Carbs and sugar?
Replies
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One thing I'm not going to do today is run around in circles with you using word selection to run around arguments. You are a pro at that. Your arguments are constantly filled with extreme examples to start debate to try and get a point across when you could very easily provide actual evidence to justify your beliefs, but you don't, you just ddebate on and on.
He does not believe that. He believes that somehow our bodies will not use those 1000 calories simply because they are sugar and somehow glycogen stores in the muscles and liver are at max. Somehow even though the diet is high carb the body will run on ketones.
Glycogen is irrelevant. If you eat 1000 calories, the body will burn those for energy before turning to fat stores to make up the remainder of your TDEE. The human body doesn't store fat in a deficit. It shows a complete lack of understanding of biology to think otherwise, quite honestly.
Actually in a deficit it IS impossible. The only way sugar (or anything else) would be stored as fat is during a calorie surplus. Otherwise the body uses every calorie you eat, out of necessity.
And how does fructose get converted into fat and stored when people are at a calorie deficit?I always go over on my alotted numbers for carbs and sugar but thats because I eat alot of fruit. Is it still bad to go over or since it's from fruit is it ok? Does the body digest "natural" surgar and carbs better or is ther no such thing as "natural" sugars and carbs?
Fortunately, there are zillions of reliable sources available at our fingertips today for one to learn how the body processes glucose and fructose (sugar), insulin resistance, etc. The liver is the only organ that can metabolize fructose in any significant amount. The same is not true for glucose which can be found in every cell.
Excess fructose is converted to fat and is extremely dangerous.
Joanne Moniz
The Skinny on Obesity Group
If only there was a website where people could track their food so they knew how many calories they were consuming....
In a normal balanced diet I am sure it is unlikely sugar would be converted to body fat on a deficit, however I do not think it is impossible for the process to happen!
Okay so you have full glycogen stores in your muscles and liver and you consume 1000 calories of sugar (no fat no protein) what happens to the sugar that has just hit the blood stream?
Also you are not burning it off with exercise!
I'm sorry, do you believe that on a high carb diet your body at some point will not be using ketones?
And no I do not believe that sugar will just sit in your blood stream for extended periods of time waiting to be used.
Some studies would be interesting if you have them?
I'm also not going to start posting studies to prove biology to you.
You...I like you.0 -
In, because I need something to keep me occupied today.0
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One thing I'm not going to do today is run around in circles with you using word selection to run around arguments. You are a pro at that. Your arguments are constantly filled with extreme examples to start debate to try and get a point across when you could very easily provide actual evidence to justify your beliefs, but you don't, you just ddebate on and on.
He does not believe that. He believes that somehow our bodies will not use those 1000 calories simply because they are sugar and somehow glycogen stores in the muscles and liver are at max. Somehow even though the diet is high carb the body will run on ketones.
Glycogen is irrelevant. If you eat 1000 calories, the body will burn those for energy before turning to fat stores to make up the remainder of your TDEE. The human body doesn't store fat in a deficit. It shows a complete lack of understanding of biology to think otherwise, quite honestly.
Actually in a deficit it IS impossible. The only way sugar (or anything else) would be stored as fat is during a calorie surplus. Otherwise the body uses every calorie you eat, out of necessity.
And how does fructose get converted into fat and stored when people are at a calorie deficit?I always go over on my alotted numbers for carbs and sugar but thats because I eat alot of fruit. Is it still bad to go over or since it's from fruit is it ok? Does the body digest "natural" surgar and carbs better or is ther no such thing as "natural" sugars and carbs?
Fortunately, there are zillions of reliable sources available at our fingertips today for one to learn how the body processes glucose and fructose (sugar), insulin resistance, etc. The liver is the only organ that can metabolize fructose in any significant amount. The same is not true for glucose which can be found in every cell.
Excess fructose is converted to fat and is extremely dangerous.
Joanne Moniz
The Skinny on Obesity Group
If only there was a website where people could track their food so they knew how many calories they were consuming....
In a normal balanced diet I am sure it is unlikely sugar would be converted to body fat on a deficit, however I do not think it is impossible for the process to happen!
Okay so you have full glycogen stores in your muscles and liver and you consume 1000 calories of sugar (no fat no protein) what happens to the sugar that has just hit the blood stream?
Also you are not burning it off with exercise!
I'm sorry, do you believe that on a high carb diet your body at some point will not be using ketones?
And no I do not believe that sugar will just sit in your blood stream for extended periods of time waiting to be used.
Some studies would be interesting if you have them?
I'm also not going to start posting studies to prove biology to you.
I'm only highlighting your words.
In regards to you teaching me biology - no thank you, I'm not sure how accurate it would be. Lol.
I only use extreme examples when confronted with words like impossible and essential.
I think when newbies are reading these posts that they are not exposed to such incorrect or misinformation.
If you don't want to debate or discuss things, don't jump in on the back ofmy post - you chose to respond I didn't ask you to make comment on something I put (you do have the option of the ignore button).
Enjoy your day.0 -
Lol I follow the IIFYM diet but the thing is that fruits like apples have more fructose than glucose which will go directly to the liver instead of muscle glycogen. The thing Im trying to say is even everything is converted into sugar at the end of the day I like to make sure that my muscle muscle glycogen are full rather than liver glycogen.0
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The sugar limit on mfp is hilariously low. Have an apple and some milk and you're done. I'm assuming you aren't sitting around eating cupcakes and bonbons, so I wouldn't worry too much about it.
-fruit eater0 -
So your idea to counter "misinformation" is to make up an example that completely ignores actual human biology, and flies in the face of how the human body actually functions? You're the one spreading misinformation here.
One thing I'm not going to do today is run around in circles with you using word selection to run around arguments. You are a pro at that. Your arguments are constantly filled with extreme examples to start debate to try and get a point across when you could very easily provide actual evidence to justify your beliefs, but you don't, you just ddebate on and on.
He does not believe that. He believes that somehow our bodies will not use those 1000 calories simply because they are sugar and somehow glycogen stores in the muscles and liver are at max. Somehow even though the diet is high carb the body will run on ketones.
Glycogen is irrelevant. If you eat 1000 calories, the body will burn those for energy before turning to fat stores to make up the remainder of your TDEE. The human body doesn't store fat in a deficit. It shows a complete lack of understanding of biology to think otherwise, quite honestly.
Actually in a deficit it IS impossible. The only way sugar (or anything else) would be stored as fat is during a calorie surplus. Otherwise the body uses every calorie you eat, out of necessity.
And how does fructose get converted into fat and stored when people are at a calorie deficit?I always go over on my alotted numbers for carbs and sugar but thats because I eat alot of fruit. Is it still bad to go over or since it's from fruit is it ok? Does the body digest "natural" surgar and carbs better or is ther no such thing as "natural" sugars and carbs?
Fortunately, there are zillions of reliable sources available at our fingertips today for one to learn how the body processes glucose and fructose (sugar), insulin resistance, etc. The liver is the only organ that can metabolize fructose in any significant amount. The same is not true for glucose which can be found in every cell.
Excess fructose is converted to fat and is extremely dangerous.
Joanne Moniz
The Skinny on Obesity Group
If only there was a website where people could track their food so they knew how many calories they were consuming....
In a normal balanced diet I am sure it is unlikely sugar would be converted to body fat on a deficit, however I do not think it is impossible for the process to happen!
Okay so you have full glycogen stores in your muscles and liver and you consume 1000 calories of sugar (no fat no protein) what happens to the sugar that has just hit the blood stream?
Also you are not burning it off with exercise!
I'm sorry, do you believe that on a high carb diet your body at some point will not be using ketones?
And no I do not believe that sugar will just sit in your blood stream for extended periods of time waiting to be used.
Some studies would be interesting if you have them?
I'm also not going to start posting studies to prove biology to you.
I'm only highlighting your words.
In regards to you teaching me biology - no thank you, I'm not sure how accurate it would be. Lol.
I only use extreme examples when confronted with words like impossible and essential.
I think when newbies are reading these posts that they are not exposed to such incorrect or misinformation.
If you don't want to debate or discuss things, don't jump in on the back ofmy post - you chose to respond I didn't ask you to make comment on something I put (you do have the option of the ignore button).
Enjoy your day.0 -
This content has been removed.
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Once the muscles are full glycogen gets stored in the liver. It's got nothing to do with fructose. The liver makes glycogen. The muscles don't.Lol I follow the IIFYM diet but the thing is that fruits like apples have more fructose than glucose which will go directly to the liver instead of muscle glycogen. The thing Im trying to say is even everything is converted into sugar at the end of the day I like to make sure that my muscle muscle glycogen are full rather than liver glycogen.0 -
Lol I follow the IIFYM diet but the thing is that fruits like apples have more fructose than glucose which will go directly to the liver instead of muscle glycogen. The thing Im trying to say is even everything is converted into sugar at the end of the day I like to make sure that my muscle muscle glycogen are full rather than liver glycogen.
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What are you talking about?I keep it at a minimum since fructose(sugars from fruits)does not go your your muscles it stays in the liver and it might effect my performance at the gym even though you can get sugar from the liver if the body needs it. I try to stay from any fruit expect banana which has less fructose then most fruits. Calories is VS calories out is what matters what the end of the day anyways.
Bananas.
B-A-N-A-N-A-S!0 -
In...
...with the expectation that this will finally be the thread where this question is fully resolved and everyone agrees with the answer.
ETA: Personally, I hit my protein minimum, then my fat minimum, and then the rest of my calories go wherever they want.
Now to catch up on this thread to learn how my body knows the difference between fructose/glucose/sucrose from a plant vs. plant-derived.0 -
And how does fructose get converted into fat and stored when people are at a calorie deficit?
If only there was a website where people could track their food so they knew how many calories they were consuming....
Missed your reply as I've been out cycling (fuelled almost entirely by sugar as it happens...) - and you completely missed my point.Exactly! Thank you for making that point... that is why it is less about quantity and more about quality
Joanne Moniz
The Skinny on Obesity Group
The correct answer is if you are at a deficit you will not be storing away extra fat.
Simon
No Wish to be Skinny But Happy to be Fit and Strong On a Balanced Diet Without Demonising Foods Group0 -
And how does fructose get converted into fat and stored when people are at a calorie deficit?
If only there was a website where people could track their food so they knew how many calories they were consuming....
Missed your reply as I've been out cycling (fuelled almost entirely by sugar as it happens...) - and you completely missed my point.Exactly! Thank you for making that point... that is why it is less about quantity and more about quality
Joanne Moniz
The Skinny on Obesity Group
The correct answer is if you are at a deficit you will not be storing away extra fat.
Simon
No Wish to be Skinny But Happy to be Fit and Strong On a Balanced Diet Without Demonizing Foods Group
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Going over your sugar is fine, no matter the source. However, fruits generally have more beneficial nutrients and fiber than, let's say, an Oreo.
Going over your carbs, which includes sugar, is a minor issue as you are sacrificing protein and fats, which in my opinion are higher on the priority list then carbs.
^This
I prioritize my protein and fat over carbs but I still go hilariously over my sugar allotment nearly every day from all sources. I just make sure I'm getting the fiber I need as well and don't sweat it. Unless you have a medical condition, track fiber in place of sugar in your diary, if you haven't.
^^^This... both of them.0 -
I always go over on my alotted numbers for carbs and sugar but thats because I eat alot of fruit. Is it still bad to go over or since it's from fruit is it ok? Does the body digest "natural" surgar and carbs better or is ther no such thing as "natural" sugars and carbs?
Going over on sugar will most definitely jeopardize your weight loss. Fructose (which is a component of sugar... glucose and fructose = sugar) is NOT processed the same as glucose in the body and an excess is converted to fat. It is becoming well understood that this is the cause of obesity.
Joanne Moniz
The Skinny on Obesity Group
Just plain wrong...0 -
I always go over on my alotted numbers for carbs and sugar but thats because I eat alot of fruit. Is it still bad to go over or since it's from fruit is it ok? Does the body digest "natural" surgar and carbs better or is ther no such thing as "natural" sugars and carbs?
Fortunately, there are zillions of reliable sources available at our fingertips today for one to learn how the body processes glucose and fructose (sugar), insulin resistance, etc. The liver is the only organ that can metabolize fructose in any significant amount. The same is not true for glucose which can be found in every cell.
Excess fructose is converted to fat and is extremely dangerous.
Joanne Moniz
The Skinny on Obesity Group
Your advice is going to hurt many people...0 -
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I'm sorry, all I see is PUPPY!
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I always go over on my alotted numbers for carbs and sugar but thats because I eat alot of fruit. Is it still bad to go over or since it's from fruit is it ok? Does the body digest "natural" surgar and carbs better or is ther no such thing as "natural" sugars and carbs?
This an interesting editorial from Harvard Health... might help explain for you and everyone else how excess fructose is converted to fat.
Is fructose bad for you?
Patrick J. Skerrett, Executive Editor, Harvard Health
One of many controversies mixing up the field of nutrition is whether the use of high-fructose corn syrup in soft drinks and other foods is causing the paired epidemics of obesity and diabetes that are sweeping the United States and the world. I’ve ignored this debate because it never made sense to me—high-fructose corn syrup is virtually identical to the refined sugar it replaces. A presentation I heard yesterday warns that the real villain may be fructose—a form of sugar found in fruits, vegetables, and honey. It may not matter whether it’s in high-fructose corn syrup, refined sugar, or any other sweetener.
Sounding the alarm is Dr. Robert H. Lustig, a professor of pediatrics and an obesity specialist at the University of California, San Francisco. He is a key figure in a recent New York Times article called “Is Sugar Toxic?” Here’s some background and the gist of the presentation Lustig gave as part of a weekly seminar sponsored by Harvard School of Public Health’s Department of Nutrition. (You can watch Lustig’s entire talk or a view a similar version on YouTube.)
When fructose is joined to glucose, it makes sucrose. Sucrose is abundant in sugar cane, sugar beets, corn, and other plants. When extracted and refined, sucrose makes table sugar. In the 1800s and early 1900s, the average American took in about 15 grams of fructose (about half an ounce), mostly from eating fruits and vegetables. Today we average 55 grams per day (73 grams for adolescents). The increase in fructose intake is worrisome, says Lustig, because it suspiciously parallels increases in obesity, diabetes, and a new condition called nonalcoholic fatty liver disease that now affects up to one-third of Americans. (You can read more about nonalcoholic fatty liver disease in a Harvard Health Letter article.)
Virtually every cell in the body can use glucose for energy. In contrast, only liver cells break down fructose. What happens to fructose inside liver cells is complicated. One of the end products is triglyceride, a form of fat. Uric acid and free radicals are also formed.
None of this is good. Triglycerides can build up in liver cells and damage liver function. Triglycerides released into the bloodstream can contribute to the growth of fat-filled plaque inside artery walls. Free radicals (also called reactive oxygen species) can damage cell structures, enzymes, and even genes. Uric acid can turn off production of nitric oxide, a substance that helps protect artery walls from damage. Another effect of high fructose intake is insulin resistance, a precursor to diabetes.
In the 1970s and 1980s, the “fat is bad” mantra prompted a big shift in the American diet. People and food companies replaced fat, often healthy fat, with sugar, almost always refined sugar. But this sort of low-fat diet—one rich in refined sugar and thus in fructose—is really a high-fat diet when you look at what the liver does to fructose, said Dr. Lustig.
Experts still have a long way to go to connect the dots between fructose and nonalcoholic fatty liver disease, obesity, diabetes, heart disease, and cancer. Higher intakes of fructose are associated with these conditions, but clinical trials have yet to show that it causes them. There are plenty of reasons to avoid sugary drinks and foods with added sugar, like empty calories, weight gain, and blood sugar swings. Lustig offers another.
Every year I attend scores of talks on health and nutrition. Few prompt me to change what I do or what I eat. Lustig’s talk has me looking at the amount of sugar I take in, and thinking hard about sugar in my children’s diets.
reference: file:///Users/joannemoniz/Desktop/Is%20fructose%20bad%20for%20you%3F%20-%20Harvard%20Health%20Blog%20-%20Harvard%20Health%20Publications.webarchive
JOANNE MONIZ
THE SKINNY ON OBESITY GROUP0 -
Do you understand the meaning of the word "excess"?0
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Ok, now I'm in.0
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Do you understand the meaning of the word "excess"?
Apparently, that word is entirely optional...as in, if I increase the amount of fructose that comprises my 2700 calories (maintenance) or fewer, I will stop maintaining/slowly losing weight and will automatically/magically start gaining weight...
...except when sometimes the argument is shifted to my health will automatically/magically be impaired for entirely nebulous reasons...
...because science!0 -
Just more scaremongering on your part. Repeating the same bs that Lustig spews.
I'd be interested to see how knowledgeable you are if you would start addressing some of the actual science that has been discussed or defend your claims, without copying and posting the same nonsense over and over. The only people you acknowledge are the ones who buy into this sugar crusade you are on.
You are providing this board with no actual knowledge. Just copies of articles. A smart man Alan Aragon (who destroyed your Prince Lustig in a video you have yet to acknowledge), speak to someone long enough and you can tell if they actually know what they are talking about and understand it or are they simply repeating what they heard. I reckon you're the latter.
I'm imagining her literaly sitting like this in front of her screen.0 -
I always go over on my alotted numbers for carbs and sugar but thats because I eat alot of fruit. Is it still bad to go over or since it's from fruit is it ok? Does the body digest "natural" surgar and carbs better or is ther no such thing as "natural" sugars and carbs?
Another great piece from the medical community... 16 percent of fructose... we are getting SO much more than this!
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/07/health/research/fructose-consumption-increases-visceral-fat-study-reports.html?_r=0
Joanne Moniz
The Skinny On Obesity Group0 -
Experts still have a long way to go to connect the dots between fructose and nonalcoholic fatty liver disease, obesity, diabetes, heart disease, and cancer. Higher intakes of fructose are associated with these conditions, but clinical trials have yet to show that it causes them.
This means that so far this is only correlative, and that the article itself can quote no causative data at all. Correlation does not, and can not imply causation.0 -
Experts still have a long way to go to connect the dots between fructose and nonalcoholic fatty liver disease, obesity, diabetes, heart disease, and cancer. Higher intakes of fructose are associated with these conditions, but clinical trials have yet to show that it causes them.
This means that so far this is only correlative, and that the article itself can quote no causative data at all. Correlation does not, and can not imply causation.
Yeah, that whole article is full of maybe, might, and perhaps.0 -
I always go over on my alotted numbers for carbs and sugar but thats because I eat alot of fruit. Is it still bad to go over or since it's from fruit is it ok? Does the body digest "natural" surgar and carbs better or is ther no such thing as "natural" sugars and carbs?
Another great piece from the medical community... 16 percent of fructose... we are getting SO much more than this!
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/07/health/research/fructose-consumption-increases-visceral-fat-study-reports.html?_r=0
Joanne Moniz
The Skinny On Obesity Group
Joanne, I am asking you here publicly, will you allow me to join your group? If so, will I be allowed to post articles and studies that refute what you post here?0 -
I always go over on my alotted numbers for carbs and sugar but thats because I eat alot of fruit. Is it still bad to go over or since it's from fruit is it ok? Does the body digest "natural" surgar and carbs better or is ther no such thing as "natural" sugars and carbs?
Another great piece from the medical community... 16 percent of fructose... we are getting SO much more than this!
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/07/health/research/fructose-consumption-increases-visceral-fat-study-reports.html?_r=0
Joanne Moniz
The Skinny On Obesity Group
Joanne, I am asking you here publicly, will you allow me to join your group? If so, will I be allowed to post articles and studies that refute what you post here?
Probably not. Everyone that has done so gets kicked out pretty fast.0
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