Why do people seem to bash "healthy"eating?

LiftAllThePizzas

I've been going through lots of posts, and I see this very often: "It doesn't matter what you eat, losing weight is a matter of taking in fewer calories than you use" or "If it fits your macros, then all is fine". Isn't losing weight a part of getting healthy (or healthier) for most people? If that assumption is true (and after reading some of these posts, I'm not sure it is), then why does everyone say it is OK to eat all the processed foods that are in the American diet and has lead us, as a nation, to be the fattest industrialized nation on earth? And we know obesity contributes to diabetes, heart disease, stroke....not exactly what I would call healthy.

I'm not advocating not having a treat if you want it (this from someone who had some chocolate ice cream last night). But I don't see how eating fast foods and processed foods in the quantities offered out there can possibly be healthy. And so many people on MFP don't just say it is OK, but seem to encourage their consumption.

Just wondering.....

Well, at least you acknowledge that this is your own failure.

SingingSingleTracker

Once upon a time we were told that we should only eat a few eggs a week because they were high in cholesterol and were bad for us. Now they are considered nature's perfect food. Butter was once considered evil because it was a saturated fat. Now margarine is under attack for its transfats and other ingredients. Don't even get me started on soy. Who's to say what food the food scientists/nutritional experts will get wrong next week?

I'll continue to bank more on the scientific community and the data as it unfolds. And yes, thanks to advances in research, money for studies, and the rapid growth in technology - there has been an amazing amount of information available in the past two decades. And it will only continue to grow which is a positive for all of us.

It's easy to cherry pick some random things like eggs, wine, coffee, soy, butter, etc... that have been targets in the type of stereoptypical coverage of "first they said they were bad, now they say they are good, now they say they are bad, now they are good..." and on and on. And, of course, the efficacy of every study has to be scrutinized as well to read way beyond the headlines.

That being said, I will continue to choose wisely what fuel I put in my body with the knowledge of a family history of heart disease. And I do eat eggs. I rarely use butter, and soy only about once every 4 or 5 months. There is much more wine and coffee pumping through my veins. ;-)

amwbox

Its no so much what's being eaten as the quantity of it. Eat healthy or don't, but if you eat too many calories worth of healthy food you'll gain weight, if you eat too few calories worth of junk food you'll lose weight.

Some scientist or academic, don't recall for sure, recently did what he called a 7-11 diet...he literally lived on junk food from 7-11 for a period of time and lost weight in the process.

In terms of weight loss, as opposed to overall health, you can eat junk food. You just have to keep the calories below maintenance. That's just thermodynamics.

Sabine_Stroehm

Healthy eating IS bashed on here. There is no doubt of that. As to why? I'm not sure.
I know when some folks here try to explain *why* someone (like me) aims to eat healthy, the reasons they come up with are absurd. I'll assume my reasons for their behaviors would be equally absurd.

But yes, healthy eating is openly mocked and bashed on here. Moderation (whatever folks mean by that) is the motto of mfp. No one defines it, but it's shouted from the roof tops. If you say "just eat healthy", you'll be hen pecked by folks demanding you define and defend that proclamation.

Fortunately, there are many GROUPS here where posters discuss the best ways to eat a nutritious diet and lose or maintain their weight.

Because you have to define healthy, and it's difficult.

If I have 3 slices of cheese pizza, is that healthy or not? You have no idea because you have to look at my overall diet and health. Same goes with all food. If I say I ate plain baked chicken breast and broccoli, is that healthy? In a vacuum, but not if I left out that I followed that with an ice cream and cookie binge.

Healthy and unhealthy, like clean and dirty, are almost impossible to define. The only thing people need to do is get their micro and macro nutrients. If that is achieved, they are healthy. The sources for those are irrelevant.

So it's bashed? That's a bit like cutting off your nose to spite your face.
It's the daily argument: there's no objective definition therefore we mock, we bash, we berate.
But not for "moderation". That one is just fine. lol. and IIFYM, of course (we don't know what your macros are, or what you eat, but IIFYM you're awesome).
Someone wants pizza, and they are struggling. Why is it bad when someone else suggests they make the pizza, and make it more nutritious. Or choose a more nutritious pizza restaurant. But not bad when 20 people say: eat the pizza and then work out?
This is a bizarre joint sometimes.

paperpudding

Born and bred Texan here. If I were any more Southern I'd be drowning in the Gulf of Mexico. This is just nonsense. There is no connection between racism and the word uppity. You just don't take kindly to being called out for your uppity attitude.

So, when did this thread become about me and my attitude? There are lots of people here with equally strong opinions.

However . . .

Texas is not "Deep South." Mississippi, Louisiana, and Alabama--and to some extent Georgia--are Deep South. I dare you to go out on my town's main street and accuse someone of being "uppity," with or without a racial epithet. Follow it up with a statement that includes, "you people." You'll be seeing out of one eye pretty quickly.

Texas is essentially a Western state and is pretty much large enough to span a couple of regions on its own. However, it is not and never has been included in the Deep South.

You're funny. Possibly delusional and quite misinformed, but funny.

And anyway I am in Australia and the word in my post meant what I explained it meant and nothing else.

And it's fine to have strong opinions but I thought your attitude to PP was uppity ( meaning what I explained the word means here ) and so I said so.

But as you said, the thread isn't about you, so enough hijacking, and anyway it is past midnight here and I have work in the morning so over and out from me.

chloematilds

Healthy eating IS bashed on here. There is no doubt of that. As to why? I'm not sure.
I know when some folks here try to explain *why* someone (like me) aims to eat healthy, the reasons they come up with are absurd. I'll assume my reasons for their behaviors would be equally absurd.

But yes, healthy eating is openly mocked and bashed on here. Moderation (whatever folks mean by that) is the motto of mfp. No one defines it, but it's shouted from the roof tops. If you say "just eat healthy", you'll be hen pecked by folks demanding you define and defend that proclamation.

Fortunately, there are many GROUPS here where posters discuss the best ways to eat a nutritious diet and lose or maintain their weight.

is eating chicken breast and asparagus daily healthy? how about the abc diet that is only.carrots and celery?

as.the poster above said, it's almost impossible to.define healthy eating w/o the consideration of the macronutrients and micronutrirnts

also what is healthy to a sheeple.of. healthy diet followers is not seen by other sheeple of "healthy dieters"

casr in point, who eats "healthier"? PETA vegans or religious Paleos?.

tigersword

This. The obesity problem has nothing to do with processed foods. We've been eating processed foods in the US in large quantities since around WWII. The biggest cause of the obesity problem is the fact that everyone works in an office now. People aren't active anymore. As human beings, we've been engineering and designing foods to be palatable for thousands of years, modern day food companies aren't doing anything different.

I don't agree with that at all. Processed foods have a real way of assisting our "getting fat" process. It takes way more effort for our bodies to process and use foods that are processed and full of chemicals to "preserve" it to get it in stores and get it to us without rotting, molding, spoiling, etc. And fast food is horrific for us, but unfortunately we've become dependent as a nation on taking the easier faster route to get food than going out and picking the proper foods for our bodies and actually going home and cooking them. Myself included, I'm not bashing others without including myself. Oh, we're in a hurry cuz we have to get to a movie or need to run our kids to an event, etc., just stop at McDonalds, Burger king, wendy's, arbys, subway, dominos, pizza hut, taco bell, sonic, little ceasar's, or tasty freeze... those are just the fast food places in the city I live in btw, there are many more out there. We're making it hard on our body to process preservative chemicals and additives that food manufacturers know are not good for us, and eventually, it causes your cells to "malfunction" and work less and less efficient until it too late. Then you get things like diabetes and other nutritionally induced medical issues from your body "giving up". I'd love to say this is just my opinion, and it is an opinion of mine, but you can consult many many doctors who specialize in these diseases and medical issues that will tell you that diets of these types of foods directly affect your body's ability to function properly.

Anyway, I don't eat "clean" as I'd like, but I am working my way to it, each day and week I get better and better at it, and I wish more people would.

Side note and food for thought: the federal government recently approved ketchup as an acceptable vegetable for our school children's lunches. Processed tomatoes, sugars and preservatives all squirt into a bottle is not a "vegetable"... what is the world coming to, geez.

Uhh, no. For one thing, McDonald's and Burger King have both been around since the 50s. Hell, the "fast food" restaurant concept dates back to the Ancient Romans. There's also plenty of science out there that directly debunks all of what you are babbling about. Those diseases aren't caused by foods. They are caused by obesity. Obesity isn't a new problem, either. Henry VIII was injured as a boy so he was far less active than other kings of his era. He was morbidly obese, and much fatter than his contemporaries because he wasn't active, which caused his death. President Taft had all sorts of health problems due to his obesity while he was President. He lost 80 pounds after his presidency and majorly improved his health, extending his life by 20 years.

Notice the theme? These problems, regardless of what the fear mongerers say, are not some new thing we've never experienced. Being obese causes health problems. Losing weight fixes those problems.

For more modern examples, look at "the Twinkie diet" or the documentary "Fat Head."

LoupGarouTFTs

[So it's bashed? That's a bit like cutting off your nose to spite your face.
It's the daily argument: there's no objective definition therefore we mock, we bash, we berate.
But not for "moderation". That one is just fine. lol. and IIFYM, of course (we don't know what your macros are, or what you eat, but IIFYM you're awesome).
Someone wants pizza, and they are struggling. Why is it bad when someone else suggests they make the pizza, and make it more nutritious. Or choose a more nutritious pizza restaurant. But not bad when 20 people say: eat the pizza and then work out?
This is a bizarre joint sometimes.

And this entire thread is a grand example of how people who do not eat in a perceived "healthy" manner are continuously bashed. There are some people who cannot behave in a respectful manner on either side.

FlaxMilk

casr in point, who eats "healthier"? PETA vegans or religious Paleos?.

Religious paleo for sure. PETA includes a list of "accidentally vegan" foods that in another time may have even been called "junk food."

MelodyandBarbells

Healthy eating IS bashed on here. There is no doubt of that. As to why? I'm not sure.
I know when some folks here try to explain *why* someone (like me) aims to eat healthy, the reasons they come up with are absurd. I'll assume my reasons for their behaviors would be equally absurd.

But yes, healthy eating is openly mocked and bashed on here. Moderation (whatever folks mean by that) is the motto of mfp. No one defines it, but it's shouted from the roof tops. If you say "just eat healthy", you'll be hen pecked by folks demanding you define and defend that proclamation.

Fortunately, there are many GROUPS here where posters discuss the best ways to eat a nutritious diet and lose or maintain their weight.

Because you have to define healthy, and it's difficult.

If I have 3 slices of cheese pizza, is that healthy or not? You have no idea because you have to look at my overall diet and health. Same goes with all food. If I say I ate plain baked chicken breast and broccoli, is that healthy? In a vacuum, but not if I left out that I followed that with an ice cream and cookie binge.

Healthy and unhealthy, like clean and dirty, are almost impossible to define. The only thing people need to do is get their micro and macro nutrients. If that is achieved, they are healthy. The sources for those are irrelevant.

So it's bashed? That's a bit like cutting off your nose to spite your face.
It's the daily argument: there's no objective definition therefore we mock, we bash, we berate.
But not for "moderation". That one is just fine. lol. and IIFYM, of course (we don't know what your macros are, or what you eat, but IIFYM you're awesome).
Someone wants pizza, and they are struggling. Why is it bad when someone else suggests they make the pizza, and make it more nutritious. Or choose a more nutritious pizza restaurant. But not bad when 20 people say: eat the pizza and then work out?
This is a bizarre joint sometimes.

I wonder if said nutritious pizza restaurant charges more? and actually, over compensating for eating too much food is frequently discouraged on here. Most people say to make it fit your caloric goal , or just let it go if you ate too much. You may need to reference a thread

amwbox

This. The obesity problem has nothing to do with processed foods. We've been eating processed foods in the US in large quantities since around WWII. The biggest cause of the obesity problem is the fact that everyone works in an office now. People aren't active anymore. As human beings, we've been engineering and designing foods to be palatable for thousands of years, modern day food companies aren't doing anything different.

I don't agree with that at all. Processed foods have a real way of assisting our "getting fat" process. It takes way more effort for our bodies to process and use foods that are processed and full of chemicals to "preserve" it to get it in stores and get it to us without rotting, molding, spoiling, etc. And fast food is horrific for us, but unfortunately we've become dependent as a nation on taking the easier faster route to get food than going out and picking the proper foods for our bodies and actually going home and cooking them. Myself included, I'm not bashing others without including myself. Oh, we're in a hurry cuz we have to get to a movie or need to run our kids to an event, etc., just stop at McDonalds, Burger king, wendy's, arbys, subway, dominos, pizza hut, taco bell, sonic, little ceasar's, or tasty freeze... those are just the fast food places in the city I live in btw, there are many more out there. We're making it hard on our body to process preservative chemicals and additives that food manufacturers know are not good for us, and eventually, it causes your cells to "malfunction" and work less and less efficient until it too late. Then you get things like diabetes and other nutritionally induced medical issues from your body "giving up". I'd love to say this is just my opinion, and it is an opinion of mine, but you can consult many many doctors who specialize in these diseases and medical issues that will tell you that diets of these types of foods directly affect your body's ability to function properly.

Anyway, I don't eat "clean" as I'd like, but I am working my way to it, each day and week I get better and better at it, and I wish more people would.

Side note and food for thought: the federal government recently approved ketchup as an acceptable vegetable for our school children's lunches. Processed tomatoes, sugars and preservatives all squirt into a bottle is not a "vegetable"... what is the world coming to, geez.

Uhh, no. For one thing, McDonald's and Burger King have both been around since the 50s. Hell, the "fast food" restaurant concept dates back to the Ancient Romans. There's also plenty of science out there that directly debunks all of what you are babbling about. Those diseases aren't caused by foods. They are caused by obesity. Obesity isn't a new problem, either. Henry VIII was injured as a boy so he was far less active than other kings of his era. He was morbidly obese, and much fatter than his contemporaries because he wasn't active, which caused his death. President Taft had all sorts of health problems due to his obesity while he was President. He lost 80 pounds after his presidency and majorly improved his health.

Notice the theme? These problems, regardless of what the fear mongerers say, are not some new thing we've never experienced. Being obese causes health problems. Losing weight fixes those problems.

For more modern examples, look at "the Twinkie diet" or the documentary "Fat Head."

I'm convinced its the processed sugar. There is a strong correlation between the mass introduction of heavy processed sugar into the diet...and the rise of obesity and related diseases. The fat isn't really the problem. The cholesterol isn't either. Gotta be the sugar.

chloematilds

casr in point, who eats "healthier"? PETA vegans or religious Paleos?.

Religious paleo for sure. PETA includes a list of "accidentally vegan" foods that in another time may have even been called "junk food."

for sure?

any scientific journal that is peer reviewed to back this up?

chloematilds

Healthy eating IS bashed on here. There is no doubt of that. As to why? I'm not sure.
I know when some folks here try to explain *why* someone (like me) aims to eat healthy, the reasons they come up with are absurd. I'll assume my reasons for their behaviors would be equally absurd.

But yes, healthy eating is openly mocked and bashed on here. Moderation (whatever folks mean by that) is the motto of mfp. No one defines it, but it's shouted from the roof tops. If you say "just eat healthy", you'll be hen pecked by folks demanding you define and defend that proclamation.

Fortunately, there are many GROUPS here where posters discuss the best ways to eat a nutritious diet and lose or maintain their weight.

Because you have to define healthy, and it's difficult.

If I have 3 slices of cheese pizza, is that healthy or not? You have no idea because you have to look at my overall diet and health. Same goes with all food. If I say I ate plain baked chicken breast and broccoli, is that healthy? In a vacuum, but not if I left out that I followed that with an ice cream and cookie binge.

Healthy and unhealthy, like clean and dirty, are almost impossible to define. The only thing people need to do is get their micro and macro nutrients. If that is achieved, they are healthy. The sources for those are irrelevant.

So it's bashed? That's a bit like cutting off your nose to spite your face.
It's the daily argument: there's no objective definition therefore we mock, we bash, we berate.
But not for "moderation". That one is just fine. lol. and IIFYM, of course (we don't know what your macros are, or what you eat, but IIFYM you're awesome).
Someone wants pizza, and they are struggling. Why is it bad when someone else suggests they make the pizza, and make it more nutritious. Or choose a more nutritious pizza restaurant. But not bad when 20 people say: eat the pizza and then work out?
This is a bizarre joint sometimes.

I think the bashing is to educate people that are new to this site that think they can only eat chicken breast and broccoli to lose weight. The idea is you really can eat almost everything with some moderation and reasonableness, and still lose weight and be healthy. It's more about education. For those of us that have been here a while, it gets tiresome, but I think it is necessary so that people avoid the "diet trap".

the "bodybuilder diet"

how many people aware that a significant portion of bodybuilders and figure.competitors develop eating disorders and severe metabolic damage?

MelodyandBarbells

This. The obesity problem has nothing to do with processed foods. We've been eating processed foods in the US in large quantities since around WWII. The biggest cause of the obesity problem is the fact that everyone works in an office now. People aren't active anymore. As human beings, we've been engineering and designing foods to be palatable for thousands of years, modern day food companies aren't doing anything different.

I don't agree with that at all. Processed foods have a real way of assisting our "getting fat" process. It takes way more effort for our bodies to process and use foods that are processed and full of chemicals to "preserve" it to get it in stores and get it to us without rotting, molding, spoiling, etc. And fast food is horrific for us, but unfortunately we've become dependent as a nation on taking the easier faster route to get food than going out and picking the proper foods for our bodies and actually going home and cooking them. Myself included, I'm not bashing others without including myself. Oh, we're in a hurry cuz we have to get to a movie or need to run our kids to an event, etc., just stop at McDonalds, Burger king, wendy's, arbys, subway, dominos, pizza hut, taco bell, sonic, little ceasar's, or tasty freeze... those are just the fast food places in the city I live in btw, there are many more out there. We're making it hard on our body to process preservative chemicals and additives that food manufacturers know are not good for us, and eventually, it causes your cells to "malfunction" and work less and less efficient until it too late. Then you get things like diabetes and other nutritionally induced medical issues from your body "giving up". I'd love to say this is just my opinion, and it is an opinion of mine, but you can consult many many doctors who specialize in these diseases and medical issues that will tell you that diets of these types of foods directly affect your body's ability to function properly.

Anyway, I don't eat "clean" as I'd like, but I am working my way to it, each day and week I get better and better at it, and I wish more people would.

Side note and food for thought: the federal government recently approved ketchup as an acceptable vegetable for our school children's lunches. Processed tomatoes, sugars and preservatives all squirt into a bottle is not a "vegetable"... what is the world coming to, geez.

Uhh, no. For one thing, McDonald's and Burger King have both been around since the 50s. Hell, the "fast food" restaurant concept dates back to the Ancient Romans. There's also plenty of science out there that directly debunks all of what you are babbling about. Those diseases aren't caused by foods. They are caused by obesity. Obesity isn't a new problem, either. Henry VIII was injured as a boy so he was far less active than other kings of his era. He was morbidly obese, and much fatter than his contemporaries because he wasn't active, which caused his death. President Taft had all sorts of health problems due to his obesity while he was President. He lost 80 pounds after his presidency and majorly improved his health.

Notice the theme? These problems, regardless of what the fear mongerers say, are not some new thing we've never experienced. Being obese causes health problems. Losing weight fixes those problems.

For more modern examples, look at "the Twinkie diet" or the documentary "Fat Head."

I'm convinced its the processed sugar. There is a strong correlation between the mass introduction of heavy processed sugar into the diet...and the rise of obesity and related diseases. The fat isn't really the problem. The cholesterol isn't either. Gotta be the sugar.

Don't forget the people who pried our mouths open and forced the sugar down our gullets. Those *kitten*!!

FlaxMilk

for sure?

any scientific journal that is peer reviewed to back this up?

Milk, Flax. "I Told You So." You Are Challenging a Sarcastic Answer. April 2014.

Sabine_Stroehm

Healthy eating IS bashed on here. There is no doubt of that. As to why? I'm not sure.
I know when some folks here try to explain *why* someone (like me) aims to eat healthy, the reasons they come up with are absurd. I'll assume my reasons for their behaviors would be equally absurd.

But yes, healthy eating is openly mocked and bashed on here. Moderation (whatever folks mean by that) is the motto of mfp. No one defines it, but it's shouted from the roof tops. If you say "just eat healthy", you'll be hen pecked by folks demanding you define and defend that proclamation.

Fortunately, there are many GROUPS here where posters discuss the best ways to eat a nutritious diet and lose or maintain their weight.

Because you have to define healthy, and it's difficult.

If I have 3 slices of cheese pizza, is that healthy or not? You have no idea because you have to look at my overall diet and health. Same goes with all food. If I say I ate plain baked chicken breast and broccoli, is that healthy? In a vacuum, but not if I left out that I followed that with an ice cream and cookie binge.

Healthy and unhealthy, like clean and dirty, are almost impossible to define. The only thing people need to do is get their micro and macro nutrients. If that is achieved, they are healthy. The sources for those are irrelevant.

So it's bashed? That's a bit like cutting off your nose to spite your face.
It's the daily argument: there's no objective definition therefore we mock, we bash, we berate.
But not for "moderation". That one is just fine. lol. and IIFYM, of course (we don't know what your macros are, or what you eat, but IIFYM you're awesome).
Someone wants pizza, and they are struggling. Why is it bad when someone else suggests they make the pizza, and make it more nutritious. Or choose a more nutritious pizza restaurant. But not bad when 20 people say: eat the pizza and then work out?
This is a bizarre joint sometimes.

I think the bashing is to educate people that are new to this site that think they can only eat chicken breast and broccoli to lose weight. The idea is you really can eat almost everything with some moderation and reasonableness, and still lose weight and be healthy. It's more about education. For those of us that have been here a while, it gets tiresome, but I think it is necessary so that people avoid the "diet trap".

It's beyond tiresome. It's ridiculous. And, no, I don't think it's "educational".

chloematilds

for sure?

any scientific journal that is peer reviewed to back this up?

Milk, Flax. "I Told You So." You Are Challenging a Sarcastic Answer. April 2014.

it was actually meant as a rhetorical question. it actually made.me.chuckle that it.was answered which validates that what people think is."healthy" is.due to personak bias than something that is science-based

LoupGarouTFTs

casr in point, who eats "healthier"? PETA vegans or religious Paleos?.

Religious paleo for sure. PETA includes a list of "accidentally vegan" foods that in another time may have even been called "junk food."

for sure?

any scientific journal that is peer reviewed to back this up?

There are a lot of obese vegans out there, seriously. Nathan Winograd springs to mind, but there are many others simply because they have so many foods that are high in carbs that make up their diet. In addition, those that are not fat are often orthorexic. Vegans often (but not always) have an unhealthy relationship with their food because they attach their personal and moral value to the food that they eat. Then there is the whole B12 argument . . . I would have to say that paleo eaters are probably marginally healthier, at least in terms of their relationship with food.

rockmama72

I think I eat healthy--tons of vegetables, which I like, mostly homemade food, nothing much that's highly processed, and I participate in this forum quite a bit... But I've never once been bashed. I think it might be because I try to mind my own beeswax. It's a public forum on a general weight loss site, so I expect a huge range of ideas about this topic. The ones who get the most "bashing" are those who are smug. Smugness sucks.

You'll see posts where people ask, "I want to eat clean and cut out all the crap, what should I do?" Those threads go south way faster than someone who asks, "What's your favorite healthy meal" or something equally non-judgy-sounding.

Anecdote: I did get totally bashed on the Weight Watchers site once because I said something about my hot cocoa having 30% calcium so I counted it as a milk serving. The lesson I took from that is that the Internet is made up of people, and not all people are awesome.