomeow

I personally don't believe in vaccines. I have all my childhood ones because my mother, despite being a devout Catholic and herself not having been vaccinated and our family being against my bother and I getting vaccinated for religious reasons, decided to get us vaccinated. Good call on her part, because while I was fine as a child, my brother was extremely sickly, and could've died without being vaccinated.

I don't have children, but if I did I would get them all the necessary shots/vaccines when they're little. If they're a sickly child, then maybe they'd get "extras" like the flu shot. There's no way that I wouldn't let my child have a vaccine and put them at risk just because I don't believe in vaccines. To me, that's bad parenting, and honestly I'd feel like the worst person in the world if my child got sick and died from something that I could've easily prevented. However, I wouldn't allow them to get something like the HPV vaccine unless by the time I have children (if I do) there's more information and more studies done about it. Personally, I think it's too new of a vaccine and I don't trust it, it hasn't been around long enough to know all the possible long-term side effects. When the child is 18 they can get whatever shots they want regardless of my opinion on them.

I have a friend of mine who is Mormon, has 8 kids, all that jazz. They don't believe in vaccinations because they're "evil" and they "destroy your immune system" and "cause disease" such as autism. That's their opinion, and that's cool, they can do whatever they like. But they wonder why are their kids always so sick, and they got upset when the whooping cough outbreak here happened and all 8 kids (aged from 2-18) got so sick to the point where one almost died. They believe that eating healthy will prevent all illness, and while I agree that a healthy diet can, and sometimes will, prevent illness, they wouldn't have been in that situation with their kids if they'd gotten vaccinated.

So just purely out of curiosity, after saying all that, how is it that you say you don't believe in vaccines? You just said that they do in fact work, and can potentially prevent fatal illness, so what is it you don't believe in about them?

I was wondering that too!

Also, where in the Bible does it say "Thou shalt not vaccinate"? What specifically is the religious objection? [Not trying to be combative, I've just never heard of that outside of faith healing believers.]

As for the Bible, as far as I know (I'm not particularly devout) it doesn't say crap all. Not sure about Mormons, but my very very Catholic family thinks that vaccinations "go against God" because it's introducing something foreign to your body. (So you can best believe that they take issue with me having tattoos and piercings.) I can't say that all Catholics believe that though. My mother finds that notion hilarious, but her sister sh-ts a brick about it.

MystikPixie

I'm in. It's the ones with the out of this world conspiracy theories, and the ones trying to say it causes mental retardation and stuff that's gonna cause a new plague.

SanteMulberry

The statistics show that the influenza vaccine just isn't very effective against the flu.

Uuuuum. You have a different definition of "isn't very effective" than I do. It varies from year to year, but the numbers I've seen published say it ranges from 70% to 90% effective.

That number is put out by the pharmaceutical firms and is somewhat deceptive. The immunity has a range, which is what the estimates represent--against a specific strain. But, at any one time, there are multiple numbers of viruses going around and the influenza vaccine for that year only covers a tiny number of them (if that--sometimes, they blow it completely). This from the CDC: "For example, a study by Bridges et al (2000) among healthy adults found that the inactivated influenza vaccine was 86% effective against laboratory-confirmed influenza, but only 10% effective against all respiratory illnesses in the same population and season." The bottom line is that the influenza vaccine is thus marginally effective and really isn't worth the expense and the immune system challenge that it presents (making one more vulnerable to other infectious illness). You can read more here: http://www.cdc.gov/flu/professionals/vaccination/effectivenessqa.htm

msdoan

As the parent of a child who has severe allergic reactions to vaccine components in the past, I am FOR childhood vaccinations. You vaccinating your child protects not only them, but also children like my own who are unable to be vaccinated. Herd immunity only works when the the herd is immune and able to protect those who aren't.

VictoriasImage77

I was never asked my opinion on this as a child (nor would it have mattered), so I received them per protocol. I've never died of a communicable disease so far. Whether one caused the other [not] to occur could be debatable.

That being said, as an adult I steer very clear of flu shots, HPV vaccines, etc etc. Why? I just choose to let my immune system do some exploring. It's MY immune system, after all.

However, I am incredibly skeptical of anything that removes choice from the equation. Big Libertarian "no-no". I also realize choosing not to vaccinate one's kids may put others at risk. Big Socialism "no-no." Truth is, while everyday vaccines probably pose minimal risk, large populations have been sterilized under the guise of "vaccinating" refugee camps to prevent the spread of disease.. against those people's will and without their knowledge or consent. Not saying it would happen here, but it HAS happened somewhere. Now that you all think I'm wearing a tinfoil hat, just know that all I'm saying is that it's foolish to think things like that can't happen, because they have. Also, I'm not bothered much by the opinions of others. (FYI..wrapping your cell phone in tin foil can block the signal..I tried it. Haven't tried the hat yet )

The awesome thing? I don't have kids. Therefore I don't have to decide whether to vaccinate or not

jazzcatastrophe

The only thing regarding vaccines that I don't necessarily believe in would be the HPV/ Gardasil vaccine, but only because it's a relatively new vaccine and I don't believe that there's enough research done about it yet to rationalize getting it. Perhaps on that one I could or should do more research, and perhaps by the time I have a girl child (if I do) and she's old enough to get that particular vaccine there will be a lot more information available, but that would probably (hopefully) be at least 15 years from now.

Wrong wrong wrong. The HPV vaccine was already under development over 15 years ago. In order to be approved by the FDA, vaccines have to go through numerous levels of research. First, animal trials are done extensively. Then, trials are conducted with a small number of subjects. Phase 2 consists of clinical trials with a few hundred subjects, followed by Phase 3 with thousands of subjects. If the vaccine fails to show any efficacy or has harmful effects at any of those stages, it will not be approved. Because the vaccine (and it's competitor, Cervarix) were both approved by the FDA, we KNOW that they work and are safe.

SanteMulberry

As the parent of a child who has severe allergic reactions to vaccine components in the past, I am FOR childhood vaccinations. You vaccinating your child protects not only them, but also children like my own who are unable to be vaccinated. Herd immunity only works when the the herd is immune and able to protect those who aren't.

So-called "herd immunity" is false assurance. You can see from the example of the pertussis vaccine that all is not as it purports to be. Your best route is to try to improve your child's immunity (and there are many ways to do this). The second line of defense is to protect him/her from being around others who are ill (and there will always be some even if the vast majority would have their children vaccinated) and using good hygiene practices.

SanteMulberry

The only thing regarding vaccines that I don't necessarily believe in would be the HPV/ Gardasil vaccine, but only because it's a relatively new vaccine and I don't believe that there's enough research done about it yet to rationalize getting it. Perhaps on that one I could or should do more research, and perhaps by the time I have a girl child (if I do) and she's old enough to get that particular vaccine there will be a lot more information available, but that would probably (hopefully) be at least 15 years from now.

Wrong wrong wrong. The HPV vaccine was already under development over 15 years ago. In order to be approved by the FDA, vaccines have to go through numerous levels of research. First, animal trials are done extensively. Then, trials are conducted with a small number of subjects. Phase 2 consists of clinical trials with a few hundred subjects, followed by Phase 3 with thousands of subjects. If the vaccine fails to show any efficacy or has harmful effects at any of those stages, it will not be approved. Because the vaccine (and it's competitor, Cervarix) were both approved by the FDA, we KNOW that they work and are safe.

:laugh:

ETA: Tell that to the millions who were infected with SV40 from the polio vaccine:

"Simian virus 40 (SV40) is a DNA virus isolated in 1960 from contaminated polio vaccines, that induces mesotheliomas, lymphomas, brain and bone tumors, and sarcomas, including osteosarcomas, in hamsters. These same tumor types have been found to contain SV40 DNA and proteins in humans. Mesotheliomas and brain tumors are the two tumor types that have been most consistently associated with SV40, and the range of positivity has varied about from 6 to 60%, although a few reported 100% of positivity and a few reported 0%. It appears unlikely that SV40 infection alone is sufficient to cause human malignancy, as we did not observe an epidemic of cancers following the administration of SV40-contaminated vaccines. However, it seems possible that SV40 may act as a cofactor in the pathogenesis of some tumors. In vitro and animal experiments showing cocarcinogenicity between SV40 and asbestos support this hypothesis."

Although, as the abstract notes, there is little evidence that it is involved with human malignancy--but maybe that is because there isn't a lot of interest in looking into it. You can read the rest of the article here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3241931/

DSTMT

By a very weird coincidence a friend of mine just posted this article on facebook:

http://thecommonsenseshow.com/2013/09/17/the-murdering-of-our-daughters/

It's pretty sensationalistic, the title alone shows that, but take from it what you will. Again I'm not taking a stance for or against, just trying to add to the conversation.

MinMin97

I don't like the lack of clarity regarding their effectiveness and safety.
What clarity is lacking is made up for in heavy doses of FEAR and INTIMIDATION.
It's not how I like to make decisions and choices.

SanteMulberry

Money Magazine did an investigation into vaccine safety in the 1990's. This is part of their findings:

"Among MONEY’S disturbing findings we learned that DPT shots caused brain damage at the rate of one case for every 62,000 fully immunized kids. The shots also kill at least two to four people a year, according to a federally funded Institute of Medicine study and perhaps as many as 900 a year- including a great number misclassifed as victims of sudden infant death syndrome- according to the independent National Vaccine Information Center. What’s worse these tragedies can be virtually eliminated by a current product. Who wouldn’t pay $9 more than the current product. Who wouldn’t pay $9 to protect their child even from a one-in-62000 risk of severe illness, let alone death? Sound like a simple solution? Don’t count on it. Although they are now making some small moves the government and the drug industry have an appalling record of facing up to vaccine problems..." And the article goes on to discuss some pretty depressing information. It can be read here: http://www.vaccinationnews.com/DailyNews/May2001/MoneyMag.htm

RockWarrior84

For all of you who say you have your children vaccinated against most things, but not chicken pox, please reconsider, especially for girls! Like rubella/German measles, if a pregnant woman gets chicken pox it can cause birth defects. I was too old to get the chicken pox vaccine as a kid, but never caught it, so my gyno had me get vaccinated as an adult.

that is why chicken pox parties exist for kids in elementary school.

Great idea. Be sure they exchange email addys so they can schedule Let's-Celebrate-Our-Shingles parties when they're older.:drinker:

I personally have NEVER met a person that has had shingles. Just saying it is not very common. I was involved with chicken pox party as a kid so was my sister, wife, sister in law and parents/uncle/aunts. So i will let you know if any ever get shingles.

RockWarrior84

I personally don't believe in vaccines. I have all my childhood ones because my mother, despite being a devout Catholic and herself not having been vaccinated and our family being against my bother and I getting vaccinated for religious reasons, decided to get us vaccinated. Good call on her part, because while I was fine as a child, my brother was extremely sickly, and could've died without being vaccinated.

I don't have children, but if I did I would get them all the necessary shots/vaccines when they're little. If they're a sickly child, then maybe they'd get "extras" like the flu shot. There's no way that I wouldn't let my child have a vaccine and put them at risk just because I don't believe in vaccines. To me, that's bad parenting, and honestly I'd feel like the worst person in the world if my child got sick and died from something that I could've easily prevented. However, I wouldn't allow them to get something like the HPV vaccine unless by the time I have children (if I do) there's more information and more studies done about it. Personally, I think it's too new of a vaccine and I don't trust it, it hasn't been around long enough to know all the possible long-term side effects. When the child is 18 they can get whatever shots they want regardless of my opinion on them.

I have a friend of mine who is Mormon, has 8 kids, all that jazz. They don't believe in vaccinations because they're "evil" and they "destroy your immune system" and "cause disease" such as autism. That's their opinion, and that's cool, they can do whatever they like. But they wonder why are their kids always so sick, and they got upset when the whooping cough outbreak here happened and all 8 kids (aged from 2-18) got so sick to the point where one almost died. They believe that eating healthy will prevent all illness, and while I agree that a healthy diet can, and sometimes will, prevent illness, they wouldn't have been in that situation with their kids if they'd gotten vaccinated.

So just purely out of curiosity, after saying all that, how is it that you say you don't believe in vaccines? You just said that they do in fact work, and can potentially prevent fatal illness, so what is it you don't believe in about them?

I was wondering that too!

Also, where in the Bible does it say "Thou shalt not vaccinate"? What specifically is the religious objection? [Not trying to be combative, I've just never heard of that outside of faith healing believers.]

As for the Bible, as far as I know (I'm not particularly devout) it doesn't say crap all. Not sure about Mormons, but my very very Catholic family thinks that vaccinations "go against God" because it's introducing something foreign to your body. (So you can best believe that they take issue with me having tattoos and piercings.) I can't say that all Catholics believe that though. My mother finds that notion hilarious, but her sister sh-ts a brick about it.

I laugh at religious people who think that way and this is coming from a very strong christian. Medicine has been used forever and it is just more advanced now. FYI food and water are foreign to your body as well and they introduce nutrients and all. Its people thinking inside a box with people inside a box and trying to add meaning to trivial stuff.

SanteMulberry

For all of you who say you have your children vaccinated against most things, but not chicken pox, please reconsider, especially for girls! Like rubella/German measles, if a pregnant woman gets chicken pox it can cause birth defects. I was too old to get the chicken pox vaccine as a kid, but never caught it, so my gyno had me get vaccinated as an adult.

that is why chicken pox parties exist for kids in elementary school.

Great idea. Be sure they exchange email addys so they can schedule Let's-Celebrate-Our-Shingles parties when they're older.:drinker:

I personally have NEVER met a person that has had shingles. Just saying it is not very common. I was involved with chicken pox party as a kid so was my sister, wife, sister in law and parents/uncle/aunts. So i will let you know if any ever get shingles.

As I wrote before, being exposed to children who actually GET chicken pox is the best assurance against shingles. There has been a steep rise in shingles cases among adults (and it is not only the elderly who are affected among the adult population) since the advent of wide administration of the chicken pox vaccine.

ubermofish

For, because I'm not a retard that believes in a single study by a guy that had his medical license revoked and that has been thoroughly disproved time and time again.

http://healthland.time.com/2010/05/24/doctor-behind-vaccine-autism-link-loses-license/

mam479

Money Magazine did an investigation into vaccine safety in the 1990's. This is part of their findings:

"Among MONEY’S disturbing findings we learned that DPT shots caused brain damage at the rate of one case for every 62,000 fully immunized kids. The shots also kill at least two to four people a year, according to a federally funded Institute of Medicine study and perhaps as many as 900 a year- including a great number misclassifed as victims of sudden infant death syndrome- according to the independent National Vaccine Information Center. What’s worse these tragedies can be virtually eliminated by a current product. Who wouldn’t pay $9 more than the current product. Who wouldn’t pay $9 to protect their child even from a one-in-62000 risk of severe illness, let alone death? Sound like a simple solution? Don’t count on it. Although they are now making some small moves the government and the drug industry have an appalling record of facing up to vaccine problems..." And the article goes on to discuss some pretty depressing information. It can be read here: http://www.vaccinationnews.com/DailyNews/May2001/MoneyMag.htm

Nice fearmongering.

This article is grossly out of date. It refers to the DTwP which includes whole cell pertussis. In 1991, the DTaP(acellular pertussis) was approved in the USA for the 4th and 5th shot. Since 1997, DTwP has not been used in the USA, only DTaP.

crimsontech

I'm allergic to formaldehyde and I would still get a vaccine, because dealing with a rash or anaphylaxis is far easier than dealing with the diseases that vaccines are meant to prevent. The guy who said vaccines cause autism was BLATANTLY LYING and lost his medical license. He fabricated test results to help a friend win a lawsuit and now babies are dying because of stupid parents who aren't having their kids vaccinated against these horrible diseases.

Serah87

Childhood vaccines, yes.

Flu shots, NO!!! My hubby was in the military and was required to have a flu shot every year, he got the flu every time he got the shot.