Everything in moderation
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All of that sounds lovely and I wish I were able to do it...
There are certain things I just cannot have in my house, ice cream being one of them. I bought frozen yogurt this week and the gallon was gone in 4 days.
Some people are seemingly unable to control themselves when it comes to certain "trigger foods". In theory everything in moderation sounds fabulous, but in practice it's not always best for everyone.
You wouldn't tell an alcoholic to enjoy a couple beers in moderation, would you? I'd hope not...
alcohol is an addictive drug which causes physiological changes in the body that leads to physiological dependence
food is something that's supposed to be in your body because that's how animals evolved
not the same
I don't know if I should even bother responding, because wow... but here goes nothing.
Food addiction -- Compulsive overeating, also sometimes called food addiction, is characterized by the compulsive eating of food. Professionals address this with either a behavior therapy model or a food-addiction model.
And I highly doubt our ancestors ate twinkies and potato chips to "evolve" as you put it. The high salt, high sugar foods of today are an overload to our systems and have been PROVEN to release pleasure neurotransmitters in our brain.
Did you miss the bit earlier in the thread where I said I used to have the same food addiction that you describe? I originally posted on this thread to describe my experiences and how I overcame them, with a view to hopefully helping others do the same thing.
and there are two types of addiction. psychological and physiological. pretty much anything can cause psychological addiction, and the answer isn't always total abstinence. physiological addiction actually changes how your body works, and going cold turkey from alcoholism can actually kill the person, as in the withrawal from alcohol can cause fits severe enough to kill the person. Is that remotely similar to someone who can't stop playing video games or can't stop using pornography or can't stop eating jaffa cakes? No.
also, I don't know why you took my post as "wow" because I didn't say anything unkind or anything untrue. I'm not going to start putting any psychological addiction in the same category as physiological addiction like alcohol or heroin, because they're not the same thing at all.
Also, when I was a kid I was addicted to a particular computer game. I have managed to overcome that psychological addiction without giving up computer games for the rest of my life, i can do computer/smartphone games in moderation these days. Even candy crush. Psychological addictions don't have to mean abstinence for the rest of your life, and the attempt at abstinence may even be counterproductive long term. Learning how to enjoy life's pleasures, especially food and sex, without harming yourself in the process (i.e. avoiding obesity, nutritional deficiency, STDs and unwanted pregnancy) is a really important life skill.
And as for evolution and the release of neurotransmitters in the brain in response to eating food, YES this happens with natural foods that our ancestors would have eaten, like fruit and honey. Because it's normal human physiology. And you get them in response to sex, playing sport and all kinds of other pleasurable activities. Why? Because Homo erectus didn't have enough frontal lobe to realise that having sex, hunting animals for sport and eating foods that have lots of calories are important things to do to stay alive and keep the species growing, so those who found those activities pleasurable because they released certain neurotransmitters into the brain survived better and left their genes in the population, and so their descendents, Homo sapiens, also find these activities pleasurable and have the same neurotransmitter responses in their brain. So to sum up, the reason why people like sweet tasting foods and find it hard to eat them in moderation is because the Homo erectus people who liked to eat ALL the honey and all the sweet tasting fruits when he or she could get them won at natural selection.0 -
I was waiting for someone to come back with this, you didn't disappoint me!
And do you think when eating at at deficit when you're more likely to be suspectible to binge eating is a good time to try and address the issues?For those saying "that's great, but that doesn't work for me because I can't control myself",
Might it not be better, say, when you've reached your goal weight and are eating more?
Please provide just one that proves it is an addictive drug to humans.Refined sugar is also an addictive drug, and numerous studies have proven this to be true.
And we're talking working the same way as an addictive drug, not the same way that people can get addicted to ANYTHING they enjoy.
Just because something hasn't been scientifically proven (yet!) to be true, it doesn't mean it isn't. In the case of sugar addiction, I default to common sense. Besides, as far as the definition of addiction goes, sugar fits in there quite nicely. Just think of kids coming down off a sugar high!
So for me, I'm not going to wait until it's been proven, I'm going to be smart, do my health and well being a favor, and keep it out of my life. There are too many natural whole food "candies" out there to enjoy anyway. :happy:0 -
This is such a great post and I'm surprised it's getting so much backlash..
Yes, we all have self- control issues and little addictions. But, life is too short to not enjoy things when the occasion arises. I'm never going to say that I can NEVER have a certain food.
On a really philosophical level, if everything were easy, what would be worth fighting for? My own road to being healthy is much more meaningful knowing that I got there by being in control of myself and my urges. As Albert Camus once wrote, "find happiness in moderation." It's so true.0 -
Love this!! :flowerforyou:0 -
I love these posts. You must eat EVERYTHING in moderation or you will necessarily fail... oh, you don't enjoy the temptation of having calorie-dense and unsatiating food in your house? Welp, you're going to fail, but moreover you're weak and gluttonous too! Not to mention, if you don't eat these foods on a regular basis, you will have no self control around them! I'm sure people mean well, but the ignorance in these posts is astounding, and to some extent I think these posts are just an excuse for IIFYM advocates to attack people who choose to cut weight without eating certain foods and tell them how wrong they.
Case in point, the folks in my office have an insatiable sweet tooth and our break room at times looks like a dessert buffet with all the things bring in to share. The suggestion that I can't control myself around donuts and other desserts in the break room simply because I don't eat donuts on a regular basis or buy them for my house is a complete fallacy; I carry on conversations with people eating donuts, cake, and a host of other desserts in the breakroom on a daily basis, without partaking of any myself. I'm not miserable or likely to binge, simply because I don't eat a lot of sweets; that may be you, but it's certainly not everyone, and attacking people for disagreeing with such a mindset is just silly. What you buy at the grocery store and stock your pantry with is completely separate from your willpower and your desire to eat certain foods.
That said, I have no problem with an "everything in moderation" approach; just stop pushing it on people and attacking them when they say they choose not to follow it when cutting weight.0 -
All of that sounds lovely and I wish I were able to do it...
There are certain things I just cannot have in my house, ice cream being one of them. I bought frozen yogurt this week and the gallon was gone in 4 days.
Some people are seemingly unable to control themselves when it comes to certain "trigger foods". In theory everything in moderation sounds fabulous, but in practice it's not always best for everyone.
You wouldn't tell an alcoholic to enjoy a couple beers in moderation, would you? I'd hope not...
alcohol is an addictive drug which causes physiological changes in the body that leads to physiological dependence
food is something that's supposed to be in your body because that's how animals evolved
not the same
I don't know if I should even bother responding, because wow... but here goes nothing.
Food addiction -- Compulsive overeating, also sometimes called food addiction, is characterized by the compulsive eating of food. Professionals address this with either a behavior therapy model or a food-addiction model.
And I highly doubt our ancestors ate twinkies and potato chips to "evolve" as you put it. The high salt, high sugar foods of today are an overload to our systems and have been PROVEN to release pleasure neurotransmitters in our brain.
Lots of things release pleasure neurotransmitters (endorphins) in our brain. Hugs do. Chili peppers do. Heavy lifting does.
However, I know that I've gone through many phases in my eating behavior and I'll probably go through many more. Like, NeanderMagon, I've found that eating enough + not having forbidden foods removed all the trigger foods that I have.
That being said, I'm way more likely to buy a single serving bag of Cool Ranch Doritos when I want some. No sense in having a huge bag around...I'm likely to eat it just to get rid of it, even when my craving is gone.
There are many strategies to achieve moderation.
There are also a lot of different strategies to achieve health goals. Stronglifts = good strategy for achieving strength. Calisthenics = good strategy for achieving strength. Paleo = can be a good strategy, depending on your needs and goals (weight loss, metabolism issues, food sensitivities).0 -
I'ma go ahead and disagree opie, quantity is itself a quality.Do the things that make you happy in moderation!
If you restrict too much, you'll surely fail and binge on what you think is causing the issue.
If you don't try new things, you'll never know what really works and what doesn't.
I like Doritos. I love Doritos. I think I'm fonder of Doritos than of most people. I'm not fond of Doritos in moderation. I'm not fond of weighing them. I especially hate eating 12 doritos and calling it a treat.
I've tried it, I can do it, got the postcard and the t-shirt. It performs anilingus on simians.
It provides you with a taste of deliciousness, then ends abruptly with no substance to its promise. I won't even dignify it by calling it a tease, it's a taunt and an insult to my masculinity. When I eat Doritos, I'll eat a bag (a big one) washed down by a few beers. I won't do so every day, but every now and again is fine.
I will no more eat Doritos in moderation and call it a treat than I will eat boiled cauliflower and call it steak. They're two sides of the same coin, if you ask me.
+1
Some foods just aren't worth having in 1 portion. Sometimes, I can eat a single Reese's cup and be fine. Some days, I'm going to eat both cups, or 3 if it's a king size packet.0 -
Just because something hasn't been scientifically proven (yet!) to be true, it doesn't mean it isn't. In the case of sugar addiction, I default to common sense. Besides, as far as the definition of addiction goes, sugar fits in there quite nicely. Just think of kids coming down off a sugar high!
So for me, I'm not going to wait until it's been proven, I'm going to be smart, do my health and well being a favor, and keep it out of my life. There are too many natural whole food "candies" out there to enjoy anyway. :happy:
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2747/does-giving-sweets-to-kids-produce-a-sugar-rush
There have been many studies done on kids reaction to sugar and it's just not a thing.0 -
I was waiting for someone to come back with this, you didn't disappoint me!
And do you think when eating at at deficit when you're more likely to be suspectible to binge eating is a good time to try and address the issues?For those saying "that's great, but that doesn't work for me because I can't control myself",
Might it not be better, say, when you've reached your goal weight and are eating more?
Please provide just one that proves it is an addictive drug to humans.Refined sugar is also an addictive drug, and numerous studies have proven this to be true.
And we're talking working the same way as an addictive drug, not the same way that people can get addicted to ANYTHING they enjoy.
Just because something hasn't been scientifically proven (yet!) to be true, it doesn't mean it isn't. In the case of sugar addiction, I default to common sense. Besides, as far as the definition of addiction goes, sugar fits in there quite nicely. Just think of kids coming down off a sugar high!
So for me, I'm not going to wait until it's been proven, I'm going to be smart, do my health and well being a favor, and keep it out of my life. There are too many natural whole food "candies" out there to enjoy anyway. :happy:
You're the one saying there are studies about the addictiveness of refined sugar, so could you provide a link to one? Not being snarky, just asking for a link.0 -
Unfortunately our bodies systems are under so much more pressure than our ancestors ones were. They were far more active than many of us, often had shorter lives by illness or accident, and ate very differently to ourselves.
Some of us find our systems rebel and come up with symptoms of distress, of something going wrong. The cleverest of us discover well educated thoughtful doctors who look at the whole person and give us the right advice. Others of us spend a life time in one weight battle after another. The more we try the more reactions we encounter within our bodies. Then some of us end up needing the help of immunologists and related specialists who will tell us we need to build this or that into our lives to help our bodies let us LIVE WELL.
Good for you all who are fortunate enough to have bodies which work as expected. Give space and consideration to those who need help to nurture their bodies so enabling them to experience good health.0 -
For those saying "that's great, but that doesn't work for me because I can't control myself", this is exactly the point that the OP is making. That maybe it's better and mentally healthier to actually address and solve your self-control issues rather than just throw your hands in the air and say "well, I have no self control so I can't have X food in my house".
There are going to be situations where you don't have control over which foods are available to you... cookies brought into your office by a co-worker, a cake given to you by a friend, etc. Isn't it better to actively work towards being able to control yourself around such foods so that you can continue to enjoy them, rather than just resign yourself to never eating them again?
Personally I believe that a lack of self-control is a flaw that one can overcome, and when I have flaws that I can fix, I aim to fix them rather than just accept them. Now some flaws can't be fixed, but I don't think that lack of self-control is one of them.
I wouldn't characterize it as a self-control issue. After all, not having the food in the house is a way of exerting self-control.
It's more of the obsession/binging/self-degradation cycle that's the problem.0 -
Yeah, I don't agree. I'm not going to stock Reese's peanut butter cups. I can't eat them in moderation. I disagree with you. I have a few things I love that I spin completely out of control when they touch my lips. Certain kinds of ice cream, Reese's, and chocolate covered almonds. I just can't eat in moderation. I just freak out and eat 5,000 calories of them once I start. So, I disagree with you completely 1,000%. In fact, I've never disagreed with anyone more in any post here ever. I am 10,000% off-board with your supposition. It's just wrong. I have trigger foods that I avoid as much as I can because they begin a downward spiral into massive binge eating.
Errrr, you could, if you only just told yourself you could and werent gluttonous. They arent addictive...
AAHHH, proving my point. This is bullying, plain and simple.
Random accusation. I am being blunt, not bullying.0 -
I've tried it, I can do it, got the postcard and the t-shirt. It performs anilingus on simians.
How do I meet this "moderation" you speak of?
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^^^ see spam above ^^^^
speaking of *kitten*...0 -
I love these posts. You must eat EVERYTHING in moderation or you will necessarily fail... oh, you don't enjoy the temptation of having calorie-dense and unsatiating food in your house? Welp, you're going to fail, but moreover you're weak and gluttonous too! Not to mention, if you don't eat these foods on a regular basis, you will have no self control around them! I'm sure people mean well, but the ignorance in these posts is astounding, and to some extent I think these posts are just an excuse for IIFYM advocates to attack people who choose to cut weight without eating certain foods and tell them how wrong they.
Case in point, the folks in my office have an insatiable sweet tooth and our break room at times looks like a dessert buffet with all the things bring in to share. The suggestion that I can't control myself around donuts and other desserts in the break room simply because I don't eat donuts on a regular basis or buy them for my house is a complete fallacy; I carry on conversations with people eating donuts, cake, and a host of other desserts in the breakroom on a daily basis, without partaking of any myself. I'm not miserable or likely to binge, simply because I don't eat a lot of sweets; that may be you, but it's certainly not everyone, and attacking people for disagreeing with such a mindset is just silly. What you buy at the grocery store and stock your pantry with is completely separate from your willpower and your desire to eat certain foods.
That said, I have no problem with an "everything in moderation" approach; just stop pushing it on people and attacking them when they say they choose not to follow it when cutting weight.
if someone can take or leave something but chooses to leave it, then the OP isn't aimed at them
it's aimed at people who tend to binge on certain foods, then respond to that by total abstinence
no-one's shoving anything down anyone's throat, this is an internet forum you can choose which threads to read and not read. but I have been on both sides of the fence in this, i.e. someone who in the past couldn't leave certain foods alone, had to eat the whole pack, overate ridiculously on certain foods..... and I've also learned how not to do that. And having been on both sides of this fence, I like being able to eat what i want in sensible portion sizes without going OTT side of the fence a lot better. My first post on this thread I explained how I did that. and it wasn't abstinence. I post all of this with the intention of possibly helping someone else break out of a cycle of overeating and feeling guilty in response to certain foods, and total abstinence from those foods, and be able to learn how to enjoy those foods without overindulgence or guilt and still hit their calorie targets... I think it would be mean not to share that experience, don't you think?0 -
I gave up cola 4 years ago. Since then I haven't had a drop and I never plan to. I gave it up previously 7 years ago. Then I read that having it in moderation was fine. I drank one. Then I could help thinking about it, the taste, the way it made me feel more awake, I had to have another! Soon it was a daily habit and I wanted even more. So I gave it up again. I don't crave it now. I can easily say no if offered one. I really do prefer water. But I know me. If I started drinking it "in moderation" again, I will start to crave it again. That's just me, but I'm sure I'm not the only one. Why don't you do what you want to do. Stop preaching to others what they should do and especially don't say that if they don't do what you do then there is something really wrong with them.0
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SMH
Now another person new to the forums is going to run to the market and stock up on cookies, icecream, soda and chips, all because they were told they could and SHOULD eat them in moderation.
2 months from now they are going to be just as frustrated as they were the day they started MFP.
Some people have to learn new behaviors and get their weight and body fat down to a point that they understand what will happen to them if they binge and know it is not worth it.
Until that day comes, they need to cut the foods out of their life they are incapable of moderating.
To shame people that can not moderate food is bullying them.......period.........some of us have things we are incapable of moderating, and we have to abstain from them. I have not died yet from not having a drink of alcohol in 6 years or a bag of Costco cashew pumpkin clusters.....cant moderate them....and I am not ashamed of that fact.
Bullying and shaming......a two for one sale on buzz words! Disagreeing with someone does not constitute bullying or even shaming.
Anyway, there are two conclusions to draw from this exchange:
1. Many people (such as myself) lose weight by eating what they want, just LESS of certain things (bad stuff). Logging works.
2. People who are incapable of moderating food should avoid temptation.....I get this part, play to your strengths and not your weaknesses.
What is the problem? One size does not fit all.0 -
interesting :flowerforyou:0
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