Everything in moderation
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All of that sounds lovely and I wish I were able to do it...
There are certain things I just cannot have in my house, ice cream being one of them. I bought frozen yogurt this week and the gallon was gone in 4 days.
Some people are seemingly unable to control themselves when it comes to certain "trigger foods". In theory everything in moderation sounds fabulous, but in practice it's not always best for everyone.
You wouldn't tell an alcoholic to enjoy a couple beers in moderation, would you? I'd hope not...
alcohol is an addictive drug which causes physiological changes in the body that leads to physiological dependence
food is something that's supposed to be in your body because that's how animals evolved
not the same
I don't know if I should even bother responding, because wow... but here goes nothing.
Food addiction -- Compulsive overeating, also sometimes called food addiction, is characterized by the compulsive eating of food. Professionals address this with either a behavior therapy model or a food-addiction model.
And I highly doubt our ancestors ate twinkies and potato chips to "evolve" as you put it. The high salt, high sugar foods of today are an overload to our systems and have been PROVEN to release pleasure neurotransmitters in our brain.
Did you miss the bit earlier in the thread where I said I used to have the same food addiction that you describe? I originally posted on this thread to describe my experiences and how I overcame them, with a view to hopefully helping others do the same thing.
and there are two types of addiction. psychological and physiological. pretty much anything can cause psychological addiction, and the answer isn't always total abstinence. physiological addiction actually changes how your body works, and going cold turkey from alcoholism can actually kill the person, as in the withrawal from alcohol can cause fits severe enough to kill the person. Is that remotely similar to someone who can't stop playing video games or can't stop using pornography or can't stop eating jaffa cakes? No.
also, I don't know why you took my post as "wow" because I didn't say anything unkind or anything untrue. I'm not going to start putting any psychological addiction in the same category as physiological addiction like alcohol or heroin, because they're not the same thing at all.
Also, when I was a kid I was addicted to a particular computer game. I have managed to overcome that psychological addiction without giving up computer games for the rest of my life, i can do computer/smartphone games in moderation these days. Even candy crush. Psychological addictions don't have to mean abstinence for the rest of your life, and the attempt at abstinence may even be counterproductive long term. Learning how to enjoy life's pleasures, especially food and sex, without harming yourself in the process (i.e. avoiding obesity, nutritional deficiency, STDs and unwanted pregnancy) is a really important life skill.
And as for evolution and the release of neurotransmitters in the brain in response to eating food, YES this happens with natural foods that our ancestors would have eaten, like fruit and honey. Because it's normal human physiology. And you get them in response to sex, playing sport and all kinds of other pleasurable activities. Why? Because Homo erectus didn't have enough frontal lobe to realise that having sex, hunting animals for sport and eating foods that have lots of calories are important things to do to stay alive and keep the species growing, so those who found those activities pleasurable because they released certain neurotransmitters into the brain survived better and left their genes in the population, and so their descendents, Homo sapiens, also find these activities pleasurable and have the same neurotransmitter responses in their brain. So to sum up, the reason why people like sweet tasting foods and find it hard to eat them in moderation is because the Homo erectus people who liked to eat ALL the honey and all the sweet tasting fruits when he or she could get them won at natural selection.
quoting for emphasis.
I think the point that is being missed in this highlighted statement is the assumption that everyone thinks and reacts to mental stimuli (if that is the correct term) the same.
What maybe addictive for one person may not be for another. Hence why most of the population can function normally whilst including alcohol into the lives and others cannot.
Seems a bit strange that we cannot accept that food can be addictive!0 -
Yes, that may be the case for YOU, op.
But for many people, we have self control issues.
That means if I buy a small bit of cheese, I'll eat it and it'll all be good.
If I buy a much better value large bit of cheese, I'll eat the whole 2000 calories. Not so good as that much fat doesn't really fit in my goals.
I'm the same with cheese and good bread. If it's there, I will keep going back to it. I'll have some if the rest of my family are, so that it's gone and not hanging around the house. I don't view it as 'evil' or anything, I just really, really like it. Although I have quite a high calorie limit, I don't have enough for a whole camembert on a regular basis.
I know I have turned a corner with some things, because I can keep ice cream in the freezer for ages and there's always crisps and biscuits in for my son. I can go days without eating any of them.
But cheese...nope. It depresses me to weigh a portion of stilton.0 -
I thought I locked him in my pantry, how did he get out??...... OR are there more than one??
The bacon cake let him out. Sneaky, sneaky bacon cake!!!0 -
I think that for some people (maybe not all, so no point in getting all butthurt), they won't allow themselves any "treats" because they are punishing themselves for "being bad" (allowing themselves to gain weight).
When they're able to forgive themselves, they can eat the "forbidden" stuff in moderation.
Just something to ponder.
I agree with this. It does sometimes seem to be the case - especially with some of the cleanses/detoxes/fasts that go on.0 -
There are just some foods that are terrible trigger foods. Bread happens to be one of them for me. On top of that, I have gallstones anyway, so I had to eliminate it from my diet altogether. I also have to severely limit dairy and greasy foods to avoid gallbladder pain.
There are some people though (me being one of them) who get seriously addicted to food to the point where "moderation" doesn't actually work. There is a reason why so many people suffer from obesity. That crap is addicting! Junk food manufacturers KNOW that. That's how they keep you coming back for more. There's a reason why CocaCola considers people who drink more than 3 cans a day "users".
it's a lot more complicated than "oh, I'll just eat in moderation" because several people eat beyond full just like an alcoholic will drink far beyond 'buzzed'. There's a reason I lost almost 100 pounds and gained a significant amount back. There is no such thing as moderation for me.0 -
I'm really good at controlling my junk food intake and alcoholic beverage intake --> If it's not in the house, I don't eat it!0
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shoot, gotta get to work ..... will have to catch up later :drinker:0
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I was waiting for someone to come back with this, you didn't disappoint me!
And do you think when eating at at deficit when you're more likely to be suspectible to binge eating is a good time to try and address the issues?For those saying "that's great, but that doesn't work for me because I can't control myself",
Might it not be better, say, when you've reached your goal weight and are eating more?
Please provide just one that proves it is an addictive drug to humans.Refined sugar is also an addictive drug, and numerous studies have proven this to be true.
And we're talking working the same way as an addictive drug, not the same way that people can get addicted to ANYTHING they enjoy.
Just because something hasn't been scientifically proven (yet!) to be true, it doesn't mean it isn't. In the case of sugar addiction, I default to common sense. Besides, as far as the definition of addiction goes, sugar fits in there quite nicely. Just think of kids coming down off a sugar high!
So for me, I'm not going to wait until it's been proven, I'm going to be smart, do my health and well being a favor, and keep it out of my life. There are too many natural whole food "candies" out there to enjoy anyway. :happy:
You're the one saying there are studies about the addictiveness of refined sugar, so could you provide a link to one? Not being snarky, just asking for a link.
On my phone so can't post links but just google 'rats sugar cocaine' and you will find studies.
Sugar is more addictive in rats than cocaine. Yes we're not rats but considering how much of our medical science comes from these kinds of tests this is probably worth something.
Might revisit this with some links when have access to a computer.0 -
All of that sounds lovely and I wish I were able to do it...
There are certain things I just cannot have in my house, ice cream being one of them. I bought frozen yogurt this week and the gallon was gone in 4 days.
Some people are seemingly unable to control themselves when it comes to certain "trigger foods". In theory everything in moderation sounds fabulous, but in practice it's not always best for everyone.
You wouldn't tell an alcoholic to enjoy a couple beers in moderation, would you? I'd hope not...
Rubbish. Alcohol is a drug, an addictive substance, food is not.
Anyone can eat in moderation if you physically serve yourself reasonable portions of food.
Comments like this really irritate me. People with an alcohol addiction, or a drug addiction, receive sympathy and help. People that have an eating disorder such an anorexia or bulimia, receive sympathy and help. Turn that eating disorder round though, and make it someone that has a binge eating disorder, and suddenly that person doesn't deserve sympathy and help. In too many cases, they are just labelled as greedy or lacking self-control.
As someone that suffers from binge eating, I can't have certain foods in the house. Sometimes the whole 'eat it in moderation' thing works, but sometimes it doesn't. And if I do have a bit of an emotional munch, having the stuff readily available in the house is not good. Having to physically drive to the supermarket to buy things for my binge gives me a chance to put that in perspective.
To the OP; demonizing food on this forum is a problem, but so is the 'this is what works for me and so you should all do it' approach that so many here seem to have. You included.
If food weren't an issue, groups like Overeater's Anonymous wouldn't exist. Binge Eating Disorder is an actual eating disorder and it's in the DSM and probably the ICD. It's a real issue and I understand why you are offended.
I've had eating disorders from anorexia, to bulimia to overeating. I know what you're talking about and I can see that the ignorance on the topic can be infuriating.
However, some people just aren't educated on the matter, and that isn't their fault. Some people don't believe any mental illness exists; those people are also infuriating, but there is no arguing with them.
I can't keep problem foods around either. If I become depressed, the only thing that makes me happy is food and no, I DON'T have control over it. I also have recurring episodes of depression so it's an issue.
So I understand "no moderation" on certain foods. I do that as well! I don't know if I'll ever eat french fries again. If that's what it takes to keep me at a healthy weight, that's what I'll do!
I'm glad it works for some people! That's fantastic. But there literally are people that CAN NOT do this without going overboard. If they could, they wouldn't have a diagnosable mental illness.
/rant.
BED is not as common as people think it is today. There may be other diagnosis that capture other issues (food and non-food related), but overeating (not diagnosable) is far more common than true BED.0 -
ut what you're arguing for is moderation, and what the OP is advising people to do. No-one is saying that you MUST buy any particular food or eat it constantly (or if they are then I missed that post and they're in the minority). The argument is against what i bolded in your post above, i.e. total abstinence for a strongly desired food (which is punctuated by unplanned binge eating), which you said you don't agree with either. What you describe that you're doing IS moderation.
The point is that if someone is really hankering after a particular food, it's better to eat that food and find a way to make it fit in with their eating plan, rather than torturing themselves with abstenence, calling it "crack food" and themselves an addict and then binge eating on it the first time they're in a situation where they can't totally ban it from their environment. My personal experience with foods that I simply could not leave alone, was that to stop thinking of them as forbidden foods and allow myself to eat them when i want took away 95% of the desire to eat them, which is why there's currently half a chocolate bar in my fridge because I only wanted to eat half of it earlier as I'm on a cut, the other half I'll eat tomorrow or maybe this evening if I have spare calories for it AND really fancy eating it as opposed to anything else. In the past, I would have just compulsively eaten the whole chocolate bar because I saw it as forbidden food that was bad and I had to eat it when I got the chance... and trying to abstain from these foods just made the problem worse, not better.
Except when someone said they don't buy Reese's cups for their pantry because if they do they tend to overeat Reese's cups, they were told by the OP that they have an eating disorder (or disordered eating... difference?). I'm not even a huge fan of Reese's cups but if you put a giant bag of them in the cupboard, I'm likely to snack on several every week (assuming I'm not heavily limiting my carb intake) and it would make it quite a bit easier for me to slip up on any given day. I see no harm in people making a conscious choice to avoid certain foods when it comes to what they keep in their pantry; for that matter, we all do this on a weekly basis, because I don't know anyone's house that has every type of food stocked up.
Now, I'll be the first to admit that I don't "get it" when it comes to bingeing, obsessing over certain foods and the like. I'm pretty good at eating the same over and over again, day in and day out (a perk when it comes to logging!) and I don't know that I've ever obsessed over specific foods. And at the end of the day, I suspect we largely agree on the subject. And perhaps had the OP responded by telling that person their decision not to purchase Reese's cups is fine provided they don't feel deprived/miserable without Reese's cups in the pantry, rather than telling them they have an eating disorder as diagnosed by a random guy on the Internet, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. :laugh:
I think you're right that without that comment we wouldn't be having this conversation.... maybe he knew something about that person from previous threads (as often happens here), or he misread something, or he sees eating disorders when they don't exist for some reason. In any case the overall message is what dame piglet said earlier in this thread (in about 15 words what took me several paragraphs.... lol I type too much lol)0 -
If you know someone who says "I can't eat XYZ food because I cannot control myself when I eat it." They need to add this food to their week.
Why?
Because if you believe the 1 food you love so much is making you fat because you binge eat it, that's because you're trying to completely eliminate it. Eat the ****ing food and enjoy it in moderation! Fit it into your macros! The psychological anguish you have thinking about this food you love is far far worse than simply having a serving of it every few nights. Especially on lifting days.
This type of mentality should be used in just about everything you do!
Except of course the love you have for your family and friends! ;D
Seriously though.
All over this forum I see people demonizing food and activities.
Sugar causes diabetes so I cannot have any sugar at all.
Saturated fat causes heart disease so I cannot have saturated fat at all.
When I go bowling, I drink beer. I cannot bowl ever again.
Paleo is the only way to live.
Ketogenic diets are the only diets that work.
Strong Lifts 5x5 is the only way to lift weights.
Calisthenics rule and if you want to be lean, only do calisthenics.
All of that is total Bull****!
Do the things that make you happy in moderation!
If you restrict too much, you'll surely fail and binge on what you think is causing the issue.
If you don't try new things, you'll never know what really works and what doesn't.
Relax and live!
OMG totally. I love your post. Thank you. I mean Jeez, it's not like cake is herion and you have to eat it or you go through serious withdrawal. AND DON'T ANYBODY say it is because I will punch you! Food is NOT like narcotics.0 -
Helloitsdan, I can't agree. I think there are things you can buy to eat that have no business in your home, much less in your body. They might be "tasty", but they don't contribute anything positive to the body at all. Examples - gummy candies (most candy), Twinkie-type snacks. There's no reason other than taste to put these things into the body, ever. (and yes - I enjoy a tasty, empty-calorie treat as much as anybody, but I'm not buying them anymore)
So if I've just finished lifting weights and I slug my protein, what harm would a Twinkie have?
Physiologically what happens to the Twinkie?
Please explain.
Or instead see me as my former fat self and I've just finished lifting weights and I eat a Twinkie, what happens physiologically when I metabolize the Twinkie?
Most peoe are missing the point. Its not about the food.0 -
I think that for some people (maybe not all, so no point in getting all butthurt), they won't allow themselves any "treats" because they are punishing themselves for "being bad" (allowing themselves to gain weight).
When they're able to forgive themselves, they can eat the "forbidden" stuff in moderation.
Just something to ponder.
^^^^ bumping because Dame Piglet said what I've been trying to say all along just much more succinctly
when I abandoned the "forbidden foods"/mustn't eat this mentality, I suddenly could eat a whole bunch of foods in moderation that I compusively overate on previously.0 -
All of that sounds lovely and I wish I were able to do it...
There are certain things I just cannot have in my house, ice cream being one of them. I bought frozen yogurt this week and the gallon was gone in 4 days.
Some people are seemingly unable to control themselves when it comes to certain "trigger foods". In theory everything in moderation sounds fabulous, but in practice it's not always best for everyone.
You wouldn't tell an alcoholic to enjoy a couple beers in moderation, would you? I'd hope not...
alcohol is an addictive drug which causes physiological changes in the body that leads to physiological dependence
food is something that's supposed to be in your body because that's how animals evolved
not the same
WORD!!! DO NOT use alcohol or drugs as a comparision. I HATE when people do that.
And by the way I notice the words "I can't" being used. Replace it with "I won't" because we CAN stop if we want to. I don't care how many feathers I ruffle. It's frugging true and we all know it.0 -
All of that sounds lovely and I wish I were able to do it...
There are certain things I just cannot have in my house, ice cream being one of them. I bought frozen yogurt this week and the gallon was gone in 4 days.
Some people are seemingly unable to control themselves when it comes to certain "trigger foods". In theory everything in moderation sounds fabulous, but in practice it's not always best for everyone.
You wouldn't tell an alcoholic to enjoy a couple beers in moderation, would you? I'd hope not...
alcohol is an addictive drug which causes physiological changes in the body that leads to physiological dependence
food is something that's supposed to be in your body because that's how animals evolved
not the same
WORD!!! DO NOT use alcohol or drugs as a comparision. I HATE when people do that.
And by the way I notice the words "I can't" being used. Replace it with "I won't" because we CAN stop if we want to. I don't care how many feathers I ruffle. It's frugging true and we all know it.
then how do you explain this?
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Helloitsdan, I can't agree. I think there are things you can buy to eat that have no business in your home, much less in your body. They might be "tasty", but they don't contribute anything positive to the body at all. Examples - gummy candies (most candy), Twinkie-type snacks. There's no reason other than taste to put these things into the body, ever. (and yes - I enjoy a tasty, empty-calorie treat as much as anybody, but I'm not buying them anymore)
So if I've just finished lifting weights and I slug my protein, what harm would a Twinkie have?
Physiologically what happens to the Twinkie?
Please explain.
Or instead see me as my former fat self and I've just finished lifting weights and I eat a Twinkie, what happens physiologically when I metabolize the Twinkie?
Most peoe are missing the point. Its not about the food.
Seriously, it's not about the food. Because, on another note, guess what folks, drug addiction is not about the drug. Those of you IN THE KNOW, know this is true. It's about the feelings we are trying to bury with the food and drugs.0 -
I have to totally agree with tennisdude2004's post:
"What may be addictive to one person may not be to another. Hence why most of the population can function normally whilst including alcohol into their lives and others cannot.
Seems a bit strange that we cannot accept that food can be addictive."
There is lots of research on food addiction from reputable sources on the internet that addresses just this issue. Some people are able to keep a pint of vodka, for example, in their liquor cabinet and are able to have a drink or two periodically and not consume the entire bottle in one sitting just as some people are able to have a bag of Reese's peanut butter cups in their pantry and only consume one and not feel compelled to eat the entire bag in one sitting. Personally (and this is just my opinion), both of these things equate to an addiction.0 -
This is exactly what I've been doing for the last week. Ice cream is one of my weaknesses. I never stopped eating it, but I haven't bought a tub for months because I didn't want to keep it in my freezer. I just went out and get a single serving at my favourite ice-cream parlour once in a while. Last week I bought a 500g tub as a moderation exercise. It worked! It lasted a whole week. :laugh: I ate a portion every day, which is kind of a huge accomplishment for me. Next step: cookies! Now, that will be hard. :laugh:If you know someone who says "I can't eat XYZ food because I cannot control myself when I eat it." They need to add this food to their week.0 -
If you know someone who says "I can't eat XYZ food because I cannot control myself when I eat it." They need to add this food to their week.
Why?
Because if you believe the 1 food you love so much is making you fat because you binge eat it, that's because you're trying to completely eliminate it. Eat the ****ing food and enjoy it in moderation! Fit it into your macros! The psychological anguish you have thinking about this food you love is far far worse than simply having a serving of it every few nights. Especially on lifting days.
This type of mentality should be used in just about everything you do!
Except of course the love you have for your family and friends! ;D
Seriously though.
All over this forum I see people demonizing food and activities.
Sugar causes diabetes so I cannot have any sugar at all.
Saturated fat causes heart disease so I cannot have saturated fat at all.
When I go bowling, I drink beer. I cannot bowl ever again.
Paleo is the only way to live.
Ketogenic diets are the only diets that work.
Strong Lifts 5x5 is the only way to lift weights.
Calisthenics rule and if you want to be lean, only do calisthenics.
the ONLY answer is eat what you want but in moderation
All of that is total Bull****!
Do the things that make you happy in moderation!
If you restrict too much, you'll surely fail and binge on what you think is causing the issue.
If you don't try new things, you'll never know what really works and what doesn't.
Relax and live!
OMG totally. I love your post. Thank you. I mean Jeez, it's not like cake is herion and you have to eat it or you go through serious withdrawal. AND DON'T ANYBODY say it is because I will punch you! Food is NOT like narcotics.
I think they missed one out.
The problem with the OP's thread is the assumption that just because someone chooses (as an adult) to cut a certain food out of their diet, they are depriving themselves!! and making their life miserable! says who?
My personal experience of cutting out food I thought I enjoyed (but wasn't the best choice for me personal) was when I changed my eating style I actually preferred my new diet and no longer craved the higher - less nutritional food.
I think the solution would be for everyone to stop judging situations by their own personal views and have broader mind sets.
Just because something does not work for me I do not naturally assume that it will not work for everyone else and vice versa.
Are certain foods an addiction to me - No. Are certain foods an addiction to others - very likely.
Not everyone has the mind set to eat a calorie restricted diet (of everything in moderation) and to assume they can is a bit naïve.0 -
OK moderation does not mean keeping the food in your house people. I can't have Vienna fingers in my house as I will just eat the entire thing. However, if I want and I see a single serving package, I can have that. It won't make me pig out because one day I had these cookies.
Everything in moderation means, its OK to have desert once in a while.
Sugar in your coffee will not kill you!
Having a chocolate pudding for desert will not derail a diet.
One chocolate bar will not make you fat.
Weight watchers has been successful for 40 years or so with this simple approach. They are the long lasting diet plan out there. Nutrisystem and Jenny Craig give you the food, but the same concept applies, they have puddings and deserts and pizza. You don't need to demonize food, but you do need to balance what you eat. Balance in diet and life is how you get healthy.
FYI, most of the diets that people swear by are fad diets. At one point Atkins was all the rage, don't hear too much about that anymore. My mom did a very very low fat diet and started losing her hair. Grapefruit diet was the best ever 20 years ago, where did that go? Extreme diets are fads. I am not saying that eating Raw is not healthy, choosing a to be a vegetarian or vegan is healthy, making a choice to eliminate processed foods is healthy too.0 -
I totally diagree with everyone.0
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Sure, here are a few:I was waiting for someone to come back with this, you didn't disappoint me!
Just because something hasn't been scientifically proven (yet!) to be true, it doesn't mean it isn't. In the case of sugar addiction, I default to common sense. Besides, as far as the definition of addiction goes, sugar fits in there quite nicely. Just think of kids coming down off a sugar high!
So for me, I'm not going to wait until it's been proven, I'm going to be smart, do my health and well being a favor, and keep it out of my life. There are too many natural whole food "candies" out there to enjoy anyway. :happy:
You're the one saying there are studies about the addictiveness of refined sugar, so could you provide a link to one? Not being snarky, just asking for a link.
Sugar can be addictive, Princeton scientist says:
http://www.princeton.edu/main/news/archive/S22/88/56G31/index.xml?section=topstories
Student-faculty research suggests Oreos can be compared to drugs of abuse in lab rats:
http://www.conncoll.edu/news/news-archive/2013/student-faculty-research-suggests-oreos-can-be-compared-to-drugs-of-abuse-in-lab-rats.htm#.Uz1q8fldWSo
Sugar Highs and Lows: The New Science of Sugar Addiction (this is actually a half-hour lecture):
http://uctv.ucsd.edu/search-details.aspx?showID=21692
Well, if I had to choose between sugar and using coke I would say that it's A WHOLE LOT EASIER to stop eating sugar. So there.0 -
I agree. For those who said "oh I disagree 1000% because no matter what I can't have this around or I will immediately downward spiral into binging in getting fat again"... obviously... you're not ready. At some point in your life, there's gonna be a reese's cup... or a bag of chips... or an opportunity to drink beer. You have to change your MIND to allow yourself to have 1 reese cup... or 1 portion of ice cream... and that's all. It takes time... sure... but there is nothing stopping you from buying that bag of chips... so if you say "I give it up forever" you are SOOO lying to yourself... because on a bad day... you're going to go buy that bag of chips... and eat the whole thing.... and feel bad. Whereas, if you had allowed yourself to have a few chips here and there... that wouldn't be a trigger anymore because it wouldn't be "forbidden". See how that works?0
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People tend to get pissed off when they hear they've been depriving themselves for nothing. To them, weight-loss takes a miracle and requires OBSCENE willpower! No one can be thin and not ever go to some extreme (diet, exercise or otherwise).
Brilliant and well put. Kudos, Red!0 -
All of that sounds lovely and I wish I were able to do it...
There are certain things I just cannot have in my house, ice cream being one of them. I bought frozen yogurt this week and the gallon was gone in 4 days.
Some people are seemingly unable to control themselves when it comes to certain "trigger foods". In theory everything in moderation sounds fabulous, but in practice it's not always best for everyone.
You wouldn't tell an alcoholic to enjoy a couple beers in moderation, would you? I'd hope not...
Rubbish. Alcohol is a drug, an addictive substance, food is not.
Anyone can eat in moderation if you physically serve yourself reasonable portions of food.
Comments like this really irritate me. People with an alcohol addiction, or a drug addiction, receive sympathy and help. People that have an eating disorder such an anorexia or bulimia, receive sympathy and help. Turn that eating disorder round though, and make it someone that has a binge eating disorder, and suddenly that person doesn't deserve sympathy and help. In too many cases, they are just labelled as greedy or lacking self-control.
As someone that suffers from binge eating, I can't have certain foods in the house. Sometimes the whole 'eat it in moderation' thing works, but sometimes it doesn't. And if I do have a bit of an emotional munch, having the stuff readily available in the house is not good. Having to physically drive to the supermarket to buy things for my binge gives me a chance to put that in perspective.
To the OP; demonizing food on this forum is a problem, but so is the 'this is what works for me and so you should all do it' approach that so many here seem to have. You included.
If food weren't an issue, groups like Overeater's Anonymous wouldn't exist. Binge Eating Disorder is an actual eating disorder and it's in the DSM and probably the ICD. It's a real issue and I understand why you are offended.
I've had eating disorders from anorexia, to bulimia to overeating. I know what you're talking about and I can see that the ignorance on the topic can be infuriating.
However, some people just aren't educated on the matter, and that isn't their fault. Some people don't believe any mental illness exists; those people are also infuriating, but there is no arguing with them.
I can't keep problem foods around either. If I become depressed, the only thing that makes me happy is food and no, I DON'T have control over it. I also have recurring episodes of depression so it's an issue.
So I understand "no moderation" on certain foods. I do that as well! I don't know if I'll ever eat french fries again. If that's what it takes to keep me at a healthy weight, that's what I'll do!
I'm glad it works for some people! That's fantastic. But there literally are people that CAN NOT do this without going overboard. If they could, they wouldn't have a diagnosable mental illness.
/rant.
No one, in this entire thread, has denied that eating disorders exist. There was a mild dust-up regarding 'disordered eating' vs an 'eating disorder'. No need to blow it out of proportion or get personally offended by it.0 -
Woo hoo!!!!! YEAH!!!!!0 -
I want to cut things out of my diet and add different things to my diet. A lot of people do this and sustain it. Being told that this method leads to certain failure is just ridiculous.
I'm not going to sit around telling all the people who eat whatever they want in moderation to stop or they're going to fail for sure. What they do is their business and that is what works for them. It wouldn't for me and it never has, as many times as I've tried. And that is okay. And it's good if it works for you. Whatever works to get the weight off, keep it off and be happy. It's not unhealthy to switch to lower calorie stuff and fruits and veggies. Especially if we're comfortable and like the change.
I feel like some people are literally trying to rub it in the faces of the people that DO cut out certain foods or laugh at people who do this. What's that about? I'm happy with your diet if you're happy with it! Be happy for the other people doing this and being healthy and having success. Don't tell them they are doomed. That's not kind and in no way is it a fact.
I shouldn't knock certain foods and I don't. I don't get why knocking an entire food plan is okay. It's actually exactly the same but in reverse.0 -
All of that sounds lovely and I wish I were able to do it...
There are certain things I just cannot have in my house, ice cream being one of them. I bought frozen yogurt this week and the gallon was gone in 4 days.
Some people are seemingly unable to control themselves when it comes to certain "trigger foods". In theory everything in moderation sounds fabulous, but in practice it's not always best for everyone.
You wouldn't tell an alcoholic to enjoy a couple beers in moderation, would you? I'd hope not...
alcohol is an addictive drug which causes physiological changes in the body that leads to physiological dependence
food is something that's supposed to be in your body because that's how animals evolved
not the same
I don't know if I should even bother responding, because wow... but here goes nothing.
Food addiction -- Compulsive overeating, also sometimes called food addiction, is characterized by the compulsive eating of food. Professionals address this with either a behavior therapy model or a food-addiction model.
And I highly doubt our ancestors ate twinkies and potato chips to "evolve" as you put it. The high salt, high sugar foods of today are an overload to our systems and have been PROVEN to release pleasure neurotransmitters in our brain.
Did you miss the bit earlier in the thread where I said I used to have the same food addiction that you describe? I originally posted on this thread to describe my experiences and how I overcame them, with a view to hopefully helping others do the same thing.
and there are two types of addiction. psychological and physiological. pretty much anything can cause psychological addiction, and the answer isn't always total abstinence. physiological addiction actually changes how your body works, and going cold turkey from alcoholism can actually kill the person, as in the withrawal from alcohol can cause fits severe enough to kill the person. Is that remotely similar to someone who can't stop playing video games or can't stop using pornography or can't stop eating jaffa cakes? No.
also, I don't know why you took my post as "wow" because I didn't say anything unkind or anything untrue. I'm not going to start putting any psychological addiction in the same category as physiological addiction like alcohol or heroin, because they're not the same thing at all.
Also, when I was a kid I was addicted to a particular computer game. I have managed to overcome that psychological addiction without giving up computer games for the rest of my life, i can do computer/smartphone games in moderation these days. Even candy crush. Psychological addictions don't have to mean abstinence for the rest of your life, and the attempt at abstinence may even be counterproductive long term. Learning how to enjoy life's pleasures, especially food and sex, without harming yourself in the process (i.e. avoiding obesity, nutritional deficiency, STDs and unwanted pregnancy) is a really important life skill.
And as for evolution and the release of neurotransmitters in the brain in response to eating food, YES this happens with natural foods that our ancestors would have eaten, like fruit and honey. Because it's normal human physiology. And you get them in response to sex, playing sport and all kinds of other pleasurable activities. Why? Because Homo erectus didn't have enough frontal lobe to realise that having sex, hunting animals for sport and eating foods that have lots of calories are important things to do to stay alive and keep the species growing, so those who found those activities pleasurable because they released certain neurotransmitters into the brain survived better and left their genes in the population, and so their descendents, Homo sapiens, also find these activities pleasurable and have the same neurotransmitter responses in their brain. So to sum up, the reason why people like sweet tasting foods and find it hard to eat them in moderation is because the Homo erectus people who liked to eat ALL the honey and all the sweet tasting fruits when he or she could get them won at natural selection.
quoting for emphasis.
I think the point that is being missed in this highlighted statement is the assumption that everyone thinks and reacts to mental stimuli (if that is the correct term) the same.
What maybe addictive for one person may not be for another. Hence why most of the population can function normally whilst including alcohol into the lives and others cannot.
Seems a bit strange that we cannot accept that food can be addictive!
I thought the 'A' word was one of the words we were going to try and eliminate from MFP.0 -
I've been addicited to cocaine and I've also had bulimia. I found the cocaine addiction much easier to kick than the binge eating.
Everyone is different. Moderation works for some people, it does not work for others. It is easy to make judgement on other people based on your own experience, even when you think you are being helpful or openminded.
One of the ways I avoid relapsing into bulimia is by not eating certain foods. And no I don't feel deprived. Moderation does not work for me with these foods. I only feel deprived if I try moderation. This is me. I know myself very well.
Moderation is deprivation. You are saying to your brain "look here is a tiny bit of hyper-palatable food.... you can have this tiny bit but no more... " - for me the fact that the deprivation ("no more") bit comes AFTER the taste (reminder, trigger, whatever) of highly palatable food makes it harder to deal with, hence feeling less deprived when I cut these things out of my diet entirely. I only crave these things if I have them. And if I have a little I crave more and more and more and more.... But if I don't eat it at all I just forget about it, I don't crave it at all.
This is ME. Other people may find moderation works better for them. But please don't assume that because it works for you you have found the one true path.0 -
It is one way to achieve moderation, but it's not what the OP was talking about.
But isn't that actually just one way to achieve moderation? You don't eat Doritos everyday, but you don't (apparently) cut them out of your diet completely.
I'ma go ahead and disagree opie, quantity is itself a quality.Do the things that make you happy in moderation!
If you restrict too much, you'll surely fail and binge on what you think is causing the issue.
If you don't try new things, you'll never know what really works and what doesn't.
(snippity)
When I eat Doritos, I'll eat a bag (a big one) washed down by a few beers. I won't do so every day, but every now and again is fine.
(snippity)
If you are happy with your diet and you can sustain it long term doing whatever you are doing, then good for you! Don't change.
For instance, I don't keep Doritos at home; nor do I make any effort to fit a family-sized bag of Doritos into my macros and have no intention of doing so in the future.
As a result, while I love flexible dieting, I have adopted some habits from restrictive dieting (cheat days, restricting access, etc...) since it's pretty much the only way I can eat my Doritos and enjoy them too.
I totally support your second statement though. In fact, I think a lot of the drama and acrimony on this forum would go away if people accepted that they are not the collective consciousness of the human race and as such should never speak for anyone but themselves.
He's a friend of the OP's
How do I meet this "moderation" you speak of?I've tried it, I can do it, got the postcard and the t-shirt. It performs anilingus on simians.0
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