Dieting = Craving BAD foods

jonnythan

Lol. If I was the sensitive type I would do what most others do and follow the herd.

What herd? The "herd" in the fitness and nutrition industry is very strongly anti-sugar, anti-processed food.

Not on MFP. Pro sugar I think you will find.

You should do a survey on a separate thread (serious suggestion)

Sugar food or bad - I bet the result will strongly be on the side of good on the MFP forum.

The idea that anti-sugar, anti-processed food adherents or proponents are vastly outnumbered on MFP is ridiculously laughable. If anything it's the other way around.

There is of course a vocal, active IIFYM subset on MFP. It's not just coincidence that they represent a large portion of the members who have found long-term success.

Do you have any numbers to back that up? I'd be very interested to see some data on what has worked and not worked for folks on IIFYM, even though I understand the inherent problems with self-reporting.

No numbers, no. If someone compiled numbers, however, I'm fairly confident that you'd see a distinct trend. I've found similar trends in real life as well as on MFP.

Wait. So you've never seen any data on that but just declared it to be so? This is just based on your personal observation?

Yes, it is based on my personal observation that a large portion of MFP members who have found long-term success follow an IIFYM style.

I have observed this as well.

There is an obvious reason for this! MFP is inherently a calorie counting website which advocates and lends itself to IIFYM.

It would only be of concern if those members were not the majority.

But I'm not sure MFP is reflective of the dieting society as a whole!?

I've personally observed the same thing in real life. Of all the people I know who have lost weight and kept it off long-term, none of them have adopted some fad diet or demonized any particular foods or nutrients.

Every single one of them has adopted some variation of "eat less and move more." None of them have cut out sugar, decided fructose was the devil, went paleo or raw, or whatever. In contrast, the handful of people I know who do use fad diets never seem to find lasting success.

My observations are limited, to be sure. But these patterns are obvious and distinct.

lindsey1979

How many people do you really think you've personally encountered here on MFP? And why do you think that is a representational sample of all MFP users?

I just can't believe anyone would make such a statement, especially someone that purports to be a proponent of common sense and rational thought.

I'm pretty confident in saying that I've encountered almost all of the people who have been posting here longer than a month (if you exclude the people who hangout exclusively in the chit-chat threads).

Being a proponent of common sense and rational thought doesn't magically preclude someone from making observations about a population.

Really not sure where this is coming from, unless you have some anti-IIFYM agenda or something.

Nah, I'm not against it. I just think that's a wild statement, rife with all sorts of problems.

lindsey1979

Lol. If I was the sensitive type I would do what most others do and follow the herd.

What herd? The "herd" in the fitness and nutrition industry is very strongly anti-sugar, anti-processed food.

Not on MFP. Pro sugar I think you will find.

You should do a survey on a separate thread (serious suggestion)

Sugar food or bad - I bet the result will strongly be on the side of good on the MFP forum.

The idea that anti-sugar, anti-processed food adherents or proponents are vastly outnumbered on MFP is ridiculously laughable. If anything it's the other way around.

There is of course a vocal, active IIFYM subset on MFP. It's not just coincidence that they represent a large portion of the members who have found long-term success.

Do you have any numbers to back that up? I'd be very interested to see some data on what has worked and not worked for folks on IIFYM, even though I understand the inherent problems with self-reporting.

No numbers, no. If someone compiled numbers, however, I'm fairly confident that you'd see a distinct trend. I've found similar trends in real life as well as on MFP.

Wait. So you've never seen any data on that but just declared it to be so? This is just based on your personal observation?

Yes, it is based on my personal observation that a large portion of MFP members who have found long-term success follow an IIFYM style.

I have observed this as well.

There is an obvious reason for this! MFP is inherently a calorie counting website which advocates and lends itself to IIFYM.

It would only be of concern if those members were not the majority.

But I'm not sure MFP is reflective of the dieting society as a whole!?

I've personally observed the same thing in real life. Of all the people I know who have lost weight and kept it off long-term, none of them have adopted some fad diet or demonized any particular foods or nutrients.

Every single one of them has adopted some variation of "eat less and move more." None of them have cut out sugar, decided fructose was the devil, went paleo or raw, or whatever. In contrast, the handful of people I know who do use fad diets never seem to find lasting success.

My observations are limited, to be sure. But these patterns are obvious and distinct.

I guess we just have very different experiences. And that's okay.

jonnythan

How many people do you really think you've personally encountered here on MFP? And why do you think that is a representational sample of all MFP users?

I just can't believe anyone would make such a statement, especially someone that purports to be a proponent of common sense and rational thought.

I'm pretty confident in saying that I've encountered almost all of the people who have been posting here longer than a month (if you exclude the people who hangout exclusively in the chit-chat threads).

Being a proponent of common sense and rational thought doesn't magically preclude someone from making observations about a population.

Really not sure where this is coming from, unless you have some anti-IIFYM agenda or something.

Nah, I'm not against it. I just think that's a wild statement, rife with all sorts of problems.

The number of people on the MFP forums who have demonstrated long-term, lasting success isn't really that large. And it's an indisputable fact that there are a lot of people on the MFP forums who have demonstrated long-term, lasting success with an IIFYM style diet.

So the original statement you had issue with:
"There is of course a vocal, active IIFYM subset on MFP. It's not just coincidence that they represent a large portion of the members who have found long-term success."
is really indisputable.

jonnythan

I guess we just have very different experiences. And that's okay.

Indeed. And I need to bring something up, and I want you to understand this isn't a criticism or attack... but you've been here 5 years, have a thousand posts, and have lost 12 of your target 27 pounds. I would not include you in the portion of MFP that has demonstrated significant long-term success.

likitisplit

IIFYM certainly does work. I've seen many people on here get the weight off and keep it off that way. I think it depends on how you are wired. Personally, one Twizzer leads to the whole bag of Twizzlers...I know, I know...I have the physical ability to put the bag down anytime. However if I'm being realistic with myself that's just not going to happen. I had to get my cravings under control and move forward from there on a whole foods diet.
Thanks to everyone for offering up some great books, I will definitely be checking them out

Moderation can mean different things at different times. Sometimes it means buying the individual Twizzler. Sometimes it means not eating them until you can get some of the other stuff together.

lindsey1979

How many people do you really think you've personally encountered here on MFP? And why do you think that is a representational sample of all MFP users?

I just can't believe anyone would make such a statement, especially someone that purports to be a proponent of common sense and rational thought.

I'm pretty confident in saying that I've encountered almost all of the people who have been posting here longer than a month (if you exclude the people who hangout exclusively in the chit-chat threads).

Being a proponent of common sense and rational thought doesn't magically preclude someone from making observations about a population.

Really not sure where this is coming from, unless you have some anti-IIFYM agenda or something.

Nah, I'm not against it. I just think that's a wild statement, rife with all sorts of problems.

The number of people on the MFP forums who have demonstrated long-term, lasting success isn't really that large. And it's an indisputable fact that there are a lot of people on the MFP forums who have demonstrated long-term, lasting success with an IIFYM style diet.

So the original statement you had issue with:
"There is of course a vocal, active IIFYM subset on MFP. It's not just coincidence that they represent a large portion of the members who have found long-term success."
is really indisputable.

Considering that this is just based upon your personal observations, I think it is quite disputable. The fact that you don't think so demonstrates your lack of essential critical thinking skills -- to think that a vocal minority of users is representative of the total. I really hope you're not in any scientific-related field. After all, then we'd never need ANY studies -- we'd just ask the scientists what they think. So much simpler...

lindsey1979

I guess we just have very different experiences. And that's okay.

Indeed. And I need to bring something up, and I want you to understand this isn't a criticism or attack... but you've been here 5 years, have a thousand posts, and have lost 12 of your target 27 pounds. I would not include you in the portion of MFP that has demonstrated significant long-term success.

Did you ever think to ask why that was? Did it ever occur to you that I could have signed up a long time ago, but never really participated? And only recently have I re-engaged?

See, folks need to look below the surface and investigate or they can end up with completely erroneous conclusions because they made faulty assumptions.

jonnythan

I guess we just have very different experiences. And that's okay.

Indeed. And I need to bring something up, and I want you to understand this isn't a criticism or attack... but you've been here 5 years, have a thousand posts, and have lost 12 of your target 27 pounds. I would not include you in the portion of MFP that has demonstrated significant long-term success.

Did you ever think to ask why that was? Did it ever occur to you that I could have signed up a long time ago, but never really participated? And only recently have I re-engaged?

See, folks need to look below the surface and investigate or they can end up with completely erroneous conclusions because they made faulty assumptions.

That's fine. It makes no difference to me why you're in the position you're in. I've made no assumptions or determinations about you or your process.

haylslade

Have you tried eating the foods you love/crave/want, but just in smaller portion sizes? Most of the time this works for me. There are a couple of things that I avoid all together, but there aren't many.

What helped me when I first started eating in moderation was buying items in a single serve size, instead of buying in bulk and portioning myself. Example, I eat ice cream on a semi-regular basis, but I buy the single serving of my Haagen Dazs chocolate peanut butter ice cream instead of the pint because it controls the portion size for me.

Also, pre-logging my food for the day helped me figure out how I could fit in the foods I truly wanted, rather than only choosing "healthier" foods. The way I look at it, is that all foods are fine, as long as you pay attention to portion sizes. If I want ice cream, I'm going to budget those calories in my day somewhere! If I want pizza, and I know I'm going to want 3 slices, I make the choice to cut back my cals during other meals and/or snacks.

^^This.

I eat what I want in moderation, but sometimes that 300 calorie microscopic slice of pizza doesn't seem worth it TBH.

I personally found just cutting down portion sizes didn't work, whilst I still craved certain foods, for me it took more will power to stop eating something when I didn't feel I had had enough than totally abstaining from something.

My solution, which worked for me was two fold. First I cut the junk food for 30 days until I had the cravings under control - I did this along side changing my diet from mainly protein and carbs to a low carb high fat diet (it really suppressed my appetite and got my cravings under control).

Second I then allowed myself to reintroduce the foods I liked and if I wanted to I could eat them.

The main thing that worked for me though was getting a better under standing of the junk food I was eating and the nutritional benefit / per calories it was costing.

So now if I want to have a pizza (meat feast of course) I will, but I do it with the knowledge of the calorie/nutrient cost compared to other food.

Hope you find what works for you.

^ this!

lindsey1979

I guess we just have very different experiences. And that's okay.

Indeed. And I need to bring something up, and I want you to understand this isn't a criticism or attack... but you've been here 5 years, have a thousand posts, and have lost 12 of your target 27 pounds. I would not include you in the portion of MFP that has demonstrated significant long-term success.

Did you ever think to ask why that was? Did it ever occur to you that I could have signed up a long time ago, but never really participated? And only recently have I re-engaged?

See, folks need to look below the surface and investigate or they can end up with completely erroneous conclusions because they made faulty assumptions.

That's fine. It makes no difference to me why you're in the position you're in. I've made no assumptions or determinations about you or your process.

Really? You said "but you've been here 5 years, have a thousand posts, and have lost 12 of your target 27 pounds."

That looks like some pretty big assumptions to me. It assumes that I've been accurately reporting, that I've been active for 5 years, that it's an accurate reflection of my goals for the past 5 years. It also is a determination about my progress/results.

Hmmm....

jonnythan

I guess we just have very different experiences. And that's okay.

Indeed. And I need to bring something up, and I want you to understand this isn't a criticism or attack... but you've been here 5 years, have a thousand posts, and have lost 12 of your target 27 pounds. I would not include you in the portion of MFP that has demonstrated significant long-term success.

Did you ever think to ask why that was? Did it ever occur to you that I could have signed up a long time ago, but never really participated? And only recently have I re-engaged?

See, folks need to look below the surface and investigate or they can end up with completely erroneous conclusions because they made faulty assumptions.

That's fine. It makes no difference to me why you're in the position you're in. I've made no assumptions or determinations about you or your process.

Really? You said "but you've been here 5 years, have a thousand posts, and have lost 12 of your target 27 pounds."

That looks like some pretty big assumptions to me. It assumes that I've been accurately reporting, that I've been active for 5 years, that it's an accurate reflection of my goals for the past 5 years. It also is a determination about my progress/results.

Hmmm....

Right, and for that reason I don't consider you one of the people I'm talking about when I speak of the subset of MFP that have demonstrated long-term success.

How or why you have failed to demonstrate long-term success is out of the scope of what I'm talking about. It doesn't matter to me. If you want to discuss it, we can talk about it.

But I was talking about the people who have demonstrated long-term success on MFP. I have personally noticed certain trends among those people. You may have noticed different trends, and that's fine.

Strokingdiction

I guess we just have very different experiences. And that's okay.

Indeed. And I need to bring something up, and I want you to understand this isn't a criticism or attack... but you've been here 5 years, have a thousand posts, and have lost 12 of your target 27 pounds. I would not include you in the portion of MFP that has demonstrated significant long-term success.

Did you ever think to ask why that was? Did it ever occur to you that I could have signed up a long time ago, but never really participated? And only recently have I re-engaged?

See, folks need to look below the surface and investigate or they can end up with completely erroneous conclusions because they made faulty assumptions.

That's fine. It makes no difference to me why you're in the position you're in. I've made no assumptions or determinations about you or your process.

Really? You said "but you've been here 5 years, have a thousand posts, and have lost 12 of your target 27 pounds."

That looks like some pretty big assumptions to me. It assumes that I've been accurately reporting, that I've been active for 5 years, that it's an accurate reflection of my goals for the past 5 years. It also is a determination about my progress/results.

Hmmm....

The question becomes, why haven't you been accurately reporting? Is it because it's unsustainable to diet the way you've been recommending? Don't you think it's better to take the advice from someone who has made it sustainable, who has reached and maintained goals for the long term? Why would you preach a method if the method you're advocating has yet to have the desired results for you?

jonnythan

I guess we just have very different experiences. And that's okay.

Indeed. And I need to bring something up, and I want you to understand this isn't a criticism or attack... but you've been here 5 years, have a thousand posts, and have lost 12 of your target 27 pounds. I would not include you in the portion of MFP that has demonstrated significant long-term success.

Did you ever think to ask why that was? Did it ever occur to you that I could have signed up a long time ago, but never really participated? And only recently have I re-engaged?

See, folks need to look below the surface and investigate or they can end up with completely erroneous conclusions because they made faulty assumptions.

That's fine. It makes no difference to me why you're in the position you're in. I've made no assumptions or determinations about you or your process.

Really? You said "but you've been here 5 years, have a thousand posts, and have lost 12 of your target 27 pounds."

That looks like some pretty big assumptions to me. It assumes that I've been accurately reporting, that I've been active for 5 years, that it's an accurate reflection of my goals for the past 5 years. It also is a determination about my progress/results.

Hmmm....

The question becomes, why haven't you been accurately reporting? Is it because it's unsustainable to diet the way you've been recommending? Don't you think it's better to take the advice from someone who has made it sustainable, who has reached and maintained goals for the long term? Why would you preach a method if the method you're advocating has yet to have the desired results for you?

Yes, those are valid questions if we want to examine why lindsey has not yet found long-term success. But, to be clear, I'm talking about trends among people who HAVE found long-term success. I'm not interested in examining the reasons lindsey has not, unless lindsey herself is and asks for opinions or advice. In that case I would be happy to examine the issue and help her to the best of my ability.

lindsey1979

I guess we just have very different experiences. And that's okay.

Indeed. And I need to bring something up, and I want you to understand this isn't a criticism or attack... but you've been here 5 years, have a thousand posts, and have lost 12 of your target 27 pounds. I would not include you in the portion of MFP that has demonstrated significant long-term success.

Did you ever think to ask why that was? Did it ever occur to you that I could have signed up a long time ago, but never really participated? And only recently have I re-engaged?

See, folks need to look below the surface and investigate or they can end up with completely erroneous conclusions because they made faulty assumptions.

That's fine. It makes no difference to me why you're in the position you're in. I've made no assumptions or determinations about you or your process.

Really? You said "but you've been here 5 years, have a thousand posts, and have lost 12 of your target 27 pounds."

That looks like some pretty big assumptions to me. It assumes that I've been accurately reporting, that I've been active for 5 years, that it's an accurate reflection of my goals for the past 5 years. It also is a determination about my progress/results.

Hmmm....

Right, and for that reason I don't consider you one of the people I'm talking about when I speak of the subset of MFP that have demonstrated long-term success.

How or why you have failed to demonstrate long-term success is out of the scope of what I'm talking about. It doesn't matter to me. If you want to discuss it, we can talk about it.

But I was talking about the people who have demonstrated long-term success on MFP. I have personally noticed certain trends among those people. You may have noticed different trends, and that's fine.

I have noticed different trends, which is why I'd never presume that my experience was representative of ALL MFP users without actually investigating it in some way. To me just seems like an incredible amount of hubris.

jonnythan

I have noticed different trends, which is why I'd never presume that my experience was representative of ALL MFP users without actually investigating it in some way. To me just seems like an incredible amount of hubris.

What trends have you noticed? I'm genuinely curious.

And BTW, I've been very very clear that I'm not speaking of "ALL MFP users." I'm speaking very specifically about a specific subset of MFP users: those who have demonstrated consistent long-term success.

Ashaleet

If you're craving a meat and cheese pizza, don't make yourself a spinach and feta one.
That's lame.
Either make a healthy meat and cheese pizza on your whole wheat crust, or buy a lean cuisine personal sized pizza. I think they are around 350 cals.

lindsey1979

I guess we just have very different experiences. And that's okay.

Indeed. And I need to bring something up, and I want you to understand this isn't a criticism or attack... but you've been here 5 years, have a thousand posts, and have lost 12 of your target 27 pounds. I would not include you in the portion of MFP that has demonstrated significant long-term success.

Did you ever think to ask why that was? Did it ever occur to you that I could have signed up a long time ago, but never really participated? And only recently have I re-engaged?

See, folks need to look below the surface and investigate or they can end up with completely erroneous conclusions because they made faulty assumptions.

That's fine. It makes no difference to me why you're in the position you're in. I've made no assumptions or determinations about you or your process.

Really? You said "but you've been here 5 years, have a thousand posts, and have lost 12 of your target 27 pounds."

That looks like some pretty big assumptions to me. It assumes that I've been accurately reporting, that I've been active for 5 years, that it's an accurate reflection of my goals for the past 5 years. It also is a determination about my progress/results.

Hmmm....

The question becomes, why haven't you been accurately reporting? Is it because it's unsustainable to diet the way you've been recommending? Don't you think it's better to take the advice from someone who has made it sustainable, who has reached and maintained goals for the long term? Why would you preach a method if the method you're advocating has yet to have the desired results for you?

To be honest, I'm not sure why I joined 5 years ago. I literally didn't remember doing it until I signed up again and they told me that I already had an account. And I specifically signed up to comment on the boards when I was doing a search for something thyroid related (I think).

Over the years, I've gained some very valuable information (at least to me), though the final pieces of my personal puzzle only came together recently -- and I've shared that information when it's relevant or when others have specifically asked me, whether on the forum or in PM.

As for advice -- I think they're like a$$sholes -- everyone has one. It doesn't mean that it's necessarily good advice for any particular individual. Sometimes it is, sometimes it's not. I evaluate the particular advice not the person giving it as much because broken clocks are right twice a day too.

Also, for clarification, I'm preaching a method that is working for me and shared my experience for methods that did not in the past -- but eventually led me to the path that I'm currently on. Will I still be here in 4-6 months when I've hopefully met my goals? Maybe. I don't know. Hard to say. Perhaps I'll make new goals or perhaps I won't have the time like I have right now.

daviddjhonna

Does anyone else have the problem that when you are trying your best to eat healthier, make better choices, and move more that it's like your body/mind is fighting you?

I feel like I have NO control over what my body craves and wants. I get tired of telling myself that I can't have pizza, hamburgers, french fries, etc and I give in. My husband says it's because I don't have the willpower or the "want to", but I feel defeated EVERYTIME I make a lifestyle change and I don't stick with it.

I've tried the "food swaps" and while some of them are reasonable and delicious, most of them leave me wanting the real thing. Example: I made Spinach and Feta pizza on whole wheat crust instead of Three Meat pizza. While the taste was delicious, I still wanted meat.. and lots of it!

Let yourself have the weekends. I do. Im making progress despite my splurges on the weekend. I crave fried foods like its nobodys business. But Letting myself have saturday and sunday to eat what I want really helps. And besides, just because you mess up one day doesnt mean you dont have tomorrow. Its an evolution process. Slow and steady wins the race. Remember that!

lindsey1979

I have noticed different trends, which is why I'd never presume that my experience was representative of ALL MFP users without actually investigating it in some way. To me just seems like an incredible amount of hubris.

What trends have you noticed? I'm genuinely curious.

And BTW, I've been very very clear that I'm not speaking of "ALL MFP users." I'm speaking very specifically about a specific subset of MFP users: those who have demonstrated consistent long-term success.

Either way, I wouldn't suspect to know about ALL the MFP users that have demonstrated consistent long-term success.

As for my trends, I tend to be more friends with people that are eating LCHF, Paleo/Primal or have some medical issues -- thyroid and insulin resistance in particular. So, what they're doing is a mixture of a lot of different approaches based upon their personal preferences and issues. Most are somewhere in the midst of their journey, though some are long time veterans just maintaining.