Why do people seem to bash "healthy"eating?

darrensurrey

why does everyone say it is OK to eat all the processed foods that are in the American diet and has lead us, as a nation, to be the fattest industrialized nation on earth?

Simply because it hasn't lead you to be the fattest country. Eating too much of it has.

If it's about losing weight (and let's face it, MFP isn't really about fitness as you don't need to count calories to improve your VO2 Max), then there's no reason to cut out food you're used to and enjoy. This is why so many people fail to lose weight permanently before coming to MFP - they have an on/off mentality. Moderation is the way forward. For some, eating a little can result in bingeing of course but there are reasons behind this. Most of the people on my FL seem to manage fine by not cutting out the nice stuff and just being a little less generous in their helpings by using MFP's tools.

BekaBooluvsu

Weight loss eating plans need to be sustainable long term - I think making drastic changes, like forcing oneself to set broccoli and apples, if one hates them, is not sustainable.
Eating 'junk food' but in smaller amounts, is more sustainable for many people.

This too! I grew up on junk. I've made huge modifications but can't completely eliminate it or my progress will back track. I've tried the extreme and it doesn't work for me, slowly modifying the bad with healthier is what works for me.

MelodyandBarbells

True, and good points. But I was shocked(maybe I shouldn't have been) over how much money, time, and research food companies put into making processed foods that not only taste good, but actually get people to eat more of it. And, yes, over consumption is the culprit, but how many people can say that they got fat on over-consuming broccoli or apples? It is the "junk" food that is being over-consumed because it is DESIGNED to be over-consumed.

Perhaps not many can say they got fat over broccoli and apples. But ever stop to think that's the same reason a great many of us wouldn't lose weight long term being restricted to such foods? The reality is that if your goal is weight loss, cutting out food items altogether and going on a restrictive diet is likely unsustainable. Why wouldn't we tell that to people who come here and ask for help?

VoodooSyxx

I'm nowhere near a perfectly "clean" eater, but I try my best to eat a lot healthier than I used to. The junk food warrior's best excuse is "not sustainable". They'll trot that one out repeatedly to justify their daily chocolate/cake/cookies/ice cream, whatever. Believe it or not, none of that crap was part of my diet to begin with, even when I was putting on the weight. So why would I care to eat it now just to get this mythical "sustainable" diet?

SpencersHeart

I find it interesting that the "diet" industries of "Jenny Craig", "Weight Watchers", "NutriSystem" have included in their "diet" foods: pizza, brownies, lasagna, cookies, etc

They are mostly today, advocating (my opinion) portion control.

When my sister was with Weight Watchers, many, many, years ago, all I ever saw her eat was salad, carrot sticks, celery sticks and yes, she lost a ton of weight, of which she gained back plus more when she couldn't eat like that as a life style change.

Life style change is the key word, not diet, or healthy food, nor unhealthy food...life style change.

I wish my sister was still alive to know that she could have had a cheeseburger at our family cook outs and still lose her weight.

eric_sg61

Losing a bunch of weight is going to do a lot more for your health than your food choices.

Sinisterly

People bash "bad eating" and "healthy eating" alike.
Both get bashed.
People will always try to push what worked for them on others.

It will never stop. Ever.

-exits thread-

FlaxMilk

What I will bash every day of the week are unhealthy mental attitudes touted as lifestyles. I really wish that the ideas of "clean" and "dirty" eating could be stricken from the dietary lexicon. I can't imagine a less healthy mindset than shaming oneself or others with the term "dirty" eating or the inherent whiff of moral superiority that comes with the term "clean" eating. There are way too many people who push lifestyles that border on orthorexia nervosa on other people, lifestyles in which personal value are attached to every bite that goes into one's mouth--sorry "ethical" vegans, this means you. Food is fuel. It is not a moral code. Putting that much value on food rarely ends up in a good place. If it's a personal choice, that's fine, but no one should attempt to force eating based on shame or perceived moral superiority on other people.

So yes, healthy eating has its place, but in my mind "healthy" means healthy in both mind and body.

I'm not sure why clean is such a threatening word to people when it's used by others to describe their own diets or how they try to make their choices. (I get it if someone is demeaning someone else's diet.) How clean I try to keep my diet is as relevant to my feelings about you and your diet as how clean I keep my house is.

Wait- If I can carry the clean argument over to housekeeping, life could get a lot easier. There's no one definition of a clean house, so it's meaningless to try to keep one. I can't make a lifestyle change, where I'll never ever have a messy house again, so why try. If I say I am trying to keep my house clean, others might get offended. This could work for me, I have a messy house and I hate to clean.

I found the post a little ambiguous, so I'm not sure if this was the intent, but both clean eaters and ethical vegans can be very healthy in body and mind. Food can reflect morality for a lot of different people. All of the major religions I think of off the top of my head have some form of food related restriction, teaching, or code attached. There are far fewer clean eaters and vegans trying to push their views than there are religious related food customs. People can talk about and even celebrate what they do with food without it being about you and what you do. Religious based food rules are immersed in popular culture to the point that it's not even noticeable; I don't eat meat whether it's Friday or not, so why get offended if a bar is advertising a fish laden "Lent" menu on Friday nights? It has nothing to do with me.

MelodyandBarbells

I don't believe I ever used the word "junk". Nor did I ever say that people should not ever, never eat processed foods. And I'm glad you feel healthy eating what you are eating. But if someone else does not wish to eat that way, for whatever reason, and is requesting help to meet that wish, why talk them out of it? Why say, go ahead and eat your (chocolate, donut, Big Mac, whatever) because it is fine, there are no bad foods, everything in moderation. Why doesn't anyone support them in their efforts rather than tear their efforts down? I can't recall (not saying it hasn't happened, just that I can't remember it happening) someone replying, "good for you to do what you think is what you need. Good luck". It is always, "you're a fool, you can eat whatever you want as long as you don't over-do".

My opinion, and I have a right to my opinion, is that there ARE foods that are not as healthy for you (or downright unhealthy) as others. I've never said for others not to eat them, that is their decision. But I'll try to promote and encourage others to eat as best they can. And if they want to try to stop the addictive processed foods, I will try to encourage that rather than telling them that they are wrong. That's all I'm saying.

I think I know what you mean. So a 250lb lady is having trouble hitting 1000 calories per day because she has seriously cleaned up her diet and is now getting full from 800 calories of chicken and veg. Most of those threads quickly have people throw out calorie dense options - oil, avocadoes, slather on the peanut butter, etc. When she comes back saying she doesn't like or is allergic to these options, at what point do you say , hey , if anything your new lifestyle is what appears to be unhealthy because you can't even meet basic caloric goals? At what point do you remind her that if she wants to be in this for the long haul, she may wish to reintroduce certain foods that she does like in a controlled manner, because we ALL need to learn moderation at some point? IMO, stopping at "here's some calorie dense options" and not seizing the opportunity to give some excellent long term advice would be the poor quality approach. And if you feel you want to focus on consuming healthier foods, you can always post those responses to those threads. These are adults reading the responses and I'm sure ultimately, they'll decide on their own to do what's best for themselves

anchiel

I don't think anyone's bashing eating whatever diet you choose. Obviously, you can get off track eating both healthy and processed foods. When someone says they're going to stick to only one kind, I think what most people are trying to do is tell them they have options, in case they mistakenly believe that eating "healthy" foods is the only way to go. Everything - healthy, processed, a mixture of the two - is fine for your body as long as it's in moderation. There isn't really a good analogy for this, but it's as if someone said that they're only going to listen to classical music because it makes them smarter. There are people who are passionate about all kinds of other music that will step up to its defense and sing its merits, but ultimately, no one's going to plunk headphones down on your head and force you to listen to those other genres, just as no one is going to force a different diet down your throat with just their words.

LoupGarouTFTs

I'm nowhere near a perfectly "clean" eater, but I try my best to eat a lot healthier than I used to. The junk food warrior's best excuse is "not sustainable". They'll trot that one out repeatedly to justify their daily chocolate/cake/cookies/ice cream, whatever. Believe it or not, none of that crap was part of my diet to begin with, even when I was putting on the weight. So why would I care to eat it now just to get this mythical "sustainable" diet?

If you never ate it, then that "crap" is not part of a sustainable diet for YOU. However, you might like to eat quinoa so much that you felt you really couldn't live without it (and I'm not saying you do--just an example). If you liked eating quinoa that much, do you really think you could sustain a diet that did not include it? Or would you crave quinoa and think about it every time you prepared a meal? Wouldn't you eventually fall off the quinoa wagon and maybe indulge to the point of a binge? On the other hand, quinoa is one of the nastiest substances on the face of the planet--"crap" in your parlance. I'm not going to eat another bite of it if I can possibly manage it. Obviously quinoa is not part of my sustainable diet. A sustainable diet is different for everyone, simple because we are not all clones of a single person and have our own personal tastes.

anchiel

I'm not sure why clean is such a threatening word to people when it's used by others to describe their own diets or how they try to make their choices. (I get it if someone is demeaning someone else's diet.) How clean I try to keep my diet is as relevant to my feelings about you and your diet as how clean I keep my house is.

Wait- If I can carry the clean argument over to housekeeping, life could get a lot easier. There's no one definition of a clean house, so it's meaningless to try to keep one. I can't make a lifestyle change, where I'll never ever have a messy house again, so why try. If I say I am trying to keep my house clean, others might get offended. This could work for me, I have a messy house and I hate to clean.

I found the post a little ambiguous, so I'm not sure if this was the intent, but both clean eaters and ethical vegans can be very healthy in body and mind. Food can reflect morality for a lot of different people. All of the major religions I think of off the top of my head have some form of food related restriction, teaching, or code attached.

+1 for the cleaning analogy from the person who's always been on the messy side and isn't able to keep things perfect for longer than a day. Do what works for you, don't worry about the judgements of others.

MelodyandBarbells

I'm nowhere near a perfectly "clean" eater, but I try my best to eat a lot healthier than I used to. The junk food warrior's best excuse is "not sustainable". They'll trot that one out repeatedly to justify their daily chocolate/cake/cookies/ice cream, whatever. Believe it or not, none of that crap was part of my diet to begin with, even when I was putting on the weight. So why would I care to eat it now just to get this mythical "sustainable" diet?

And you're sure those items were not intended as a place holder / metaphor for whatever foods you used to enjoy, and ***insert restrictive eating plan here*** is now telling you to cut out altogether?

JesterMFP

I'm nowhere near a perfectly "clean" eater, but I try my best to eat a lot healthier than I used to. The junk food warrior's best excuse is "not sustainable". They'll trot that one out repeatedly to justify their daily chocolate/cake/cookies/ice cream, whatever. Believe it or not, none of that crap was part of my diet to begin with, even when I was putting on the weight. So why would I care to eat it now just to get this mythical "sustainable" diet?

So, you're not really the target audience of those kinds of posts. I don't think anyone is advocating that people should take up eating cookies and ice cream just for the sake of it. The idea is helping people to change habits in ways that are actually sustainable, which often means making small, gradual changes. It means starting with the way you already eat, and making the changes you need to make to reach your goals. It's not that chocolate/cake/cookies are "better" than other food, it's that a lot of people enjoy eating those things, and struggle to keep going on diets where they have to cut them out completely.

I think there's also this common assumption that those who advocate eating all/any foods in moderation are spending their days in McDonalds, eating only fast food and cake. That those who advocate moderation don't care about nutrition at all. Most of the time, you'll find that there is actually a middle ground, where people can meet their nutritional needs and enjoy food (any food) that they enjoy without having to feel guilty about it.

rbiss

I definitely think most people are just trying to teach moderation. My personality leans toward the extreme and I used to get very upset if everything wasn't prepared fresh from home. It definitely set me up for failure because it's just unrealistic right now. I have alot of things to figure out which are all a drain on my time. Now I eat way more processed than I would like and I know I would feel much better if I could cut some of it out, but I am under my goals (most days), I workout 5-6 days a week, and the figuring it out part will happen naturally along the way. I am still learning to just let go and trust in this process. So in summary, I don't think people discourage eating well, just when it's taken to an extreme because its just not a realistic goal.

cheripugh1

I've been going through lots of posts, and I see this very often: "It doesn't matter what you eat, losing weight is a matter of taking in fewer calories than you use" or "If it fits your macros, then all is fine". Isn't losing weight a part of getting healthy (or healthier) for most people? If that assumption is true (and after reading some of these posts, I'm not sure it is), then why does everyone say it is OK to eat all the processed foods that are in the American diet and has lead us, as a nation, to be the fattest industrialized nation on earth? And we know obesity contributes to diabetes, heart disease, stroke....not exactly what I would call healthy.

I'm not advocating not having a treat if you want it (this from someone who had some chocolate ice cream last night). But I don't see how eating fast foods and processed foods in the quantities offered out there can possibly be healthy. And so many people on MFP don't just say it is OK, but seem to encourage their consumption.

Just wondering.....

Well for whatever reason not everyone can switch to 'healthy' foods and not all 'bad' foods are actually bad. Reality is you need to fill your diet with what you will be eating for a lifetime. Not what you will eat until you reach X weight, which many people do and then gain it all plus some back. In other countries they eat 'bad' foods to the max, have you not looked at the recipes, the real ones from some of those places? (like French) they are in shape because they typically walk most places and they know portions and how much of the 'bad' they can have and fill up on the 'good'.

It is about learning what a portion is, how many calories and negatives are in something, like sodium levels, bad fats, what are positives in your calories like good fats and fiber. It means learning to be able to go anywhere and fix a plate and know what you are doing, not going and whining about how fattening or 'unhealthy' grandma Sue's foods are, or what everyone brought to the potluck!

anchiel

I'm nowhere near a perfectly "clean" eater, but I try my best to eat a lot healthier than I used to. The junk food warrior's best excuse is "not sustainable". They'll trot that one out repeatedly to justify their daily chocolate/cake/cookies/ice cream, whatever. Believe it or not, none of that crap was part of my diet to begin with, even when I was putting on the weight. So why would I care to eat it now just to get this mythical "sustainable" diet?

If you never ate it, then that "crap" is not part of a sustainable diet for YOU. However, you might like to eat quinoa so much that you felt you really couldn't live without it (and I'm not saying you do--just an example). If you liked eating quinoa that much, do you really think you could sustain a diet that did not include it? Or would you crave quinoa and think about it every time you prepared a meal? Wouldn't you eventually fall off the quinoa wagon and maybe indulge to the point of a binge? On the other hand, quinoa is one of the nastiest substances on the face of the planet--"crap" in your parlance. I'm not going to eat another bite of it if I can possibly manage it. Obviously quinoa is not part of my sustainable diet. A sustainable diet is different for everyone, simple because we are not all clones of a single person and have our own personal tastes.

^ Love this, works for everyone. I'm just starting to eat healthy, and most of the time it's great, I'm really happy with the foods I eat, but sometimes I just really want a burger, or a piece of cake - that's just my weakness, and that's okay.

geebusuk

As far as 'clean' goes, in general I find the people that use the word can't even come up with a consistent and congruent description of what that means.

It seems to be a way of eating has it's basis in unnecessarily demonising other ways of eating.

I agree with this.

People are free to eat what they want, but some seem to not realize that obesity/weight gain is ONE side effect from unhealthy eating, but far from all.

If you don't care about your general health but merely want to look better, then sure, it's fine to eat junk in limited amounts and lose.

The reality is that the US as a nation is overfed and undernourished. The ready made bread contains so much gluten it is ruining people's digestive systems. When they tested the spices that come with noodles on rats, they found it kills brain cells. If people knew what they were actually eating, I'm sure a lot more would stop. Don't get me started on sugar.

Cancers, asthma, eczema, digestive problems, skin problems, fertility issues plus much more - this is diet related stuff.
As Jamie Oliver says in his TED talk - Americans have blessed their children with a shorter life span than themselves. I don't care if some want to kill themselves by eating crap, but when giving it to their children, it pisses me off.

(And yes I know this goes for other countries too, but the US is the far worst).

Ciatations, please.
(Ones that link to decent studies, not sensationalist articles.
Also, Jamie Oliver was happy to get a high protein low fat product demonised and removed from a lot of food, using 'chemical' names to scare people, ignoring the same chemical has been used in foods like cheese for a long time.
It would seem he cared a lot more about publicity for himself (which he's done very well out) than the health of others.


I should note that yes, for some people 'clean' may still be the best way to live healthily.
But I can't help but feel that if said people took the time instead to learn how to select food to match their requirements without it, overall they'd save a lot of time/hassle!

FlaxMilk

As far as 'clean' goes, in general I find the people that use the word can't even come up with a consistent and congruent description of what that means.
It seems to be a way of eating has it's basis in unnecessarily demonising other ways of eating.

Unless I tell you that your food is demonic and going to hell, why assume that me striving for a clean diet has anything to do with you? Clean in any context doesn't have a consistent and congruent standard. I promise that what passes as a clean house to me does not to many people. (If a clean eater or housekeeper, or a person with a "healthy or clean sex life" openly judges you, yes, I get it. But I'm not offended by what someone else defines as their healthy sex life.)

*To clarify, I don't identify as a clean eater, but my perfect ideal diet would be, so I may say I try to eat clean. This is about my goals as much as training for a marathon is about someone else's.

Firehawk734

In my experience, there is a big difference with the way you FEEL when you eat very lean, healthy, unprocessed foods. I don't think most people can do it because let's all face it, we are hooked on processed crap. It is just a reality. It's easier to eat nutrisystem processed crap, weight watchers crap, protein shakes, whatever other frozen crap, etc.

But try to take a 10-day stretch where you eat nothing but chicken, lean red meat, seafood, eggs, spinach, sweet potatoes, ezekiel bread, kashi go lean cereal, or other very lean, 'clean' foods like that.

I'm telling you, what a noticeable difference in the way you FEEL. Less sodium (means less water weight), more energy. Punch in a diet like that on myfitnesspal and watch how all of the vitamins are covered 100+%. Punch in a diet that contains processed crap and watch how little fiber and vitamins show up in your myfitnesspal.

Add 5oz of spinach to your diet daily and watch how many 100s of percent that adds to those vitamins. It is a lot healthier than a hot dog bun.

I don't think it's realistic to give up all junk food, but I do believe in going long stretches without it (as long as you can), eating like I mentioned above, and then giving yourself a break here and there to enjoy junk. After awhile you stop craving processed stuff anyway, but those cravings come back when you go too long without a meal or when a holiday comes up.

Yes you could work in pizza on a regular daily basis, but I don't think most people have the ability to control themselves, and something like pizza is way too high in calories. It's hard to eat only 1 slice of pizza. Heck, for me it's hard to eat less than 1 pizza lol.

I gave up even the protein shakes 2 yrs ago and felt so much better. It's more satisfying to eat your food than drink it anyway.