Paleo vs. Clean eating?
Replies
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Obviously there is evidence. Do you not know how to do the research yourself? And, for the record you were the one to jump all over me because of our eating/lifestyle. What you agenda is, is of no concern to me. Eat clean, eat dirty, eat upside down. I don't care. As far as food additives, why don't you research on some of those found in foods like sodium benzoate or yellow dye #5 or BPA. All have direct and negative effects on health. Here's another hint for you to research; the effects of excess sodium and sugar on the human body, something most processed foods are high in. Oh, and HFCS is a real winner. You can even research the effects of antibiotics in meat and their effect on the human body or just take your chances and hope you don't actually need to use antibiotics at some point. I honestly don't care if you want to eat these ingredients. The list goes on and on. Be my guest. I 'choose' not to on the basis of scientific research that supports my position.
You appear to have an axe to grind which I hear doesn't burn all that many calories but does raise your cortisol levels
Spoken like a true ignorant zealot
Wow - your response was typed with angry fingers. Lol
But just to get this straight - anyone who doesn't agree with you and asks you to look up your own research is an ignorant zealot (I'm sure there's some logic there somewhere)!
Logic? Like this logic?
" I 'choose' not to on the basis of scientific research that supports my position. "
What does he do with the wealth of scientific research that disagrees with his position? How does he factor in what the bulk of literature says on a given subject? If it disagrees with his position, just cherry picks ones that do agree?
Again, misinformation! I am a 'she' not a 'he'
Perhaps I should do a bit of research to confirm that though. I am not cherry picking either. Go ahead, eat what you want. As I responded to others who have a huge problem with anyone who eats a bit different, I really don't care. I saw the same type of thing when vegetarianism first came into mainstream. Those who believe their way of eating is healthier are going to carry on regardless of what the naysayers say. I will say your insecurities are showing though. So lets flip this. You show me the studies that say these food additives are perfectly fine. They are not causing any cellular damage in the body and they are not have any and I do mean any negative health effects. You show me the studies that say 'eating clean' is an unhealthy way of eating. The shoe is on your foot... 0 -
Didn't you just link a study from MDA where flax seed was associated with prostate cancer.......Mark seemed to be using it to infer that ALA from flax is suspect and that fish oil was a better source of omega's........the problem with that is EPA and DHA are not essential fats and ALA is. While I agree that we should consume EPA/DHA we should also consume ALA.Obviously there is evidence. Do you not know how to do the research yourself? And, for the record you were the one to jump all over me because of our eating/lifestyle. What you agenda is, is of no concern to me. Eat clean, eat dirty, eat upside down. I don't care. As far as food additives, why don't you research on some of those found in foods like sodium benzoate or yellow dye #5 or BPA. All have direct and negative effects on health. Here's another hint for you to research; the effects of excess sodium and sugar on the human body, something most processed foods are high in. Oh, and HFCS is a real winner. You can even research the effects of antibiotics in meat and their effect on the human body or just take your chances and hope you don't actually need to use antibiotics at some point. I honestly don't care if you want to eat these ingredients. The list goes on and on. Be my guest. I 'choose' not to on the basis of scientific research that supports my position.
You appear to have an axe to grind which I hear doesn't burn all that many calories but does raise your cortisol levels
Spoken like a true ignorant zealot
Wow - your response was typed with angry fingers. Lol
But just to get this straight - anyone who doesn't agree with you and asks you to look up your own research is an ignorant zealot (I'm sure there's some logic there somewhere)!
Logic? Like this logic?
" I 'choose' not to on the basis of scientific research that supports my position. "
What does he do with the wealth of scientific research that disagrees with his position? How does he factor in what the bulk of literature says on a given subject? If it disagrees with his position, just cherry picks ones that do agree?
Lol - are we talking about Mark?
That's really funny dude!!!!
Yes but that's not I am laughing about!!! Long story.
But anyway stirrer, I think I did mention in my post that I had no knowledge on the Flax, as they have never been on my radar and that the article I sent her was a blog and should be read as such and that the OP should do her own digging.
^^^^^ bit different from claiming something to be true and accurate. 0 -
Obviously there is evidence. Do you not know how to do the research yourself? And, for the record you were the one to jump all over me because of our eating/lifestyle. What you agenda is, is of no concern to me. Eat clean, eat dirty, eat upside down. I don't care. As far as food additives, why don't you research on some of those found in foods like sodium benzoate or yellow dye #5 or BPA. All have direct and negative effects on health. Here's another hint for you to research; the effects of excess sodium and sugar on the human body, something most processed foods are high in. Oh, and HFCS is a real winner. You can even research the effects of antibiotics in meat and their effect on the human body or just take your chances and hope you don't actually need to use antibiotics at some point. I honestly don't care if you want to eat these ingredients. The list goes on and on. Be my guest. I 'choose' not to on the basis of scientific research that supports my position.
You appear to have an axe to grind which I hear doesn't burn all that many calories but does raise your cortisol levels
Spoken like a true ignorant zealot
Wow - your response was typed with angry fingers. Lol
But just to get this straight - anyone who doesn't agree with you and asks you to look up your own research is an ignorant zealot (I'm sure there's some logic there somewhere)!
Logic? Like this logic?
" I 'choose' not to on the basis of scientific research that supports my position. "
What does he do with the wealth of scientific research that disagrees with his position? How does he factor in what the bulk of literature says on a given subject? If it disagrees with his position, just cherry picks ones that do agree?
Again, misinformation! I am a 'she' not a 'he' Perhaps I should do a bit of research to confirm that though. I am not cherry picking either. Go ahead, eat what you want. As I responded to others who have a huge problem with anyone who eats a bit different, I really don't care. I saw the same type of thing when vegetarianism first came into mainstream. Those who believe their way of eating is healthier are going to carry on regardless of what the naysayers say. I will say your insecurities are showing though. So lets flip this. You show me the studies that say these food additives are perfectly fine. They are not causing any cellular damage in the body and they are not have any and I do mean any negative health effects. You show me the studies that say 'eating clean' is an unhealthy way of eating. The shoe is on your foot...
Burden of proof is on the claim maker, nice try though0 -
Obviously there is evidence. Do you not know how to do the research yourself? And, for the record you were the one to jump all over me because of our eating/lifestyle. What you agenda is, is of no concern to me. Eat clean, eat dirty, eat upside down. I don't care. As far as food additives, why don't you research on some of those found in foods like sodium benzoate or yellow dye #5 or BPA. All have direct and negative effects on health. Here's another hint for you to research; the effects of excess sodium and sugar on the human body, something most processed foods are high in. Oh, and HFCS is a real winner. You can even research the effects of antibiotics in meat and their effect on the human body or just take your chances and hope you don't actually need to use antibiotics at some point. I honestly don't care if you want to eat these ingredients. The list goes on and on. Be my guest. I 'choose' not to on the basis of scientific research that supports my position.
You appear to have an axe to grind which I hear doesn't burn all that many calories but does raise your cortisol levels
Spoken like a true ignorant zealot
Wow - your response was typed with angry fingers. Lol
But just to get this straight - anyone who doesn't agree with you and asks you to look up your own research is an ignorant zealot (I'm sure there's some logic there somewhere)!
Logic? Like this logic?
" I 'choose' not to on the basis of scientific research that supports my position. "
What does he do with the wealth of scientific research that disagrees with his position? How does he factor in what the bulk of literature says on a given subject? If it disagrees with his position, just cherry picks ones that do agree?
Again, misinformation! I am a 'she' not a 'he' Perhaps I should do a bit of research to confirm that though. I am not cherry picking either. Go ahead, eat what you want. As I responded to others who have a huge problem with anyone who eats a bit different, I really don't care. I saw the same type of thing when vegetarianism first came into mainstream. Those who believe their way of eating is healthier are going to carry on regardless of what the naysayers say. I will say your insecurities are showing though. So lets flip this. You show me the studies that say these food additives are perfectly fine. They are not causing any cellular damage in the body and they are not have any and I do mean any negative health effects. You show me the studies that say 'eating clean' is an unhealthy way of eating. The shoe is on your foot...
Don't worry about it. Even if you give them the resources, they'll say 'Oh, I don't want to read that book...please send me the cites that the book provides..."0 -
Obviously there is evidence. Do you not know how to do the research yourself? And, for the record you were the one to jump all over me because of our eating/lifestyle. What you agenda is, is of no concern to me. Eat clean, eat dirty, eat upside down. I don't care. As far as food additives, why don't you research on some of those found in foods like sodium benzoate or yellow dye #5 or BPA. All have direct and negative effects on health. Here's another hint for you to research; the effects of excess sodium and sugar on the human body, something most processed foods are high in. Oh, and HFCS is a real winner. You can even research the effects of antibiotics in meat and their effect on the human body or just take your chances and hope you don't actually need to use antibiotics at some point. I honestly don't care if you want to eat these ingredients. The list goes on and on. Be my guest. I 'choose' not to on the basis of scientific research that supports my position.
You appear to have an axe to grind which I hear doesn't burn all that many calories but does raise your cortisol levels
Spoken like a true ignorant zealot
Wow - your response was typed with angry fingers. Lol
But just to get this straight - anyone who doesn't agree with you and asks you to look up your own research is an ignorant zealot (I'm sure there's some logic there somewhere)!
Logic? Like this logic?
" I 'choose' not to on the basis of scientific research that supports my position. "
What does he do with the wealth of scientific research that disagrees with his position? How does he factor in what the bulk of literature says on a given subject? If it disagrees with his position, just cherry picks ones that do agree?
Again, misinformation! I am a 'she' not a 'he' Perhaps I should do a bit of research to confirm that though. I am not cherry picking either. Go ahead, eat what you want. As I responded to others who have a huge problem with anyone who eats a bit different, I really don't care. I saw the same type of thing when vegetarianism first came into mainstream. Those who believe their way of eating is healthier are going to carry on regardless of what the naysayers say. I will say your insecurities are showing though. So lets flip this. You show me the studies that say these food additives are perfectly fine. They are not causing any cellular damage in the body and they are not have any and I do mean any negative health effects. You show me the studies that say 'eating clean' is an unhealthy way of eating. The shoe is on your foot...
Good luck with that within a few minutes one of them will say - you claimed it so you've got to prove it!! I think is like the rule or something - DERP
LOL - How funny, as I was typing my message above one of them did!!! This day is getting funnier and funnier0 -
Your profile doesn't make it clear what sex you as you've got what looks to be a generic picture (I don't know if it is or you made it) and you keep your gender on your profile private.
I don't think anyone is claiming "eating clean" is "unhealthy". I'm certainly not going to try because I haven't found a "clean eater" that can give me a decent definition of it, so it seems pointless to go further even considering it if I wanted to - and then it would only apply to that one person.
Is it required, however, is a more important issue.
I have done my own research into this and, as it goes HAVE changed my eating habits and views based on that.
As I have already discussed, I see 'healthy' as having to be related the situation of the person in question.
If something is universally detrimental to humans to a decent degree, then I'd certainly like to know about it.
As I hope you do realise, 'healthy' covers such a wide range of areas that by nature you're not going to have research proving one item is universally good/bad, not that I've seen anyway.
What you generally do get is research focused on one area to show a specific thing is good or bad for that.
For instance on Thursday and Friday morning I did a good lot of research which lead to me having recorded 826g of carbs eaten on Friday. My research showed that I wanted to avoid fruits as fructose wasn't a good choice and neither was fibre - so refined simple carbs were ideal.
In this case 'healthy' for me was white bread, treacle tarts, low-fat ice-cream, sweets and so on.
By most definitions of 'eating clean', it would have not had as many 'health' benefits and quite possibly made me ill!0 -
Also, here's an article that could be considered to be clean vs not....
http://www.simplyshredded.com/the-science-of-nutrition-is-a-carb-a-carb.html
With lots of citations it's based on.For your body composition, it doesn’t matter if a carb is classified as simple or complex or if it has a high or low glycemic or insulin load or index. Only the total amount of carbs in your diet matters and this only matters because carbs contain calories.
For your health, the source of carbs is only relevant if you’re unhealthy. If you’re already healthy, it generally doesn’t matter.0 -
I eat clean and my definition is consuming whole and minimally processed foods. Compared to the SAD diet any definition will more than likely be healthier.....Your profile doesn't make it clear what sex you as you've got what looks to be a generic picture (I don't know if it is or you made it) and you keep your gender on your profile private.
I don't think anyone is claiming "eating clean" is "unhealthy". I'm certainly not going to try because I haven't found a "clean eater" that can give me a decent definition of it, so it seems pointless to go further even considering it if I wanted to - and then it would only apply to that one person.
Is it required, however, is a more important issue.
I have done my own research into this and, as it goes HAVE changed my eating habits and views based on that.
As I have already discussed, I see 'healthy' as having to be related the situation of the person in question.
If something is universally detrimental to humans to a decent degree, then I'd certainly like to know about it.
As I hope you do realise, 'healthy' covers such a wide range of areas that by nature you're not going to have research proving one item is universally good/bad, not that I've seen anyway.
What you generally do get is research focused on one area to show a specific thing is good or bad for that.
For instance on Thursday and Friday morning I did a good lot of research which lead to me having recorded 826g of carbs eaten on Friday. My research showed that I wanted to avoid fruits as fructose wasn't a good choice and neither was fibre - so refined simple carbs were ideal.
In this case 'healthy' for me was white bread, treacle tarts, low-fat ice-cream, sweets and so on.
By most definitions of 'eating clean', it would have not had as many 'health' benefits and quite possibly made me ill!0 -
I shouldn't bite... but what is your definition of a 'whole' food? What sort of things would you draw the line at for 'processing'?
Your diary is closed so I can't tell by what you eat.0 -
Obviously there is evidence. Do you not know how to do the research yourself? And, for the record you were the one to jump all over me because of our eating/lifestyle. What you agenda is, is of no concern to me. Eat clean, eat dirty, eat upside down. I don't care. As far as food additives, why don't you research on some of those found in foods like sodium benzoate or yellow dye #5 or BPA. All have direct and negative effects on health. Here's another hint for you to research; the effects of excess sodium and sugar on the human body, something most processed foods are high in. Oh, and HFCS is a real winner. You can even research the effects of antibiotics in meat and their effect on the human body or just take your chances and hope you don't actually need to use antibiotics at some point. I honestly don't care if you want to eat these ingredients. The list goes on and on. Be my guest. I 'choose' not to on the basis of scientific research that supports my position.
You appear to have an axe to grind which I hear doesn't burn all that many calories but does raise your cortisol levels
Spoken like a true ignorant zealot
Wow - your response was typed with angry fingers. Lol
But just to get this straight - anyone who doesn't agree with you and asks you to look up your own research is an ignorant zealot (I'm sure there's some logic there somewhere)!
Logic? Like this logic?
" I 'choose' not to on the basis of scientific research that supports my position. "
What does he do with the wealth of scientific research that disagrees with his position? How does he factor in what the bulk of literature says on a given subject? If it disagrees with his position, just cherry picks ones that do agree?
Again, misinformation! I am a 'she' not a 'he' Perhaps I should do a bit of research to confirm that though. I am not cherry picking either. Go ahead, eat what you want. As I responded to others who have a huge problem with anyone who eats a bit different, I really don't care. I saw the same type of thing when vegetarianism first came into mainstream. Those who believe their way of eating is healthier are going to carry on regardless of what the naysayers say. I will say your insecurities are showing though. So lets flip this. You show me the studies that say these food additives are perfectly fine. They are not causing any cellular damage in the body and they are not have any and I do mean any negative health effects. You show me the studies that say 'eating clean' is an unhealthy way of eating. The shoe is on your foot...
Good luck with that within a few minutes one of them will say - you claimed it so you've got to prove it!! I think is like the rule or something - DERP
LOL - How funny, as I was typing my message above one of them did!!! This day is getting funnier and funnier
When you make a claim, it is up to the claimant to provide evidence.
If I was going to claim, for example, that eating apples gives you chronic myeloid leukemia, I would be expected to provide evidence so that other posters who might be interested could read the evidence. If, when asked for the evidence, I asserted that there was plenty of evidence and people would just have to look it up for themselves, then everyone would call bs, and so they should.0 -
Is it really that complicated an answer or are you saying because everything is processed that it makes no difference what we eat?I shouldn't bite... but what is your definition of a 'whole' food? What sort of things would you draw the line at for 'processing'?
Your diary is closed so I can't tell by what you eat.0 -
Obviously there is evidence. Do you not know how to do the research yourself? And, for the record you were the one to jump all over me because of our eating/lifestyle. What you agenda is, is of no concern to me. Eat clean, eat dirty, eat upside down. I don't care. As far as food additives, why don't you research on some of those found in foods like sodium benzoate or yellow dye #5 or BPA. All have direct and negative effects on health. Here's another hint for you to research; the effects of excess sodium and sugar on the human body, something most processed foods are high in. Oh, and HFCS is a real winner. You can even research the effects of antibiotics in meat and their effect on the human body or just take your chances and hope you don't actually need to use antibiotics at some point. I honestly don't care if you want to eat these ingredients. The list goes on and on. Be my guest. I 'choose' not to on the basis of scientific research that supports my position.
You appear to have an axe to grind which I hear doesn't burn all that many calories but does raise your cortisol levels
Spoken like a true ignorant zealot
Wow - your response was typed with angry fingers. Lol
But just to get this straight - anyone who doesn't agree with you and asks you to look up your own research is an ignorant zealot (I'm sure there's some logic there somewhere)!
Logic? Like this logic?
" I 'choose' not to on the basis of scientific research that supports my position. "
What does he do with the wealth of scientific research that disagrees with his position? How does he factor in what the bulk of literature says on a given subject? If it disagrees with his position, just cherry picks ones that do agree?
Again, misinformation! I am a 'she' not a 'he' Perhaps I should do a bit of research to confirm that though. I am not cherry picking either. Go ahead, eat what you want. As I responded to others who have a huge problem with anyone who eats a bit different, I really don't care. I saw the same type of thing when vegetarianism first came into mainstream. Those who believe their way of eating is healthier are going to carry on regardless of what the naysayers say. I will say your insecurities are showing though. So lets flip this. You show me the studies that say these food additives are perfectly fine. They are not causing any cellular damage in the body and they are not have any and I do mean any negative health effects. You show me the studies that say 'eating clean' is an unhealthy way of eating. The shoe is on your foot...
Good luck with that within a few minutes one of them will say - you claimed it so you've got to prove it!! I think is like the rule or something - DERP
LOL - How funny, as I was typing my message above one of them did!!! This day is getting funnier and funnier
When you make a claim, it is up to the claimant to provide evidence.
If I was going to claim, for example, that eating apples gives you chronic myeloid leukemia, I would be expected to provide evidence so that other posters who might be interested could read the evidence. If, when asked for the evidence, I asserted that there was plenty of evidence and people would just have to look it up for themselves, then everyone would call bs, and so they should.
You are quite right.
But as you are claiming there is no evidence and therefore the claims are false the burden has switched and you are now the holder of the burden 0 -
I personally do not think the 'processing' is a good way to choose what food to consume or not, unless it's a religious thing.
Err, except that I think religion is pretty stupid, so still not then, actually.
And yes, so far I've not had a congruent answer that is consistent.
Can you provide me with one?
___
Has anyone claimed there is 'no evidence'? I, for instnace, have said I haven't seen any good evidence. Not the same as 'no evidence'.0 -
Obviously there is evidence. Do you not know how to do the research yourself? And, for the record you were the one to jump all over me because of our eating/lifestyle. What you agenda is, is of no concern to me. Eat clean, eat dirty, eat upside down. I don't care. As far as food additives, why don't you research on some of those found in foods like sodium benzoate or yellow dye #5 or BPA. All have direct and negative effects on health. Here's another hint for you to research; the effects of excess sodium and sugar on the human body, something most processed foods are high in. Oh, and HFCS is a real winner. You can even research the effects of antibiotics in meat and their effect on the human body or just take your chances and hope you don't actually need to use antibiotics at some point. I honestly don't care if you want to eat these ingredients. The list goes on and on. Be my guest. I 'choose' not to on the basis of scientific research that supports my position.
You appear to have an axe to grind which I hear doesn't burn all that many calories but does raise your cortisol levels
Spoken like a true ignorant zealot
Wow - your response was typed with angry fingers. Lol
But just to get this straight - anyone who doesn't agree with you and asks you to look up your own research is an ignorant zealot (I'm sure there's some logic there somewhere)!
Logic? Like this logic?
" I 'choose' not to on the basis of scientific research that supports my position. "
What does he do with the wealth of scientific research that disagrees with his position? How does he factor in what the bulk of literature says on a given subject? If it disagrees with his position, just cherry picks ones that do agree?
Again, misinformation! I am a 'she' not a 'he' Perhaps I should do a bit of research to confirm that though. I am not cherry picking either. Go ahead, eat what you want. As I responded to others who have a huge problem with anyone who eats a bit different, I really don't care. I saw the same type of thing when vegetarianism first came into mainstream. Those who believe their way of eating is healthier are going to carry on regardless of what the naysayers say. I will say your insecurities are showing though. So lets flip this. You show me the studies that say these food additives are perfectly fine. They are not causing any cellular damage in the body and they are not have any and I do mean any negative health effects. You show me the studies that say 'eating clean' is an unhealthy way of eating. The shoe is on your foot...
Don't worry about it. Even if you give them the resources, they'll say 'Oh, I don't want to read that book...please send me the cites that the book provides..."
I hate to break it to you but books like the ones you suggest are usually written by people to make money. It's all about the money, and a hypothesis with cherry picked data to support that hypothesis. I prefer to obtain my nutritional information from a range of sources, mainly journal articles and textbooks because it provides balance.0 -
I personally do not think the 'processing' is a good way to choose what food to consume or not, unless it's a religious thing.
Err, except that I think religion is pretty stupid, so still not then, actually.
And yes, so far I've not had a congruent answer that is consistent.
Can you provide me with one?
___
Has anyone claimed there is 'no evidence'? I, for instnace, have said I haven't seen any good evidence. Not the same as 'no evidence'.
Yes Charlotte did just before popping on her trainers
I was asking for evidence for claims made that a certain way to eat is healthier. Obviously there is none so I suppose I should just walk away.....putting my trainers on as I type.....0 -
Obviously there is evidence. Do you not know how to do the research yourself? And, for the record you were the one to jump all over me because of our eating/lifestyle. What you agenda is, is of no concern to me. Eat clean, eat dirty, eat upside down. I don't care. As far as food additives, why don't you research on some of those found in foods like sodium benzoate or yellow dye #5 or BPA. All have direct and negative effects on health. Here's another hint for you to research; the effects of excess sodium and sugar on the human body, something most processed foods are high in. Oh, and HFCS is a real winner. You can even research the effects of antibiotics in meat and their effect on the human body or just take your chances and hope you don't actually need to use antibiotics at some point. I honestly don't care if you want to eat these ingredients. The list goes on and on. Be my guest. I 'choose' not to on the basis of scientific research that supports my position.
You appear to have an axe to grind which I hear doesn't burn all that many calories but does raise your cortisol levels
Spoken like a true ignorant zealot
Wow - your response was typed with angry fingers. Lol
But just to get this straight - anyone who doesn't agree with you and asks you to look up your own research is an ignorant zealot (I'm sure there's some logic there somewhere)!
Logic? Like this logic?
" I 'choose' not to on the basis of scientific research that supports my position. "
What does he do with the wealth of scientific research that disagrees with his position? How does he factor in what the bulk of literature says on a given subject? If it disagrees with his position, just cherry picks ones that do agree?
Again, misinformation! I am a 'she' not a 'he' Perhaps I should do a bit of research to confirm that though. I am not cherry picking either. Go ahead, eat what you want. As I responded to others who have a huge problem with anyone who eats a bit different, I really don't care. I saw the same type of thing when vegetarianism first came into mainstream. Those who believe their way of eating is healthier are going to carry on regardless of what the naysayers say. I will say your insecurities are showing though. So lets flip this. You show me the studies that say these food additives are perfectly fine. They are not causing any cellular damage in the body and they are not have any and I do mean any negative health effects. You show me the studies that say 'eating clean' is an unhealthy way of eating. The shoe is on your foot...
Don't worry about it. Even if you give them the resources, they'll say 'Oh, I don't want to read that book...please send me the cites that the book provides..."
I hate to break it to you but books like the ones you suggest are usually written by people to make money. It's all about the money, and a hypothesis with cherry picked data to support that hypothesis. I prefer to obtain my nutritional information from a range of sources, mainly journal articles and textbooks because it provides balance.
^^^^ wow a first today - but I agree.
I would also like to say personally I find the study of one works as well.0 -
Wow, I can really smell the desperation. :laugh:Obviously there is evidence. Do you not know how to do the research yourself? And, for the record you were the one to jump all over me because of our eating/lifestyle. What you agenda is, is of no concern to me. Eat clean, eat dirty, eat upside down. I don't care. As far as food additives, why don't you research on some of those found in foods like sodium benzoate or yellow dye #5 or BPA. All have direct and negative effects on health. Here's another hint for you to research; the effects of excess sodium and sugar on the human body, something most processed foods are high in. Oh, and HFCS is a real winner. You can even research the effects of antibiotics in meat and their effect on the human body or just take your chances and hope you don't actually need to use antibiotics at some point. I honestly don't care if you want to eat these ingredients. The list goes on and on. Be my guest. I 'choose' not to on the basis of scientific research that supports my position.
You appear to have an axe to grind which I hear doesn't burn all that many calories but does raise your cortisol levels
Spoken like a true ignorant zealot
Wow - your response was typed with angry fingers. Lol
But just to get this straight - anyone who doesn't agree with you and asks you to look up your own research is an ignorant zealot (I'm sure there's some logic there somewhere)!
Logic? Like this logic?
" I 'choose' not to on the basis of scientific research that supports my position. "
What does he do with the wealth of scientific research that disagrees with his position? How does he factor in what the bulk of literature says on a given subject? If it disagrees with his position, just cherry picks ones that do agree?
Again, misinformation! I am a 'she' not a 'he' Perhaps I should do a bit of research to confirm that though. I am not cherry picking either. Go ahead, eat what you want. As I responded to others who have a huge problem with anyone who eats a bit different, I really don't care. I saw the same type of thing when vegetarianism first came into mainstream. Those who believe their way of eating is healthier are going to carry on regardless of what the naysayers say. I will say your insecurities are showing though. So lets flip this. You show me the studies that say these food additives are perfectly fine. They are not causing any cellular damage in the body and they are not have any and I do mean any negative health effects. You show me the studies that say 'eating clean' is an unhealthy way of eating. The shoe is on your foot...
Good luck with that within a few minutes one of them will say - you claimed it so you've got to prove it!! I think is like the rule or something - DERP
LOL - How funny, as I was typing my message above one of them did!!! This day is getting funnier and funnier
When you make a claim, it is up to the claimant to provide evidence.
If I was going to claim, for example, that eating apples gives you chronic myeloid leukemia, I would be expected to provide evidence so that other posters who might be interested could read the evidence. If, when asked for the evidence, I asserted that there was plenty of evidence and people would just have to look it up for themselves, then everyone would call bs, and so they should.
You are quite right.
But as you are claiming there is no evidence and therefore the claims are false the burden has switched and you are now the holder of the burden
Nevertheless I'll play (but I must go to bed in a minute). If you go back a few pages you will see that in fact I simply questioned the claims and asked the claimant to provide evidence to support the claims. As nutrition and genetics are both interests of mine, I would have been particularly interested in reading the evidence that the claimant could provide. Instead of providing that evidence she (and you) got defensive. That, of course, speaks volumes.0 -
I hear ya, I do. No, I couldn't give you a definitive answer for clean, only my meaning. To me healthier is just selecting the lions share of my food that are more nutrient dense than calorie dense, which generally points to more whole foods. Processed well, for example, last night we had fish and chips. The fish was pickerel that we caught ice fishing a month ago to which I suspended in water and froze. I use lard in my deep fryer and cooked up a mess of fish and chips......to me this is minimally processed and natural....yes I used a breading of panko. I grow veg and also get it locally but sometimes I buy canned, for example I really like the san marzano tomatoes from Italy and only come from there. There's a few examples of me eating clean.I personally do not think the 'processing' is a good way to choose what food to consume or not, unless it's a religious thing.
Err, except that I think religion is pretty stupid, so still not then, actually.
And yes, so far I've not had a congruent answer that is consistent.
Can you provide me with one?
___
Has anyone claimed there is 'no evidence'? I, for instnace, have said I haven't seen any good evidence. Not the same as 'no evidence'.0 -
Obviously there is evidence. Do you not know how to do the research yourself? And, for the record you were the one to jump all over me because of our eating/lifestyle. What you agenda is, is of no concern to me. Eat clean, eat dirty, eat upside down. I don't care. As far as food additives, why don't you research on some of those found in foods like sodium benzoate or yellow dye #5 or BPA. All have direct and negative effects on health. Here's another hint for you to research; the effects of excess sodium and sugar on the human body, something most processed foods are high in. Oh, and HFCS is a real winner. You can even research the effects of antibiotics in meat and their effect on the human body or just take your chances and hope you don't actually need to use antibiotics at some point. I honestly don't care if you want to eat these ingredients. The list goes on and on. Be my guest. I 'choose' not to on the basis of scientific research that supports my position.
You appear to have an axe to grind which I hear doesn't burn all that many calories but does raise your cortisol levels
Spoken like a true ignorant zealot
Wow - your response was typed with angry fingers. Lol
But just to get this straight - anyone who doesn't agree with you and asks you to look up your own research is an ignorant zealot (I'm sure there's some logic there somewhere)!
Logic? Like this logic?
" I 'choose' not to on the basis of scientific research that supports my position. "
What does he do with the wealth of scientific research that disagrees with his position? How does he factor in what the bulk of literature says on a given subject? If it disagrees with his position, just cherry picks ones that do agree?
Again, misinformation! I am a 'she' not a 'he' Perhaps I should do a bit of research to confirm that though. I am not cherry picking either. Go ahead, eat what you want. As I responded to others who have a huge problem with anyone who eats a bit different, I really don't care. I saw the same type of thing when vegetarianism first came into mainstream. Those who believe their way of eating is healthier are going to carry on regardless of what the naysayers say. I will say your insecurities are showing though. So lets flip this. You show me the studies that say these food additives are perfectly fine. They are not causing any cellular damage in the body and they are not have any and I do mean any negative health effects. You show me the studies that say 'eating clean' is an unhealthy way of eating. The shoe is on your foot...
Don't worry about it. Even if you give them the resources, they'll say 'Oh, I don't want to read that book...please send me the cites that the book provides..."
I hate to break it to you but books like the ones you suggest are usually written by people to make money. It's all about the money, and a hypothesis with cherry picked data to support that hypothesis. I prefer to obtain my nutritional information from a range of sources, mainly journal articles and textbooks because it provides balance.
Wait, people write books to make money? You don't say!
Do you think text books and journals are charities? Simply because they make money at it doesn't negate the value of the content in the book.
Reject the book for the content, not because someone wants to get paid for doing the work of writing. If this is your only complaint, this is completely asinine.
As for cherry picking data, of course, that's the basis of books. They put forth a hypothesis and then select data that supports it. That is the basis of persuasive writing.0 -
Wow, I can really smell the desperation. :laugh:Obviously there is evidence. Do you not know how to do the research yourself? And, for the record you were the one to jump all over me because of our eating/lifestyle. What you agenda is, is of no concern to me. Eat clean, eat dirty, eat upside down. I don't care. As far as food additives, why don't you research on some of those found in foods like sodium benzoate or yellow dye #5 or BPA. All have direct and negative effects on health. Here's another hint for you to research; the effects of excess sodium and sugar on the human body, something most processed foods are high in. Oh, and HFCS is a real winner. You can even research the effects of antibiotics in meat and their effect on the human body or just take your chances and hope you don't actually need to use antibiotics at some point. I honestly don't care if you want to eat these ingredients. The list goes on and on. Be my guest. I 'choose' not to on the basis of scientific research that supports my position.
You appear to have an axe to grind which I hear doesn't burn all that many calories but does raise your cortisol levels
Spoken like a true ignorant zealot
Wow - your response was typed with angry fingers. Lol
But just to get this straight - anyone who doesn't agree with you and asks you to look up your own research is an ignorant zealot (I'm sure there's some logic there somewhere)!
Logic? Like this logic?
" I 'choose' not to on the basis of scientific research that supports my position. "
What does he do with the wealth of scientific research that disagrees with his position? How does he factor in what the bulk of literature says on a given subject? If it disagrees with his position, just cherry picks ones that do agree?
Again, misinformation! I am a 'she' not a 'he' Perhaps I should do a bit of research to confirm that though. I am not cherry picking either. Go ahead, eat what you want. As I responded to others who have a huge problem with anyone who eats a bit different, I really don't care. I saw the same type of thing when vegetarianism first came into mainstream. Those who believe their way of eating is healthier are going to carry on regardless of what the naysayers say. I will say your insecurities are showing though. So lets flip this. You show me the studies that say these food additives are perfectly fine. They are not causing any cellular damage in the body and they are not have any and I do mean any negative health effects. You show me the studies that say 'eating clean' is an unhealthy way of eating. The shoe is on your foot...
Good luck with that within a few minutes one of them will say - you claimed it so you've got to prove it!! I think is like the rule or something - DERP
LOL - How funny, as I was typing my message above one of them did!!! This day is getting funnier and funnier
When you make a claim, it is up to the claimant to provide evidence.
If I was going to claim, for example, that eating apples gives you chronic myeloid leukemia, I would be expected to provide evidence so that other posters who might be interested could read the evidence. If, when asked for the evidence, I asserted that there was plenty of evidence and people would just have to look it up for themselves, then everyone would call bs, and so they should.
You are quite right.
But as you are claiming there is no evidence and therefore the claims are false the burden has switched and you are now the holder of the burden
Nevertheless I'll play (but I must go to bed in a minute). If you go back a few pages you will see that in fact I simply questioned the claims and asked the claimant to provide evidence to support the claims. As nutrition and genetics are both interests of mine, I would have been particularly interested in reading the evidence that the claimant could provide. Instead of providing that evidence she (and you) got defensive. That, of course, speaks volumes.
Sorry, but you guys are the one's that played the burden of proof card!
And with you goes the Burden - night, night.0 -
why do people get soo upset when someone mentions Paleo diet!!?? If that's what they wanna do then the more power to them , who are we to judge?? Geesh!!
We don't judge the diet. We judge the imaginary "caveman" philosophical underpinnings and the bogus reasons to avoid commonly eaten staples.
I judge the diet. Caveman aside it makes completely false assertions like legumes are unhealthy. Legumes are not unheatlhy or toxic.
I don't care if people eat legumes or not, and I don't care what diet strangers choose to follow. But I judge the paleo diet to be a pack of lies! Beans are good food!!
You may not agree with the explanation, but there is a basis. That basis has to do with lectins. You may disagree with the ultimate conclusion that lectins are unhealthy, but there is a reasonable basis for the assertion of why they should be avoided.
No, there is not. Lectins are in many non-legume foods. Mushrooms, asparagus, radishes, zucchini, cherries, coffee beans, strawberries, walnuts, sunflower seeds ... the list is quite long. It's pretty much impossible to avoid lectins in food.
It's a completely ridiculous claim. Beans are not unhealthy food.0 -
When I was starting out on MFP, I often sought guidance by looking through the profiles and diaries of MFP forum posters to compare and contrast what they are doing and their personal goals with what I am doing and MY personal goals.
I found the information invaluable. For example, I thought I'd NEVER take strength training seriously, but after seeing the differences it's made in people's bodies, I changed my mind.
I've even checked out the profiles and diaries of people who are vegetarian and vegan to see how they get the nutrients they need. I've learned a lot.
Now, Paleo/Primal/Clean folks, this is NOT an attack. It's an observation (and eventually a suggestion...)
You claim that there are all kinds of studies out there that say that the foods I eat are unhealthy choices... that your choices are healthy and science backs that up, but you refuse to post articles that support that claim.
Okay, fine... maybe your profiles will provide some insight into how this method of eating is beneficial...
Very few of you have open diaries. You don't have pictures of yourself (or if you do, it's physically non-descript). Your profile is private.
Meanwhile, throughout the threads, I've seen posts by people numerous others that include links to publications, not to mention that they have photo and diary evidence that supports their claims.
Don't you think that perhaps you would be more encouraging and supportive of people who are considering / might consider your way if you actually provided SOMETHING that gave you some credibility, besides just saying, "this is my experience" in threads like this?0 -
Wow, I can really smell the desperation. :laugh:Obviously there is evidence. Do you not know how to do the research yourself? And, for the record you were the one to jump all over me because of our eating/lifestyle. What you agenda is, is of no concern to me. Eat clean, eat dirty, eat upside down. I don't care. As far as food additives, why don't you research on some of those found in foods like sodium benzoate or yellow dye #5 or BPA. All have direct and negative effects on health. Here's another hint for you to research; the effects of excess sodium and sugar on the human body, something most processed foods are high in. Oh, and HFCS is a real winner. You can even research the effects of antibiotics in meat and their effect on the human body or just take your chances and hope you don't actually need to use antibiotics at some point. I honestly don't care if you want to eat these ingredients. The list goes on and on. Be my guest. I 'choose' not to on the basis of scientific research that supports my position.
You appear to have an axe to grind which I hear doesn't burn all that many calories but does raise your cortisol levels
Spoken like a true ignorant zealot
Wow - your response was typed with angry fingers. Lol
But just to get this straight - anyone who doesn't agree with you and asks you to look up your own research is an ignorant zealot (I'm sure there's some logic there somewhere)!
Logic? Like this logic?
" I 'choose' not to on the basis of scientific research that supports my position. "
What does he do with the wealth of scientific research that disagrees with his position? How does he factor in what the bulk of literature says on a given subject? If it disagrees with his position, just cherry picks ones that do agree?
Again, misinformation! I am a 'she' not a 'he' Perhaps I should do a bit of research to confirm that though. I am not cherry picking either. Go ahead, eat what you want. As I responded to others who have a huge problem with anyone who eats a bit different, I really don't care. I saw the same type of thing when vegetarianism first came into mainstream. Those who believe their way of eating is healthier are going to carry on regardless of what the naysayers say. I will say your insecurities are showing though. So lets flip this. You show me the studies that say these food additives are perfectly fine. They are not causing any cellular damage in the body and they are not have any and I do mean any negative health effects. You show me the studies that say 'eating clean' is an unhealthy way of eating. The shoe is on your foot...
Good luck with that within a few minutes one of them will say - you claimed it so you've got to prove it!! I think is like the rule or something - DERP
LOL - How funny, as I was typing my message above one of them did!!! This day is getting funnier and funnier
When you make a claim, it is up to the claimant to provide evidence.
If I was going to claim, for example, that eating apples gives you chronic myeloid leukemia, I would be expected to provide evidence so that other posters who might be interested could read the evidence. If, when asked for the evidence, I asserted that there was plenty of evidence and people would just have to look it up for themselves, then everyone would call bs, and so they should.
You are quite right.
But as you are claiming there is no evidence and therefore the claims are false the burden has switched and you are now the holder of the burden
Nevertheless I'll play (but I must go to bed in a minute). If you go back a few pages you will see that in fact I simply questioned the claims and asked the claimant to provide evidence to support the claims. As nutrition and genetics are both interests of mine, I would have been particularly interested in reading the evidence that the claimant could provide. Instead of providing that evidence she (and you) got defensive. That, of course, speaks volumes.
They say a skunk smells its own stink first As the claimant, I am not getting defensive. I am rather amused though. How was your run? 0 -
I hear ya, I do. No, I couldn't give you a definitive answer for clean, only my meaning. To me healthier is just selecting the lions share of my food that are more nutrient dense than calorie dense, which generally points to more whole foods. Processed well, for example, last night we had fish and chips. The fish was pickerel that we caught ice fishing a month ago to which I suspended in water and froze. I use lard in my deep fryer and cooked up a mess of fish and chips......to me this is minimally processed and natural....yes I used a breading of panko. I grow veg and also get it locally but sometimes I buy canned, for example I really like the san marzano tomatoes from Italy and only come from there. There's a few examples of me eating clean.I personally do not think the 'processing' is a good way to choose what food to consume or not, unless it's a religious thing.
Err, except that I think religion is pretty stupid, so still not then, actually.
And yes, so far I've not had a congruent answer that is consistent.
Can you provide me with one?
___
Has anyone claimed there is 'no evidence'? I, for instnace, have said I haven't seen any good evidence. Not the same as 'no evidence'.
Pickerel is delicious! We are lucky that we get to enjoy it several times a year, all fresh caught and froze the way you do. I don't use panko though but rather organic unbleached flour. We had perch a couple of nights ago coated with almond flour. That was tasty! I have heard a lot about the san marzano tomatoes but haven't tried them as we don't buy commercially canned foods. It might be worth finding the seeds 0 -
<snip>Paleo is basically eating healthily via Low Carb and High Fat. <snip>
This brings up a question I've often wondered about. Given that most wild meat is very lean, where did the caveman get so much fat?
This is a serious question.0 -
<snip>Paleo is basically eating healthily via Low Carb and High Fat. <snip>
This brings up a question I've often wondered about. Given that most wild meat is very lean, where did the caveman get so much fat?
This is a serious question.
Organ meats tend to have a lot of fat content. My guess is that's where they got it.0 -
<snip>Paleo is basically eating healthily via Low Carb and High Fat. <snip>
This brings up a question I've often wondered about. Given that most wild meat is very lean, where did the caveman get so much fat?
This is a serious question.
I am no expert, but I would hazard a guess that when they ate the animal they ate the whole thing. Flesh (depending on the animal maybe skin - maybe not if it was too furry. lol), sinew, organs (offal), bone marrow.
I don't eat this style to wear as a badge by the way, but I eat primal Blue Print and it is very much recommended to eat as much of the animal as possible (they have a great recipe for bone marrow soup).
That is best guess I'm afraid.0 -
<snip>Paleo is basically eating healthily via Low Carb and High Fat. <snip>
This brings up a question I've often wondered about. Given that most wild meat is very lean, where did the caveman get so much fat?
This is a serious question.
I am no expert, but I would hazard a guess that when they ate the animal they ate the whole thing. Flesh, sinew, organs (offal), bone marrow.
I don't eat this style to wear as a badge by the way, but I eat primal Blue Print and it is very much recommended to eat as much of the animal as possible (they have a great recipe for bone marrow soup).
That is best guess I'm afraid.
And there is a lot of fat in the organs and marrow? My husband eats some of the organs of deer he kills and they never seem very fatty.0 -
Wow, I can really smell the desperation. :laugh:
You are quite right.
But as you are claiming there is no evidence and therefore the claims are false the burden has switched and you are now the holder of the burden
Nevertheless I'll play (but I must go to bed in a minute). If you go back a few pages you will see that in fact I simply questioned the claims and asked the claimant to provide evidence to support the claims. As nutrition and genetics are both interests of mine, I would have been particularly interested in reading the evidence that the claimant could provide. Instead of providing that evidence she (and you) got defensive. That, of course, speaks volumes.
They say a skunk smells its own stink first As the claimant, I am not getting defensive. I am rather amused though. How was your run?
It was good but nowhere near as fun as watching your complete inability to back up your bs.
I'll now take my GMO affected enterocytes to bed. :laugh:0 -
Edit: lol0
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