Why do people seem to bash "healthy"eating?
Replies
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I'm not offended. I'm disagreeing with your argument. This won't be the first time I've said it: I would be vegan if you could prove to me that it was less healthy than the Standard American Diet, because it is about my personal value system. Most religious people I know wouldn't change their food based customs based on being told they are less mentally healthy. So tell me again, who are ethical vegans more orthorexic than? I don't think your opinion is offensive, I think you're wrong.
Whatever.0 -
it seems that only flax milk noticed that in my original question, I said RELIGIOUS paleos and PETA vegans. noticed that I.am.pointing to EXTREME believers of these diets?
I believe it is the EXTREMENESS of people towards a "diet" that causes eating disorders not being a vegan or paleo per se.
a vegan on carrot and celery as likely to get an eating disorder as non vegan who.eats chicken breast and broccoli everyday0 -
I'm not offended. I'm disagreeing with your argument. This won't be the first time I've said it: I would be vegan if you could prove to me that it was less healthy than the Standard American Diet, because it is about my personal value system. Most religious people I know wouldn't change their food based customs based on being told they are less mentally healthy. So tell me again, who are ethical vegans more orthorexic than? I don't think your opinion is offensive, I think you're wrong.
Whatever.
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Last comment I'm going to bother with here. I have all kinds of folks on my FL. Clean eaters, dirty eaters, paleo, atkins, primal, vegan, vegetarian, keto followers, you name it. A good few of them are even in this thread. I got love for all of them, and fully support everyone in their personal goals.
That said, I DO pay attention to people's food journals, and can pretty accurately predict which of them are going to go off the rails at least once a week and get frustrated with themselves. I'll just say it isn't the clean eaters, paleo, atkins, primal, vegan, vegetarian, or keto followers.0 -
That said, I DO pay attention to people's food journals, and can pretty accurately predict which of them are going to go off the rails at least once a week and get frustrated with themselves. I'll just say it isn't the clean eaters, paleo, atkins, primal, vegan, vegetarian, or keto followers.
So how many times have I gone off the rails? I'll make my food diary public long enough for you to look at it.0 -
That said, I DO pay attention to people's food journals, and can pretty accurately predict which of them are going to go off the rails at least once a week and get frustrated with themselves. I'll just say it isn't the clean eaters, paleo, atkins, primal, vegan, vegetarian, or keto followers.
So how many times have I gone off the rails? I'll make my food diary public long enough for you to look at it.
Well let's have another look at it when you've been going at it for more than a week or two, and we'll see.0 -
That said, I DO pay attention to people's food journals, and can pretty accurately predict which of them are going to go off the rails at least once a week and get frustrated with themselves. I'll just say it isn't the clean eaters, paleo, atkins, primal, vegan, vegetarian, or keto followers.
So how many times have I gone off the rails? I'll make my food diary public long enough for you to look at it.
What exercise did you do that burned 921 calories on 4/25/14?0 -
That said, I DO pay attention to people's food journals, and can pretty accurately predict which of them are going to go off the rails at least once a week and get frustrated with themselves. I'll just say it isn't the clean eaters, paleo, atkins, primal, vegan, vegetarian, or keto followers.
So how many times have I gone off the rails? I'll make my food diary public long enough for you to look at it.
What exercise did you do that burned 921 calories on 4/25/14?
My activity level is set to "light" for the week. On Friday I spent four hours working on a goat farm, helping with the assessment, milking, cleaning, and other vigorous activities. I then went and walked a client dog for about three miles, returned home, and spent time gardening and housecleaning. Shortly before bed I did some stretching and did some core muscle exercises. At 9:20 I passed out on the couch and slept for 12 hours.
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I'm not going to get into scientific debates with anyone, I'm not a scientist or nutritionist. I'll leave that to them. I just don't agree that processed foods are great and "we get fat cuz we're all in offices now". If you contact doctor's who specialize in health and nutrition, do they tell you "eat at mcdonald's? or hey, it's ok, you can be healthy there, doubtful you'll find one. I never said you can't lose weight eating those things. I just think making your food intake with simpler, more wholesome foods other than processed foods is healthier for your body. I did say it was my opinion also, and if you don't like my opinion, your welcome to ignore it, instead of lashing out at it or me.I don't eat clean, but like I said, I'm trying to change my lifelong habits of eating processed foods and easy choices into better for me foods and cooking more at home. I'm learning, and pushing forward and trying. That's all.0
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Do me, do me!That said, I DO pay attention to people's food journals, and can pretty accurately predict which of them are going to go off the rails at least once a week and get frustrated with themselves. I'll just say it isn't the clean eaters, paleo, atkins, primal, vegan, vegetarian, or keto followers.
So, on what basis don't you agree with it?I'm not going to get into scientific debates with anyone, I'm not a scientist or nutritionist. I'll leave that to them...
. I just don't agree that processed foods are great and "we get fat cuz we're all in offices now".
Because 'professionals' who are used to simplifying things for the public don't recommend something the public may take in the wrong way?0 -
That said, I DO pay attention to people's food journals, and can pretty accurately predict which of them are going to go off the rails at least once a week and get frustrated with themselves. I'll just say it isn't the clean eaters, paleo, atkins, primal, vegan, vegetarian, or keto followers.
So how many times have I gone off the rails? I'll make my food diary public long enough for you to look at it.
Well let's have another look at it when you've been going at it for more than a week or two, and we'll see.
I've logged in for 22 days . . . or are you backing away from your "once a week" assessment? I can tell you how many times: once. I ate a bit over for Pascha--not so different from dozens of people on this site. 0 -
Having an opinion is fine. Insisting your opinion is right and trying to use science to support it, when the actual science shows the exact opposite, is not fine. You keep appealing to authority to justify yourself. The simple fact is that most registered dietitians have no problem with processed foods. They focus on a patient's macronutrients and micronutrients, and tell them to avoid foods that may trigger specific intolerance or allergic reactions the patient might have. I have never talked to a single registered dietitian that makes blanket recommendations of eliminating any food for no specific reason. It probably has something to do with the fact that they are doctors and scientists, and they actually understand how biology works.I'm not going to get into scientific debates with anyone, I'm not a scientist or nutritionist. I'll leave that to them. I just don't agree that processed foods are great and "we get fat cuz we're all in offices now". If you contact doctor's who specialize in health and nutrition, do they tell you "eat at mcdonald's? or hey, it's ok, you can be healthy there, doubtful you'll find one. I never said you can't lose weight eating those things. I just think making your food intake with simpler, more wholesome foods other than processed foods is healthier for your body. I did say it was my opinion also, and if you don't like my opinion, your welcome to ignore it, instead of lashing out at it or me.I don't eat clean, but like I said, I'm trying to change my lifelong habits of eating processed foods and easy choices into better for me foods and cooking more at home. I'm learning, and pushing forward and trying. That's all.0 -
Obviously they order the pewp pizza from Scat's Pizza palace.
Why is pizza crap? If you're going to quote my post, you should take the time to read it. I'd appreciate it immensely, thanks. Pizza is crap. It's declicious, carb-y, awesome crap. And when the sugar rush runs off and leaves an hour after eating it and I'm still starving but now several hundred calories later, that's decidedly not good.
But why is it "crap?"(There are those pants again.) You toss the word around but we never get an operational definition. Just saying that you're still hungry after consuming the calories doesn't make it "crap." It simply makes the pizza "unsatisfying." Would you care to elaborate?
Or maybe from that pizza buffet place, Feces....
...er, I mean, Cece's.
Anyhow, in...
...to understand better how I bulked in 2012 eating "clean" foods (using the strictest of definitions of the word) and then cut and maintained in 2013 eating "processed/junk" foods. Well, I mean, besides the obvious difference in calories to which I adhered during each of those times.0 -
Last comment I'm going to bother with here. I have all kinds of folks on my FL. Clean eaters, dirty eaters, paleo, atkins, primal, vegan, vegetarian, keto followers, you name it. A good few of them are even in this thread. I got love for all of them, and fully support everyone in their personal goals.
That said, I DO pay attention to people's food journals, and can pretty accurately predict which of them are going to go off the rails at least once a week and get frustrated with themselves. I'll just say it isn't the clean eaters, paleo, atkins, primal, vegan, vegetarian, or keto followers.
I'm guessing you can tell who eats way above their caloric goal but are they always posting about it in a "frustrated" manner when they do? How do you know this isn't planned and that they are frustrated about "going off the rails"? I happen to like food a lot. 2600 calories on Friday and in all likelihood still under my weekly target by the time today ends. My daily goal is 15200 -
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this is exactly why I wrote earlier that healthy eating is vague.The term "healthy eating" has become very subjective.
To vegans, animal products are unhealthy (or perhaps just unethical and undesirable).
To low carbers and paleos, whole grains are considered unhealthy.
To vegetarians, meat is usually considered an unhealthy food.
To the low fat crowd, fats and oils are considered unhealthy.
To low carbers, fats and oils are usually considered at least harmless and at best, healthy.
To those concerned with sugar intake, anything more than 2 fruits a day is considered unhealthy.
To raw foodists, cooked food is unhealthy.
To macrobiotists, well, who knows what the heck they think is unhealthy but I'm sure there's a list.
And on and on and on.
You get the gist.
The bottom line is, some people can eat anything they want and live a healthy life with little to no disease until the age of 110.
For others, every little jelly bean and grain of oat makes them sick and they're sickly all their lives. They can't help it.
I think people should just eat what they can get away with and like Warren Zevon said, Enjoy Every Sandwich.0 -
this is exactly why I wrote earlier that healthy eating is vague.
Sorry Chloe, I only read the original posting. The thread was so long I didn't go through all the posts.
no need to apologize. I quoted you because I agree with what you posted.
if you noticed, I pitted the hardcore paleo and PETA vegan in a rhetorical question.
I proudly say, I violate vegan and paleo diet by eating animals as well as tons of grains with occassional legumes! lol0 -
True, and good points. But I was shocked(maybe I shouldn't have been) over how much money, time, and research food companies put into making processed foods that not only taste good, but actually get people to eat more of it. And, yes, over consumption is the culprit, but how many people can say that they got fat on over-consuming broccoli or apples? It is the "junk" food that is being over-consumed because it is DESIGNED to be over-consumed.
I'm not advocating never having a treat, but when people write posts and say they are going to lay off pizza, people jump on them. Maybe laying off the pizza, if it causes them to overeat (again, by design), then what is wrong with that? Why do they get berated by others? Others say that they are wrong.
Maybe I'm over-thinking this, but I still find myself astounded.
Kinda silly, but it's a balance.
Sure, it's harder to eat 1000 cal of broccoli than french fries. And the former will probably keep you fuller longer.
I have eaten "healthy" foods in obscene amounts. My issues with nutrition are not really that much the quality of my diet but portion sizes. 2 lb of chicken breast? no problem. A bunch of 8 bananas? No problem. Of course, that means that I can also eat a large pizza on my own, which would make the problem worse.
I have huge issues with cravings/satiety regarding cereals. They are really good for my racing/riding since they are compact, high-energy, and quick to digest. The problems is then I want another large bowl 0 -
No one bashes healthy eating. They just define it differently than you do. The definitions looks so different because some define based on science, and others on information they get from documentaries, and daytime television, and the like.
But they do bash healthy eating. Sometimes those who are eating clean, eating healthy, eating Paleo or eating vegetarian get tired of the bashing. I have not seen the 'preaching' that this is the only way to eat that anyone not buying into the 'eat whatever you want' are accused of here but I have seen the bashing of anyone who even remotely mentions they don't want to or don't eat a particular food. I don't get it. I'm on the clean eating spectrum and certainly don't push my dietary choices on others yet others feel the need to bash as soon as I or anyone else eating anything but the SAD comments on any of these types of threads. I'm sure there are many members here not eating the SAD and really don't care what others eat. In my opinion, it is none of my business what anyone else eats and I'm not responsible for what they eat. It's too bad the bashing happens but it does.
i would like to know who this "they" is …
the only problem comes up when people say "you have to eat 'clean' to lose body fat", or "I calorie deficit does not work for me, but then i switch to paleo and the weight started coming off" which we both know that both of these are not true ..if you want to do Paleo and lose weight great, but don't tell me "calorie deficit does not work for you, but paleo does, or you have to eat clean if you want to lose body fat…0 -
No one bashes healthy eating. They just define it differently than you do. The definitions looks so different because some define based on science, and others on information they get from documentaries, and daytime television, and the like.
But they do bash healthy eating. Sometimes those who are eating clean, eating healthy, eating Paleo or eating vegetarian get tired of the bashing. I have not seen the 'preaching' that this is the only way to eat that anyone not buying into the 'eat whatever you want' are accused of here but I have seen the bashing of anyone who even remotely mentions they don't want to or don't eat a particular food. I don't get it. I'm on the clean eating spectrum and certainly don't push my dietary choices on others yet others feel the need to bash as soon as I or anyone else eating anything but the SAD comments on any of these types of threads. I'm sure there are many members here not eating the SAD and really don't care what others eat. In my opinion, it is none of my business what anyone else eats and I'm not responsible for what they eat. It's too bad the bashing happens but it does.
i would like to know who this "they" is …
the only problem comes up when people say "you have to eat 'clean' to lose body fat", or "I calorie deficit does not work for me, but then i switch to paleo and the weight started coming off" which we both know that both of these are not true ..if you want to do Paleo and lose weight great, but don't tell me "calorie deficit does not work for you, but paleo does, or you have to eat clean if you want to lose body fat…
YOU! 0 -
That said, I DO pay attention to people's food journals, and can pretty accurately predict which of them are going to go off the rails at least once a week and get frustrated with themselves. I'll just say it isn't the clean eaters, paleo, atkins, primal, vegan, vegetarian, or keto followers.
So how many times have I gone off the rails? I'll make my food diary public long enough for you to look at it.
My food diary of almost three years is and always has been public. I welcome any judgments on it...from 2012 when I was strict paleo...and times before and after that when I was not. I'd love to know what insights can be gleaned from it...(mostly so I can laugh at them).0 -
No one bashes healthy eating. They just define it differently than you do. The definitions looks so different because some define based on science, and others on information they get from documentaries, and daytime television, and the like.
But they do bash healthy eating. Sometimes those who are eating clean, eating healthy, eating Paleo or eating vegetarian get tired of the bashing. I have not seen the 'preaching' that this is the only way to eat that anyone not buying into the 'eat whatever you want' are accused of here but I have seen the bashing of anyone who even remotely mentions they don't want to or don't eat a particular food. I don't get it. I'm on the clean eating spectrum and certainly don't push my dietary choices on others yet others feel the need to bash as soon as I or anyone else eating anything but the SAD comments on any of these types of threads. I'm sure there are many members here not eating the SAD and really don't care what others eat. In my opinion, it is none of my business what anyone else eats and I'm not responsible for what they eat. It's too bad the bashing happens but it does.
i would like to know who this "they" is …
the only problem comes up when people say "you have to eat 'clean' to lose body fat", or "I calorie deficit does not work for me, but then i switch to paleo and the weight started coming off" which we both know that both of these are not true ..if you want to do Paleo and lose weight great, but don't tell me "calorie deficit does not work for you, but paleo does, or you have to eat clean if you want to lose body fat…
YOU!
when have I ever bashed healthy eating????0 -
True, and good points. But I was shocked(maybe I shouldn't have been) over how much money, time, and research food companies put into making processed foods that not only taste good, but actually get people to eat more of it. And, yes, over consumption is the culprit, but how many people can say that they got fat on over-consuming broccoli or apples? It is the "junk" food that is being over-consumed because it is DESIGNED to be over-consumed.
I'm not advocating never having a treat, but when people write posts and say they are going to lay off pizza, people jump on them. Maybe laying off the pizza, if it causes them to overeat (again, by design), then what is wrong with that? Why do they get berated by others? Others say that they are wrong.
Maybe I'm over-thinking this, but I still find myself astounded.
Kinda silly, but it's a balance.
Sure, it's harder to eat 1000 cal of broccoli than french fries. And the former will probably keep you fuller longer.
I have eaten "healthy" foods in obscene amounts. My issues with nutrition are not really that much the quality of my diet but portion sizes. 2 lb of chicken breast? no problem. A bunch of 8 bananas? No problem. Of course, that means that I can also eat a large pizza on my own, which would make the problem worse.
I have huge issues with cravings/satiety regarding cereals. They are really good for my racing/riding since they are compact, high-energy, and quick to digest. The problems is then I want another large bowl
LOL1000 cal of broccoli. :laugh:
I challenge you to do that in one day...(hell, I challenge you to do that in one week)...and let us know about your experience with it.
ETA: Also, to take this a step further and highlight part of the problem here, I don't believe anyone would argue that eating 1000 calories of broccoli is "healthy" in any context whatsoever...but obviously everyone agrees that broccoli is a "healthy" food...and there's the problem. Ignoring context and dose when evaluating "healthiness" of a food leads to some inevitably bogus results.0 -
No one is bashing healthy eating. What's mainly being said is moderation, stay away from extremes.0
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Having an opinion is fine. Insisting your opinion is right and trying to use science to support it, when the actual science shows the exact opposite, is not fine. You keep appealing to authority to justify yourself. The simple fact is that most registered dietitians have no problem with processed foods. They focus on a patient's macronutrients and micronutrients, and tell them to avoid foods that may trigger specific intolerance or allergic reactions the patient might have. I have never talked to a single registered dietitian that makes blanket recommendations of eliminating any food for no specific reason. It probably has something to do with the fact that they are doctors and scientists, and they actually understand how biology works.I'm not going to get into scientific debates with anyone, I'm not a scientist or nutritionist. I'll leave that to them. I just don't agree that processed foods are great and "we get fat cuz we're all in offices now". If you contact doctor's who specialize in health and nutrition, do they tell you "eat at mcdonald's? or hey, it's ok, you can be healthy there, doubtful you'll find one. I never said you can't lose weight eating those things. I just think making your food intake with simpler, more wholesome foods other than processed foods is healthier for your body. I did say it was my opinion also, and if you don't like my opinion, your welcome to ignore it, instead of lashing out at it or me.I don't eat clean, but like I said, I'm trying to change my lifelong habits of eating processed foods and easy choices into better for me foods and cooking more at home. I'm learning, and pushing forward and trying. That's all.
Actually, my husband IS a dietitian, and the sports nutritionist for the university. I would have to double check with him to be sure, but I can almost guarantee you McDonalds hasn't been on any of his diet plans.0 -
That said, I DO pay attention to people's food journals, and can pretty accurately predict which of them are going to go off the rails at least once a week and get frustrated with themselves. I'll just say it isn't the clean eaters, paleo, atkins, primal, vegan, vegetarian, or keto followers.
So how many times have I gone off the rails? I'll make my food diary public long enough for you to look at it.
My food diary of almost three years is and always has been public. I welcome any judgments on it...from 2012 when I was strict paleo...and times before and after that when I was not. I'd love to know what insights can be gleaned from it...(mostly so I can laugh at them).
That's fine. My friends (the people whose opinions matter to me) can see it. Those are the only people who need to see it. 0 -
I only made it through the first three pages of responses, but in response to the OP's first couple of posts - no one is bashing 'healthy' eating. And no one is trying to NOT be supportive of people who did their homework and are making educated decisions about following a particular diet plan. But I think many of us who have been here for a decent amount of time are pretty good at sniffing out the people who literally just started an account two days ago, have been yo-yo, fad dieters for years [& failed every time], and are here trying to get some validation that their 600 calorie-a-day lettuce diet is the 'right' way to go. Obviously I'm exaggerating, but you get the picture. Insert 'carb-free' or 'sugar-detox' instead and those are actual posts I've seen on MFP very recently.
The point is, most of the veterans here are simply trying to prevent the uneducated, naive 'newbies' from making themselves miserable by doing some ridiculous fad diet or juice detox recommended by Dr. Oz to lose weight. Those kinds of extremes rarely work or are 'healthy'. Completely cutting out carbs or sugar is not 'healthy'. So many of the supposed 'healthy eating' trends just aren't ACTUALLY healthy.
When someone comes on here & says 'I'm eating 1500 calories a day, lots of fruits & veggies but once in awhile I have some chocolate or ice cream...', no one bashes that. & I would consider that pretty 'healthy'. It's when you see people on here saying 'I'm eating 1200 calories a day or less, and I'm only eating salads because I've been taught that's the only thing I'm allowed to eat when I'm dieting', THAT'S when people get frustrated & try to explain to them that they should rethink their goals and timelines, and consider allowing themselves to eat things you would actually ENJOY, not just salads 24/7.
In short, the people getting 'bashed' [more like getting mostly really good advice with a few *kitten* thrown in] are usually the newbies with buzzword posts, fad-diets, juice-detoxes, sugar/carb-free, etc. who want to lose 100 lbs in 6 months. I think it's fair to say those people probably NEED the advice [or 'bashing' as you call it] being given to them.0 -
Having an opinion is fine. Insisting your opinion is right and trying to use science to support it, when the actual science shows the exact opposite, is not fine. You keep appealing to authority to justify yourself. The simple fact is that most registered dietitians have no problem with processed foods. They focus on a patient's macronutrients and micronutrients, and tell them to avoid foods that may trigger specific intolerance or allergic reactions the patient might have. I have never talked to a single registered dietitian that makes blanket recommendations of eliminating any food for no specific reason. It probably has something to do with the fact that they are doctors and scientists, and they actually understand how biology works.I'm not going to get into scientific debates with anyone, I'm not a scientist or nutritionist. I'll leave that to them. I just don't agree that processed foods are great and "we get fat cuz we're all in offices now". If you contact doctor's who specialize in health and nutrition, do they tell you "eat at mcdonald's? or hey, it's ok, you can be healthy there, doubtful you'll find one. I never said you can't lose weight eating those things. I just think making your food intake with simpler, more wholesome foods other than processed foods is healthier for your body. I did say it was my opinion also, and if you don't like my opinion, your welcome to ignore it, instead of lashing out at it or me.I don't eat clean, but like I said, I'm trying to change my lifelong habits of eating processed foods and easy choices into better for me foods and cooking more at home. I'm learning, and pushing forward and trying. That's all.
Actually, my husband IS a dietitian, and the sports nutritionist for the university. I would have to double check with him to be sure, but I can almost guarantee you McDonalds hasn't been on any of his diet plans.
Most reasonable folk would agree that fast food isn't part of a diet plan BUT here it is ok to eat all the McD's food you want and still lose weight. I suppose if one is interested in just the weight loss rather than health and fitness it can happen. I suspect there will be a few challenging your hubby for his radical diet plans that don't include McD's :bigsmile:0 -
Again; I would argue that the concept of a 'healthy food' is a redundant one.ETA: Also, to take this a step further and highlight part of the problem here, I don't believe anyone would argue that eating 1000 calories of broccoli is "healthy" in any context whatsoever...but obviously everyone agrees that broccoli is a "healthy" food...and there's the problem. Ignoring context and dose when evaluating "healthiness" of a food leads to some inevitably bogus results.
As you suggest, if you've already had a load of it, it's not going to be particularly 'healthy'. For some people, it's also going to make it harder to eat other food with different nutrients, so may actually be 'unhealthy' in that situation.0 -
If he thinks it's "bad", do ask him to explain WHY, while he's at it.Actually, my husband IS a dietitian, and the sports nutritionist for the university. I would have to double check with him to be sure, but I can almost guarantee you McDonalds hasn't been on any of his diet plans.
As above, I don't see any reason to avoid it in a diet where you make it fit your micro/macro nutrient goals.0
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