Vegetarians found more unhealthy. Interesting article.

jonnythan

Vegetarians tend to eat a lot of dairy. That stuff is terrible. Even the paleo crowd figured out to avoid it like the plague.

....... That's your conclusion from this study?

Seriously?

jonnythan

There are many more university and hospital studies that say the opposite. Plus, you have to find out who funds that magazine and who funds the person or organization that wrote the article. There's a lot of money spent every DAY by the cattle and dairy industries to discredit people who promote not eating their products. It usually comes down to economics. And big corporate concerns don't want you messing with their profit whether it's animal products or other consumer goods.

The study was not from that magazine the study was out of Austria which I don't think has a big corporate meat industry.

Scientific journals can have backers that want to promote certain studies over others, and meat can be imported, so it makes sense to look at where the funding came from.

And did you do that for this study?

I did.

jonnythan

Here's something I posted earlier on FB while discussing this article:


"That said, I'm not sure this study tells us a whole lot. It associates vegetarianism with a host of health problems.. but it's entirely possible causation is the other way. People with chronic health issues often look to their diet for a way out of it. People with nagging health issues, or who are prone to sickness, may turn to alternative diets like vegetarianism at a higher rate."

hilly510

There are many more university and hospital studies that say the opposite. Plus, you have to find out who funds that magazine and who funds the person or organization that wrote the article. There's a lot of money spent every DAY by the cattle and dairy industries to discredit people who promote not eating their products. It usually comes down to economics. And big corporate concerns don't want you messing with their profit whether it's animal products or other consumer goods.

The study was not from that magazine the study was out of Austria which I don't think has a big corporate meat industry.

Scientific journals can have backers that want to promote certain studies over others, and meat can be imported, so it makes sense to look at where the funding came from.

And did you do that for this study?

I did.

Nope, not yet, I got sidetracked. What did you find?

Graelwyn75

All that article and the results suggested to me was what I have always thought.
All things in moderation, and in balance.

jonnythan

Give it time. If you came to MFP to pick on those who are earlier on their journey than you, you probably ought to find a new site. This was me 2 years before that bike photo was taken, when i ate plenty of animal protein.

In all seriousness, you probably have a solid 20 pounds more muscle mass in this picture than you do currently. I can only assume that you lost all this mass because you did not do resistance training nor did you eat a high-protein diet while losing the weight.

Also: the vegan bodybuilder you posted is only recently vegan and was an admitted steroid-using meat-eating bodybuilder most of his life.

jonnythan

There are many more university and hospital studies that say the opposite. Plus, you have to find out who funds that magazine and who funds the person or organization that wrote the article. There's a lot of money spent every DAY by the cattle and dairy industries to discredit people who promote not eating their products. It usually comes down to economics. And big corporate concerns don't want you messing with their profit whether it's animal products or other consumer goods.

The study was not from that magazine the study was out of Austria which I don't think has a big corporate meat industry.

Scientific journals can have backers that want to promote certain studies over others, and meat can be imported, so it makes sense to look at where the funding came from.

And did you do that for this study?

I did.

Nope, not yet, I got sidetracked. What did you find?

I found that the journal is open-access and author funded, and the authors of the study had no affiliations or funding that would be conflicting.

Dragonwolf

There are many more university and hospital studies that say the opposite. Plus, you have to find out who funds that magazine and who funds the person or organization that wrote the article. There's a lot of money spent every DAY by the cattle and dairy industries to discredit people who promote not eating their products. It usually comes down to economics. And big corporate concerns don't want you messing with their profit whether it's animal products or other consumer goods.

The study was not from that magazine the study was out of Austria which I don't think has a big corporate meat industry.

Scientific journals can have backers that want to promote certain studies over others, and meat can be imported, so it makes sense to look at where the funding came from.

The problem with every pro-veg*n paper/study I've seen (regardless of credibility) is that they compare to the Standard American/Western Diet. That's a high bar when it comes to health. *eyeroll* I personally would be more interested in studies that compared whole food diets to whole food diets (ie - a proper vegetarian diet vs a proper Paleo diet).

That said, please remember your stated standards the next time The China Study or Forks Over Knives are cited in a conversation as support for veg*nism. I have no problem with the notion that there should be certain standards when citing research, just please make sure everyone is being held to the same ones.

MapleFlavouredMaiden

I was aware of the mental illness being more prevalent due to most vegetarians eating very low fat in general which causes chemical imbalances in the brain.

Interesting findings on the rest of the stuff.

I will stick with eating my meat, vegetables and fruit.

Absolutely agree with this. I was veg for 5 years and that's why I'm so mentally unstable. Getting better one bacon slice at a time.

somefitsomefat

Science FTW
[img][/img]

Everyone takes good and bad photos. Genetics and luck of the draw are a big factor in beauty too.

hilly510

There are many more university and hospital studies that say the opposite. Plus, you have to find out who funds that magazine and who funds the person or organization that wrote the article. There's a lot of money spent every DAY by the cattle and dairy industries to discredit people who promote not eating their products. It usually comes down to economics. And big corporate concerns don't want you messing with their profit whether it's animal products or other consumer goods.

The study was not from that magazine the study was out of Austria which I don't think has a big corporate meat industry.

Scientific journals can have backers that want to promote certain studies over others, and meat can be imported, so it makes sense to look at where the funding came from.

The problem with every pro-veg*n paper/study I've seen (regardless of credibility) is that they compare to the Standard American/Western Diet. That's a high bar when it comes to health. *eyeroll*

That said, please remember your stated standards the next time The China Study or Forks Over Knives are cited in a conversation as support for veg*nism.

Ummmmm, I do, that's why I brought up the point of looking into funding sources. The fact that I'm vegetarian has nothing to do with the fact that I know how to decide if a scientific article is credible. My Biology degree can take credit for that.

skinnyEmilijah

I want to lighten the mood and point out that you are sitting next to Colonel Sanders?! Maybe it has just been a long day at work...but that makes me laugh!

That's at the original Kentucky Fried Chicken in Corbin, KY.

I thought the original KFC was here in Utah.

That being said, I don't like KFC so I may be wrong.

ironanimal

Science FTW
[img][/img]

Everyone takes good and bad photos. Genetics and luck of the draw are a big factor in beauty too.

Eh, the brunette looks healthier to me.

Bernadette60614

There is a class of vegetarians called "French fry vegetarians". When I was in college, a lot of my friends dabbled in vegetarianism and began living on cheese pizzas and vegetarian pastries. They were very unhealthy.

I've been a vegetarian (almost vegan) for 20 years. I'm over 50 now, my BMI is 21, my cholesterol is ideal, my blood pressure is as well. Next week, I'm doing the Hustle Up the Hancock (which I've done annually for the last 5 years.) I weight train seriously (one of my goals is to be a senior weight lifting competitor). I'd like to lose a few lbs to be able to competitive stairclimb which is why I'm here on MFP.

I'm not sure why discussions about vegetarianism become so contentious.

What you eat is your choice, what I eat is my choice.

If you feel good and you are where you want to be, I wish you well.

I hope people will wish me well in my choices.

nomeejerome

I want to lighten the mood and point out that you are sitting next to Colonel Sanders?! Maybe it has just been a long day at work...but that makes me laugh!

That's at the original Kentucky Fried Chicken in Corbin, KY.

I thought the original KFC was here in Utah.

That being said, I don't like KFC so I may be wrong.

umm..
It is Kentucky Fried Chicken, not Utah Fried Chicken.

PaleoPath4Lyfe

Well, it's certainly not difficult to have more trouble getting the appropriate nutrients when you cut stuff out of your diet, so I'm not very surprised. Vegetarians have to work harder at balanced meals, and there are tons of vegetarians who seem to subsist on fries and white bread (especially young ones and those who are vegetarian for ethical reasons rather than health ones.) There's also a pretty substantial number of people with eating disorders who become "vegetarian" so it's easier to restrict food in public.

Ideally, everyone should be paying attention to their macro and micro nutrient intake and getting everything their bodies need, but vegetarians and other people who restrict their diets (paleo etc) need to be extra careful, obviously.

No need to throw paleo in with that. When you are eating an abundance of protein, fats, vegetables, fruit, nuts and seeds it is not hard at all to meet both your micronutrient and macronutrient needs.

One main reason my Doctor recommends the Paleo Lifestyle to his patients to get them off medications and just eating real food.

I should have known I'd get the paleo police on my case here...they're like Betelgeuse except you only have to say the word once for them to appear.

Yes, whole foods are good. Restricting your diet from a huge number of foods can be bad if you're not careful.

I'm not the Paleo police. I just don't appreciate people stating that you will be deficient eating this way.

Eating this way is what DID correct my deficiencies.

PaleoPath4Lyfe

Just one study, ya'll. Let's not get crazy.

Also, they don't factor in genetics to this.

But I will say that I found it most interesting about Mental Health. My sister was diagnosed bipolar & she was told to basically eat clean.

Yes. I am also bi-polar and no longer have symptoms unless I eat a lot of sugar or packaged foods. Which I don't any longer, so my moods are pretty stable.

PaleoPath4Lyfe

what about vegans?

Do you really want to open that can of worms???

http://www.science20.com/science_20/meat_eaters_are_more_tolerant_vegans-117979

skinnyEmilijah

I want to lighten the mood and point out that you are sitting next to Colonel Sanders?! Maybe it has just been a long day at work...but that makes me laugh!

That's at the original Kentucky Fried Chicken in Corbin, KY.

I thought the original KFC was here in Utah.

That being said, I don't like KFC so I may be wrong.

umm..
It is Kentucky Fried Chicken, not Utah Fried Chicken.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KFC

The first franchise was in Salt Lake. But the colonel's original restaraunt was in Corbin.

Glad I googled it, because I was thinking the same thing.

RunBakeLove

She's half right...the first franchise is in Utah. I've been there and the side of it says "World's first KFC" or something. The difference is the one in KY is Kentucky Fried Chicken and not KFC. Or something.

Edited for grammar