Working smarter not harder?
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that's what OP wanted. he likes to post topics and watch people argue. he's like that Star Trek monster that feeds on confusion and anger.I see. Well in that case this thread is a rousing success.
This topic is SO much better than "Help! I gain muscle at an astronomical pace...I'm a 30 year old female. I don't like muscles!"0 -
BS. I do it to increase post count. :laugh:that's what OP wanted. he likes to post topics and watch people argue. he's like that Star Trek monster that feeds on confusion and anger.
Check out my latest thread.
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1287377-i-m-not-against-plastic-surgery-but
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
double post.0
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Maybe she really enjoys Zumba and spin classes? Maybe she takes the class because it's fun not to lose weight? Idk. I'm
A runner. I'm 5'8" 130 pounds, and I'll be the first to admit, I wish my body looked a little different, but I'm not willing to drastically decrease my running or change my diet. I frequently like to complain to people that I wish I had a 6 pack.. Do I know how to get those results? Yes. Am I willing to make the changes? No.
Lol kinda like the whole "train smarter not harder". I get a lot of enjoyment out of spur of the moment marathons or doing back to back workouts. Do I know it's ineffective? Yes. But I do it because it's fun to
Push the limits or maybe I'm just a crazy person who can't follow a plan!
who knows :P
She can like those things all she wants but it's not going to get her the body she wants at this point in her life. I'm glad she's active - that's wonderful and better than the alternative. But IMO, complaining about things you are not working on/willing to change is a waste of energy and breath.
And totally agree with JoRocka, you could get abs easier than most people (according to your weight/height). Give lifting a try! You could reach your aesthetic goal.0 -
Maybe she really enjoys Zumba and spin classes? Maybe she takes the class because it's fun not to lose weight? Idk. I'm
A runner. I'm 5'8" 130 pounds, and I'll be the first to admit, I wish my body looked a little different, but I'm not willing to drastically decrease my running or change my diet. I frequently like to complain to people that I wish I had a 6 pack.. Do I know how to get those results? Yes. Am I willing to make the changes? No.
Lol kinda like the whole "train smarter not harder". I get a lot of enjoyment out of spur of the moment marathons or doing back to back workouts. Do I know it's ineffective? Yes. But I do it because it's fun to
Push the limits or maybe I'm just a crazy person who can't follow a plan! who knows :P
She can like those things all she wants but it's not going to get her the body she wants at this point in her life. I'm glad she's active - that's wonderful and better than the alternative. But IMO, complaining about things you are not working on/willing to change is a waste of energy and breath.
And totally agree with JoRocka, you could get abs easier than most people (according to your weight/height). Give lifting a try! You could reach your aesthetic goal.
Hell, at 5'8" and 130, she doesn't even NEED lifting... toss in some planks and bodyweight ab work and she will be fine. Yes, if you lift, you probably don't need to do crunches or ab work... but if she doesn't want to lift, then adding in some crunches and leg lifts will help add pop to her abs.
My abs came as a result of me boxing and the training with that involves planks, situps, russian twists, leg lifts... all body weight activity (or some with the added weight of a medicine ball). I only recently added lifting into my routine.0 -
isn't the whole point of specialized lifting programs (for example) to "work smarter" and "not harder"? to maximize the benefits for a given amount of time/effort.
this applies to any physical or athletic endeavor. training for a race, practicing for sports, lifting for mass vs. strength (depending on your goals), etc. if you're serious about your training, you're always working smarter, not harder.
i couldn't disagree more. whenever i see someone on a specialized program, they are working harder. MUCH harder. doesn't matter if they are gearing up to set a PR in a 10k or if they are doing Smolovs for squats, they are working hard hard hard. even athletes in a similar field of say, track and field will have specialized programs that make a high jumper's program different from a shot putter's program, but i guarantee you that both are working hard as hell.
it's really just a semantics issue. because they have a specific goal, they'll go hard in one area but slack in a less important area. that's being smart. but to imply that improving isn't about working harder is just plain false.
Going balls to the wall does little if the effort isn't applied in an intelligent fashion.
Why would you assume that I, or anyone else, is recommending working harder in something besides an intelligent fashion? In what world does this black or white dichotomy exist?
Your logical bipolarism shows in the bold above. The hardest path to a goal is not always the most effective way to get there. We see the stories here all the time ... the newbie runner going all out on C25K (working hard) rather than trusting the plan and working smarter and reaching their goals ... the newbie lifter going for a max lift every set rather than thinking it out first.
Working smart allows the one to reach a goal in the least time using the most effective use of activities. Working hard is trying to bull through things thinking energy expended somehow equals progress towards a goal.
Your working hard definition sounds an awful lot like 'Being stupid' to me. Is Working Hard code for Being Stupid? Because that would explain why this topic is so confusing
Maybe the next time a newbie starts a C25K thread ("I can't seem to get past week X"), then you can be the one to chime in and call them stupid. It'll be a riot.0 -
BS. I do it to increase post count. :laugh:that's what OP wanted. he likes to post topics and watch people argue. he's like that Star Trek monster that feeds on confusion and anger.
Check out my latest thread.
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1287377-i-m-not-against-plastic-surgery-but
lunchtime already?
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Day_of_the_Dove_(episode)0 -
Hell, at 5'8" and 130, she doesn't even NEED lifting... toss in some planks and bodyweight ab work and she will be fine. Yes, if you lift, you probably don't need to do crunches or ab work... but if she doesn't want to lift, then adding in some crunches and leg lifts will help add pop to her abs.
My abs came as a result of me boxing and the training with that involves planks, situps, russian twists, leg lifts... all body weight activity (or some with the added weight of a medicine ball). I only recently added lifting into my routine.
yeah- she's right there- ANYTHING that's challenging for her core should make them pop right on out.
I should have said strength training- which doesn't necessarily mean lifting.0 -
a "working smarter vs. harder" example.
let's say you have to breakup your concrete driveway and get it ready to have a new one poured the next morning.
"working smarter" is renting a jackhammer.
"working harder" is trying to save the jackhammer rental fee and doing all of the work by hand with a pickaxe.
both will get the job done, and both are tiring and hard labor that involve lots of loading and unloading of wheelbarrows of concrete rubble, but with the jackhammer you can finish before dusk and have time to relax and enjoy a nice cold beverage. with a pickaxe, you'll be lucky to finish by dusk.
that example is how i understand the distinction and how i assumed others did too. the saying applies to all manner of activities, whether fitness-related or not.0 -
And why are so many people equating working harder with working longer?
If your goal is to work harder on endurance and duration, then it is equal. But people also confuse working heavy as working harder, which doesn't always translate to efficiency, nor meeting certain goals.0 -
I guess another point I can make with this is the lack of continued effort which in turn translates into not working smarter. I know a lot of people that lose 40, 50, 60 pounds and then... They plateau! They start to get discouraged and frustrated as anyone would. Until we start talking about their training routines. Eventually you will hit a plateau and set your body into maintenance mode unless you increase your intensity and/or frequency. Now this can mean a lot of things which I'm sure I don't have to get detailed about here, but you can't expect to continue losing the same amount of weight p/wk p/month when you are 160lbs as you were when you were 210lbs doing the same exact routine. Effort has to increase, intensity has to increase, you need to work smarter and harder to continue improving. So I guess the real answer here your frame of mind and what works for you should be whats important harder, smarter... it's all up to you!0
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a "working smarter vs. harder" example.
let's say you have to breakup your concrete driveway and get it ready to have a new one poured the next morning.
"working smarter" is renting a jackhammer.
"working harder" is trying to save the jackhammer rental fee and doing all of the work by hand with a pickaxe.
both will get the job done, and both are tiring and hard labor that involve lots of loading and unloading of wheelbarrows of concrete rubble, but with the jackhammer you can finish before dusk and have time to relax and enjoy a nice cold beverage. with a pickaxe, you'll be lucky to finish by dusk.
that example is how i understand the distinction and how i assumed others did too. the saying applies to all manner of activities, whether fitness-related or not.
All things being equal, which one will have made the greater impact on his/her physique the most if they did projects like this on a regular basis?0 -
a "working smarter vs. harder" example.
let's say you have to breakup your concrete driveway and get it ready to have a new one poured the next morning.
"working smarter" is renting a jackhammer.
"working harder" is trying to save the jackhammer rental fee and doing all of the work by hand with a pickaxe.
both will get the job done, and both are tiring and hard labor that involve lots of loading and unloading of wheelbarrows of concrete rubble, but with the jackhammer you can finish before dusk and have time to relax and enjoy a nice cold beverage. with a pickaxe, you'll be lucky to finish by dusk.
that example is how i understand the distinction and how i assumed others did too. the saying applies to all manner of activities, whether fitness-related or not.
All things being equal, which one will have made the greater impact on his/her physique the most if they did projects like this on a regular basis?
I like the example... and like DavPul's question too...
It all depends on your end goal and your priorities...
for me... I may use the pickaxe because I cannot afford to rent a jackhammer, so even if it is harder work for me... if I have the time, I may choose the pickaxe also because of the increased strength gains from busting my butt.
kind of like me shoveling snow...
I could save a lot of time and effort if I bought a snowblower... (time and effort smarter)
The financial impact of the purchase would be tough for me to manage right now (maybe not financially smart),
If I use a snowblower instead of a shovel, I won't get the same kickass workout.
(working harder, but physically smart) 0 -
I guess maybe I have a skewed vision of this, but when it comes to excersize in general I really don't feel this applies. How can one improve if you don't continue to work harder. How do you get stronger? How do you beat a plateau? The idea is not to run the most efficient mile, but to run the fastest and to some people that may not be pretty or efficient... LOL! I do believe in correct form and doing the correct work for your ultimate goal, so I guess in a way that can be considered working smarter not harder. Hard work has provided me with nothing, but results... period!
This is a strawman. How do you run a faster mile? By training 100 m sprints exclusively? No, that'd be stupid (the opposite of training smarter). Also, by not training when exhausted when you can't produce a quality workout - there's no point in running 400 m (a lap, 1/4 mile) in 1:35 if you want to beat a four minute mile - and you normally do it in 1:02. It's stupid and counterproductive to continue.
I have had advice from a national level cycling coach. His take on some strenuous, "to failure" intervals: "when you can't hold x intensity for the 3 minutes, you're done. Head home, eat, shower. There's no more. You're not stressing your system enough to improve and just impairing your next workout".
Improvements, especially when you are close to your physiological ceiling, come from hard and smart work. Also applies to resistance training: for some regimes, you let some time (days) elapse between doing say bench presses. That's so that the body can recover and get stronger.
People forget that training doesn't make you stronger. It makes you weaker by fatigue or strain. ADAPTATION to training makes you stronger because your body builds up those areas in response to stress. Which is why nobody breaks a 100 m dash world record by running the trials 3 in an hour.
And yeah, part of working "smarter" is understanding you need to work harder. I have a fitness test every 4-6 weeks to determine the appropriate ranges for my intervals. Proper training is S-M-A-R-T (Specifc, Measurable, Achievable, Relevant, and Time-Constrained).0 -
kind of like me shoveling snow...
I could save a lot of time and effort if I bought a snowblower... (time and effort smarter)
The financial impact of the purchase would be tough for me to manage right now (maybe not financially smart),
If I use a snowblower instead of a shovel, I won't get the same kickass workout. (working harder, but physically smart)
I think working smarter is this step- not the actual snow blower vs shovel step.
working smarter means asking the following questions and working out how you want to get to where you want to go.
> what's my goal
> what are my paths to get there (there are usually a few)
> what's my time line
> what can I afford- physical, financially, time wise, emotionally
> what fits my life style
> what makes me happy
> how much am I willing to invest in to it.0 -
a "working smarter vs. harder" example.
let's say you have to breakup your concrete driveway and get it ready to have a new one poured the next morning.
"working smarter" is renting a jackhammer.
"working harder" is trying to save the jackhammer rental fee and doing all of the work by hand with a pickaxe.
both will get the job done, and both are tiring and hard labor that involve lots of loading and unloading of wheelbarrows of concrete rubble, but with the jackhammer you can finish before dusk and have time to relax and enjoy a nice cold beverage. with a pickaxe, you'll be lucky to finish by dusk.
that example is how i understand the distinction and how i assumed others did too. the saying applies to all manner of activities, whether fitness-related or not.
All things being equal, which one will have made the greater impact on his/her physique the most if they did projects like this on a regular basis?
I like the example... and like DavPul's question too...
It all depends on your end goal and your priorities...
for me... I may use the pickaxe because I cannot afford to rent a jackhammer, so even if it is harder work for me... if I have the time, I may choose the pickaxe also because of the increased strength gains from busting my butt.
kind of like me shoveling snow...
I could save a lot of time and effort if I bought a snowblower... (time and effort smarter)
The financial impact of the purchase would be tough for me to manage right now (maybe not financially smart),
If I use a snowblower instead of a shovel, I won't get the same kickass workout. (working harder, but physically smart)
you can buy a snowblower cheap this time of year as department stores try to unload inventory. 0 -
kind of like me shoveling snow...
I could save a lot of time and effort if I bought a snowblower... (time and effort smarter)
The financial impact of the purchase would be tough for me to manage right now (maybe not financially smart),
If I use a snowblower instead of a shovel, I won't get the same kickass workout. (working harder, but physically smart)
I think working smarter is this step- not the actual snow blower vs shovel step.
working smarter means asking the following questions and working out how you want to get to where you want to go.
> what's my goal
> what are my paths to get there (there are usually a few)
> what's my time line
> what can I afford- physical, financially, time wise, emotionally
> what fits my life style
> what makes me happy
> how much am I willing to invest in to it.
I'm sorry, but you failed because you provided a logical and balanced answer. We're not about that here. Allow me to break it down for you:
smarter = whatever I label as smarter
dumber = whatever insane make-believe scenario I dream up and then claim that some foolish person will think that they are training harder.
harder =/= following the accepted standards and practices that you've researched and found works for other people with similar goals and experience.0 -
I guess maybe I have a skewed vision of this, but when it comes to excersize in general I really don't feel this applies. How can one improve if you don't continue to work harder. How do you get stronger? How do you beat a plateau? The idea is not to run the most efficient mile, but to run the fastest and to some people that may not be pretty or efficient... LOL! I do believe in correct form and doing the correct work for your ultimate goal, so I guess in a way that can be considered working smarter not harder. Hard work has provided me with nothing, but results... period!
This is a strawman. How do you run a faster mile? By training 100 m sprints exclusively? No, that'd be stupid (the opposite of training smarter). Also, by not training when exhausted when you can't produce a quality workout - there's no point in running 400 m (a lap, 1/4 mile) in 1:35 if you want to beat a four minute mile - and you normally do it in 1:02. It's stupid and counterproductive to continue.
I have had advice from a national level cycling coach. His take on some strenuous, "to failure" intervals: "when you can't hold x intensity for the 3 minutes, you're done. Head home, eat, shower. There's no more. You're not stressing your system enough to improve and just impairing your next workout".
Improvements, especially when you are close to your physiological ceiling, come from hard and smart work. Also applies to resistance training: for some regimes, you let some time (days) elapse between doing say bench presses. That's so that the body can recover and get stronger.
People forget that training doesn't make you stronger. It makes you weaker by fatigue or strain. ADAPTATION to training makes you stronger because your body builds up those areas in response to stress. Which is why nobody breaks a 100 m dash world record by running the trials 3 in an hour.
And yeah, part of working "smarter" is understanding you need to work harder. I have a fitness test every 4-6 weeks to determine the appropriate ranges for my intervals. Proper training is S-M-A-R-T (Specifc, Measurable, Achievable, Relevant, and Time-Constrained).
I agree with this and I'm not an expert otherwise I wouldn't have been 33 years old and 350+ lbs, but I do know what works for me. What keeps me going and motivated is working hard. Yes I'm probably the atypical gym nut most of you would love to hate. I go to the gym 5-6 days a week for 2-3 hours depending on what I'm training that day. I rep out until I can barely lift another rep. Sometimes I do two a days where I will run a 5k in the morning and then do a complete lifing routine in the evening. Yes I probably over due it sometimes, but you know what it WORKS for me. I've lost 79 lbs, dropped 23" off my waist, and I've improved every strength excersize by as much as 100-150% from where I started. I'm eager, driven, and a hard working person. I know I'm probably counter productive in certain things I do, but it works for me!0 -
Excess volume=diminishing returns=unnecessary neural adaption=more work needed to progress in future.
Thats my take on it. More work now may equal faster results, but, down the road it may mean ever more work to continue to progress. Perhaps it'll all balance out, but, I think lifting excessively will just require you to do even more to make the same progress you could have made lifting many tons less volume in the long run.
The more you can do, the more it takes for you to overload. So why would you want to be able to do more without seeing the hypertrophy and strength gains. Surely it makes sense for muscular enduarnce for athletes and what not, but for someone only concerned with hypertrophy, 1RMs, and aesthetics I;d say you could probably do less and get more.0 -
Excess volume=diminishing returns=unnecessary neural adaption=more work needed to progress in future.
Thats my take on it. More work now may equal faster results, but, down the road it may mean ever more work to continue to progress. Perhaps it'll all balance out, but, I think lifting excessively will just require you to do even more to make the same progress you could have made lifting hundreds on tons less volume in the long run.
The more you can do, the more it takes for you to overload. So why would you want to be able to do more without seeing the hypertrophy and strength gains. Surely it makes sense for muscular enduarnce for athletes and what not, but for someone only concerned with hypertrophy, 1RMs, and aesthetics I;d say you could probably do less and get more.
Thats just it... I'm not only concerned with aesthetics... If I was I'd be lifting light weight and doing a ton more cardio. I couldn't tell you what my 1RM is in any lift I do. My goal is a musclular physique, enhanced athletisism, and strength. I'm currently training for a Spartan 12 Hour Hurricane Heat in October hoping to qualify for a 48 hour Death Race thereafter.0
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