Fat Positivity?

ghostsnstuff

I was on Tumblr before and was looking at the fitspo tag, found some angry "fatspo" bloggers. What do you guys think? Some of them are literally promoting obesity and claiming "thin privilege" even though almost all of their problems could be solved by losing weight. They claim to love their bodies and actively bash thin people, but IMHO if their was a button that they could push that would make them thin, they would push it. Thoughts?

uconnwinsnc

My body is like a brand new Ferrari 458. I absolutely love it and I need to take care of it. My "Ferrari" has to last me until I die. I don't want my "Ferrari" to turn into a "1971 Ford Pinto" by the time I am 45.

Abnersama

After dealing with extremely frustrating and scary health problems because of how much I had weighed (I thought I wasn't going to live long much longer if I didn't kick into gear) I cannot say I could see how anyone would want to be in a body that is holding them back from doing so many awesome things. The fact that for the first time since I was a kid I will be in shape to jog without my weight heaving with me at every step is just fantastic.

I am trying to help my mother lose some weight herself because she started having issues with her legs. It took forever and her doctor telling her that the scars on her legs will be permanent, but it will stop getting worse if she loses the weight.

It's fine to be happy and fat, but I don't think people should be happy with their fat. I know I wasn't, so I wanted to get rid of it. I'm sure everyone could use a bit of a push, but some people will just flat out not listen to any reason. Why? I wish I knew.

uconnwinsnc

After dealing with extremely frustrating and scary health problems because of how much I had weighed (I thought I wasn't going to live long much longer if I didn't kick into gear) I cannot say I could see how anyone would want to be in a body that is holding them back from doing so many awesome things. The fact that for the first time since I was a kid I will be in shape to jog without my weight heaving with me at every step is just fantastic.

I am trying to help my mother lose some weight herself because she started having issues with her legs. It took forever and her doctor telling her that the scars on her legs will be permanent, but it will stop getting worse if she loses the weight.

It's fine to be happy and fat, but I don't think people should be happy with their fat. I know I wasn't, so I wanted to get rid of it. I'm sure everyone could use a bit of a push, but some people will just flat out not listen to any reason. Why? I wish I knew.

Truth right here. Congrats man on 92 pounds. That's an insane amount. :happy:

colortheworld

The whole fat acceptance trend is one of my favorite rants.

What Abnersama said... it's okay to be fat and happy but not happy with your fat.

It just ain't healthy, people.

Unknown

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neandermagnon

I'm very much against discrimination against people based on size or what their body looks like. Their health is their business, and it's their doctor's job to judge the state of their health, not random strangers or casual acquaintances. So I'm in favour of it from that perspective.

BUT I have seen a lot of people within this movement kidding themselves that they're healthy when they're not. I don't see how that's all that different to people glorifying extreme thinness/self starvation. They're both unhealthy extremes and people should strive to be healthy, both physically and mentally.

That said, when it comes to health there is a *massive* over-focus on body fat, at the expense of all other factors. e.g. someone can be a bit chubby yet healthy according to every other measure of health, and people focus only on the fact that they have, say, 30-35% body fat (for women) and look a bit chubby (same with men at 25-30%). And at the same time you get lean, sedentary, people who eat a very unbalanced diet who think they're healthy because their BMI is in the healthy range, yet they can barely walk up a flight of stairs, have low bone density, weak muscles and their blood lipid levels are not very good. And their body fat percentage may be as much as 30% but it doesn't notice because the low lean mass keeps their weight in the "healthy" BMI range..... which is far from healthy. People look at the two and focus on the chubby but fit person, and ignore the sedentary but thin looking person. That's what I take issue with. Health is not just about body fat, it's about a whole range of different things, and everyone should strive to be healthy. So maybe the fit but chubby person could do with lowering their body fat percentage a little..... but the skinny sedentary person needs to get in the gym and get active just as much as a fat sedentary person does, and they also need to focus on eating a balanced diet and improving their body fat percentage. And additionally, while it's possible to be very fit and a little bit obese (e.g. around 35% body fat).......... there's a limit to how fat someone can be without the fatness itself impacting their health in a severe way, both from the risk of long term health problems and also because fat makes it hard to be physically active. Fat and sedentary is a very bad situation from a health point of view.

ghostsnstuff

Yes, but as a medicine student, I know what I'm talking about. They're usually kidding themselves. It puts so much strain on their organs and is extremely damaging to their joints. Yet they claim to be healthy.

Velum_cado

I don't agree with bashing people of ANY body type. When you're fat, especially VERY fat, you face loads of discrimination. Those types of problems shouldn't be fixed by losing weight, they should be fixed by changing society so we're not seeing fat people as not being worthy of respect. True story: as a fat child, a teacher made fun of me in front of the whole class. Everyone laughed. That was not MY problem, no matter how old I was. So even if someone makes a concious choice to be fat, they still deserve the same respect as anyone else.

On the negative side, I do think the fat positivity movement can make it harder for people to have a realistic view of their own health, which is something everyone should have, regardless of size. I also think it can make people targets for potentially abusive, feeder/feedee relationships.

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snazzyjazzy21

I don't agree with bashing people of ANY body type. When you're fat, especially VERY fat, you face loads of discrimination. Those types of problems shouldn't be fixed by losing weight, they should be fixed by changing society so we're not seeing fat people as not being worthy of respect.

This.

Strokingdiction

It's one thing to not feel bad about yourself if your overweight while knowing that you can improve. it's another to throw rational thought to the wind and proclaim the ridiculous.

Sinisterly

I don't agree with the bashing, either. However.... Obesity can lead to many health risks, then again so can being under weight.
Maybe there needs to be a 'NormalSpo" :grumble: :grumble: :grumble:

helizi

I think it started as a backlash against the disdain/mockery/dislike/discrimination fat people routinely face and it evolved from there. In principle I agree with the message. But trying to justify it on health grounds has gone beyond self-acceptance and into outright denial.

daw0518

I think that there's a fine line. BODY positivity should be the goal, no matter what a person's size is.

I think that a person's health should be their and their doctors business and theirs alone. People assume that because someone is overweight they are unhealthy, and that's not always the case. Even at my heaviest, none of my doctors ever told me that I was unhealthy or in danger because of my weight. Aside from a short stint on high-cholesterol medication, my labs always came back 100% healthy. Of course I needed to lose weight for long-term health and fitness - but I was not inherently and immediately unhealthy just because I was overweight. I think that this is where a lot of my issue with any criticism comes from. Obesity is terribly unhealthy in the long run, and we all know that. But some people just don't care, even when they know all of the facts and statistics about it and how it will affect their life. It's not your business or mine to care what they choose to do with their own body.

That said, I think there are extremes. Fatspo & Thinspo on Tumblr are likely some of those extremes. I think they're especially dangerous because they're popular tags frequented by teens and young, naive people and they can spread a lot of unhealthy misinformation and propaganda.

ETA: Now I'm off to hunt on Tumblr for these blogs because I'm highly curious!

Musclememroy

Tumblr has literally the most extreme and insane people. Yes body positivity is good, however they want to deny the obvious medical problems that comes along with obesity. They also promote that no diet seems to work and that they all have some "medical" condition that makes them unable to lose.

People who have never went through being overweight often think things like "How did they let themselves get like that" and "how can they live that way". Its hard to understand how people cannot just get up an take action. Especially with all the resources.

delineationfiguration

Nobody should hate their own body. It is unhealthy in its own right. Nobody should feel or be treated as if they are of less value than other people; whether because of disability, weight, skin colour or sexual orientation.

Illness should not be glorified, though.

Dewymorning

I'm very much against discrimination against people based on size or what their body looks like. Their health is their business, and it's their doctor's job to judge the state of their health, not random strangers or casual acquaintances. So I'm in favour of it from that perspective.

BUT I have seen a lot of people within this movement kidding themselves that they're healthy when they're not. I don't see how that's all that different to people glorifying extreme thinness/self starvation. They're both unhealthy extremes and people should strive to be healthy, both physically and mentally.

That said, when it comes to health there is a *massive* over-focus on body fat, at the expense of all other factors. e.g. someone can be a bit chubby yet healthy according to every other measure of health, and people focus only on the fact that they have, say, 30-35% body fat (for women) and look a bit chubby (same with men at 25-30%). And at the same time you get lean, sedentary, people who eat a very unbalanced diet who think they're healthy because their BMI is in the healthy range, yet they can barely walk up a flight of stairs, have low bone density, weak muscles and their blood lipid levels are not very good. And their body fat percentage may be as much as 30% but it doesn't notice because the low lean mass keeps their weight in the "healthy" BMI range..... which is far from healthy. People look at the two and focus on the chubby but fit person, and ignore the sedentary but thin looking person. That's what I take issue with. Health is not just about body fat, it's about a whole range of different things, and everyone should strive to be healthy. So maybe the fit but chubby person could do with lowering their body fat percentage a little..... but the skinny sedentary person needs to get in the gym and get active just as much as a fat sedentary person does, and they also need to focus on eating a balanced diet and improving their body fat percentage. And additionally, while it's possible to be very fit and a little bit obese (e.g. around 35% body fat).......... there's a limit to how fat someone can be without the fatness itself impacting their health in a severe way, both from the risk of long term health problems and also because fat makes it hard to be physically active. Fat and sedentary is a very bad situation from a health point of view.

pandane

I don't agree with bashing people of ANY body type. When you're fat, especially VERY fat, you face loads of discrimination. Those types of problems shouldn't be fixed by losing weight, they should be fixed by changing society so we're not seeing fat people as not being worthy of respect. True story: as a fat child, a teacher made fun of me in front of the whole class. Everyone laughed. That was not MY problem, no matter how old I was. So even if someone makes a concious choice to be fat, they still deserve the same respect as anyone else.

On the negative side, I do think the fat positivity movement can make it harder for people to have a realistic view of their own health, which is something everyone should have, regardless of size. I also think it can make people targets for potentially abusive, feeder/feedee relationships.

Thank you. I completely agree! Personally, I don't give a **** what size one is, I care more about learning to eat nutritionally sound food and getting in physical activity every day. I think the body will figure out the rest.

hmaddpear

I'm very much against discrimination against people based on size or what their body looks like. Their health is their business, and it's their doctor's job to judge the state of their health, not random strangers or casual acquaintances. So I'm in favour of it from that perspective.

BUT I have seen a lot of people within this movement kidding themselves that they're healthy when they're not. I don't see how that's all that different to people glorifying extreme thinness/self starvation. They're both unhealthy extremes and people should strive to be healthy, both physically and mentally.

That said, when it comes to health there is a *massive* over-focus on body fat, at the expense of all other factors. e.g. someone can be a bit chubby yet healthy according to every other measure of health, and people focus only on the fact that they have, say, 30-35% body fat (for women) and look a bit chubby (same with men at 25-30%). And at the same time you get lean, sedentary, people who eat a very unbalanced diet who think they're healthy because their BMI is in the healthy range, yet they can barely walk up a flight of stairs, have low bone density, weak muscles and their blood lipid levels are not very good. And their body fat percentage may be as much as 30% but it doesn't notice because the low lean mass keeps their weight in the "healthy" BMI range..... which is far from healthy. People look at the two and focus on the chubby but fit person, and ignore the sedentary but thin looking person. That's what I take issue with. Health is not just about body fat, it's about a whole range of different things, and everyone should strive to be healthy. So maybe the fit but chubby person could do with lowering their body fat percentage a little..... but the skinny sedentary person needs to get in the gym and get active just as much as a fat sedentary person does, and they also need to focus on eating a balanced diet and improving their body fat percentage. And additionally, while it's possible to be very fit and a little bit obese (e.g. around 35% body fat).......... there's a limit to how fat someone can be without the fatness itself impacting their health in a severe way, both from the risk of long term health problems and also because fat makes it hard to be physically active. Fat and sedentary is a very bad situation from a health point of view.

+1

Thank you for taking the time to write this - it saves me from taking an hour to write something less than half as articulate!

EvgeniZyntx

Yes, but as a medicine student, I know what I'm talking about. They're usually kidding themselves. It puts so much strain on their organs and is extremely damaging to their joints. Yet they claim to be healthy.

This arrogance will make you a bad doctor. You are 20, so likely 2nd or 3rd year of college or, if not in the US you still have 3-6 year to be a doctor. Most good doctors know that at best they have an educated guess and that their "knowledge" base can and will be overturned time and time again.

Being slightly overweight is often a long term statistical indicator of better health than being slightly underweight. There are now many epidemiological studies that demonstrate this; it also highlights that weight isn't the only health factor.

People that have joint issues know it, they aren't usually kidding themselves, they are quite aware of the issue. Perhaps a few people are in denial but my professional experience (as a hip prosthetic designer/biomaterials researcher for 6 years in which I saw hundreds of patients) is that the overweight person with joint pain is well aware of the weight contribution to the issue. If they could wave a magic wand and magically reduce their weight they would. It's a pretty easily litmus test question.

For many people who are overweight, having a positive attitude about themselves can be an essential step to losing weight. Feel good and you might have the energy to change while negativity about the body, depression may lead some down the path of fatalism and giving up. In this sense accepting yourself, being happy may be factors of success in weight loss.

SuperSexyDork

Yes, but as a medicine student, I know what I'm talking about. They're usually kidding themselves. It puts so much strain on their organs and is extremely damaging to their joints. Yet they claim to be healthy.

This arrogance will make you a bad doctor. You are 20, so likely 2nd or 3rd year of college or, if not in the US you still have 3-6 year to be a doctor. Most good doctors know that at best they have an educated guess and that their "knowledge" base can and will be overturned time and time again.

Being slightly overweight is often a long term statistical indicator of better health than being slightly underweight. There are now many epidemiological studies that demonstrate this; it also highlights that weight isn't the only health factor.

People that have joint issues know it, they aren't usually kidding themselves, they are quite aware of the issue. Perhaps a few people are in denial but my professional experience (as a hip prosthetic designer/biomaterials researcher for 6 years in which I saw hundreds of patients) is that the overweight person with joint pain is well aware of the weight contribution to the issue. If they could wave a magic wand and magically reduce their weight they would. It's a pretty easily litmus test question.

For many people who are overweight, having a positive attitude about themselves can be an essential step to losing weight. Feel good and you might have the energy to change while negativity about the body, depression may lead some down the path of fatalism and giving up. In this sense accepting yourself, being happy may be factors of success in weight loss.

Thank you for pointing out what I was going to mention about the arrogance. As a student, it is your job to learn, not assume that you already know.

SergeantNarwhal

I think we need to stop judging fat versus thin and look more at healthy versus unhealthy. You can be thin and be pretty unhealthy, you can have a little extra and be very healthy, and vice versa. Will a 300lb overweight person be without malady? Nope, but neither will and 87lb adult. Personally I have tried to make a huge effort to hold my judgment about peoples' bodies until I know how they choose to care for them. Hopefully one day, Fat/Thin Positivity can just become wellness positivity. Creating more ingroups/outgroups in our society doesn't get us anywhere.

alcrisp93

I don't believe in judging anyone based on body type OR health status. It's ridiculous. Someone else's health is none of my business if I'm not their doctor. (Spoiler alert: never going to be. I'm a communications major). Being a doctor in general doesn't make it right either, not unless they've invited your scrutiny and opinion. Did they come to you for health advice? Yes? Go for it. No? Keep walking.

There's no way that any of us can know a strangers health just by looking at them, not really. Pretending that we can see how healthy another person is just by the amount of fat on them is ridiculous and incorrect. For example:

I was overweight most of my life, but I was always healthy. Doctors never gave me anything but a clean bill of health. That never stopped my family and the people around me from weight-shaming me into what would eventually become a totally out of control eating disorder. Why? They knew my doctors weren't concerned (outside of "Are you active?" The answer to which was always, "Yes".) so why were they? The answer: it's more to do with fat and myths about fat than real health concern.

When I dropped 70lbs in a frighteningly short amount of time through a combination of fasting, purging, and over exercising, my family praised me constantly for how "beautiful" and "healthy" I was becoming. The appearance of my thinner body represented this to them. I was healthier fat.

Now, of course, I'm in treatment and in recovery, and looking to be the healthiest version of me that I can be. With my PCOS, the healthiest version might always be a little heavy. That's just fine. I'm entitled to love myself despite the fact that I may never be perfectly thin. I'm allowed to love myself WITH my fat, rather than "in spite" of it. That will never be anyone's business but my own.

And anyway, being fat will never make anyone any less of a person. Being unhealthy (and these things should always be considered separately) will never make anyone any less of a person. What does make you more/less better/worse is how you treat people.

eric_sg61

Yes, but as a medicine student, I know what I'm talking about. They're usually kidding themselves. It puts so much strain on their organs and is extremely damaging to their joints. Yet they claim to be healthy.

In my expereince students really don't know...............hence they are students

ktsmom430

People should be accepted for themselves. It would be a much better world if this were the case.

Taking time to accept a person for their inner qualities is really most important to me, not the packaging they come in.

It is not for me to judge appearance of another person. I do know that for me, losing weight has made me a lot less defensive of my own appearance, knowing that excess weight is not an immediate issue to some people.

Right or wrong, that is the society we live in, and there will always be some issue for someone to find fault with. Human nature.

paperfiish

I don't believe in judging anyone based on body type OR health status. It's ridiculous. Someone else's health is none of my business if I'm not their doctor. (Spoiler alert: never going to be. I'm a communications major). Being a doctor in general doesn't make it right either, not unless they've invited your scrutiny and opinion. Did they come to you for health advice? Yes? Go for it. No? Keep walking.

There's no way that any of us can know a strangers health just by looking at them, not really. Pretending that we can see how healthy another person is just by the amount of fat on them is ridiculous and incorrect. For example:

I was overweight most of my life, but I was always healthy. Doctors never gave me anything but a clean bill of health. That never stopped my family and the people around me from weight-shaming me into what would eventually become a totally out of control eating disorder. Why? They knew my doctors weren't concerned (outside of "Are you active?" The answer to which was always, "Yes".) so why were they? The answer: it's more to do with fat and myths about fat than real health concern.

When I dropped 70lbs in a frighteningly short amount of time through a combination of fasting, purging, and over exercising, my family praised me constantly for how "beautiful" and "healthy" I was becoming. The appearance of my thinner body represented this to them. I was healthier fat.

Now, of course, I'm in treatment and in recovery, and looking to be the healthiest version of me that I can be. With my PCOS, the healthiest version might always be a little heavy. That's just fine. I'm entitled to love myself despite the fact that I may never be perfectly thin. I'm allowed to love myself WITH my fat, rather than "in spite" of it. That will never be anyone's business but my own.

And anyway, being fat will never make anyone any less of a person. Being unhealthy (and these things should always be considered separately) will never make anyone any less of a person. What does make you more/less better/worse is how you treat people.

I'm really glad you're my friend on here you took the words right out of my mouth.

gramarye

I don't agree with bashing people of ANY body type. When you're fat, especially VERY fat, you face loads of discrimination. Those types of problems shouldn't be fixed by losing weight, they should be fixed by changing society so we're not seeing fat people as not being worthy of respect.

This.

Double-this.

gramarye

I'm entitled to love myself despite the fact that I may never be perfectly thin. I'm allowed to love myself WITH my fat, rather than "in spite" of it. That will never be anyone's business but my own.

And anyway, being fat will never make anyone any less of a person. Being unhealthy (and these things should always be considered separately) will never make anyone any less of a person. What does make you more/less better/worse is how you treat people.

I'm really sorry to hear about how your family behaved; my family is very much the same, especially my father. Good luck in your future health!

(And your whole response was perfect; but someone has just quoted the whole thing above me, so.)

alcrisp93

I don't believe in judging anyone based on body type OR health status. It's ridiculous. Someone else's health is none of my business if I'm not their doctor. (Spoiler alert: never going to be. I'm a communications major). Being a doctor in general doesn't make it right either, not unless they've invited your scrutiny and opinion. Did they come to you for health advice? Yes? Go for it. No? Keep walking.

There's no way that any of us can know a strangers health just by looking at them, not really. Pretending that we can see how healthy another person is just by the amount of fat on them is ridiculous and incorrect. For example:

I was overweight most of my life, but I was always healthy. Doctors never gave me anything but a clean bill of health. That never stopped my family and the people around me from weight-shaming me into what would eventually become a totally out of control eating disorder. Why? They knew my doctors weren't concerned (outside of "Are you active?" The answer to which was always, "Yes".) so why were they? The answer: it's more to do with fat and myths about fat than real health concern.

When I dropped 70lbs in a frighteningly short amount of time through a combination of fasting, purging, and over exercising, my family praised me constantly for how "beautiful" and "healthy" I was becoming. The appearance of my thinner body represented this to them. I was healthier fat.

Now, of course, I'm in treatment and in recovery, and looking to be the healthiest version of me that I can be. With my PCOS, the healthiest version might always be a little heavy. That's just fine. I'm entitled to love myself despite the fact that I may never be perfectly thin. I'm allowed to love myself WITH my fat, rather than "in spite" of it. That will never be anyone's business but my own.

And anyway, being fat will never make anyone any less of a person. Being unhealthy (and these things should always be considered separately) will never make anyone any less of a person. What does make you more/less better/worse is how you treat people.

I'm really glad you're my friend on here you took the words right out of my mouth.

:flowerforyou:

alcrisp93

I'm entitled to love myself despite the fact that I may never be perfectly thin. I'm allowed to love myself WITH my fat, rather than "in spite" of it. That will never be anyone's business but my own.

And anyway, being fat will never make anyone any less of a person. Being unhealthy (and these things should always be considered separately) will never make anyone any less of a person. What does make you more/less better/worse is how you treat people.

I'm really sorry to hear about how your family behaved; my family is very much the same, especially my father. Good luck in your future health!

(And your whole response was perfect; but someone has just quoted the whole thing above me, so.)

It's always the fathers, isn't it? :P Best wishes to you, too!