Everything in moderation
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I want to cut things out of my diet and add different things to my diet. A lot of people do this and sustain it. Being told that this method leads to certain failure is just ridiculous.
I'm not going to sit around telling all the people who eat whatever they want in moderation to stop or they're going to fail for sure. What they do is their business and that is what works for them. It wouldn't for me and it never has, as many times as I've tried. And that is okay. And it's good if it works for you. Whatever works to get the weight off, keep it off and be happy. It's not unhealthy to switch to lower calorie stuff and fruits and veggies. Especially if we're comfortable and like the change.
I feel like some people are literally trying to rub it in the faces of the people that DO cut out certain foods or laugh at people who do this. What's that about? I'm happy with your diet if you're happy with it! Be happy for the other people doing this and being healthy and having success. Don't tell them they are doomed. That's not kind and in no way is it a fact.
I shouldn't knock certain foods and I don't. I don't get why knocking an entire food plan is okay. It's actually exactly the same but in reverse.
Yeah, I disagree with the OP too. I have no problem with people not stocking their shelves with highly savory foods that they are likely to eat too much of.0 -
All of that sounds lovely and I wish I were able to do it...
There are certain things I just cannot have in my house, ice cream being one of them. I bought frozen yogurt this week and the gallon was gone in 4 days.
Some people are seemingly unable to control themselves when it comes to certain "trigger foods". In theory everything in moderation sounds fabulous, but in practice it's not always best for everyone.
You wouldn't tell an alcoholic to enjoy a couple beers in moderation, would you? I'd hope not...
alcohol is an addictive drug which causes physiological changes in the body that leads to physiological dependence
food is something that's supposed to be in your body because that's how animals evolved
not the same
WORD!!! DO NOT use alcohol or drugs as a comparision. I HATE when people do that.
And by the way I notice the words "I can't" being used. Replace it with "I won't" because we CAN stop if we want to. I don't care how many feathers I ruffle. It's frugging true and we all know it.
then how do you explain this?
LMFAO!0 -
Do the things that make you happy in moderation!
If you restrict too much, you'll surely fail and binge on what you think is causing the issue.
If you don't try new things, you'll never know what really works and what doesn't.
Relax and live!
TOTALLY agree. This is the healthiest (mentally and physically) I've ever been thanks to not restricting ANYTHING. There's always a fad of what's bad for you, a few years ago fat was the devil, now sugar is evil. In a few years we'll find out woops sugars not bad, its VEGETABLES that are bad. Eat a chocolate bar if you want one! Just fit it in with your daily calories.
You won't be sat on your death bed thinking "thank god i didn't eat pizza and chocolate my whole life." 0 -
I thought the 'A' word was one of the words we were going to try and eliminate from MFP.
I love the A word though - it's great for debates.
But I do only use it in moderation.0 -
I could not agree with you more! Moderation is key for all things in life, in my opinion.0
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All of that sounds lovely and I wish I were able to do it...
There are certain things I just cannot have in my house, ice cream being one of them. I bought frozen yogurt this week and the gallon was gone in 4 days.
Some people are seemingly unable to control themselves when it comes to certain "trigger foods". In theory everything in moderation sounds fabulous, but in practice it's not always best for everyone.
You wouldn't tell an alcoholic to enjoy a couple beers in moderation, would you? I'd hope not...
Rubbish. Alcohol is a drug, an addictive substance, food is not.
Anyone can eat in moderation if you physically serve yourself reasonable portions of food.
Comments like this really irritate me. People with an alcohol addiction, or a drug addiction, receive sympathy and help. People that have an eating disorder such an anorexia or bulimia, receive sympathy and help. Turn that eating disorder round though, and make it someone that has a binge eating disorder, and suddenly that person doesn't deserve sympathy and help. In too many cases, they are just labelled as greedy or lacking self-control.
As someone that suffers from binge eating, I can't have certain foods in the house. Sometimes the whole 'eat it in moderation' thing works, but sometimes it doesn't. And if I do have a bit of an emotional munch, having the stuff readily available in the house is not good. Having to physically drive to the supermarket to buy things for my binge gives me a chance to put that in perspective.
To the OP; demonizing food on this forum is a problem, but so is the 'this is what works for me and so you should all do it' approach that so many here seem to have. You included.
If food weren't an issue, groups like Overeater's Anonymous wouldn't exist. Binge Eating Disorder is an actual eating disorder and it's in the DSM and probably the ICD. It's a real issue and I understand why you are offended.
I've had eating disorders from anorexia, to bulimia to overeating. I know what you're talking about and I can see that the ignorance on the topic can be infuriating.
However, some people just aren't educated on the matter, and that isn't their fault. Some people don't believe any mental illness exists; those people are also infuriating, but there is no arguing with them.
I can't keep problem foods around either. If I become depressed, the only thing that makes me happy is food and no, I DON'T have control over it. I also have recurring episodes of depression so it's an issue.
So I understand "no moderation" on certain foods. I do that as well! I don't know if I'll ever eat french fries again. If that's what it takes to keep me at a healthy weight, that's what I'll do!
I'm glad it works for some people! That's fantastic. But there literally are people that CAN NOT do this without going overboard. If they could, they wouldn't have a diagnosable mental illness.
/rant.
No one, in this entire thread, has denied that eating disorders exist. There was a mild dust-up regarding 'disordered eating' vs an 'eating disorder'. No need to blow it out of proportion or get personally offended by it.
I don't see why it should matter if I'm offended. If I were, that's on me, not anyone here. I'm not, however it's annoying to read that the diets without moderation lead to certain doom. I can accept that someone's diet with moderation will work because that's what works for them. That's great. Telling a large group of people (many who have had serious issues with some of this) that they can easily do the same is ignorant. Ignorance isn't offensive to me. It's annoying. That's all.0 -
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AT THE END OF THE DAY IF YOU ARE HAPPY, YOU'RE DOING IT RIGHT!
Agree!!0 -
I agree with you OP but the problem I have is the moderation part. Since this journey I have not cut out any of my loves, I just do not eat them as much as I used to so I have been surprisingly successful. I could eat 4 bags of crisps a day and now I can take it or leave it, but my problem is the cookies I cannot have one or two then stop they keep calling me until the packet is almost done. So i have now decided to buy one giant cookie or a pack of 5. If I buy the pack of 5 I am eating one cookie a day. I will not call myself a success until I can just stop at one or two chocolate digestives. And I know lots of people will say just say no or I do not want it bad enough but i am still WIP.0
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Ive seen this experiment done on tv too, and its true,, there is a chemical response in the rats mind that makes them eat more of it. I know for a while that when we eat sweet things it does the same too us. In a rat experiment they fed rats butter and sugar, on their own the rats were not that interested, put the 2 together in the form of something like cheesecake and they got very fat on it.
I was waiting for someone to come back with this, you didn't disappoint me!
And do you think when eating at at deficit when you're more likely to be suspectible to binge eating is a good time to try and address the issues?For those saying "that's great, but that doesn't work for me because I can't control myself",
Might it not be better, say, when you've reached your goal weight and are eating more?
Please provide just one that proves it is an addictive drug to humans.Refined sugar is also an addictive drug, and numerous studies have proven this to be true.
And we're talking working the same way as an addictive drug, not the same way that people can get addicted to ANYTHING they enjoy.
Just because something hasn't been scientifically proven (yet!) to be true, it doesn't mean it isn't. In the case of sugar addiction, I default to common sense. Besides, as far as the definition of addiction goes, sugar fits in there quite nicely. Just think of kids coming down off a sugar high!
So for me, I'm not going to wait until it's been proven, I'm going to be smart, do my health and well being a favor, and keep it out of my life. There are too many natural whole food "candies" out there to enjoy anyway. :happy:
You're the one saying there are studies about the addictiveness of refined sugar, so could you provide a link to one? Not being snarky, just asking for a link.
On my phone so can't post links but just google 'rats sugar cocaine' and you will find studies.
Sugar is more addictive in rats than cocaine. Yes we're not rats but considering how much of our medical science comes from these kinds of tests this is probably worth something.
Might revisit this with some links when have access to a computer.0 -
I agree with you OP but the problem I have is the moderation part. Since this journey I have not cut out any of my loves, I just do not eat them as much as I used to so I have been surprisingly successful. I could eat 4 bags of crisps a day and now I can take it or leave it, but my problem is the cookies I cannot have one or two then stop they keep calling me until the packet is almost done. So i have now decided to buy one giant cookie or a pack of 5. If I buy the pack of 5 I am eating one cookie a day. I will not call myself a success until I can just stop at one or two chocolate digestives. And I know lots of people will say just say no or I do not want it bad enough but i am still WIP.
But...this looks like moderation to me. You eat one cookie a day. You aren't demonizing cookies. You aren't eating all the cookies. You aren't eliminating cookies. You are moderating a happy balance of cookie consumption and making it fit in your diet.
I would give this a gold star.0 -
If you know someone who says "I can't eat XYZ food because I cannot control myself when I eat it." They need to add this food to their week.
Why?
Because if you believe the 1 food you love so much is making you fat because you binge eat it, that's because you're trying to completely eliminate it. Eat the ****ing food and enjoy it in moderation! Fit it into your macros! The psychological anguish you have thinking about this food you love is far far worse than simply having a serving of it every few nights. Especially on lifting days.
This type of mentality should be used in just about everything you do!
Except of course the love you have for your family and friends! ;D
Seriously though.
All over this forum I see people demonizing food and activities.
Sugar causes diabetes so I cannot have any sugar at all.
Saturated fat causes heart disease so I cannot have saturated fat at all.
When I go bowling, I drink beer. I cannot bowl ever again.
Paleo is the only way to live.
Ketogenic diets are the only diets that work.
Strong Lifts 5x5 is the only way to lift weights.
Calisthenics rule and if you want to be lean, only do calisthenics.
All of that is total Bull****!
Do the things that make you happy in moderation!
If you restrict too much, you'll surely fail and binge on what you think is causing the issue.
If you don't try new things, you'll never know what really works and what doesn't.
Relax and live!
This is why I have a piece of chocolate every day (oh yes and sugar free whipped heavy cream as often as possible IIFYM)
Oh yes and pizza I always manage to fit in pizza
Life without pizza was not worth living (keto anyone)
YUMMLY0 -
I think that for some people (maybe not all, so no point in getting all butthurt), they won't allow themselves any "treats" because they are punishing themselves for "being bad" (allowing themselves to gain weight).
When they're able to forgive themselves, they can eat the "forbidden" stuff in moderation.
Just something to ponder.
^^^^ bumping because Dame Piglet said what I've been trying to say all along just much more succinctly
when I abandoned the "forbidden foods"/mustn't eat this mentality, I suddenly could eat a whole bunch of foods in moderation that I compusively overate on previously.
This is what I was getting at too. Another piece of the puzzle to me was not under-eating at the same time.0 -
I agree with you OP but the problem I have is the moderation part. Since this journey I have not cut out any of my loves, I just do not eat them as much as I used to so I have been surprisingly successful. I could eat 4 bags of crisps a day and now I can take it or leave it, but my problem is the cookies I cannot have one or two then stop they keep calling me until the packet is almost done. So i have now decided to buy one giant cookie or a pack of 5. If I buy the pack of 5 I am eating one cookie a day. I will not call myself a success until I can just stop at one or two chocolate digestives. And I know lots of people will say just say no or I do not want it bad enough but i am still WIP.
But...this looks like moderation to me. You eat one cookie a day. You aren't demonizing cookies. You aren't eating all the cookies. You aren't eliminating cookies. You are moderating a happy balance of cookie consumption and making it fit in your diet.
I would give this a gold star.
Thank you. I could never demonize cookies. lol0 -
The internet is NOT reputable.reputable sources on the internet0 -
I think what is not being understood is not that we are craving the food we choose not to buy, but that having some of the food CREATES THE CRAVING.. I don't go around craving cinnamon buns, rarely ever think of them, but if I go to the bakery and smell them, the craving starts and heaven help me if I buy them, I will eat at least four before I stop. And even if I bought one, the calorie count is a whole meals worth of calories for me so what is point exactly ?
I enjoy eating gala apples, they taste amazing but I don't get a craving to have a second or third apple after I eat one. There is the difference.0 -
Love it!0
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All of that sounds lovely and I wish I were able to do it...
Me too. I do so much better when I'm able to eliminate certain foods from my diet. I really can't eat just one or two.0 -
I think what is not being understood is not that we are craving the food we choose not to buy, but that having some of the food CREATES THE CRAVING.. I don't go around craving cinnamon buns, rarely ever think of them, but if I go to the bakery and smell them, the craving starts and heaven help me if I buy them, I will eat at least four before I stop. And even if I bought one, the calorie count is a whole meals worth of calories for me so what is point exactly ?
I enjoy eating gala apples, they taste amazing but I don't get a craving to have a second or third apple after I eat one. There is the difference.
I enjoy green vegetables and will eat them if they're around. But I've never had a craving for excessive amounts of celery, cucumbers, and mesclun. There have been articles on how the brain responds differently to fat and sugar. The source of some of the cravings for some people is biochemical.0 -
If you know someone who says "I can't eat XYZ food because I cannot control myself when I eat it." They need to add this food to their week.
Why?
Because if you believe the 1 food you love so much is making you fat because you binge eat it, that's because you're trying to completely eliminate it. Eat the ****ing food and enjoy it in moderation! Fit it into your macros! The psychological anguish you have thinking about this food you love is far far worse than simply having a serving of it every few nights. Especially on lifting days.
This type of mentality should be used in just about everything you do!
Except of course the love you have for your family and friends! ;D
Seriously though.
All over this forum I see people demonizing food and activities.
Sugar causes diabetes so I cannot have any sugar at all.
Saturated fat causes heart disease so I cannot have saturated fat at all.
When I go bowling, I drink beer. I cannot bowl ever again.
Paleo is the only way to live.
Ketogenic diets are the only diets that work.
Strong Lifts 5x5 is the only way to lift weights.
Calisthenics rule and if you want to be lean, only do calisthenics.
All of that is total Bull****!
Do the things that make you happy in moderation!
If you restrict too much, you'll surely fail and binge on what you think is causing the issue.
If you don't try new things, you'll never know what really works and what doesn't.
Relax and live!
This is why I have a piece of chocolate every day (oh yes and sugar free whipped heavy cream as often as possible IIFYM)
Oh yes and pizza I always manage to fit in pizza
Life without pizza was not worth living (keto anyone)
YUMMLY
I'm doing quite well without pizza - it's just a matter or will power to start with (either you've got it or you haven't), after that once i weaned myself off them, I realised I was making a fuss about nothing. Lol0 -
I think what is not being understood is not that we are craving the food we choose not to buy, but that having some of the food CREATES THE CRAVING.. I don't go around craving cinnamon buns, rarely ever think of them, but if I go to the bakery and smell them, the craving starts and heaven help me if I buy them, I will eat at least four before I stop. And even if I bought one, the calorie count is a whole meals worth of calories for me so what is point exactly ?
I enjoy eating gala apples, they taste amazing but I don't get a craving to have a second or third apple after I eat one. There is the difference.
I actually do the same with arugula. But nobody cares, because it's basically fiber.0 -
I think this is actually a great idea for me personally. So many times I've tried different diets or programs where you can't eat certain foods. I would drive myself silly seeing all these foods I enjoyed but "couldn't have" & would cave in eventually due to lack of self control. Once I'd cave once, I'd usually do it again and fall right off the bandwagon. I would also find myself over indulging when I'd cave in and actually have far more than if I had just portioned it out to begin with.
My husband and I are working together this time around and are simply calorie counting, measuring our food (we were having huge portion control issues) & exercising daily (which we did not do before). We still eat what we want, however, we are very conscious of portion sizes and making better choices (i.e.- hard yogurt vs. ice cream, etc.). Obviously we're not eating peanut butter cups and "junk" daily, however, if we want a little piece of something in moderation on occasion, we will allow it.
So far, this seems like an approach that I can adopt as a long term lifestyle change that I can stick with and not drive myself crazy at the end of the day. I think I will see better results by focusing on portion control and exercise, but still eating what I like. It wasn't so much what we were eating before - we do pretty well with that, it was lack of exercise & big problems with portion control. We've already seen some great results on the scale and in the way we physically & mentally feel. 0 -
All of that sounds lovely and I wish I were able to do it...
There are certain things I just cannot have in my house, ice cream being one of them. I bought frozen yogurt this week and the gallon was gone in 4 days.
Some people are seemingly unable to control themselves when it comes to certain "trigger foods". In theory everything in moderation sounds fabulous, but in practice it's not always best for everyone.
You wouldn't tell an alcoholic to enjoy a couple beers in moderation, would you? I'd hope not...
alcohol is an addictive drug which causes physiological changes in the body that leads to physiological dependence
food is something that's supposed to be in your body because that's how animals evolved
not the same
WORD!!! DO NOT use alcohol or drugs as a comparision. I HATE when people do that.
And by the way I notice the words "I can't" being used. Replace it with "I won't" because we CAN stop if we want to. I don't care how many feathers I ruffle. It's frugging true and we all know it.
then how do you explain this?
Idiocy, fear mongering, misinformed, dogmatic.
If you believe sugar is the issue, explain the Australian Paradox.0 -
OK moderation does not mean keeping the food in your house people. I can't have Vienna fingers in my house as I will just eat the entire thing. However, if I want and I see a single serving package, I can have that. It won't make me pig out because one day I had these cookies.
Everything in moderation means, its OK to have desert once in a while.
Sugar in your coffee will not kill you!
Having a chocolate pudding for desert will not derail a diet.
One chocolate bar will not make you fat.
Weight watchers has been successful for 40 years or so with this simple approach. They are the long lasting diet plan out there. Nutrisystem and Jenny Craig give you the food, but the same concept applies, they have puddings and deserts and pizza. You don't need to demonize food, but you do need to balance what you eat. Balance in diet and life is how you get healthy.
FYI, most of the diets that people swear by are fad diets. At one point Atkins was all the rage, don't hear too much about that anymore. My mom did a very very low fat diet and started losing her hair. Grapefruit diet was the best ever 20 years ago, where did that go? Extreme diets are fads. I am not saying that eating Raw is not healthy, choosing a to be a vegetarian or vegan is healthy, making a choice to eliminate processed foods is healthy too.
But, couldn't you eat the yummy foods then get in your very fantastic Tardis and go back and not let yourself eat that food? Wouldn't that accomplish both eating and not eating?
Would you need to log it if your ate it, but then you didn't? I'm confusing myself.0 -
OK moderation does not mean keeping the food in your house people. I can't have Vienna fingers in my house as I will just eat the entire thing. However, if I want and I see a single serving package, I can have that. It won't make me pig out because one day I had these cookies.
Everything in moderation means, its OK to have desert once in a while.
Sugar in your coffee will not kill you!
Having a chocolate pudding for desert will not derail a diet.
One chocolate bar will not make you fat.
Weight watchers has been successful for 40 years or so with this simple approach. They are the long lasting diet plan out there. Nutrisystem and Jenny Craig give you the food, but the same concept applies, they have puddings and deserts and pizza. You don't need to demonize food, but you do need to balance what you eat. Balance in diet and life is how you get healthy.
FYI, most of the diets that people swear by are fad diets. At one point Atkins was all the rage, don't hear too much about that anymore. My mom did a very very low fat diet and started losing her hair. Grapefruit diet was the best ever 20 years ago, where did that go? Extreme diets are fads. I am not saying that eating Raw is not healthy, choosing a to be a vegetarian or vegan is healthy, making a choice to eliminate processed foods is healthy too.
But, couldn't you eat the yummy foods then get in your very fantastic Tardis and go back and not let yourself eat that food? Wouldn't that accomplish both eating and not eating?
Would you need to log it if your ate it, but then you didn't? I'm confusing myself.
Lol you could go back and tell yourself that it gave you wepons grade flatulence!
Look.
I know I've sparked some good debates on the subject and appreciate the feedback.
I know we have addictions and mental illness and a slew of other issues.
What I see here on a daily basis is people obsessing o er e very calorie passing between their lips.
I see people confusing correlation vs causation.
I see a lot of BS dogma.
Any one of my clients will tell you that I generally do t say "eat this not that."
You eat smart to fuel training and maintain a 70% healthy whole food choice, and have fun with the rest!
Stressing about it causes more damage than just eating it and being happy.
BEEING HAPPY MODARFALKERS!!!
Were all in here brawling about this and that, chill and live life!
Okay who's next?0 -
I agree with the OP. I think where people get derailed is reading "you can have everything in moderation" as "you must have these foods available at all times and control yourself." The OP is merely suggesting that rather than denying yourself a certain food that you enjoy completely, you figure out a way to make it work in your life in moderation.
Each one of use determines what moderation means for ourselves. It could mean only have cake on special occasions, or only buying the single serving package of Reese's peanut butter cups rather than the entire bag of mini cups when you have a craving. As another poster mentioned, going out to an ice cream shop for a cone when the craving hits rather than buying an entire gallon.
The idea is finding a way to fit foods you like and enjoy into your life without going overboard. If you don't enjoy a food, no one is saying you have to eat it or that you have a problem if you choose not to eat it, and I think that goes for all types of food.0 -
Yes! If I buy a packet of cookies I eat them all - so I only buy the twinpacks or little packs with 5 in them. That's a HUGE binge - 5 cookies - NOT!
A little bit of what you fancy goes a long way
I have one large latte made at home in the mornings with raw sugar and a cup of tea in the afternoon with 1 white sugar , the rest of the time I drink water - I don't feel deprived at all and the morning caffeine hit is wonderful0 -
To hazelclark, I have seen and read articles that suggest our predeliction for sugar, simple carbs and fat is because we are hungry for protein which, apart from protein-rich animal products is often found in conjunction with carbs (e.g. grain products and carbs) and/or sugar and fat (vegies, fruit and nuts) in smaller concentrations.
The theory is that the body wants to eat enough of these to get the protein it needs, which is why we have the drive to continue to eat the carb and fat-rich food in such quantities.
Eat more lean/ good protein people with moderate carbs and fat - works for me - 24kg lost!0 -
Thank you Dan, for some common sense among all the butthurt!
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I agree with the OP. I think where people get derailed is reading "you can have everything in moderation" as "you must have these foods available at all times and control yourself." The OP is merely suggesting that rather than denying yourself a certain food that you enjoy completely, you figure out a way to make it work in your life in moderation.
Sounds like I should be having it this week.They need to add this food to their week.
Not the case for me. I eat cheese because I like cheese. I can easily eat a whole 350/400g block of cheese EVERY day and continue doing so for extended periods. Did I mention I like cheese?Because if you believe the 1 food you love so much is making you fat because you binge eat it, that's because you're trying to completely eliminate it.
It takes me a few week to 'detox' (:P) from cheese and then I don't really miss it.
In the past I can remember portioning myself out 100 calories of normal cheese. It was a ridiculously small amount.
These days it's more a case that on low calorie days I don't want to fill up my macros with it and on lifting days I'm trying not to let my fat go TOO high.
I do still have low fat cheese (the weight watchers one is particularly good with 30g protein and 10g fat per 100g, but it only comes in small packs and is expensive. The 200g pack never lasts more than the day, but I don't mind with those macros.
Each one of use determines what moderation means for ourselves. It could mean only have cake on special occasions, or only buying the single serving package of Reese's peanut butter cups rather than the entire bag of mini cups when you have a craving. As another poster mentioned, going out to an ice cream shop for a cone when the craving hits rather than buying an entire gallon.
The idea is finding a way to fit foods you like and enjoy into your life without going overboard. If you don't enjoy a food, no one is saying you have to eat it or that you have a problem if you choose not to eat it, and I think that goes for all types of food.
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