Paleo vs. Clean eating?

establishingaplace

Clean eating means something different to every person you ask, but generally it means no processed foods.

I tried a 90-day eat clean challenge at the end of last year. I dropped a few pounds right away and then went off track on a couple of binges and stalled, went back to good and dropped a couple of pounds, went off track again and gained a couple of pounds back. It was a good experiment in that I found some fantastic healthy recipes (black bean brownies, cauliflower pizza crust, turning zucchini into noodles with a spiralizer, etc.), but it was clearly not sustainable enough for me to lose the weight I want to without taking a lot of binge breaks.

Paleo I could never do personally. I like my grains, my boyfriend makes delicious homemade bread, there's no reason to cut legumes as far as I'm concerned, and at the end of the day if I want an evil sugar-and-white-flour cupcake, give me the cupcake. I limit my intake of soy (hypothyroidism), sugar (PCOS), and dairy (mild lactose intolerance), but no food is 100% off limits. Life is too short to flip out over how my broccoli was treated or whether my sugar granules are missing a mineral or two.

tennisdude2004

IIFYM

I have a gif for that but sadly I think it will be deleted - all gifs 'in moderation' right.

I think I have posted - a number of times - I am not anti calorie counting (it just is not for me) I understand it works for a lot of people and that's great.

IIFYM is certainly one way of achieving your goal. If you are unable to cut back on your carbs and your happy and healthy with that then that's another way. If you want to eat low carb, high fat that again is another way.

All and yes I will use the words ALL diets have restrictions - some cannot live with the restriction of cutting out certain foods and that's fine.

I personally cannot live with the restriction of having to stop eating when I am still hungry, because have reached my calorie target for the day!!! Different horses for different courses.

All diets require a sacrifice - you just chose the one that's easier to bear.

Well I think I'm face palmed out for the evening.

Night all.

Honestly, if you are hungry, you should eat even if that means going over. One day won't hurt. There are weeks I do not lose weight because it's more important to me to enjoy foods. For me, this is a long term goal, not a short term thing. For example, in two weeks we are having a going away party for a colleague of mine. It is going to be an all you can eat Korean buffet. I would be heart broken if I don't hit 10,000 calories. I am getting my moneys worth. It may be my only meal that day, but its soooo worth it.

• Flexibility
- our system can support any diet like Atkins, the South Beach Diet, the Zone, and more. No matter what diet you're on, we can help.

neanderthin

I tried paleo for about 6 months because my wife had a gluten intolerance from a heart condition. Personally, i found the diet way to restrictive and costly, if you follow the book. Additionally, there were many restrictions of foods I personally loved. Due to all that, I found myself binging more often and preventing me from reaching my goals. I find when I eat bread, Chipotle Burritos and other stuff in moderation, i have done much better. My overall goal is making sure I hit my protein and fat goals or come close and then let the rest be carbs. I eat 2500 ish calories a day, and aim for 30-50g of fiber. I eat a lot of lean meats, fruits, veggies, and throw in breads and rices almost daily.

Having said that, if something is working, it wouldn't be wise to switch. If you want to make some small substitutions of processed foods to whole foods (however it's defined) then it's great. Realistically, you should be looking to eat foods rich in nutrients; both from a macornutrient and micronutrient level.

It would certainly be sensible to cut or reduce foods containing processed carbs (grains, added sugar, certain starches) as these are the food that can increase inflammation and oxidation in the body.

Personally I would suggest low carb high fat (including saturated fat, but excluding trans fats). Also a medium level of protein.

You should be able to change your macros in to accommodate this healthier lifestyle diet!!!

This style of diet should reduce your overall appetite so you will probably find you will not have to deal with the restriction of having to stop eating once you hit you calorie target when you are still hungry.

I can't do low carb for several reason. First, it comes down to restricting foods that I love such as rice and breads; restriction for me leads to binges. Second, I have intense workouts and when I don't average 200g of carbs a day, I feel lethargic and can't push as hard during my workouts (same thing also happens when I workout fasted).

Like I mentioned, and you can look at my diary, my goal is eating protein and fats. I just so happen to eat 200 - 300g of carbs a day and constantly lose 1 lb a week. Also for the most part, I limit saturate fats based on some research I have done (such as the below).

Honestly, I feel plenty full with the way I eat. And considering I lose weight, my cholesterol numbers are constantly declining, my HR is 70, bp is 110/70.. i honestly can't see a reason to change.

Also, if you can provide some studies or information on the grains causing inflammation on healthy people without medical conditions (from a reputable source), I would love to read it and may take it into consideration.

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/obesity-prevention-source/obesity-causes/diet-and-weight/

Personally based on Walter Willett's track record for slanting everything in favor of a vegan diet I would take what Harvard says with a grain of salt and Willett also heads up the Nurses Health Study and is renowned for the HRT fiasco.

FoxyLifter

Can't you eat 'clean' and be 'paleo'? It seems they have rather similar ideals, actually.

Paleos eat "clean," but not all "clean-eaters" eat Paleo, if that makes sense

True, but the point is that they're not mutually exclusive.

ETA: OP, it's your body, but I find that restricting foods for non-medical reasons isn't the best idea. Whatever you do, choose something you can do for life. If you want to quit eating a trigger food, that's a different story, but a whole group of items? No thanks. Best of luck! :drinker:

momma2azoo

The one thing I always ask myself when contemplating dietary changes is.... Will I make this change for a lifetime?

If the answer is no, then the change probably isn't worth doing because I won't stick to it anyway. Give up bread forever? Oh heck no. Never eat ice cream again? Insanity.

I try to eat healthy the majority of the time. I like whole, real foods. I love to cook so I make most family meals from scratch (and I have a big family, 5 kiddos, so it's healthier and cheaper to cook). Tonight we had roasted chicken breasts with roasted veggies (cauliflower, asparagus, carrots, red potatoes, green beans and onions). It was delicious and all real food. Some people on trendy diets would argue about the potatoes. One of my sons wanted a piece of bread with his dinner (100% whole grain junk free bread), that would flip a lot of trendy diet people out (wheat, gasp, wheat). Another son wanted a glass of milk with dinner (it's raw and organic...but oh my gosh do some people flip out about dairy). We all ate BBQ sauce that had sugar (oh gosh...sugar...run). Frankly, none of us have issues with wheat and all of my kids handle dairy just fine (I don't, so I do not consume it). I'm not going to eliminate entire food groups that contain a lot of nutrients in them based on fad diet whims, especially when we digest those foods just fine.

We also eat junk on occasion. I love chocolate, Cheetos and soda. So shoot me. I pick my battles. I can't control the pollution in the air, soil or water. I can eat clean, but I can't eliminate all toxins. I do the best I can, enjoy my junk on occasion and avoid pretty much anything with nonsense trendy hipster names. Except at Starbucks. I just go with the hipster flow there, they have me hooked.

lindsey1979

For the debate of restriction vs. no restriction, I personally find that the decision turns on what the benefits you receive from the restriction -- whether that result makes it worth it to you. If you can achieve the same goal in a different manner, you may opt to ditch the restriction. But if the restriction gives you what you want, you often will stick with it due to that positive feedback loop.

For example, when I went Paleo/Primal, I was shocked by how much better I felt. Just shocked. So, it was easy for me to keep eating that way because I just felt so much better than I did before -- my whole concept of "normal" for me shifted dramatically. And when I go back to eating grains, I go back to feeling poorly. So, that's an easy restriction for me to adopt into a lifestyle.

I now know I have an underlying condition that probably contributed to that or was the sole cause as I have Hashimoto's thyroiditis -- an autoimmune thyroid disorder. Research isn't definitive, but some thyroid specialists believe that gluten or other items in grains set it off -- just as it is suspected to do for other autoimmune disorders like Celiac, certain rheumatoid arthritis, etc.

Are there other things I avoid that maybe I don't need to avoid? Maybe. I started to add back in dairy and found I had no problems with it, so that's when I shifted from stricter Paleo to the more permissive Primal. I don't generally eat legumes, but they aren't generally things I miss. The only exception is peanut butter. But I like almonds, cashews and macadamia nuts just as much if not more, so the substitution is an easy on for me.

I had a similar experience when I started to cut back the carbs, and then later learned I was insulin resistant. And a low carb diet is specifically recommended for that disorder. Again, the diagnosis came long after the diet change (and, man, do I wish I'd known about these issues 10+ years ago -- would have saved me a LOT of grief).

So, my guess for a lot of people that love Paleo/Primal, keto, low carb, etc. lifestyles it's because there is a real reason they react so much better to those diets -- some reasons that they know about, some that they don't and some that they may never know about (i.e. disorders/sensitivities that are too mild for a formal diagnosis or whose symptoms largely clear up with the different diet). After all, I was told for YEARS everything was fine by my doctors. My fiance feels similarly. He doesn't have any issues that we know of but he says he just feels a ton better eating Primally, especially without the grains. He doesn't know what it is specifically that does it -- but the combo works great for him and he saw increases in his sports performance which was the big deal (he comes from some serious genetic freaks in that department).

Others without any sensitivities or underlying conditions try the diets and go "what's the big deal?" because they feel the same on them as they did on their previous diet. So, to those people that have the luck to be able to tolerate different diets rather well, the restriction seems silly, faulty or just plain not worth it.

But, at least for me, I never would have realized that a change in my diet could lead to feeling SO SO much better. And, it is what ultimately pushed me to push my doctors on figuring out what was up with me as for the previous 6-8 years, they told me everything was "fine" when it really wasn't and I'm finally getting the treatment that is needed and on the best diet for my situation. I think you'll find a lot of similar stories on Paleo/Primal websites -- people just feeling much better or having previous issues just clear up or get remarkably better, and they never really know why necessarily.

geebusuk

but generally it means no processed foods.

Unfortunately I've yet to see a definition of 'processed food' that people use which can actually pass scrutiny:).

The one thing I always ask myself when contemplating dietary changes is.... Will I make this change for a lifetime?

If the answer is no,

If it is a 'diet' for weight loss, then by nature it's not something I want to change for my life time.
In some cases that may mean changing to more filling foods, where they may be less 'needed' without a calorie deficit.

littlekitty3

Everyone has their own definition. Paleo is "what cavemen eat" no one truly knows exactly what we ate since 1) bones last forever and 2) evolution is an amazing thing guys and not all of you suffer from celiac disease. Clean eating on the other hand also has a ton of silly things like people who include artificial sweeteners and others who include processed whey (seriously some paleo people do this too).

My 2 cents:
Ditch the "diet fads" and just eat minimally processed whole foods. That includes your protein powder, it's kind of overrated.

Mischievous_Rascal

This is, so far, the least argumentative forum on this topic I've seen in a while! (***pats on the backs for you all***)

OP: Trying to incorporate cleaner eating in whatever form is always a good thing, but make sure it's something that YOU can sustain long term.

tennisdude2004

but generally it means no processed foods.

Unfortunately I've yet to see a definition of 'processed food' that people use which can actually pass scrutiny:).

The one thing I always ask myself when contemplating dietary changes is.... Will I make this change for a lifetime?

If the answer is no,

If it is a 'diet' for weight loss, then by nature it's not something I want to change for my life time.
In some cases that may mean changing to more filling foods, where they may be less 'needed' without a calorie deficit.

Since you seem to have very little understanding of the diet - let me explain.

Paleo and similar diets like Primal are generally used as a lifestyle change for eating healthier and having a more balanced body.

The spin off is that a lot of people will in the process get to their ideal body composition.

Granted most people will start on the diet for weight loss purposes - but that is not what the diets have been designed for as a first priority.

I eat primal - as adults we are given the choice to eat or not eat certain foods to achieve our goals. It is recommended we do not eat certain foods (grains, processed simple carbs, trans fats). We are given an understanding of what these nutrient deficient foods can and cannot do for us and given the choice to eat them or not.

I used to love McDonalds breakfasts. Since eating primal I no longer have cravings for them and as I know how nutrient deficient they are (based on how many calories you get from them) I CHOOSE not to have them.

That said I love their coffee so I do go into a McDonalds most weeks (and the funny thing is I don't even feel the urge to get more than a coffee - restriction or freedom of choice?

The same goes for domino's Pizza - I used to buy a whole one (largest size) - meat feast with a BBQ sauce base. My wife would have 1 slice and in the course of the evening I would find myself mindlessly eating the rest.

I would regret it in the morning and wish I hadn't eaten it. I don't buy them now - because I really want to but my diet restricts me from doing it - NO!!

Because I no longer have the craving for it. I could buy one if I wanted but for the calories it would be what nutrient benefit would I get from it - I would certainly not get any extra enjoyment out of it, compared to having a steak (with the fat on and all crispy) with a side of buttered mushrooms and buttered carrots - with a glass of wine and some dark chocolate for afters.

Now after eating the pizza I would normally still feel peckish and would maybe have some chocolate and crisps. I doubt I would be feeling very happy if halfway through that pizza I had reached my calorie target for the day and had to stop eating at a point my insulin was spiking and my brain was screaming out for more carbs.

Still each to their own.

geebusuk

OP: Trying to incorporate cleaner eating in whatever form is always a good thing, but make sure it's something that YOU can sustain long term.

Now you're just trying to disprove your first point!

Why is it "always a good thing"?
Do you have any good evidence to back your claim up?

jmv7117

So I've been reading up on Paleo.. it looks pretty interesting? Do any of you do Paleo? or Eat Clean.. Im having a little bit trouble finding the true definition of Eating Clean.. Correct me if I'm wrong.. does it mean no processed food... as in nothing coming from a box? or is it something else?

I'm hesitant to jump on the band wagon since i have a lot of stuff in my pantry but I'm really fascinated by it. Can anyone of you give me some insight or share your experience how you started or transitioned in to Paleo or Eating Clean

Thank you
Happy

Our friends' daughter and her family eat Paleo. Her kids are the same age as our grandkids. They eat Paleo while our grandkids eat like us, pretty much clean most of the time. Her kids are always sick! I honestly can't believe how often they are sick whereas our grandkids are seldom sick. As far as clean goes, we were eating that way before it became trendy and I hesitate to call it clean eating. We rely heavily on locally produced foods free of food additives and avoid artificial anything. We prefer home grown, organic and organic foods. We buy directly from food producers so very little of our food dollar is spent at a conventional grocery store. We do try to adhere to foods produced within a 100 mile radius of our home. Our meat is bought directly from the farmer. It is grass-fed and hormone free. A large portion of the fish we eat is locally caught. We preserve our own foods by drying, freezing and canning when in season to get us through the rest of the year. We very rarely eat fast food, about once a year. So, our diet is fairly clean. Again, this is how we have always been. It would likely be a big change for someone who relies heavily on the grocery store and processed foods though.

geebusuk

Since you seem to have very little understanding of the diet - let me explain.

I'm not sure which of my points you were responding too.

I'm remarkably balanced for someone often quite clumsy, even though you won't see me doing swiss-ball-curls!
I find this regardless of the type of food I eat .

I find it rare that reputable sources suggest you cut out specific food groups you have no problem with apart from as a way to encourage the masses to not eat too much without thinking about it.

If your body has enough micro nutrients, adding more doesn't make you healthy+1.

I used to love Dominoes. I still do, actually. But I haven't had one for at least a year, I reckon. I even considered getting one the other day after some decent exercise (ie over 1000 calories burnt), but couldn't be bothered.
Maybe because I DO often eat pizzas from supermarkets which fit to my macro goals (add meat, veg and low fat cheese often). Also similarly was going to get a Chinese take-away, but never got around to it, when previously it'd be at least once a month (not living in a house with others doing the same any more probably helps.)

Tomorrow I'm planning to have around 800g of carbs. Mmmmm, carbs!

I have got a McDonalds a couple of times recently - not a particular 'craving', just a cheap bite to eat that was convienent as I was passing. Could you explain what nutrients are missing from a McDonalds burger that would you get in the same weight of meat you eat?

tennisdude2004

So I've been reading up on Paleo.. it looks pretty interesting? Do any of you do Paleo? or Eat Clean.. Im having a little bit trouble finding the true definition of Eating Clean.. Correct me if I'm wrong.. does it mean no processed food... as in nothing coming from a box? or is it something else?

I'm hesitant to jump on the band wagon since i have a lot of stuff in my pantry but I'm really fascinated by it. Can anyone of you give me some insight or share your experience how you started or transitioned in to Paleo or Eating Clean

Thank you
Happy

Our friends' daughter and her family eat Paleo. Her kids are the same age as our grandkids. They eat Paleo while our grandkids eat like us, pretty much clean most of the time. Her kids are always sick! I honestly can't believe how often they are sick whereas our grandkids are seldom sick. As far as clean goes, we were eating that way before it became trendy and I hesitate to call it clean eating. We rely heavily on locally produced foods free of food additives and avoid artificial anything. We prefer home grown, organic and organic foods. We buy directly from food producers so very little of our food dollar is spent at a conventional grocery store. We do try to adhere to foods produced within a 100 mile radius of our home. Our meat is bought directly from the farmer. It is grass-fed and hormone free. A large portion of the fish we eat is locally caught. We preserve our own foods by drying, freezing and canning when in season to get us through the rest of the year. We very rarely eat fast food, about once a year. So, our diet is fairly clean. Again, this is how we have always been. It would likely be a big change for someone who relies heavily on the grocery store and processed foods though.

I eat Primal (a more relaxed form of paleo) and the diet you have just described as you are eating is exactly how anyone eating Primal would (ideally) eat organic produce (grass feed steak), limited junk food. Meat with plenty of veggies is kind of a staple meal (minus grains).

Is it possible there may be another cause for your friend grandkids getting sick - have you covered all of the bases in your investigation of their health or is your conclusion based on just the observation of their diet (which in the end may be quite similar to your own)?

tennisdude2004

Since you seem to have very little understanding of the diet - let me explain.

I'm not sure which of my points you were responding too.

I'm remarkably balanced for someone often quite clumsy, even though you won't see me doing swiss-ball-curls!
I find this regardless of the type of food I eat .

I find it rare that reputable sources suggest you cut out specific food groups you have no problem with apart from as a way to encourage the masses to not eat too much without thinking about it.

If your body has enough micro nutrients, adding more doesn't make you healthy+1.

I used to love Dominoes. I still do, actually. But I haven't had one for at least a year, I reckon. I even considered getting one the other day after some decent exercise (ie over 1000 calories burnt), but couldn't be bothered.
Maybe because I DO often eat pizzas from supermarkets which fit to my macro goals (add meat, veg and low fat cheese often). Also similarly was going to get a Chinese take-away, but never got around to it, when previously it'd be at least once a month (not living in a house with others doing the same any more probably helps.)

Tomorrow I'm planning to have around 800g of carbs. Mmmmm, carbs!

I have got a McDonalds a couple of times recently - not a particular 'craving', just a cheap bite to eat that was convienent as I was passing. Could you explain what nutrients are missing from a McDonalds burger that would you get in the same weight of meat you eat?

I think you should write a book about your diet and then we can all follow it exactly - because at the moment we keep making mistakes and eating the wrong sort of things.

We could call it the Gee Diet.

That way you wouldn't need to keep coming on the forums and telling people how wrong they are.

So if I've got this correct today I should eat 800g of carbs .... mmmmmmm carbs?

Please can you send me a list of what foods I need to include in those 800g.

Cheers, look forward to reading the book!

geebusuk

So if I've got this correct today I should eat 800g of carbs .... mmmmmmm carbs?

Please can you send me a list of what foods I need to include in those 800g.

The list involves all foods high in carbs; utilise to meet your other macros while you're at it.
Actually, may be best to avoid too many of the 'whole grains' and vegetables high in fibre, consider 'white alternatives'*.

And yes, if you are planning to do an ultra-marathon on the day after and weigh about the same as me, eating 800g of carbs is a pretty decent idea, I'd say!

*Having a lot of fibre the day before a long run may not be ideal for your guts!

And sadly, yes, I probably COULD document my weight loss and so on, claim that it's purely the food *I* like to eat that did it, get some decent marketing and sell loads of copies.

But when the reality is I haven't seen any decent evidence that food choices make a big difference (apart from intolerances/allergies/etc), I'd feel a bit bad getting people to cough up as it could be condensed to...
"Calorie deficit. Get enough protein and micronutrients. Do exercise if you want to be generally fit too."
So, there you go - my book, for you, for free!

Could you explain what nutrients are missing from a McDonalds burger that you would get in the same weight of meat you eat?

tennisdude2004

So if I've got this correct today I should eat 800g of carbs .... mmmmmmm carbs?

Please can you send me a list of what foods I need to include in those 800g.

The list involves all foods high in carbs; utilise to meet your other macros while you're at it.
Actually, may be best to avoid too many of the 'whole grains' and vegetables high in fibre, consider 'white alternatives'*.

And yes, if you are planning to do an ultra-marathon on the day after and weigh about the same as me, eating 800g of carbs is a pretty decent idea, I'd say!

*Having a lot of fibre the day before a long run may not be ideal for your guts!

And sadly, yes, I probably COULD document my weight loss and so on, claim that it's purely the food *I* like to eat that did it, get some decent marketing and sell loads of copies.

But when the reality is I haven't seen any decent evidence that food choices make a big difference (apart from intolerances/allergies/etc), I'd feel a bit bad getting people to cough up as it could be condensed to...
"Calorie deficit. Get enough protein and micronutrients. Do exercise if you want to be generally fit too."
So, there you go - my book, for you, for free!

Could you explain what nutrients are missing from a McDonalds burger that you would get in the same weight of meat you eat?

For the calories you consume I think there are plenty of MICRO nutrients missing - compared to more nutrient efficient alternatives.

But hey Guru Gee if you say I have to chug a McDondald's then that's what I'll do - If it fits my Macros - right!!!

psuLemon

So if I've got this correct today I should eat 800g of carbs .... mmmmmmm carbs?

Please can you send me a list of what foods I need to include in those 800g.

The list involves all foods high in carbs; utilise to meet your other macros while you're at it.
Actually, may be best to avoid too many of the 'whole grains' and vegetables high in fibre, consider 'white alternatives'*.

And yes, if you are planning to do an ultra-marathon on the day after and weigh about the same as me, eating 800g of carbs is a pretty decent idea, I'd say!

*Having a lot of fibre the day before a long run may not be ideal for your guts!

And sadly, yes, I probably COULD document my weight loss and so on, claim that it's purely the food *I* like to eat that did it, get some decent marketing and sell loads of copies.

But when the reality is I haven't seen any decent evidence that food choices make a big difference (apart from intolerances/allergies/etc), I'd feel a bit bad getting people to cough up as it could be condensed to...
"Calorie deficit. Get enough protein and micronutrients. Do exercise if you want to be generally fit too."
So, there you go - my book, for you, for free!

Could you explain what nutrients are missing from a McDonalds burger that you would get in the same weight of meat you eat?

For the calories you consume I think there are plenty of MICRO nutrients missing - compared to more nutrient efficient alternatives.

But hey Guru Gee if you say I have to chug a McDondald's then that's what I'll do - If it fits my Macros - right!!!

Do you assume there is no macro or micronutrient benefit from a mcdonalds egg mcmuffin sandwhich? Because it's just egg, cheese, canadian bacon and an english muffin.

Also, carb loading is very conducive towards his exercise needs.

neandermagnon

How about a moderate calorie deficit, with some attention paid to macro and micro nutrient content?

pfffff who needs that when you can put on a loin cloth, grab a spear, and go hunt down a wooly mammoth….?

just in the interests of scientific accuracy..... palaeolithic humans would not have bothered with the loin cloth. Modesty is a modern concept and any depiction of palaeolithic people in loincloths is purely so as not to offend the sensibilities of modern people, and is also totally unrealistic. Loincloths are utterly useless as clothes as they don't keep you warm. They're only for people who for whatever cultural reasons prefer to keep their genitals covered, which seems to be a modern phenomenon.

ndj1979

How about a moderate calorie deficit, with some attention paid to macro and micro nutrient content?

pfffff who needs that when you can put on a loin cloth, grab a spear, and go hunt down a wooly mammoth….?

just in the interests of scientific accuracy..... palaeolithic humans would not have bothered with the loin cloth. Modesty is a modern concept and any depiction of palaeolithic people in loincloths is purely so as not to offend the sensibilities of modern people, and is also totally unrealistic. Loincloths are utterly useless as clothes as they don't keep you warm. They're only for people who for whatever cultural reasons prefer to keep their genitals covered, which seems to be a modern phenomenon.

agreed…..I was just putting that in there for idiotic emphasis..:)