Paleo vs. Clean eating?
Options
Replies
-
If someone told you they followed a strict vegan lifestyle while they were eating a cheeseburger what would you think? And if they then offered to help you eliminate processed foods from your life...while pouring creamer in their coffee?
I'll stop rolling my eyes when people stop saying dumb ****.
I wouldn't care. I probably just wouldn't engage them in conversation about the topic or realize that my definition may be off -- perhaps adherence wasn't as strict as I thought. But I certainly wouldn't start mocking or ridiculing them because that would be just as bad if not worse. Seriously?
I guess we're different. I don't like hypocrisy. I find it to be dishonest. I don't see any problem saying it. I get that you feel that holding your tongue is "nicer". But this is a public forum and people are looking for advice. I feel that the people offering it should be able to back up the claims they make.
If someone is trying to push their diet plan on someone else I think it should be a good plan that they actually follow.
If someone is trying to use this site to push expensive shakes for weightloss that don't work I'll call them out on it.
You are free to keep quietly allowing everything to pass. I'm free to point out the flaws in the logic people are touting.
"All that is required for evil to win is for good people to say nothing" -paraphrased and over the top quote by someone I don't know.
If people are trying to push their diet plan to the exclusion of all else or sell stuff, sure, I understand the need to challenge it. But when people are simply sharing their own personal experiences as examples of what worked for them, that I don't understand the need to be so disrespectful, especially in the name of supposed hypocrisy. And there is a difference, and for the people being mocked were in the latter group and not the former. In fact, I haven't seen any of the former at all.
And from all that I've seen, people talking about the Paleo or primal lifestyle are only on Paleo or primal threads. They aren't going on the other threads and preaching about how awesome Paleo/primal are. I've never seen that. What I do see is people that are anti-Paleo primal, who mock and ridicule, go out of their way onto Paleo/primal threads to bash it. It's like going into a Jewish temple and bashing Judaism, and then wondering why people find it offensive. That's what I've seen.
If people want only positive reviews about Paleo diet, then they should go into a Paleo group. If I joined a Paleo group just so I could bash it, then your Jewish temple analogy would fit. However, this is a public forum, and people can say what they want. I fail to see why this is so hard to comprehend.
If someone touts the benefits of a diet, says they eat a lot of things completely contradictory of the diet, that doesn't give that person much credibility as far as giving advice goes.
I claim the benefits of the LICHIF diet and I do not eat high carbs - you can check my diary if you want! How is that lowering the credibility of the way I eat. I haven't checked Lindseys diary but I'm sure she is likewise.
All right, I bit. Your food diary is empty! So what are you hiding? Never mind, I was curious but your strong claims followed by an empty diary seems odd.
Sorry - check my diary just seems to be a line everyone seems to chuck around.
I don't log my food - which for me is a benefit of LICHIF I no longer have the insulin spiked carb cravings that I did when I was eating a moderately high carb diet.
That being said I have nothing against other people logging food or counting calories - unlike some I don't have any issue with other people doing diets that work for them. In fact I might be a very small minority in the MFP community, but I do use all the other benefits MFP offer - there good like that they welcome everyone no matter what diet you're on. Sadly the other members don't have this broad minded view.
However that being said I'm certainly not here to shoot down any one else's diet choice and am surprised that for others it seems to be their primary reason for being on the forums.
I understand when someone posts a thread saying 'I'm eating paleo anyone else' and other members post back - yeh I tried that but found it hard to stick to because................ (even though the post is actually asking for people to respond that are doing the diet).
What's disappointing is when that reply post then goes on to slate the diet in general and then suggest nobody should be doing it.0 -
I claim the benefits of the LICHIF diet and I do not eat high carbs - you can check my diary if you want! How is that lowering the credibility of the way I eat. I haven't checked Lindseys diary but I'm sure she is likewise.
Also who said you have to eat a certain way 100% of the time to be following a diet? I've been following my particular brand of LICHIF and I do not think I have see in one of the blogs, webpages or heard on any of the podcast that they have, that you have to follow the diet religiously to get the benefits.
Also unless I am mistaken these forums are for fun, supportive and friendly communication.
And if you come across a topic that you don't like either add to the debate constructively or move on by.
You do have an option to set mine or any other members comments to ignore - then you don't have read them - if we offend so much.
You've displayed in this thread (and others) that your nutritional understanding is rudimentary at best. While mine also might be rudimentary, I don't inflate my knowledge to appear greater than what it actually is. With that said, I don't really care what your diary looks like.
I'll "move on by" if I feel like it, and you don't get to decide whether my addition to the debate is constructive or not.
I don't have anybody's comments set to ignore. I'm not easily offended, but thanks for the concern.
It's not about getting upset. It's about getting bored.0 -
If someone told you they followed a strict vegan lifestyle while they were eating a cheeseburger what would you think? And if they then offered to help you eliminate processed foods from your life...while pouring creamer in their coffee?
I'll stop rolling my eyes when people stop saying dumb ****.
I wouldn't care. I probably just wouldn't engage them in conversation about the topic or realize that my definition may be off -- perhaps adherence wasn't as strict as I thought. But I certainly wouldn't start mocking or ridiculing them because that would be just as bad if not worse. Seriously?
I guess we're different. I don't like hypocrisy. I find it to be dishonest. I don't see any problem saying it. I get that you feel that holding your tongue is "nicer". But this is a public forum and people are looking for advice. I feel that the people offering it should be able to back up the claims they make.
If someone is trying to push their diet plan on someone else I think it should be a good plan that they actually follow.
If someone is trying to use this site to push expensive shakes for weightloss that don't work I'll call them out on it.
You are free to keep quietly allowing everything to pass. I'm free to point out the flaws in the logic people are touting.
"All that is required for evil to win is for good people to say nothing" -paraphrased and over the top quote by someone I don't know.
If people are trying to push their diet plan to the exclusion of all else or sell stuff, sure, I understand the need to challenge it. But when people are simply sharing their own personal experiences as examples of what worked for them, that I don't understand the need to be so disrespectful, especially in the name of supposed hypocrisy. And there is a difference, and for the people being mocked were in the latter group and not the former. In fact, I haven't seen any of the former at all.
And from all that I've seen, people talking about the Paleo or primal lifestyle are only on Paleo or primal threads. They aren't going on the other threads and preaching about how awesome Paleo/primal are. I've never seen that. What I do see is people that are anti-Paleo primal, who mock and ridicule, go out of their way onto Paleo/primal threads to bash it. It's like going into a Jewish temple and bashing Judaism, and then wondering why people find it offensive. That's what I've seen.
If people want only positive reviews about Paleo diet, then they should go into a Paleo group. If I joined a Paleo group just so I could bash it, then your Jewish temple analogy would fit. However, this is a public forum, and people can say what they want. I fail to see why this is so hard to comprehend.
If someone touts the benefits of a diet, says they eat a lot of things completely contradictory of the diet, that doesn't give that person much credibility as far as giving advice goes.
If the thread was about Paleo bashing, it would be fine. But, it's about someone asking more about the diet. Totally fair to offer both benefits and criticisms. However, I don't think it's asking too much to do so in a respectful manner -- leave out the mocking, ridicule and baseless bashing. Is that really too much to ask?
Really? You don't think you would enter the thread trying to defend it, like you always do?
The second part is a matter of opinion which I doubt we will ever see eye to eye.0 -
I have never had a decent congruent answer about what exactly defines 'processed'. Any time I've I asked people questions about it they've seemed to tie themselves in knots. Which draws people to the conclusion that it's actually just a justification for a particular choice that hasn't been thought out!Or the issue could just be in the definition of "processed". Some may consider that to refer to a certain level of refinement or to include unnatural additives, preservatives, etc. Others could be more literal and consider any type of washing or cooking to equal process0 -
If someone told you they followed a strict vegan lifestyle while they were eating a cheeseburger what would you think? And if they then offered to help you eliminate processed foods from your life...while pouring creamer in their coffee?
I'll stop rolling my eyes when people stop saying dumb ****.
I wouldn't care. I probably just wouldn't engage them in conversation about the topic or realize that my definition may be off -- perhaps adherence wasn't as strict as I thought. But I certainly wouldn't start mocking or ridiculing them because that would be just as bad if not worse. Seriously?
I guess we're different. I don't like hypocrisy. I find it to be dishonest. I don't see any problem saying it. I get that you feel that holding your tongue is "nicer". But this is a public forum and people are looking for advice. I feel that the people offering it should be able to back up the claims they make.
If someone is trying to push their diet plan on someone else I think it should be a good plan that they actually follow.
If someone is trying to use this site to push expensive shakes for weightloss that don't work I'll call them out on it.
You are free to keep quietly allowing everything to pass. I'm free to point out the flaws in the logic people are touting.
"All that is required for evil to win is for good people to say nothing" -paraphrased and over the top quote by someone I don't know.
If people are trying to push their diet plan to the exclusion of all else or sell stuff, sure, I understand the need to challenge it. But when people are simply sharing their own personal experiences as examples of what worked for them, that I don't understand the need to be so disrespectful, especially in the name of supposed hypocrisy. And there is a difference, and for the people being mocked were in the latter group and not the former. In fact, I haven't seen any of the former at all.
And from all that I've seen, people talking about the Paleo or primal lifestyle are only on Paleo or primal threads. They aren't going on the other threads and preaching about how awesome Paleo/primal are. I've never seen that. What I do see is people that are anti-Paleo primal, who mock and ridicule, go out of their way onto Paleo/primal threads to bash it. It's like going into a Jewish temple and bashing Judaism, and then wondering why people find it offensive. That's what I've seen.
If people want only positive reviews about Paleo diet, then they should go into a Paleo group. If I joined a Paleo group just so I could bash it, then your Jewish temple analogy would fit. However, this is a public forum, and people can say what they want. I fail to see why this is so hard to comprehend.
If someone touts the benefits of a diet, says they eat a lot of things completely contradictory of the diet, that doesn't give that person much credibility as far as giving advice goes.
I claim the benefits of the LICHIF diet and I do not eat high carbs - you can check my diary if you want! How is that lowering the credibility of the way I eat. I haven't checked Lindseys diary but I'm sure she is likewise.
All right, I bit. Your food diary is empty! So what are you hiding? Never mind, I was curious but your strong claims followed by an empty diary seems odd.
Sorry - check my diary just seems to be a line everyone seems to chuck around.
I don't log my food - which for me is a benefit of LICHIF I no longer have the insulin spiked carb cravings that I did when I was eating a moderately high carb diet.
That being said I have nothing against other people logging food or counting calories - unlike some I don't have any issue with other people doing diets that work for them. In fact I might be a very small minority in the MFP community, but I do use all the other benefits MFP offer - there good like that they welcome everyone no matter what diet you're on. Sadly the other members don't have this broad minded view.
However that being said I'm certainly not here to shoot down any one else's diet choice and am surprised that for others it seems to be their primary reason for being on the forums.
I understand when someone posts a thread saying 'I'm eating paleo anyone else' and other members post back - yeh I tried that but found it hard to stick to because................ (even though the post is actually asking for people to respond that are doing the diet).
What's disappointing is when that reply post then goes on to slate the diet in general and then suggest nobody should be doing it.
0 -
0 -
It's not "supposed" hypocrisy. If you say "I do not eat processed foods!" and then run down a list of the processed foods you eat, you are without question being a hypocrite.
"From what you've seen" is not all there is to see. I've seen plenty of the opposite. I've seen people practicing a diet of moderation be told to enjoy the cancer they're going to get.
I've seen people who claim that people should be kind and not mock others call people obtuse and not very bright.
Mostly what I've seen is lots of people like an argument, they just get mad when they lose.
Or the issue could just be in the definition of "processed". Some may consider that to refer to a certain level of refinement or to include unnatural additives, preservatives, etc. Others could be more literal and consider any type of washing or cooking to equal process.
So, I wouldn't be so quick to jump on the "you're a hypocrite" bandwagon until you're really sure that you're definitions and assumptions are the same.
Even you yourself admitted:"If someone said he didn't eat carbs and then ate fruits and vegetables then I would assume when they said carbs they meant processed/refined carbs. That seems pretty obvious. Same thing with sugar. If they're still drinking milk and eating fruit but not eating sugar than they mean processed sugar not naturally occurring types of sugar like lactose, fructose etc. C'mon, that's obvious.
Wouldn't you assume that when someone says they don't eat processed foods, that would NOT include cocoa powder?0 -
It's not "supposed" hypocrisy. If you say "I do not eat processed foods!" and then run down a list of the processed foods you eat, you are without question being a hypocrite.
"From what you've seen" is not all there is to see. I've seen plenty of the opposite. I've seen people practicing a diet of moderation be told to enjoy the cancer they're going to get.
I've seen people who claim that people should be kind and not mock others call people obtuse and not very bright.
Mostly what I've seen is lots of people like an argument, they just get mad when they lose.
Or the issue could just be in the definition of "processed". Some may consider that to refer to a certain level of refinement or to include unnatural additives, preservatives, etc. Others could be more literal and consider any type of washing or cooking to equal process.
So, I wouldn't be so quick to jump on the "you're a hypocrite" bandwagon until you're really sure that you're definitions and assumptions are the same.
I was actually incredibly generous in my definition of processed. I didn't include the oranges and dates, even though they are a lot more processed than everyone likes to think.
If you don't think powdered cocoa, half & half creamer, and yogurt are processed foods...well I don't know what to tell you. I know "clean eaters" like to make up their own definitions to suit their purposes... but there's no world where yogurt (much less non fat, greek yogurt) is some kind of naturally occuring food source. All of it is man made, packaged, and sold. Fitting every definiton of processed.
I have this theory that there ARE worlds where this is true. And that MFP actually spans across these dimensions...
Which is why we debate:
- Whether a calorie is just a calorie
- What water consists of
- How much muscle weighs relative to fat
- Etc.
0 -
Wouldn't you assume that when someone says they don't eat processed foods, that would NOT include cocoa powder?
Not if they don't like the way that makes them feel.
It all goes back to what I said in the thread in the first place. Most clean eaters and Paleo people define words as they see fit so they can make the health claims they do. They demonize processed foods, and then excuse the processed foods that they themselves eat. With absolutely no rhyme or reason.
0 -
It's not "supposed" hypocrisy. If you say "I do not eat processed foods!" and then run down a list of the processed foods you eat, you are without question being a hypocrite.
"From what you've seen" is not all there is to see. I've seen plenty of the opposite. I've seen people practicing a diet of moderation be told to enjoy the cancer they're going to get.
I've seen people who claim that people should be kind and not mock others call people obtuse and not very bright.
Mostly what I've seen is lots of people like an argument, they just get mad when they lose.
Or the issue could just be in the definition of "processed". Some may consider that to refer to a certain level of refinement or to include unnatural additives, preservatives, etc. Others could be more literal and consider any type of washing or cooking to equal process.
So, I wouldn't be so quick to jump on the "you're a hypocrite" bandwagon until you're really sure that you're definitions and assumptions are the same.
I was actually incredibly generous in my definition of processed. I didn't include the oranges and dates, even though they are a lot more processed than everyone likes to think.
If you don't think powdered cocoa, half & half creamer, and yogurt are processed foods...well I don't know what to tell you. I know "clean eaters" like to make up their own definitions to suit their purposes... but there's no world where yogurt (much less non fat, greek yogurt) is some kind of naturally occuring food source. All of it is man made, packaged, and sold. Fitting every definiton of processed.
I have this theory that there ARE worlds where this is true. And that MFP actually spans across these dimensions...
Which is why we debate:
- Whether a calorie is just a calorie
- What water consists of
- How much muscle weighs relative to fat
- Etc.
-And whether or not you can be addicted to refined sugar, but not all other sugar...
ETA: And that gif is tripping me out. Must be all the caffiene I've had today.0 -
Yes because that is impossible based that everybody is the same - right.0
-
It's not "supposed" hypocrisy. If you say "I do not eat processed foods!" and then run down a list of the processed foods you eat, you are without question being a hypocrite.
"From what you've seen" is not all there is to see. I've seen plenty of the opposite. I've seen people practicing a diet of moderation be told to enjoy the cancer they're going to get.
I've seen people who claim that people should be kind and not mock others call people obtuse and not very bright.
Mostly what I've seen is lots of people like an argument, they just get mad when they lose.
Or the issue could just be in the definition of "processed". Some may consider that to refer to a certain level of refinement or to include unnatural additives, preservatives, etc. Others could be more literal and consider any type of washing or cooking to equal process.
So, I wouldn't be so quick to jump on the "you're a hypocrite" bandwagon until you're really sure that you're definitions and assumptions are the same.
I was actually incredibly generous in my definition of processed. I didn't include the oranges and dates, even though they are a lot more processed than everyone likes to think.
If you don't think powdered cocoa, half & half creamer, and yogurt are processed foods...well I don't know what to tell you. I know "clean eaters" like to make up their own definitions to suit their purposes... but there's no world where yogurt (much less non fat, greek yogurt) is some kind of naturally occuring food source. All of it is man made, packaged, and sold. Fitting every definiton of processed.
I have this theory that there ARE worlds where this is true. And that MFP actually spans across these dimensions...
Which is why we debate:
- Whether a calorie is just a calorie
- What water consists of
- How much muscle weighs relative to fat
- Etc.
-And whether or not you can be addicted to refined sugar, but not all other sugar...
ETA: And that gif is tripping me out. Must be all the caffiene I've had today.
0 -
0
-
0 -
Maybe we can do a one paragraph summary of what all "The Regulars" think about paleo and just copy/paste it into each new thread?
Lindsey: I had undiagnosed issues for years and going Paleo both solved them and helped my doctors diagnose my issues.
Varda: The health claims are hyperbolic, the argument that we should eat what our ancestors ate doesn't take into account human physiology, evolution or what we know about our ancestors, and it seems unnecessarily restrictive, but it's not fundamentally unhealthy if you aren't using it to demonize food.
Neandermagon: http://cavepeopleandstuff.wordpress.com/tag/paleo-diet-humor/0 -
Maybe we can do a one paragraph summary of what all "The Regulars" think about paleo and just copy/paste it into each new thread?
Lindsey: I had undiagnosed issues for years and going Paleo both solved them and helped my doctors diagnose my issues.
Varda: The health claims are hyperbolic, the argument that we should eat what our ancestors ate doesn't take into account human physiology, evolution or what we know about our ancestors, and it seems unnecessarily restrictive, but it's not fundamentally unhealthy if you aren't using it to demonize food.
Neandermagon: http://cavepeopleandstuff.wordpress.com/tag/paleo-diet-humor/
It would certainly be nice the only have one of you guys hijack these threads just the once.
Look forward to seeing the paragraph in the near future.
0 -
Cleaning eating threads always blow up with people arguing one way or the other.
What works for me is eating whatever I want, but monitoring the total macros (protein, fat, and carbs) and calories to fit within my daily allowances and goals.
Haha. I think this is probably the only sensible reply in this thread.0 -
Maybe we can do a one paragraph summary of what all "The Regulars" think about paleo and just copy/paste it into each new thread?
Lindsey: I had undiagnosed issues for years and going Paleo both solved them and helped my doctors diagnose my issues.
Varda: The health claims are hyperbolic, the argument that we should eat what our ancestors ate doesn't take into account human physiology, evolution or what we know about our ancestors, and it seems unnecessarily restrictive, but it's not fundamentally unhealthy if you aren't using it to demonize food.
Neandermagon: http://cavepeopleandstuff.wordpress.com/tag/paleo-diet-humor/
Holly: Cake and ice cream are not clean or Paleo, and they're delicious. Why would you want to give that up? Oh wait, you don't have to according to clean eaters and Paleo dieters...0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPONTneuaF4
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 392K Introduce Yourself
- 43.6K Getting Started
- 259.8K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.7K Food and Nutrition
- 47.4K Recipes
- 232.3K Fitness and Exercise
- 402 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.4K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 152.8K Motivation and Support
- 7.9K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.4K MyFitnessPal Information
- 23 News and Announcements
- 997 Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.4K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions