Carbs and sugar?
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That's the nonsense I'm talking about with you. You like to try and talk down as if people are ignorant.
No I don't whine about the debating. I simply point out that you like to debate in extremes and often debate not so much to prove a point but more to just create a debate.
I guess I'm not allowed to give my opinion unless asked.Yes and no.
I made a reasonable statement on page one which Tigersworld choose to dispute. My statement wasn't about gaining weight or storing excess body fat on a deficit, it was simply that glucose can be converted to body fat in a deficit.
As tigersworld disputed that I assumed he thought that it really was impossible, albeit that the stored fat would be released at a later stage for fuel.
M27 did his usual jumping in on the back of a debate to try and prove me wrong and be generally condescending (which is cool), not sure he reads the previous posts before he does that though.
So are we in agreement that in a deficit glucose can be converted to body fat?
Please I welcome it!
My only issue is you chip in to the debate (which is great) and ten whine about the fact we are having a debate - when you are the one that chose to join in.
You either want a discussion or debate or don't!Nope - tigersworld (on page 2) claimed that glucose being converted into body fat on a deficit was impossible.
My understanding of biology is that is not the case. My understanding is that it will be stored as an immediate reaction to excessive sugar on the blood stream (when not being burnt and glycogen stores full or less storage available than glucose in the system)and then, as you have said - released later (albeit the body fat used at a later stage may not be from the glucose that has just been converted to fat).
Apparently these guys have a different thought process and I'm keen to understand what that is?
Perhaps because in that particular short time-frame immediately after 1000 calories of anything, the body is not in a deficit *at that moment*. However, if the body is in a net deficit for the entire day/other period of time, the end result is essentially the same. Any excess that was stored because of the short surplus will be utilized during the overall deficit period.
Perhaps. No relevant cites to support my beliefs here. But hopefully true, otherwise, the IF people would not only not experience any meaningful progress, but also would have markedly poorer body composition as compared to their more frequently eating brethren. Anecdotally, I simply don't believe the latter to be the case.
ETA: Oh. I see that this has been resolved now. (You'd think I would learn to read to the end of a thread before responding. Well, you'd think incorrectly if you did.)
Agree with that statement above^^^
So do agree that the body in a deficit will convert excessive glucose into body fat once it has filled the glycogen stores - and this fat is to be used as fuel at a later time?
I'm still not sure if that is your understanding or not.
Oh and it takes 2 to have a debate - if my debating offends that much, walk on by.
I have already stated above what my stance is. You are pushing the issue further just to try and get some sort of validation for your ego. Regardless, you can think what you want about my knowledge and I will believe what I do about yours. And we will constantly disagree. Walking away and allowing people to spout of things with no clear explanation because they enjoy talking in riddles just to play games does a disservice to the individuals who aren't comfortable chiming in on conversations and prefer to lurk and try and learn.
Also, you never said it was being stored as fat for fuel for later. You are just now adding that in to complete your position on the subject. Which you could have done all along but decided to just give an opinion half way leaving that out to allow the rest to get debated to set yourself up to prove a point. Your original statement was far from that. You were assuming the entire time what people thought.
You are funny!
Sorry, I just thought it was funny to see you go out of your way to agree, without actually agreeing with what I said (and I've got the ego?).
No you are right in my initial statement I never used the words 'fuel for later' (I assumed that was most peoples understanding) just as I never said it would be stored as excess fat.
My only point in this debate was that in a deficit the body can convert glucose into body fat.
Regardless I think we have concluded that it is not impossible, so let's move.0 -
Why wouldn't you apply it to a 24 hour day? How would fat burning be zero, when fat burning is a constant, 24/7 process?
If one has a valid theory it will handle any given time period. It is not true that " fat burning is a constant, 24/7 process " - if in the case under discussion one ingests 1,000 cals of sugar then insulin rockets and fat oxidation and release will be greatly reduced while the glucose is cleared from the blood stream. Fat oxidation rate in healthy people responds to carbohydrate availability as well as the work rate of the body.
Below is the insulin & glucose response to a large carbohydrate ingestion, the numbers are at http://www.hindawi.com/journals/crim/2013/273957/tab1/ where you can see the FFA levels collapse after carb ingestion indicating a lack of fat burning.
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In a caloric deficit fat will be oxidized daily at a certain rate in an individual. How does that now affect the amount of fat gained in your example? How does someone's fat burn drop to zero in a hypocaloric state?
The oxidation rate is variable, not a constant. Fat release drops dramatically during carbohydrate ingestion (round dots are plasma FFA after OGTT) :-
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I just started with Pro Nutra Fit 15 (protein powder)
It contains 1 gram of sugar, also Milk and Soy, as well as some artificial flavors.
Does that mean there is "Added" sugar? or is this a natural Sugar?0 -
I mean the charts are nice and all but luckily we don't diet for 4 hours and call it quits.
No one is claiming fat loss is constant every minute of the day or that fat is oxidized at the same rate all day. But again, it doesn't matter what happens in the little window you are selecting. You need to look at the overall picture. So yes, you must look at the time frame of 24 hours, 1 week, 1 month etc.
^^^This...0 -
I just started with Pro Nutra Fit 15 (protein powder)
It contains 1 gram of sugar, also Milk and Soy, as well as some artificial flavors.
Does that mean there is "Added" sugar? or is this a natural Sugar?
Sure. Why not?0 -
Why wouldn't you apply it to a 24 hour day? How would fat burning be zero, when fat burning is a constant, 24/7 process?
If one has a valid theory it will handle any given time period. It is not true that " fat burning is a constant, 24/7 process " - if in the case under discussion one ingests 1,000 cals of sugar then insulin rockets and fat oxidation and release will be greatly reduced while the glucose is cleared from the blood stream. Fat oxidation rate in healthy people responds to carbohydrate availability as well as the work rate of the body.
Below is the insulin & glucose response to a large carbohydrate ingestion, the numbers are at http://www.hindawi.com/journals/crim/2013/273957/tab1/ where you can see the FFA levels collapse after carb ingestion indicating a lack of fat burning.
What is the point?0 -
In a caloric deficit fat will be oxidized daily at a certain rate in an individual. How does that now affect the amount of fat gained in your example? How does someone's fat burn drop to zero in a hypocaloric state?
The oxidation rate is variable, not a constant. Fat release drops dramatically during carbohydrate ingestion (round dots are plasma FFA after OGTT) :-
Again what is the point?0 -
ohhh.. charts... my day is complete now..
*searching for popcorn*0 -
In a caloric deficit fat will be oxidized daily at a certain rate in an individual. How does that now affect the amount of fat gained in your example? How does someone's fat burn drop to zero in a hypocaloric state?
The oxidation rate is variable, not a constant. Fat release drops dramatically during carbohydrate ingestion (round dots are plasma FFA after OGTT) :-
Go on.
And then what happens?0 -
In a caloric deficit fat will be oxidized daily at a certain rate in an individual. How does that now affect the amount of fat gained in your example? How does someone's fat burn drop to zero in a hypocaloric state?
The oxidation rate is variable, not a constant. Fat release drops dramatically during carbohydrate ingestion (round dots are plasma FFA after OGTT) :-
Go on.
And then what happens?
Clearly we die...0 -
Nobody said the RATE was constant. I said the PROCESS was constant. And as your chart even shows, the rate of fat oxidation never reaches zero.In a caloric deficit fat will be oxidized daily at a certain rate in an individual. How does that now affect the amount of fat gained in your example? How does someone's fat burn drop to zero in a hypocaloric state?
The oxidation rate is variable, not a constant. Fat release drops dramatically during carbohydrate ingestion (round dots are plasma FFA after OGTT) :-
Arguing semantics is weak.0 -
Rachael,
Those almond/coconut balls sound good. Can you forward the recipe? Do you have any variations without coconut in them?0 -
Actually, none of the vitamins, minerals, or water are in the sugar in the fruit.Sugar from fruit is amazing!!! packet with vitamins, minerals, water, energy... as long as is from fruit is 100% ok, I always go over because i eat a lot of fruit
Im talking about the vitamins, minerals and water IN FRUIT. None of this you can get in a pill that will be as perfectly adjusted for the body as in fruit. This ton of **** about fruit being bad is... well i just said, bull****.0 -
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I always go over on my alotted numbers for carbs and sugar but thats because I eat alot of fruit. Is it still bad to go over or since it's from fruit is it ok? Does the body digest "natural" surgar and carbs better or is ther no such thing as "natural" sugars and carbs?
Fortunately, there are zillions of reliable sources available at our fingertips today for one to learn how the body processes glucose and fructose (sugar), insulin resistance, etc. The liver is the only organ that can metabolize fructose in any significant amount. The same is not true for glucose which can be found in every cell.
Excess fructose is converted to fat and is extremely dangerous.
Joanne Moniz
The Skinny on Obesity Group
Wow..... So you just said fructose is "extremely dangerous"? Aren't there moderators on this forum to keep people from spreading this crap? :indifferent:
Fructose is not dangerous people. FYI, in case it needs to be said again, the type of sugar that is in fruit: FRUCTOSE. Yeah, you know, that natural, delicious, nutritious stuff hanging from trees and vines? Yes, fruit. The sugar in fruit is FRUCTOSE.
OK? Got it? Please don't listen to this stuff, folks. Sugar, carbs, fat, meat, bread, candy bars, cupcakes, double cheese burgers...... None of these foods make you fat. Eating too much food makes us fat. Calories in, calories burned. Depending on your current health, medical conditions, addictions etc., you are free to eat just about anything you like; in moderation, exercising self control mad common sense. Oh, and it doesn't hurt to get moving either. Get active, do what you enjoy, and eat what you like! :drinker:
Whew...0 -
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Which vitamins and minerals would those be exactly?
Actually, none of the vitamins, minerals, or water are in the sugar in the fruit.Sugar from fruit is amazing!!! packet with vitamins, minerals, water, energy... as long as is from fruit is 100% ok, I always go over because i eat a lot of fruit
Im talking about the vitamins, minerals and water IN FRUIT. None of this you can get in a pill that will be as perfectly adjusted for the body as in fruit. This ton of **** about fruit being bad is... well i just said, bull****.
Water, couldn't you just drink.........water?
Ok wait, are you serious? Fruit, in general, is the richest source of vitamins, that are bio available, for us, like vitamin C, one of the most important vitamin as we do not generate in our body.
So, my whole point is: Eat fruit, at least 4-5 servings a day, and the number of pills you take will decrease a lot.0 -
Rachael,
Those almond/coconut balls sound good. Can you forward the recipe? Do you have any variations without coconut in them?
nvm0 -
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Your statement said none of those you can get from a pill that will be perfectly adjusted for your body like from fruit. Now your saying eat more fruit and you will need less vitamins. Those are 2 totally different statements.
Which vitamins and minerals would those be exactly?
Actually, none of the vitamins, minerals, or water are in the sugar in the fruit.Sugar from fruit is amazing!!! packet with vitamins, minerals, water, energy... as long as is from fruit is 100% ok, I always go over because i eat a lot of fruit
Im talking about the vitamins, minerals and water IN FRUIT. None of this you can get in a pill that will be as perfectly adjusted for the body as in fruit. This ton of **** about fruit being bad is... well i just said, bull****.
Water, couldn't you just drink.........water?
Ok wait, are you serious? Fruit, in general, is the richest source of vitamins, that are bio available, for us, like vitamin C, one of the most important vitamin as we do not generate in our body.
So, my whole point is: Eat fruit, at least 4-5 servings a day, and the number of pills you take will decrease a lot.
Oh my bad, I meant PILLS won't do the work that fruit does for you. I am not a native English speaker so I may get confused haha0 -
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:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:That evil sugar...when will we learn.
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I agree! I used to deprive myself to 1200 calories a day and cut out all the bad stuff and I would end up giving up and gaining the weight back. I'm doing it completely different this time. 1590 calories and I have ice cream when I want, no every day, but I do not deprive myself. Doing a lot better this time. The only group I am against is artificial sweeteners. Food is not the enemy, just how much we eat of it is and if we are sedentary. Great post!0
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Check the ingredients... Maltodextrin????
There is a BIG difference between the synthetic and the natural occurring... I would do some research if I were you before I consumed the product
Joanne Moniz
The Skinny on Obesity Group0 -
Check the ingredients... Maltodextrin????
There is a BIG difference between the synthetic and the natural occurring... I would do some research if I were you before I consumed the product
Joanne Moniz
The Skinny on Obesity Group
I'd love to learn more about the chemical differences in maltodextrin depending on source.0 -
And I'm over here like "I just like ice cream and cake "0
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